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character anim software

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#1

Hello, ZBrushers!

I am seeking some opinions. I’m looking for decent companion software for ZBrush, especially for character animation. Up until yesterday, I’d been eyeing the workstation version of Messiah. Then I saw sirquadalot’s link to Lightwave’s current deal (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=24450). Now, I am torn. :smiley: I’d love to hear some opinions on these two programs, specifically for the purpose of character animation. (And yes, I did my homework and scoured the web and these forums first. ;))

Just as a little background, I’ve worked with trueSpace, Blender, and Hash:AM. I’m very fond of AM, but it’s extremely frustrating to try to work ZBrush into its workflow (outside of props). I am no expert with any of these programs, though, so I’m not biased toward any particular method yet. I realize LW is more of a jack-of-all-trades app, vs. Messiah’s focus on character animation. I use Wings3D as well, so I do not consider Messiah’s lack of modeling tools an issue.

From what I’ve read, LW and Messiah approach animation very differently. What I don’t understand is, how are they different? I’m not looking for specific details, but rather…the “spirit” of the two apps, I guess you could say.

The most important detail (besides character animation abilities) is that it must get along well with ZBrush. Lack of reliance on purchased third-party plugins is also very important. Fur is a huge bonus, even if I do have to purchase support for it. And lastly, I consider myself a newbie in the animation department, so overly-complicated or bloated software is a turn-off. :wink: Oh, and the price is right for both of them.

Anyhow, I’d greatly appreciate any opinions to help tip me toward one or the other, as I’m pretty well torn right now.

#2

Softimage seems to have a decent app out that might peak your interest.
http://store.softimage.com/store/Products/Details/default.asp?fam=false&ITEMID=201&lang=en I never used it though. Just remember to look for an app that supports sub-pixel displacement. It is so much faster than the standard pre-dividing that Mental Ray or Messiah uses. For the heck of it, you should check out Poser6. It has dynamic hair and cloth simulation plus sub-pixel displacement. They have a decent promo going as well! Good luck with your search!:wink:

#3

Noooo, not another choice! Kidding…I appreciate any info right now. :smiley: Had not really considered anything outside of Messiah or LW yet, but I guess it would be silly not to. The only thing that worries me about tiered products like XSI is whether or not I’d miss what’s missing. (Then again, being something of an animation newbie, how would I know?)

Thanks for the tip on sub-pixel, displacement, too. Research time!

#4

Well, if your new to character animation, your options are actually wide open to you because your not set in one direction for work flow, so anything you try will be new to you, and the learning curve will be similar.

The issue w/ poser is you may have trouble finding people to assist you w/ your troubles. This holds true for Messiah as well.

Lightwave has a following but nothing compared to the userbase it had 8 - 10 years ago.

If your looking purely for character animation, XSI is definately the way to go. I found it difficult to pick up and use but that was because Ive been using 3dstudio and 3dsmax since its early DOS days. So i had to rework my brain into working with a new app. you have the benefit of learning without having to re-think overtop of another applications methods.

XSI is leading in the character animation side. But it is not so nice when it comes to full scene creation. Alot of people I know who use XSI , tend to use either 3dsmax ,zbrush and XSI , or Maya, Zbrush and XSI.

3dsmax/Maya for base modeling and environment modeling , then Zbrush for detailing and then into XSI for skinning and animating.

thats not to say that you couldnt do any of the above in any of these software programs, cuz 3dsmax and maya both have character animation abilities… but they excel in other areas more blatantly then xsi does.

Its really a preference. But you should take the time to consider not only what application will provide you with your desired toolset, but what kind of public support base does each software have to offer.

Us Zbrush users get spoiled by how active and wonderfully helpful the community is. You wont see this type of centered community with most other applications. for online communities willing to help, and tutorial data available, your likely to find the software falls in this order : 3dsmax , Maya, Zbrush , XSI, then others like MODO, Lightwave etc have random part time users trolling forums and the occasional somewhat dead irc channel.

this is my experience anyways,

I use 3dsmax and zbrush myself in a production environment. and Ive toyed with XSI and maya. But Not enough to purchase them for my own use at this point.

I quite like 3dsmax’s character animation tools, I use a plugin called Character Animation Toolkit, and it has been a wonderful addition to my plugin set for 3dsmax. Its like character studio without the limitations of their native skeleton setups.

Both forward and inverse kinetics can be setup quite easily w/ this plugin.

3dsmax has an awsome online community, but of course , none so friendly and wise as y’all here at Zbrushcentral :slight_smile:

#5

I beg to differ. Poser has possibly the most active and helpful user base for any 3d app. There are dozens of large community sites (Daz, Renderosity, Runtime DNA and PoserPros especially), and many hundreds of smaller ones. The limitations inherent in versions 4 to 6 of Poser have forced users to be resourceful, and the fact that most file formats used in Poser can be edited as text files encourages experimentation. Those with the most in-depth knowledge often give their time and expertise on the various boards to help the newbie and experienced user both. There are plenty of reasons for prefering other apps to Poser, especially for animation … but user support ain’t one of them.

#6

Check out Cinema 4D. That has an affordable Hair Module and animation capabilities. If you add 250$ for a animation support package you have a solution which is more comfortable than other large packages right out of the box…

Cheers
Lemo

#7

The issue with poser is you might get laughed at in certain cg forums :smiley:

#8

Ah, but why would you want to hang out in a forum where misplaced software snobbery exists? Poser’s just a tool, and it’s introduced many thousands to the challenge and joy of 3d. Including me. :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

#9

LightWave is the best bang for the buck, right now. Hands down. And I am an avid Cinema 4D user. If I wasn’t, I would be a full-time LightWave user right now.

I’ve been beta-testing LW 9 and I’'m impressed. It looks like they have recovered from their loss of their former ‘brain-trust’.

Cinema costs more for the same features, but I really prefer it’s workflow.

As a Hash user, LW has similar spline-patch tools. And the animation envelopes are similar to Hash’s method. LW may be the easiest migration, or, as previously mentioned above, XSI. But XSI will cost more in the long run.

FWIW, C4D ‘owns’ the Architecture Rendering, Motion Graphics, Design and Illustration markets, LightWave ‘owns’ television, Max ‘owns’ games, and Maya ‘owns’ the film industry. With XSI close on it’s heels.

If you want to see Lightwave’s references just catch an episode of BattleStar Galactica (the new series, not the old p.o.s.).

:wink: