ZBrushCentral

Ghost-Sculpting

Hi all,

obviously there is no image of a sculpted ghost here, but all the more food for thought, so do read on! :smiley:

I was discusssing this with a colleague the other day and thought I’d take the subject here and see where it leads.

How much “ghost-” modelling, -sculpting, -texturing etc, as in “ghost-writing”, do you guys think is going on in this here industry of ours?

The concept has been applied and practiced for ages everywhere else, so how about CG?

Especially when considering the “global village”, the digital nature of our work, suffocatingly tight deadlines and the super-fast and cheap infrastructure of the internet, this is an interesting question, would you not say so?:wink:

Hah! Came here expecting a ghost… What exactly would ‘ghost modelling’ be then? I’m not familiar with the term ghost writing etc…

Got ya! lol :wink:

“Ghost-writing” is when someone authors ie a book, screenplay, which is either a comission piece for or sold to the person who then publicly claims authorship. The “real” author never gets credit or any other public mention and is even contractually bound to keep quiet about it by an NDA, hence the term “ghost-writer”. Its done a lot for ie celebrities “authoring” autobiographies, novels etc, partial or full script-writing for TV and/or movies etc.

The concept applies to other areas of arts, design & crafts as well, but is just not termed in any similar way, at least not to my knowledge.

So, what do you think?

take a look @ the final fantasy movies. there are a few ghost

Now, do we have guy with a sense of humor here or what!? :wink:

I imagine this happens a lot in CG. Look at all the freelance 3D artists out there. Heck, look at the talent on this forum alone!!! I bet half the people on here don’t have regular 9-5 gigs in the industry.

I hope the “Ghost” gets a reasonable rate!

That’s my thoughts exactly.

I was wondering how many people, especially those who are new to the entertainment biz or not fully employed in a CG job actually think about the fact that the work claimed to be done by so-and-so could have actually been done by some entirely different person.

I mean, imagine this: You’re a CG artist who is in hot demand and can’t fill the requests or deadlines anymore, so why not find an unkown artist with a similar style somewhere where there is plenty of high-quality talent and the labour is cheap, say in China, comission some work, not worry about legal software usage, have them sign an NDA, pay him/her off, keep them handy for future work and sell that same work with some minor adjustments as your own. As a matter of my own opinion, that is highly unethical, but has been done in a similar fashion for ages, why would it stop now and especially in CG where mass-consumption of what we produce is the norm and undocumented authorship is pretty much not back-traceable to the original artist? From the other end, as the “ghost” and an artist struggling to make ends meet you just do it, no question asked, but still…

Any more opinions/thoughts on the subject?

PS: Perhaps I am getting some people started on some ideas! lol

I do graphic design mostly some motion graphics as well
and get hired by a lot of production companies. i never ever see the customer
i get the brief from my employee.
i do the work at my home office and send the project to them and heres is the funny stuff. Companies lies all the time . They lie their customers about how the work done, how many people worked on them, how long it taked to do. (just one guy and a computer and couple of days work)

And the other part is i cant put that stuff in my portfolio
i got lots of stuff that i cant get credit for. (which is became the price as working as a ghost or a freelancer)
But what you gonna do about it
We cant stop this its not a question of ethics anymore there is a lot of work to do and people doesnt want to hire anymore cg artists so they pay us projectwise

i hate to say this but its just how bussiness done They make good money out of it while their real project team works on something else they hire us to do the other clients work

Im not sure if it works that way in 3d bussiness but that is exactly how it works in design bussiness.
and anybody can become a ghost they need someone who is reliable and a professional work background. i called this hire and forget .:rolleyes:

