Female Anatomy need Help WIP (nudity)

[Zanrok]

Ok soo ive been working on and off on this model… im trying to do a realistic human female. But right now it hardly looks that way… i need some outside perspectives and some advice as to how to fix whatever i have done wrong…

At the moment i cant pinpoint the issue… Whenever i put hair on the model it doesnt look right at all… and it makes it seem fake… or more male.

I think theres something wrong with the face but i cant pinpoint wat… =(

also i am not happy with the arms… perhaps the gesture or pose is off… anyways… if you could post some advice from these pictures i would appreciate it. Thanks so much!

Maybe its the render quality… or the texture or material…blah i dont know =(

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[Bimm_the_Stone]

Ok, good start,
Here are some pointers,

The arms and (lower)legs are too schort for this model, the hands and feet are too small.

You could make the hips more roundish (and be a bit higher), if that is what you are going for.

The face still needs detailing ofcourse but it looks female to me.

Keep up the work. Good luck

Sometimes you just have to put it away for a little while because you can’t see it anymore

[Wildsketch]

What they told me, and it really helps, is to work from a reference. I suggest going to fineart.sk and look at their samples and free materials. There are some good references there that show proper proportions of models from the front, side and back.

Working from a reference can be a lot quicker than just trying to rely on memory and guesswork.

[Kerwin]

Some good stuff here, Bimm has pointed the key stuff. Besides proportions, I’d be careful with joint placement. The surface anatomy is roughly right, but looking at her shoulders with respect to her trunk, it seems like the center of the shoulder joint is too far out.

The face needs tweaking here and there, but it’s going in the right direction–you should check the angle of manible (jaw) which seems a little low/heavy for a female. Giving her jaw a little more swoop (e.g. chin a little lower, angle of jaw a little higher) might give a more gracile, femaine appearance.

As a check, try vizualizing a skeleton inside your form and ask yourself about it. Another trick you might try is to find a female skeleton in orthographic views (either online or from a book) and get these pictures, along with orthographic pictures of your model into Photoshop (or similar program with layers). Adjust your layer transparency so you can compare the skeleton with your model. Try to do this check once for every two hours of sculpting until you become more practiced. Pretty soon your mental picture of how the skeleton “feels” inside the body should improve, and it will also help you with your proportioning early on.

HTH,
-Kerwin

[Zanrok]

Let me start off by saying thanks soo much for helping me out guys… U know when ur working on something and it just becomes so unnoticeable that ur doing something wrong but u know u are!! lol

anyways
Bimm, thanks for pointing out those problems with proportions… i think ive fixed them? as far as the face … i dont have much polys to work with anymore as ive reached my max amount with zbrush crashing… I made this model from a base mesh in 3dsmax and the base mesh had no detail or edge loops in the face. Maybe you know of a way to add topology on a model? If i could just put some edge loops in near the eyes and lips it woud look a lot better imo.

Wildsketch, I could not agree more… For this model i looked at numerous sources to try and figure out my situation and to try and “guess” where stuff should go and where it belonged. Maybe my problem was i used too many references so it started to morph everytime i worked on it!

Kerwin, I have adjusted the arms a bit… im not sure if that helps the situation or not (shoulders). Tweaking the jaw (mandible) bone was probably the hardest part of this model because everytime i tweaked it something else looked wrong… I think i have reacheda point where it looks as it should?

As far as ur idea, it worked great!! I dont know why i didnt think of that… i downloaded a reference pic and used it in photoshop to compare where the jaw line should end… and how it should connect to the ear… and go on a more downward slope. so again i think i have it right now?

Anyways you three have been very helpful in trying to finish this model… obviously its not done! :o But i think it looks a lot better then it did…

From here i want to try and tweak the model based on whatever suggestions i get from these screens!!

Thanks again Zrbushcentral you all are truely inspiring to work with.

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[Kerwin]

Getting much better. Glad the hint helps.

The tilt of the mandible (jaw) is much better, but you may have overly softened jaw, paticularly the angle of inflection (the angle point of the jaw just below the ear. The jaw tends to drop straight down a little before angling towards the chin as you have it. This creates an oblique corner, a little below the ear. On men this is very pronounced and on women it’s a bit softer (gracile.) To a degree you’ve almost completely elimited that angle point, and you could probably bring it out a little for a more natural jaw line.

The brow/forehead is sloped a little back a little too early which makes her
forehead seem a little small. A bit more forehead (up, not out) without exaggerating her brow might help the face a bit more. (Her hair currently covers this.)

With a large tweak brush and symmetry on, you might play with the distance betweem the eyes just a little–a little closer might be interesting, but be careful that there is roughly 1 eye width between the eyes.

I find it fun to work with a large tweak brush and just subtlely tweak the face a little to see the differences such as shifting the zygomatic bones (cheekbones and outer orb of the eye) a little here and there.

Keep working at her!
-K

[moreHuhn]

your main problem are the masses they do not relate to another best is to step back the subdivisions and get the masses right then catch an anatomic book and look at the bones and muscles and find out where their start and endpoints are that should get you going good luck

[Zanrok]

Kerwin,
Thanks again for ur advice and feedback! I have adjusted the angle a bit more on the jaw to make sure it actually goes down a bit before going its downward slope… the forehead ive made a bit taller or “brought up”… tweaked the eyes put em a little closer to eachother… and made some other minor tweaks.

Morehun,
Indeed i have looked at the anatomy books i have and have tried to match the proportions a little better this time around… the big thing being that i extended the forearms a little and moved the elbow down.

One thing i played with today was adding edge loops to the geometry… at the moment i cant increase the amount of polys without crashing zbrush…

ive also tweaked the hair a bit more… and will continue to do so.

let me know what u guys think and thanks again!

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[system]

Hey there, nice work so far, keep it up. As for crits, I’d say take a look at the shape of the eyes, they look alien, not human. And I think real eyes are set back further in, mor sunken. You need a bit more work on the tear duct area, etc. There doesn’t seem to be too much detail in there yet.

Also, the spot just above the upper lip seems a bit too curvy, might wanna flaten that out a bit maybe? I’m certainly no anatomy expert, and no expert modeler yet for that matter either, these are just things that stick out to me as odd.

Oh, also, the underside of her arm doesn’t touch the side of her chest, and when arms are down, theres always some contact there I believe. I agree with the poster that said to take it down a couple subdivision levels, and get the larger masses right first.

[womball]

She doesn’t appear to have a complete muscular structure. The forearms are too short and lack volume (you might want to look up pictures of the forearm muscles and rough them out, than smooth them out a bit, you do see a lot of the muscles on the forearm if she is thin). The pinky is too far back and too small. The eyes look like fish eyes now. I would suggest making the actual eye a sphere and contouring the eyelids around them. The back anatomy is off so the torso looks a little odd. I think if you enlarge the ribcage area more it may help a bit. The lower legs are too short.

Dial back the resolution and work at lower levels to make these changes.

Do you have any images of a woman your working from?

[Zanrok]

nugjar, Thanks for the crits! I did a little work on the lips and some major changes to the eyes… took me a long time to figure and work them out… i think its better now?

womball, Thanks for the advice! i went over the arms again and tried to add more muscle and volume where it was needed. I didnt even notice the pinky until u said something! :lol:

also changes around the ribcage, lower legs, and tweaked some lil things here and there. As far as the screenshot of a girl/woman i am referencing… i have multiple references… some models on these forums, tutorials, pictures, and some screens on the internet.

Heres some updated screens! keep those crits and suggestions coming!

As always thanks so much for the help!

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[miztli]

Take your hand and touch with open palm to your face. See the size? Yes, more or less of your face - now get back and check on your lady here
As well - hard part - ear… Need lot of work.
And biggest question of all - what the heck happend to her breasts?

Keep it up coming
Ow, eyes seams too close to eachother but hey - there is so many peoples faces that maybe you actually wanted it that way.

[Zanrok]

Miz,
the ear is something i havnt really touched yet… not sure how much more detail i can put into it atm to be honest. the mesh itself was constructed in 3ds max so there is no poly loops around the ears aka no polys =(

The eyes i can change back i noticed that as well… again was tinkering with some feedback some users wrote… shouldnt be that hard to fix.

The breasts im not sure what u mean? possibly more smoothing in the middle? otherwise i dont know what ur asking on those.

and the whole put ur hand to your face thing… im confused are u saying the face is too small or too big? I mean generally speaking if i put my hand to my face its about the same size or close too… so either ur saying i need to decrease the face size… or increase the hand size??

Thanks again for the reply

[YsenGrin]

http://www.zbrush.info/docs/index.php/Tutorial:_Pinup try this tutorial it give a lot of advice and have a pict of the proportion of a lady… It help very much to use reference. The best is to focus first on the props then on the muscle and after the detail… keep going.

[Maxim_fleury]

Hey Zanrok,

Thanks for the advice, I’ll be looking into that today. For your own model I’d say the hands and feet are still too small. I would model the hands at a different angle because as you have them now it is allready an unnatural pose and that makes for difficult modelling. I always find that modelling of anathomy goes best if your model is in a rested position with maybe the arms and legs a bit extended. Maybe go back in subdivisions and work on those proportions some more. You’ll find it goes a lot easier that way.

Keep at it though, it’s getting better every iteration.

Gr. M

[Train22]

hey,
to get an idea of the human structure, and the right proportion for your model, you should take a look at these tutorials on this side: http://inventiontocompletehumanbeing.blogspot.com/

even the first video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFxHEZP_70c ) should be enough for the moment to know, how the human figure is build

Keep it up!

[Zanrok]

did some overhaul work on proportions… hopefully this model looks a lot better and like it should now!

ysen,
i actively try and look and compare mine with that tutorial… good stuff… i actually took one of his screenshots and compared it with mine… seems like im on the right track… thanks for the advice!

maxim,
i have made the hands larger and beefier… i have also bended them slightly to make it seem more natural. ur model is coming along great! thanks for the advice

train,
Thanks so much for linking that video… i Saw his videos for sale a couple months ago when i asked for advice on human anatomy, i chose not to buy them… however, i may look them over again and consider getting them. His introduction was very helpful and a great resource!

Anyways thanks again for all the feedback and advice, these forums truely are a great learning tool. Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated! here are the latest screenshots.

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[Zanrok]

not sure if i made it worse or not… didnt get any feedback on my last set of screenshots… but i did make some minor changes to the facial structure, lower legs and such.

Feedback would be much appreciated as im about to start posing the model

Thanks again!

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[Zanrok]

Been a while since i have posted an update, been working on a bunch of other sutff. Anyways, heres an update for ya. Comments and feedback appreciated as always.

Thanks.