I know it doesn’t look like it but I’ve worked on this head all day. I’m trying to get the eyes right. I always seem to have too big of eyes. Do I need less lids? Smaller slits for the eyes? Less wide? Less high? I’ve been through and looked at every head I could find here and I see what they are supposed to look like, :rolleyes: I just can’t get them to look that way. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. 
Hmmm, or maybe it’s my eyeballs?
Hi: I am no expert so I can’t tell you much, except what I see. I think maybe one of the problems is that the black pupil of the eye is too large (it kind of makes him look stoned) And I think if you put a few eyelashes on both upper & lower lids you would see a big difference.
He really is well done though! Nice work!
The head is great, lids are fine as far as I can tell (not being a model expert in all) Like northstar said the puples are a little big. I’d also try sizing the ball down a bit. Not much just a little,
I think the head and eyesockets themselves are perfectly proportioned and very cleanly modeled. The irises and pupils are a little too large for realism, but the eyeball itself fits just right. Try adding some shading to the outer edges of the eyeball to give it depth…
Like this…
Vikki, you are well on your way. Actually, maybe the iris is a little too big. I think the pupils are just fine. You go ahead and make them whatever size you want. Just not so large that they obscure the color of the iris. A large pupil indicates that the eye is trying to bring in more light because it wants to see something better. If the eyes are looking straight ahead (at the viewer), and the pupils are large, you feel the “warmth” or interest from the image you are looking at.
If you want to keep the eyes looking down, I would close the eyelids a bit. Have someone stand in front of you for reference and have them look down. You’ll see what I mean. If you want they eyes to look straight ahead, well then all you have to do is reverse their direction. A normal relaxed eyelid will cover more of the top of the iris than the bottom.
Here’s a sample:
Notice that they eyelids and lashes create a shadow on the eye (eyelids are actually pretty thick). Also, make sure to add a bit of a soft highlight on the iris opposite the direction of light and darken the area of the iris containing the main highlight. Here’s an example of what I mean, using your image:
I’ve only added shadows and highlights.
Tons of stuff to do with eyes, with just a few rules. So now that you know 'em try them out … then break them. 
(the rules, not the eyes)
Adman
Wow you guys, thanks! Ok well, while you was helping I was still trying to figure it out so here’s what I did and now I’m gonna go back and do it the way you say. I can’t believe those are the same eyes. :eek:
thank you, thank you!
Mwhahaha! Adman! I could kiss you!! 
Ok, now to concentrate on the other things you told me about the eyes! But I can see this works perfectly. Thank you! Thank You!
And thank you Slosh for the great examples. I’ve right clicked to save them for reference.
Vikki,
If you don’t mind an observation from a new guy to Zbrush, if you put a slight indentation in the skin under the eye to give him sort of a “bag” under the eye this would serve to bulge the eye out a little.
I think the plane from his cheekbone to the eye is too smooth. I think this would make a world of difference.
I hope this makes sense. Very good work by the way !
Jim
The Wushu Guy
Here is the final for this head. I was hoping and working towards a teen aged head. With all the dorking around with the eyes I can see from the original images that his head shape has really changed. 
Stonecutter has been helping me with hair and I’ve used his technique on this. I haven’t done his teaching justice so much more practice needed there. Thanks SC!
I mucked around with lighting but did not achieve the results I was looking for.
I tried both ideas from Quicklinks for eyelashes. Lots more working on that needed. I finally ended up painting them on with the simple brush.
Slosh, I saw the tutorial for the eyes like you do but a lot of practice needed there. I always end up getting too much black on the eyeball and not enough in the socket. More practice. I did visit your gallery today just to see more of your artwork. Really terrific stuff there! 
Thanks for all your help!
Vikki, very nice! Your style has a subtlety to it that lends itself well to even the smallest tweaks. You also seem to have a pretty good knowledge of the human face. However, It sounds like you are done with this particular face and are ready to move on to another. If I may, I’ve taken your finished image and tweaked it a bit for head proportion comparisons. I’ve only used the “Liquify” tool in Photoshop to show how close you are to the results I think you’re looking for:
Can’t wait to see your confidence and artwork soar!
Adman
a wonderful progress, Vikkie and very helpful tips, masters!
Adman, yes that is much closer to what I was looking for. I see the differences in your updated image. Thank you very much for that and taking the time to do it!
The nose/cheekbone area appears longer and the chin area shorter… the whole of the portion from the eyes has been drawn down a bit more… and the nose is thinner, the whole facial area is not so flat (not the word I’m looking for), it seems to give the face a narrower much more realistic look. Shoot just adding a little detail like the indent in the back of the hair made a marked difference. Something that I have not tried and it looks like I should is applying a small touch of z-gravity to portions of the face area.
You’ve given me very much inspiration for the next try. I’ve dorked that model so much now that alterations to it were causing more defects than good results. So, I’m going to try it again from scratch.
I also saw something in Quicklinks about the differences in low and high poly meshes and textures/materials if I remember correctly. I think that may be one of the problems with my lighting/texturing so I’m going to go read about that now along with the lighting tutorials.
Confidence? well, some in my family tell me I need to go back to cartoons so, although I see some progress, it’s sometimes a contradiction. However, I’m very stubborn and I will get this along with the rest of the human form…eventually…just going to take lots of hours and hard work AND ignoring the peanut gallery here at home. The help and encouragement I receive at ZBC are one of the driving forces that keeps me working at it.
Most of what I know now of the human face was taught by Grub, Ed and Kurisu and reading Loomis. It’s funny the difference between how my minds eye sees a head and body, and the reality. Kurisu’s profiles in his last posted head was an eye opener.
Thank you again for taking the time!
Always glad to help, Vikki. You were quite successful in getting his age down. Looks like a youngster.
PS: I had many a black eye in practicing as well. I use the highlighter brush set at very low Z, with Alt-key pressed to darken. I know some people use the paintbrush, but I find this works better for me.
A simple way to do it Slosh, is to use the Shading Enhancer set to -10 to -15 range… If you use the dotted alpha, you avoid hard edges this way…
Thanks Slosh and Stonecutter! I’ll try both methods today. I was using the simple brush and I just can’t make it work well.
It seems both ways of creating the shadowing for the eyes works equally well. I only did the top shading but each eye uses your two different techniqes. I may have got it a little dark but either way works well. I love options. Thanks guys!
Hair done with Stonecutters teachings. Eyebrows with the fibre brush. Eyelashes with the simple brush still. And still working on getting that face shape but it’s coming along I can see.
Very nice, Vikki!
You are definitely rockin’ now! I think your progress in both modelling, and painting is amazing, and your work is improving each time you post! 
It’s hard to believe how far you’ve come in such a short time. This guy is really good!