Learn to make videogame content FREE with videos!!!!

[Polaris30]

http://sv2.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/uunr_vtmlist.php?c=13

the above link is to a site called BUZZ 3D…

you need unreal tournament 2003 or 2004… old unreal works also, but only with the BSP and some lighting stuff…

This is By far the best way to learn how to make a videogame… you will be playing around in your first level in a few hours of learning…then later you can sit down and make a master plan! and perhaps be able to upload your map to your favorite server for play with your friends

THere is a Product out there called 3D Game studio… DO NOT BUY THIS PRODUCT!!! they mislead people, and the game engine is only half baked… they claim you can click together a game, but in all reality you will have to write bits and pieces to a game engine to actualy make it work correctly…lame things like the guns hitting the center of crosshair.

There is also another product called GAMESPACE… thease guys work along side conitec ripping people off… they have LOTS of claims of getting things into video games… but when it all comes down to it, you are just useing milkshape to do most of the porting. the Gamespace/truespace modeler, and animator, realy hard to use, plus most of the features dont port into videogames…the Map importer is a flat out lie, it dose not make valid BSP objects…

My advice for getting into games , is go to this link : http://sv2.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/uunr_vtmlist.php?c=13
and follow the basics video tutorials…
then D-load wings 3d, and Blender for all your modeling and animateing needs…

The only thing you may have to purchase is Milkshape, wich is a benifit to any 3d artists tool box! only like 30$ or 40$ also… but worth it… and you only need Milkshape if you want to use Zbrush, wings and blender for static meshes… you can make static meshes in unrealed also, so MilkShape is not realy nessissary… I realy suggest it… I bought it when it was just for halflife… now it supports every major videogame engine, and every 3d application I have tried…I use it every day for one thing or another.

Hope this helps …

If you guys are intrested in makeing comercial videogames, let me know there are a few easy game engines out there you can buy licence to, and make money
3D Game studio is not one of them, it is hard as hell to use compared to even FREE game engines.Check out AMP II insted, it comes with great stuff, it is alot like unreal ed, and is only $200 to get a shareware licence/ $2000 to get fullblown SDK and game engine, and all other tools… I suggest just the $200! they even help you sell your game

well have fun! I hope to see alot more Zbrush stuff in games in the future

[Dan_R]

tx 4 the post Polaris … Ive been over to 3D Buzz and downloaded alot of the tuts … very cool. I dont have a star yet … so I only downloaded the “free” ones.

If I get into it more Ill probably just buy the CD’s with all the content as I dont think Ill be hanging around in the forums enough to get a star. Some people have hundreds of posts and dont have a star yet :).

On Milk shape do you use it as a converter … I ask cause you say u use it alot. :qu:

[system]

Polaris30,

Why would you come to the ZBrush forum and bash products. You know the bad experiences I have had with Caligari’s gameSpace and yet I have never said a word about it here (or in any other forum other than 3D GameStudio’s). This is just not the proper way to be.

Secondly, as a 3D GameStudio user I would certainly defend the product. It is not hard to use and it is not “half-baked”. I think your comments show that you really do not know what you are talking about.

I own my own graphic studio and, for real-time 3D content, I use 3D GameStudio. The result is that over 80% of my business is RT3D. I make a nice living doing this creating content for games as well as archeological recreations and RT3D training simulations. So I don’t think that 3D GameStudio is “half-baked” at all.

Secondly, Conitec, the creators of 3D GameStudio, do not “mislead people” in the least. Conitec is one of the most open and honest companies I have had dealings with. They are very straight forward in dealing with their customers.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>they claim you can click together a game<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is what their web site says:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>- ‘Click together’ games in the level editor - for simple games, like shooters

• Program games in C-Script using the built-in compiler - for ambitious commercial projects

• Program games in C++ using an external compiler - for professional developers<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The ‘click together’ part is, as they say, for simple games. And, yes, you can click together a complete simple FPS in 3DGS. If you want something more advanced then you can use the scripting language or C++ (soon you can use ANSI C as well). So there is no false or misleading advertising on their site.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>the game engine is only half baked<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Full programable shaders, a physics engine, BSP, dynamic lights and a ton of other features and more in the works … naw … its not half baked.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>but in all reality you will have to write bits and pieces to a game engine to actualy make it work correctly…lame things like the guns hitting the center of crosshair.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hitting the center of a crosshair is NOT writing bits and pieces of a game engine at all. It is writing game code. There is a big, big difference. Targeting is NOT what the RT3D engine does. Once again, that is game code and that is why 3D GameStudio gives you a scripting language and the ability to use C++ and even Delphi.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>There is also another product called GAMESPACE… thease guys work along side conitec ripping people off<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While I have had my problems with gameSpace, I do not have any problems with Conitec. They are not related companies. There is a partnership between Caligari and Conitec only to provide access to the tools. Caligari also has partnerships with DarkBASIC Pro, Blitz3D and others. So all these guys are trying to rip us off? I think not. You are very much off base here.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>the Map importer is a flat out lie, it dose not make valid BSP objects…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While the original web site for the Level Exporter for gameSpace did indeed inflate the truth it is NOT correct to say that it does not make valid BSP objects. It certainly does. If you create your level within gameSpace with BSP restrictions in mind then it will export valid BSP levels with no problems. The original problem was that Caligari claimed that the Level Exporter could take non-BSP correct geometry and create BSP correct geometry and that all would be great. This was not the case as there were errors in the geometry when attempting to export non-BSP correct geometry from gameSpace.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>3D Game studio is not one of them, it is hard as hell to use compared to even FREE game engines.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Certianly not true.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Check out AMP II insted, it comes with great stuff, it is alot like unreal ed, and is only $200 to get a shareware licence/ $2000 to get fullblown SDK and game engine, and all other tools<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let’s give all the facts on AMPII licensing:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Personal license $200. Limited to use on one computer system by one person. Games made with this license can be distributed through our upcoming shareware plan, released for free on the internet, submitted to publishers, used for non profit purposes. They cannot be sold, marketed or published without a professional license unless you opt to use our upcoming shareware plan. Comes with forum access for support.
Professional license $2000.00 . Limited to use on one computer system by one person. Customer can sell, market or distribute or publish their game. Comes with forum access and 30 days of email support.
Professional unlimited seat license $25,000.00. If you have a large team and don’t want to worry about how many copies of AMP II you can use or install, then this is the package for you. The package comes with forum and email support, plus tool source code!
Professional source $40,000.00. Full engine and tool source code allows serious developers to modify anything they wish, rendering code, networking, tools, etc.
Email support $500.00 per year. Will answer emailed questions within 1-2 working business days.
Tool Source code. $5,000.00 Customize the editor and tools to fit your own needs.
All licensing options come with the full featured tool kit, demo art and level resources, examples, tutorials, private user forum access, full documentation and more! Everything you need (besides art programs) to create professional quality games is included! Other game engines of this quality can cost up to $1,000,000.00 to license and a royalty fee must be paid as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AMPII is nice … but if you don’t code then you need a coder for sure. If you do code, your options are a lot wider in that there are more engines to choose from (that is for sure). The licensing restrictions for AMPII are a lot stiffer than otehr engines.

If you code, then I would recommend either Torque (www.garagegames.com) or Cipher (www.cipherengine.com). Both are a bit different, but a little investigation will reveal which engine is for you.

If you don’t code, then 3D GameStudio (www.3dgamestudio.com) is the way to go (despite what Polaris says). Don’t take his word for it. Go to their forum and ask questions. It may not be the engine for you, though. It all depends on your needs.

If you want to do some BASIC programming then perhaps BLITZ3D would work well for you (www.blitzbasic.com). It is very fast for BASIC.

So, please don’t bash a product … especially when you really don’t know what you are talking about. I will honest and tell anyone the strengths and weaknesses of 3D GameStudio … and I have been using the product for over 5 years now.

[Polaris30]

@Dan R, yea I use it as a converter all the time, at one time I used it to animate, but I have been useing blender lately …

Check out UDN also for unreal content… even the 2003 stuff is relevent in 2004…

@Dan sil., You cant click together a shooter with 3DGS… you have to modify the template scripts to make it hit the crosshair for god’s sake! and to fint the info on how to do this you have to dig through a online monthly magazine with code that is mostly for older versions of 3dgs.,…and for scripting questiond all tech support tells you is RTFM, I recieved no help from the tech support at all… only on the forums did I get help…It is realy sad too, it would only take conitec a few minuets to fix this in the download… insted they make you go find stuff in the forums… If you wanna learn how to make c script 3d game studio is a great way to learn codeing…

I think you like it because you are the only one who has well written documentation for it… and you charge a fee for people to read it (I would too! great money maker, you are ingenious!)… your intrests are totaly based on money in my opinion. you make money off the people who cant get good tutorials or good awnsers from conitec… everyone who needs good documentation on the new template scripts has to pay you, and rightfuly so, your tutorials are very well written…or they have to play 20 questions with conitec in the new template script forum…I mean no offence but it is verry clear why you would like noobies to play the conitec licenceing game…

I think you are totaly cool by provideing this… it is nice that someone as well edjucated as you make good easy to read tutorials for 3d game studio… but for the money spent I think the kids would be better off just buying unreal 2004 fo 35-60$ and learning from free video tutorials, and thousands of other great tutorials from all over the net on how to make game content…and if they dont learn they still have a cool game to play

I agree with torque… torque is a good game engine… they have a nice comunity also…was it $200? cant remember…still a bit complicated for the noobie though in my opinion…they also have some kind of content shareing program going, you donate so much, then you can download so much I think…

this is just my experiance with 3dGS, and I will warn people agenst it, because unreal is alot easyer to use… Alot better for the noobie! and alot cheeper! plus they can play with their friends with it on populated servers… unreal and quake 3 based games are alot easyer to get started with…mainly because of the abundance of documentation on it, and tutorials, and IRC channels, videos…ect…

BTW I will voice my opinion on products I own any way I wish, especialy the ones that I feel burned with…Maby you had a good experiance but I sure didn’t I had a bad experiance and I will warn my friends agenst them… 3d game studio is alot more complicated than anything I have experianced before,Only because of the lack of documentation… I realy believed I could click together a game with it… I cant… I can with quake 3 , I can with Unreal , unreal 2003, unreal 2004…soon we can use displacement mapping HL2 and DOOM 3!!! WOOT WOOT WOOT!!!

Unreal is alot easyer to use, alot easyer to get started with… Ect ect… ect… Plus LOTS of documentation… FREE DOCUMENTATION! Free Videos, and Servers to play on… I am with Jungle warfare mod team, and because we let jolt host our site, they give us free public / betatesting server…there is documentation in all languages, Lots and lots of it!

LOL! go buy ut2004, have fun playing it…and if you want you can make cool stuff with it…stuff ports from Zbrush - Milkshape - Unreal realy quick and easy, all the smoothing, all the AVUtextures, everything realy easy

comes with a docked version of MAYA for your animations and static meshes… It totaly rocks! right out of the box! can click together real game content ! tweak existing content…3d game studio dose not even compare to what you get with unreal… UPAINT, MAYA PLE, Unreal ed it blows away 3dgs as a learning tool… people who know maya are actualy employable…

for the noob Unreal 2004 rocks

[system]

Polaris,

You show that you do not know what you are talking about. I am sorry to say it. I will say this, if you use ut2004 or any of the other commerical game engines you mentioned (Quake, etc) then you cannot make a commercial game or application from them at all. Yes, you can learn and you can have fun (and I have no problems with that), but you cannot create anything to be sold and even some freeware stuff may be off-limits as well. With engines like 3D GameStudio, Torque, Cipher, Blitz3D and others you can indeed make commercial games and applications with them.

Also, I am not defending 3D GameStudio from a money position. I am defending it because I believe in the product. It is so easy to use that a total non-programmer like me can make applications with it and, yes, even a living. I could not do that with Torque, Cipher or even the commercial engines you speak of in your post.

As far as the documentation, it has been updated three times in the last number of months. Here again you show that you do not know really what you are talking about. When it comes to programming you have to “do it yourself”. The information is there and the C-Script manual is like a typical programmer’s manual. This means the functions for programming are covered and explained. The programmer then has to put them to use.

As far as my magazine, there is a reason I charge for it. It takes a lot of time to produce it and there is a staff of people that work on creating it. I want them to be rewarded for their labor. The magazine is not just an HTML document shoved up on a web site somewhere. It is a fully formatted program and also comes with example files, etc. I originally produced the magazine because 3D GameStudio users indicated they wanted something like this and that they were willing to pay for it. After more than a year of publishing it this has proven to be true.

Now, you can, of course, state whatever you like. I believe in free speach. On the other hand, you should at least have your facts in order before slamming something or someone. You had a bad experience with 3D GameStudio. Fine. I can understand that. But I would suspect that it was not the product per se. I’ll give an example of what I mean.

About a year ago I downloaded the ZBrush demo after seeing some of the amazing work done with it. I found that the UI was daunting and soon discovered that I could not work my head around it. I found I could do nothing with it! After attempting to work with ZBrush for a number of weeks I finally deleted the demo from off of my hard drive and I was left with a bad taste in my mouth.

You know, I could have gone around telling people how bad ZBrush was. I could have said things like, “The people at ZBrush mislead you! They tell you that you can easily create all sorts of things with ZBrush but you cannot!” And say all sorts of untrue statements like that. If I had said things like this they would have been based on my experience with the ZBrush demo but they still would not be true.

Not too long ago I decided to try ZBrush again. I cannot say why I decided this, but I did. I dove into to ZBrush a bit deeper and, you know what? The program began to make a bit more sense to me. The UI started to become less of an obsticle and I found that I could more easily create some things … that the claims of Pixologic were not untrue. So, in this case, it was not the software or the company … but the user.

I suspect the same is true with you and 3D GameStudio. You had a bad experience and now you want to tell the entire world about it. Well, your experience is indeed your experience, but it may not validate your statements against Conitec and 3D GameStudio. Perhaps you just could not get your head around the program (like me and my first experiences with ZBrush).

[Polaris30]

I got my head around it just fine… the advertisements are missleading… there are better ways for noobies to learn…

unreal is the best learning tool around in my opinion…

for noobies 3d game studio is not the way in my opinion…half baked and hard to use…unreal is alot easyer to learn with.

we can go on and on about this… but lets not shall we?

here is an idea, start your own thread telling all the great things 3d game studio has to offer… this thread is more for the noobies to get a grasp of unreal…with free videos

If I started in videogames with 3d game studio I would have given up! it is not for beginners in my opinion…

I do know what I am talking about, I am a profesional modeler… I have worked for a few large companys and a few small companies…and now I have my own company.

BTW if I dont know what I am talking about why did you ask me to make a Zbrush/3d game studio tutorial for your magazine?

anyways lets get back on subject… Unreal, and Buzz 3d

for beginners unreal is the easyest way to go learning how to bring in game content in my opinion…

This post is about makeing video game content anyways… not just comercial stuff… GAME CONTENT in general… The same stuff (except for lights actors and BSP) can be ported to any game engine VIA milkshape, or Lithunwrap. the Buzz 3d tutorials can be applied to other game engines and modeling applications… alot of techniques and wording are simular from game engine to game engine…

shall we please stay on topic…this was not intended to be a 3d game studio thread, it is for unreal… lets get back to game content… and unreal.

If you would like to debate 3d game studio please make your own thread, your input here is unproductive, and insulting …it is keeping me from the point of getting noobies into the fun world of makeing videogame content with Zbrush. you realy should not assume so much, I know you did not mean to insult me… dont worry I am not upset about it, it just made me fidjet a bit in my chair when I first read it …

I am able to make things with 3d game studio. I certanly did not click them together. it is hard. it is harder than any other game engines I have used. and I am certanly not going to recomend it to a noobie.

as a matter of fact I am not going to recomend Blitz, torque, or dark basic either… Unreal is alot easyer to get instant edjucational results. (I know I spelled it wrong as a joke )

I am glad to see you likeing Zbrush more, I can already see improvements in your artwork in your posts…you learn at a very fast rate… I encourage everyone who is into videogame content creation use Zbrush…

I am glad to see you give it another chance… I bought it after only 3 days use… still my most used piece of software.

I use it every day now with Z2 it is even easyer! in the next few days I am going to be makeing some realy cool stuff for UT2004 most of it is going to be modeled and textured in Zbrush

I just got done with big contract, we are takeing 2 weeks off in celebration, I intend on makeing a few realy cool maps for UT2004.

BTW thanks again for the info on 3ds, I am going to buy it on monday I think, I am useing Viewpoint now for alot of my work, and the plugins for 3ds make life alot easyer for getting things into viewpoint from the forum posts I have read…

I also hope you dont think I was attacking your magizine, it is a great idea like I said before… you make great tutorials, it is worth every cent… I hope you didnt think I was bashing your mag or its price… it helps out alot of people especialy people who buy conitec products…it is worth every cent…

have a good day

[system]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>for noobies 3d game studio is not the way in my opinion…half baked and hard to use…unreal is alot easyer to learn with.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You make these statements and yet you do not support them. In what way is 3D GameStudio “half baked”? Instead of just stating it, support what you say.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>here is an idea, start your own thread telling all the great things 3d game studio has to offer… this thread is more for the noobies to get a grasp of unreal…with free videos<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two points on this:

1 - This is a forum and discussion is what happens.
2 - You specifically targetted 3D GameStudio and Caligari’s gameSpace in this thread and bashed them.

That means that discussion about said products is open game in this thread. If the thread were only about getting “noobs” to see the videos and use UT as a means to learn about RT3D game development, then why even mention 3D GameStudio or gameSpace at all?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>BTW if I dont know what I am talking about why did you ask me to make a Zbrush/3d game studio tutorial for your magazine?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please put this in context. You stated that you knew all sorts of ways to bring ZBRUSH models into 3D GameStudio. I believed you. Based on this I asked if you would be interested in writing a tutorial. BTW - Did you notice that I have not asked again? There is a reason for this, you know.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>shall we please stay on topic…this was not intended to be a 3d game studio thread, it is for unreal…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then you should never have bashed 3D GameStudio in your original post.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If you would like to debate 3d game studio please make your own thread<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again, then you should never have bashed 3D GameStudio in a thread intended to talk about using UT to create RT3D game content.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>your input here is unproductive, and insulting<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As was your bashing of 3D GameStudio for no apparent reason in a thread that was supposed to be about using UT as to create RT3D game content.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>it is keeping me from the point of getting noobies into the fun world of makeing videogame content with Zbrush.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As were your comments bashing 3D GameStudio and Caligari’s gameSpace.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>you realy should not assume so much<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Neither should you

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I am able to make things with 3d game studio. I certanly did not click them together. it is hard. it is harder than any other game engines I have used. and I am certanly not going to recomend it to a noobie.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought we weren’t supposed to be talking about 3D GameStudio in this thread anymore?

In any case, be more specific. How was it “hard”? What other game engines have you used that were “easier”?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>as a matter of fact I am not going to recomend Blitz, torque, or dark basic either… Unreal is alot easyer to get instant edjucational results. (I know I spelled it wrong as a joke )<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you cannot use UT for anything commercial. So you are limited to only use it for educational purposes or for MODs. This is well and good, but much of the knowledge gleaned will be UT specific.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I intend on makeing a few realy cool maps for UT2004.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of the guys I subcontract with was one of the models/skinners for UT2004 (and a few other EPIC related things). He does great work. He also uses 3D GameStudio (I just had to add that, you know ).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I also hope you dont think I was attacking your magizine, it is a great idea like I said before… you make great tutorials, it is worth every cent… I hope you didnt think I was bashing your mag or its price… it helps out alot of people<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope. Don’t think you were bashing it at all. I just think you aren’t stating your arguments very well, assuming a lot and connecting dots that aren’t even there.

[system]

Thanks for the links, Polaris30. I think the info could be universal for users of various engines.

Zbrush is very useful for creating game content (art), since demo is free it can be used for learning and creating art for indy games just as is. The full version is still hell of the bargain too, even with the new pricing.

I am preparing thead about art workflow Zbrush-to-indyRTA, I hope it would be interesting for someone :).

I think this discussion bacame somehow unconstuctive, because both of you guys have quite valid points. Regarding bashing any software, I would say only that: One people trash is other people treasure. To be more specific, any software has its own strong and weak points. It is just a way it is.

Dan Silverman, welcome to zbrush community. I can remember I had similar feelings when I originally downloaded zbrush, until I realized its strong points and zbrush became my favorite software for painting and modeling… And BTW zbrush never tried to appear to be more powerful than it is, as far as I know :).

[Zaphod]

lots of sermon there:

in 3D (making games is more fun with things like FRUA, BTCS, or newer: Visionaire) I started with the first unreal, Ued to be precise. Followed up by WOT, Rune, DeusEX, HalfLife, Quoole >> all for their editors (well Quoole IS an editor).
Found my way around there (I am NO coder!), and so I thought I might try something different and begun to look around.
As I’d said: the only thing I can produce in ANY code is “hello world”, so this new package had to be suiting this.
Following (and fooled) by the adverticement I bought the 3D Game Studio.
No big loss, but I hate to be fooled (who does not).

But there is still something else: “earn money making games!”
As a one-man-projekt? Just forget it if it should happen in this life! Sure, you can finish something mediocre, a shooter perhaps. But as soon as you try your fortune on something like a RPG (the old ones, with a real plot) - well, you can test your abilities to do so: get NWN and have a look.

Fazit: first you get fooled by some packages, and the second time you get fooled is when you start to believe you, and you alone would be able to put out a game, earn money - five years from now.

Only what I learned.

EDIT: been to the aforementioned Site:
If “we” (all those level editors back then) only had such tutorials!! Terrific!
Makes me think that all this fuzz about 3dGameStudio is a bit misplaced (aside from two noble warriors, bashing at one and another with sharp meshes :D).
For newbies in level editing those videos (have not looked at them yet) might make the difference.

[MarioBlanco]

Hi Polaris30 i want ti thanks you for your purpose im really interested in this topic, i have visualized that the one of the most useful and attractive way to teach in Medicine coul be animation games witn Medicine content so…

I will re-uptake the title of your topic because that is my interest and as say Zaphod lots of sermon with the inconvenient for me that i dont understand the mayority of the things that are discussing (i dont say that are not important, please, just i dont understand).

Is possible to initiate THIS topic LIKE A prolongued thread of how make games with ZB2 and other(s) game development program and THE EXPERT HERE SHOW US HOW TO?

Let say:
1.-First step:…the expert here say what is the first step…eg. make the model with this properties:No poligon, etc…
2.-Second step:…import to X progra…
3.-…so on…

Polaris30 the link tutorial are great and i really thanks you.¡¡¡also Zaphod I like the possitve way you assume this topic¡¡

Andreseloy

[Zaphod]

Andrè, making those levels is not that hard (talking about Ued in it’s many forms). You will be building all sorts of scenery in no time (very good for backgrounds, too - if you snapshot them).

Even own buildings and props are easily made with the onboard (via installing) tools.
The hard part (next to scripting) is to build own models of things that move, animated stuff.
Models like we know them in ZBrush differ greatly from those that are used in games like Unreal: it’s the poly count that will make your life a hard one.
If you can think of a very “blocky” version of your best ZBrush model: that’s it! No fingers or toes, just one block of the least possible poly’s. Every kind of detail is there just because of the textures!
On the one hand this makes building those models an easy thing, you don’t have to bother much for details when you are building your mesh.
Texturing is another matter: if you look at a typical texture from Unreal: makes you want to reach for some Aspirin!!
So, it makes - in my opinion - not much sense to try and do those models with Z2: you can simply forget about meshes with a typical Z2 poly count.
If you want to do models for a game like Unreal or Quake: use Gmax . A tool that is built only for those who want to build game content.

You can, however, take any Z2 model, reduce the mesh/poly’s and bring it into your game, and maybe the new displacement maps will make it all possible!?

[MarioBlanco]

Hi Zaphod i think you pickup my animation needs in this moment, some tools to work with it…probably in the futute the needs will change and become more deep¡¡
Thanks and you know the link for that tools?
Andreseloy

[Reactor]

Guys,

Mods -> Have Game engine -> Use Free/cheap tools

Indie -> Buy Premade engine -> Use Cheap tools

Commercial-> Make Inhouse engine -> Use Pro tools

I’m amazed at the amount of times in this thread people have got these three distinct development groups completely entangled. At times they can overlap a little, but rarely do. Try your hardest not to get them confused. To do with this, even though there seems to be this ‘buy engine, sell game’ mentality, only commercial guys have a good chance at earning money, and that comes with a lot more than Milkshape format models and pre-made engines.

The thing is, you can learn certain elements of modeling, texture work and level design with tutorials, but honestly, there’s so much more to game creation it isn’t even funny. Polaris30, you seem to be a good guy for advice on modding (apart from the bagging of certain programs) but make sure you don’t blur the line, and people don’t misunderstand that you’re not an expert on commercial game creation. Some of the things you’ve said show you really don’t understand the other aspects of creating a game.

I’m curious Dan, what problems did you have with Gamespace?

[Zaphod]

Now, Zbrush is for most of the users exactly what MOD-building is for others: great fun.

Earning money with “homegrown” games? Have a look at the shareware-scene: that’s where your games will be available - if you ever make it that far.
“Making” games is fun as long you can make your living doing a “normal” job. If it becomes your job (rare enough): you will hate it in a short while - just like that job you had before.

This Thread served a “good” purpose anyway: installed NaPali again (because of the textures) >> level editing has not lost a bit of the fun it had when Unreal first was available !!!

[MarioBlanco]

Thanks Zaphod i right now have downloaded GMax, i will comment and ask later¡¡¡
Thanks friend¡¡
Andreseloy

[Reactor]

Zaphod, making games is what I do for a living. The day when I hate it as much as working in a bottle factory will be a very strange day indeed.

[system]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Mods -> Have Game engine -> Use Free/cheap tools

Indie -> Buy Premade engine -> Use Cheap tools

Commercial-> Make Inhouse engine -> Use Pro tools<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is not always the case (sorry to be so disagreeable in this thread, guys . I’ll try to clarify a little.

Mods - You got this one right.

Indie - In some cases you are right, but in some cases indies will use a pre-made engine and Pro tools (I fit into this catagory for the most part)

Commercial - Most commercial games do not use in-house engines anymore. There are good reasons for this. The cost of the programmers and the amount of time it takes is simply cost prohibitive. And this is especially true when many AAA games barely break even in the end. Therefore most games will use pre-made engines (i.e. license Quake, Unreal, Lithtech, etc). In the end this is less expensive than building your own and certainly faster. Not only that, your license will give you access to the programmers that created the engine for tech support.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I’m curious Dan, what problems did you have with Gamespace?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Polaris can probably tell you all about the problems as he was there with me through most of them. I won’t go into great detail. I will say that gameSpace could shape up to be a fine product if Caligari will listen to their customers.

If you really want to know the story of Caligari and me, then please either email or PM me. I don’t see a reason to bash Caligari here in this thread.

Thanks!

[system]

Zaphod,

I make game content and RT3D environments for training simulations for a living. I love every moment of it and I have been doing it for years. So I would totally disagree with your statement that you would hate it if it became a job. It is my living.

[Zaphod]

I knew this would come !!

Well you are lucky enough, really!
But: for every one woman/man that REALLY likes her/his job, I can show you ten that feel a bit different.

If someone reads this, she/he might get the impression that “making” games is just like ZBrushing the whole day, week, month, year - and GET CASH for this. The pro’s that you are: you know it is quite different!
And it makes a additional difference if I own a company or if I am the man for the backgrounds.
It’s just another job where you need more then pure talent to survive.

[Reactor]

Thanks for the hammering, Dan

You’re right, and that’s why I said there are areas that overlap. I didn’t want to elaborate (and to boredom) on who uses pro tools and what-not. I personally love Wings, but then, I use Zbrush which is considered a pro tool by many. Anyway, I actually forgot to mention that most developers purchase engines these days, but even so, the cost of the engine alone adds even more to the distance between the three areas. My point of pro vs non still stands

I agree completely about the advantages of purchasing a full engine (not a basic level one, like Torque, however). Good points.

I have no intention to hear too much about Gamespace, or to bash Caligari. I’m personally a (happy) Truespace user, and have found that in most ways Caligari do their best to accomodate those having difficulties with their products. Since they are new to a game product like Gamespace, I was simply going to suggest making your voice heard so they can aim to improve their product as much as possible.