ZBrushCentral

How to process in creating a wheel rim

Hi there,

would be great, if someone skilled out there might help me in
completing the process of building an alloy wheel with ZBrush.


I started with creating a rim (1) a spoke (2) and the center (3).
So I am pretty flexible when it comes to changing a spoke style, or the spoke counts,
size of the rim, shape of the center, etc.


The point I stuck is the further step, after I set the design.
In detail, when it comes to the connections between this components.

I come from the CAD-construction, reason to switch to ZBrush is, to work more intuitive.
Out of this reason, I would like to use Zbrush basicly for concepting and therefore I would highly desire a solution using brushes over ZModeler, or using tools like bevel pro.

So which brushes I will need to use, and how, in case of connecting this components?
What would you recommend for this task?

An other question would be:

When I would change the styling of the spoke (2), and would like to let it fluently pass over into the center (3), how to achieve a super smooth transition between this two components?


Is there any tool that gives me control over it, or is doable either with some brushes intuitively?


Thank you so much for help!

Hi @DarkStar ,

So what it looks like here is that you are trying to soften or ease the transition between pieces of hard surface geometry after you fuse them together. Hard surface work typically has some additional concerns, and requires you to more carefully manage your topology. While you may be able to achieve satisfactory results using “quick and dirty” methods at high resolution, taking the time to create high quality topology for your model will ultimately give you the best results and the finest control. It’s likely that either approach will have you frequently shifting your topology at different steps in the process.



Please keep the following general principles in mind:

  1. When working at high resolution , the detail and crisp edges are maintained by the dense geometry there. As you remove points from the mesh, you will also lose form and detail. So in the case of hard surface meshes, it’s important to reduce the geometry into a form that results in edges being deliberately drawn along the natural edges of the mesh so that they can be marked for creasing. Otherwise the form of the mesh will smooth itself away when subdividing up from low poly to re-smooth it.

  2. The form of any mesh can be expected to smooth itself when it is subdivided as long as SMT is active, unless an edge is creased or there is dense geometry there to maintain the detail. The lower poly the mesh is when subdivided, the stronger the softening of the form will be. This can be used to create soft transitions by simply defining the areas you wish to stay sharp and subdividing the mesh. Transitions and edges will naturally smooth themselves unless specifically protected or reinforced with additional topology. Two edges placed closely together are the same as a crease, and can be moved farther apart to soften the edge.

It’s an old ZBrush trick to subdivide a mesh partially with creased edges, then eliminate the creasing and continue to subdivide. This produces softened edges that are still well defined but not impossibly sharp.

  1. You can mask an area of the mesh to protect it, and smooth the unmasked portion with various sliders in the Tool> Deformation palette. Your results here will be dependent on the quality of your topology and your ability to isolate the geometry you want to target for smoothing. Polygroups are going to be extremely useful here, as are the various shortcuts for quickly hiding sections of geometry:

http://docs.pixologic.com/user-guide/3d-modeling/modeling-basics/polygroups/

http://docs.pixologic.com/user-guide/3d-modeling/modeling-basics/mesh-visibility/

http://docs.pixologic.com/user-guide/3d-modeling/modeling-basics/masking/



You would have the finest control and the cleanest results by converting your mesh into a low poly form with very clean topology and polygrouping. This can be done with ZRemesher and well defined polygroups. However it is a broad subject in itself, requiring you to be comfortable with Zmodeler and low poly modeling as well as the ins and outs of using ZRemesher to reduce and simplify geometry.



A quick and dirty approach I might recommend here when working at higher poly is to use Bevel Pro. Bevel Pro can create bevel geometry to serve as transitions for complicated mesh intersections. These can be applied to the mesh to change it directly, or imported back into the program as a subtool to be used in a non-destructive Live Boolean process. All you have to do is group the the sections you want to create bevels between into separate polygroups.

You can then use ZRemesher to simplify and clean the topology, which can be further subdivided and smoothed.

Please see the following image, and forgive me for creating such a simple usage scenario. The problem with this simple case could be easier solved a half dozen other, faster ways. Your problem is that you are fusing separate pieces of high resolution geometry with a very complicated intersection, and don’t have access to clean, simple edge loops to edit the polygons directly with modeling operations. I am merely using this case to illustrate the process.

  1. In this image you see we have two primitives that have been fused together with Live Boolean. This leaves the topology mostly unchanged, but creates extreme triangular geometry at the intersection. This type of geometry will cause problems when attempting to sculpt, smooth, or subdivide it. Unless you are simply going to decimate and export, you may want to clean this if you are going to work with it further.

  2. I use Bevel Pro to create the transitions, apply changes and hit “ok”.

  3. This is the resulting mesh. You see the same problem geometry at the intersection. If you’re going to do anything else to this mesh you will probably want to clean it up, and doing so will provide you with more opportunties to smooth and shape the geometry.

  4. I use Zremesher with the Keep Groups option to simply the geometry and return it to clean quads. Main points here:

  • ZRemesh at high target polycount to start, then reduce with “half” option until you start to lose the form.

  • Local flaws in the topology are usually caused by tiny polygons near a border that may have a stray polygroup. May not be able to be seen unless you smooth the mesh. Use Dynamic subdivision to help you preview what the mesh will look like when smoothed. Being comfortable with Zmodeler will let you touch up problem areas on the fly.

Once ZRemeshed, now I have nice clean quad topology and clean edge loops that I can manipulate or delete to shape the transition further. Subdivide to smooth.

Good luck! :slight_smile:

1 Like

Hi @DarkStar ,

Oh, regarding this:

Live Boolean. Some type of boolean chain will solve anything like this. If one of the pieces cleanly divides the other, you can use the Live Boolean process with that piece set to subtractive mode that will produce two resulting separate meshes. Delete the unwanted portion.

However, the lower piece in your image would need to poke through the other mesh in order to cleanly divide it. Otherwise you would need to use a scenario where one cutting mesh is used to cut both pieces, resulting in a seamless intersection.

:slight_smile:

1 Like

First of all @Spyndel I have to thank you a million time.
I don´t expect such a deep and detailed reply with all your inputs.
It must have take you some time to think in and rebuild the scenario, screenshot it and describe. Thank you soo much, that´s really friendly.

I know all the tools you mentioned, but for me it was really helpful, that you put in the pictures and the numbers, which step to go in process. Also it was really helpful that you explained why to do so…

After that I come up with that result…

So I know for example, that I need to substract the back contour at last. You see the irritation on last image left hand side.
But that shouldn´t be a problem, when following one step after the other in process.

Nevertheless, I think, I will use that workflow for more detailed situations, like the boldholes-fillets for the screws and similar stuff, which is well defined.

I find another quick and dirty solution for concepting here:

So I could even paint the part which should have a transition.
I can easily mask it in witdh an bridge it. After that I just smooth it.
That worked quite good for me:



And I did that really quick just for test tasks.
Guess if I would put a bit more time in, it will get excactly what I am going for.

It is of course not the sophisticated solution you recommended, but I am pretty sure I will use both of them in the future. And therefore I really thank you a lot.
Helps me to choose the right solution for any task.

Yes, you´re probably right here.
I think I would use the trim curve tool in the front view and cut the upper part.
It will need to have some space for a comfortable transition.
I would decide for the bridge tool to reconnect here as well.
The ZRemesher could here also be helpful to get both pieces in a similar polycount and therefore to a cleaner result.

So I am playing a bit around with all that tools to find a intuitive and flexible solution, which is also clean as possible.

Thanks again, that was a great help!
:smile: :+1:

Hi @DarkStar ,

Excellent, I’m glad that was somewhat useful. Remember that you can blur the mask for softer falloffs for smoothing or deformation sliders.

When working like this the most straightforward solution may be to simply sculpt the transition onto into the spoke by flaring the end prior to merging. There are many tools in ZBrush that can help you do that. Even the standard Gizmo manipulator will perform soft deformations if the Focal Shift for the transpose brush is set to values greater than -100. So you could position the manipulator at the end of the spoke and scale it with some degree of falloff so that only the end is flared.

Then when you go to fuse the meshes together, the basic form and mass will be there already. There may be a visible seam there, but this can probably be eliminated through a ZRemesher process.



Live Boolean vs Dynamesh.

Both of these features do some similar things in different ways, and one may be more useful for a situation. Live Boolean is highly accurate–it only changes the topology where the meshes intersect as required, and it only does this by adding edges.

Dynamesh on the other hand will completely resurface a mesh when it is used to fuse pieces together. Sometimes this can be used to find just the right resolution that will capture the form accurately, but eliminate any seams from the fusion process.

So in some situations it may be useful to first Dynamesh the pieces together to consolidate the form, then use ZRemesher to clean it up.

:slightly_smiling_face:

1 Like

Hey @Spyndel ,

the blurring effect is also a good point, I also forget that function.
Great tip.

OK, to pull the end of the spoke in direction to the center could even be a good solution.
I will try that out as well. THX!!!

Till now I thought easiest way would be to fill the edge between spoke and center with the clay, or claybuildup brush and smooth it later. But I never got any satisfied result.
Do you think that could also be a way? Maybe with some other brushes?
Or do you think that even doesn´t work with any brush?
So using just brushes can´t handle that task?
But if you see a chance to do so, which brushes would you recommend for such a task?



Live Boolean vs Dynamesh

That sounds really interseting.
I recognize the difference, if I make an addaptive boolean instead of just using a merged body.
But you´re right, it also makes a difference, when using which step first and which step after, when applying dynamesh and ZRemesher.

Hi @DarkStar ,

Let me introduce you to one more feature that may be of use to you here. The Intersection Master plugin can be used to create a mask where two pieces of geometry intersect. This may allow you to more accurately shape a mask to fit the contour of the target surface in a high res modeling situation…

Please see the following image:

  1. You will need a medium-high resolution mesh with well distributed quads for the end to deform properly and in order to produce a good quality masking edge. So In this case I have Dynameshed a somewhat complex shape in order to resurface the mesh and make it suitable for the deformation.

Something I have going for for me here that you don’t have in your original example is well-defined polygroups. You will see how this will pay off in the end.

  1. I merge the two subtools together and use the Intersection Master plugin. If you then split or hide the ring, you can see that the “spoke” in this case now has a mask that is perfectly shaped to the contour of the ring. The mask can be blurred and shaped with the various grow, shrink, blur and other functions in the Masking palette. You can shape the mask to get the falloff you want.

  2. Ctrl-click the canvas to invert the mask

  3. I position the Gizmo manipulator at the center of the unmasked portions. “Go to Unmasked Center” is one of the icons that floats above the manipulator.

  4. Live Boolean to fuse the meshes together.

  5. I did a quick ZRemesher with “Keep Groups” active to clean and simplify the geometry. Because I have well defined polygroups, that feature is able to convert the shape to high quality quad geometry with edges drawn exactly along the edges of the form. This makes the geometry accessible to low poly modeling operations as well as making it easier to work with in general.

I got lucky here and got really good results with my first try, though sometimes manual touch-ups will be necessary. Since I now have accurate edge loops and all my hard edges bordered by different polygroups, I can simply use the Geometry> Crease> CreasePG to crease all the polygroup borders with one button press. This will keep those edges sharp when subdividing.

  1. However, I don’t want sharp edges everywhere. We want a soft transition from the spoke to the ring. So I Shift-Click on the ring polygroup to hide everything else, then I use Geometry> Crease> Uncrease (open border) to remove the crease on edge where the ring and the spoke meet.

  2. Now I subdivide once or twice with the the spoke creased but not at the intersection. The spoke stays sharp but the transition is smoothed. Since I don’t want the edges on my spoke to be impossibly sharp, I remove ALL creasing then subdivide a couple more times.


This produces the highest quality results, because it leaves you with a multi-resolution mesh with high quality base topology, which is the most useful and flexible form for a mesh. From here you can go in any direction. You can go back to working at a high level of mesh resolution with sculpting operations, or you can edit the mesh with low poly operations at the base level. A multi resolution mesh will also eventually be required if you want to create textures or achieve the finest detail possible

:slight_smile:

1 Like

Hey Spyndel,

that looks like the exact solution, what I am looking for.
I will remodel that like you have recommend it.

Thank you so much for all the effort, which you put in that very detailed step-by-step guide.
Really helpful for me to get deeper and deeper into ZBrush.
I bet there are a lot of people out there, who can benefit from it as well.

Thank you - very kind from you!!!