‘Ghost Modeling’ is as old as the studio system, which is centuries (if not millennia) old. Wander the galleries of any well collected museum and you will come upon work after work with but a single name imprinted on it. In many cases they are indeed the result of independant industry. In many other cases the piece is the product of a studio, the product of many hands under the direction of a Master. Michelangelo’s ‘David’ was a studio project, DaVinci’s ‘Last Supper’ was a studio project and Rodin’s ‘Gates of Hell’ was a studio project. Many talented artists often go uncredited in such endeavors and become lost to history but for the occasional footnote. Gustave Dore would be less known but for the art of his engravers. To this day, Alexander Gardner’s famous photos of the Antietam Civil War battlefield are often attributed to Matthew Brady (his boss) who had never even been to Antietam and who deliberately took the credit. This is not to say that Masters do not deserve credit. Many of us have worked in studios where part of the job is to surrender ego. True Masters have become adept at the use of a tool-set called a ‘crew’ and use the hands of others as their own. It is an interesting and involving question and each case must be evaluated on its own merits. Frank Frazetta drew the Al Capp strip ‘Lil Abner’ for nearly ten years without credit. It took a contentious labor strike in the 40’s for Disney animators to get recognized for their efforts. The design of the gillman in Universal’s ‘Creature From the Black Lagoon’ is assigned to Bud Westmore, department supervisor, but it was primarily the imagination and maquettes of Jack Kevan, staff artist, that resulted in the world famous icon we know today.

~S.~

Hehehe, yeah I’m a Ghost Person! I’m not real, but somebody thinks they are me, so I exist. :wink:

All good points illustrating the reality of the artistic game and business as it has existed pretty much since the dawn of man.

My personal experience with this is more in the writing area and the real issue in my head, is not so much the studio system, (which is in itself a very viable and highly productive concept, that can be compared to a movie production, where the master artist is the director/producer and the apprentices are the gears in the network doing the work) but with incompetent and/or lazy people with money bluntly taking credit for what they dont really deserve.

For this, I think a clear differentiation between ie apprenticeship/freelancing and ghost-artistry is in order, although I guess the borderlines are pretty fluid. This is were the ethics question comes into play, as I had mentioned earlier.

Take the following example:
John Doe has the idea to “Planet Wars” and passes it on to you to write the script. So you spent months fleshing out the story, beautifully and skillfully illustrating here and there, putting eloquent dialogues into characters interactions etc and finally, with the x-th draft, the thing is approved and moves on into production .The credits in this example go as follows: Story: John Doe Screenplay: “Your name here” All is well and fair here, now imagine this:

Same example as above, but now J. Doe has you sign an NDA, forbidding you to mention the work you do anywhere in space and time and to anybody, and adorns himself with the writing credits and possibly even leaves you behind coughing in the dusty wake of his success and victory parade.

Now given the prerequisite that you are passed on to other jobs, you could work a lifetime this way producing excellent quality and never be able to build up a decent portfolio or professional industry reputation, having absolutely nothing, but a few unfinished scripts, sketches, sculpts…whatever… to show for on a public basis!!!

This is, in my opinion, where we have clearly moved into territory that is just plainly unethical and from an artistic perspective just terribly wrong.

I mean, here comes ie Angelica Jolly and “writes” her Autobiography.
Now everbody goes: “Great! What a talented person, so funny and well-versed… yada yada yada…”, when indeed she had just been recording some very crude, perhaps vulgar and boring tell-tales into a technical gadget and handed the thing over to a hired “ghost” to make it into an entertaining product.

I guess you could say, “All is fair in love and war and business is war!”, but from a perspective of honest artistry, I sure dont agree. I think no matter how small the contribution that made it into a final piece of art, the artist deserves credit and mention at least somewhere for making the “cut-of-excellence”. In the Jolly case above, that might/should look something like this: “My Life between violent intercourse with Billy Rob and some Lesbian Adventures” by A. Jolly as told to “Your name here”.

“Ghosting” art of any craft and getting paid for it, is on the other hand, still far better than having it bluntly stolen from you, which believe me, happens a lot and perhaps even way more often than ghosting. (For those interested, there is actually a “ghostly” profession, such as what I will term here “idea scouts”. These people make their money by sitting around in cafe’s and/or other places artists tend to frequent (to spend some leisure time and discuss their ideas), grabbing whatever ideas and concepts they can grasp and sell that. That is how far the industry has drifted to satisfy the mainstream’s ever growing, insatiable consumption of the goods they/we produce.)

I am well aware that the biz doesnt work in a right or fair way, but hey, this is a philosopical issue and as artists of any and all crafts, aren’t we all philosophers one way or another?

I loved your input so far, so lets get some more of that! :smiley: