Think of it this way Plakkie…you have a piece of furniture you wish to get from Haaksbergen to Utrecht. If you find a truck going from Enschede to Amsterdam and “backload” the small piece it will be cheaper than paying for it as a single job. :lol:
Thanks Shhark, me personally, I’ve never seen a printing machine, let alone have had something printed. There are so many choices and techniques that it can be quite daunting. I’d welcome all info that would make it easier to understand. Make this thread something for experts ánd laymen. 
Pride, I actually understood that! Thinking cheap is what’s Holland’s all about. 
Well, so you all have some more information, I went out and visited with Josh, and had a tour of his facility.
He has a very nice shop, very clean and professional. Josh was more than willing to hang out and answer any questions we had. The variety and quality of the work he produces is exceptional. From small toys, to large custom pieces for some pretty big names in all fields (don’t know if he wants to blow his own horn, so I’ll keep names to myself).
Now, the photos he posted don’t do justice to the quality and resolution of the parts. The smallest demo soldier he showed us, while it had some issues here and there held an amazing amout of detail. You can see the seam where the glove meets the hand.
The demo head was suprisinginly detailed at such a small size.While the head itself seems small, if you think of a proportional body included with the head, you realize that for most print jobs of a character, this size should be enough.
The larger dinosaur head (the blueish colored one) was amazing. The teeth were all very sharp and pointy, and there were even very small gaps between some of the teeth. The detail on the skin was fantastic, down to individual pebbles and scales. A proportional full body on the dino would easily be one of the largest dinosaur toys in my boys’ collection.
We were very impressed with the shop, Josh’s willingness to take the time and answer questions, not to mention the quality of the parts.
Now all we need to do is figure out what to have printed 
Thanks for to plug Mike- truly appreciated!
It was my pleasure to show you guys what we do. Looking forward to working with you.
Hey Plakkie-
Here’s an image of how Objet’s Polyjet printing process fundamentally works. I’ll post a movie on our website soon for a better demonstration.
-Still working on the group build but will post details soon.
I forgot… at the end of this thread http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=28866&page=14&pp=15 you can find a sample of Pride’s and my work.
Cheers
Rainer
hi to all this is my 1st post. tx for this great soft
I’m working on RP an archeological area in ITaly near Milan / Mediolanum
photogrammetry for mesh and photo for reference.
esported in obj format.
now we are working on cleaning the mesh.
Then i will pass in a zprint.
http://picasaweb.google.it/algosuk/Lavello2007?authkey=PXcyPgJkbKo
bye!
Shhark, thanks for the picture, I can understand those. 
I also had a look on your (companies) website. Very nice, good information too. Keep the thread alive!
I just got a contact to cast models in Iron… Sand Cast. I’ll mill a nice head on the weekend and have it cast as paper weight. I’ll post an update of how things evolve.
Rainer
Hello Shark, and fellow artisians!
I am a VoTech instructor and recently set up the dream lab (25 seats) that I wanted, including site licenses for volumes of variable software (Maya, ZBrush, BodyPaint, Adobe Creative Suite, Corel All products, Avid Composer etc… ) and Hardware, lets just say that I am well satisfied.
I have been following the thread and am interested in this process. I spoke with my director about investing in the hardware for 3d printing and she said lets do it. However, since I set a record in my district for Tech purchases, I am tapped out for this fiscal year and will be intersted in more resources and information for this coming fall.
I am calling on your enthusiastic minds to give me some networking that may facillitate my ambition. Who knows, since I am a Tribal Member as well as my wife---- My tribe may consider an investment ( they just shelled out $600 Mill) for a coal plant. If you are so inclined drop me a line and lets discuss options. Serious minds make serious moves! Talk is nice but dollars are better!
Hello Shark, and fellow artisians!
I am a VoTech instructor and recently set up the dream lab (25 seats) that I wanted, including site licenses for volumes of variable software (Maya, ZBrush, BodyPaint, Adobe Creative Suite, Corel All products, Avid Composer etc… ) and Hardware, lets just say that I am well satisfied.
I have been following the thread and am interested in this process. I spoke with my director about investing in the hardware for 3d printing and she said lets do it. However, since I set a record in my district for Tech purchases, I am tapped out for this fiscal year and will be intersted in more resources and information for this coming fall.
I am calling on your enthusiastic minds to give me some networking that may facillitate my ambition. Who knows, since I am a Tribal Member as well as my wife---- My tribe may consider an investment ( they just shelled out $600 Mill) for a coal plant. If you are so inclined drop me a line and lets discuss options. Serious minds make serious moves! Talk is nice but dollars are better!
This is better sorry for the black
I see that you are also very interested in 3d printing - I think it’s the way of the future.
What kind of people are you looking for?
What kind of projects do you have in mind?
I’m not speaking for myself, but I’m just curious.
I’ve always been interested in the native american consciousness and it’s ecological understanding of the earth. Through my own work, I hope I can express some of the sentiments of respect and admiration towards nature.
I’ve done a print myself already and some day I hope to mass produce it cheaply to make it available for people of low-income in Mexico or other countries. The main thing is to express feelings of respect towards nature through the crazy zbrush art that we’ve all come to love!!!
I don’t know exactly what you are looking for, but If you are looking for artists, I am willing to make myself available.
Here is my previous post, showing off my prototype:
http://209.132.96.165/zbc/showpost.php?p=382188&postcount=81
cool
I’m a votech instructor also by day. and a college professor by night.
Had Zbrush in my CTE lab for a good 4 yrs or more now.
Students love it
It’s VERY expensive. Well at least it youst to be. They might have a site license now. But at the time they did not.
What I did was grew the program per year to keep costs down. I have 20 students but not all of them are 3d Modelers.
So I got roughly 2 or 3 copies per year for the duration.
What state are you in?
I’m in Michigan so we have a thing called a CIP code.
You are going to have to convince your director of what CIP code it falls in.
I placed mine under graphic design;) Since that’s what my certificate is in.
Also check with your ISD in the area for a Grant writer.
They work wonders in CTE for special stuff like you are doing.
I use my videos in the first link in my signature as my curiciulm for the CTE class. If you have any questions just private msg me.
I agree it’s the future and welcome the advantages, but your comment suggests an observation…
Before 3D, I was creating for the sign business. XY-axis machines, not unlike CNC, that work in vinyl, foam and other plastics are similar in one respect-- they produce chaff. I am stunned at the amount of unrecyclable waste created by the sign cutting industry, and shudder to think of the range of compounds that will be discarded through the 3D print industry.
I agree that Native American consciousness is in a unique position to add enlightened methods. MedicineHorse7, as your dream lab comes true, please figure out a way to completely close-- even profit from-- the stream of waste plastics or they may eventually lower your Nation’s standard of living, as they have elsewhere. I live in Los Angeles County, where the EPA once ruled our city pay ongoing millions to build, staff and monitor facilities to correct HazMat compounds pluming through our water tables from decades of unmonitored discards by big business (aircraft and related). Litigation with neighboring cities was intense. I expect many more such sites in the future from other industries.
Hewlett-Packard is on a promising track in this closed-loop aspect:
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS148039+30-Jan-2008+BW20080130
For my experiments the 3 and 4 axis cnc mill is fantastic. I mill my pattern into wood, then use that to make a form out of sand, then cast it in aluminium. When i don’t like the result, back into the scrap it goes and it will be remelted.
The amount of energy used to melt the aluminium is small. I use a camping propane gas tank for about 6-7 gallons of molten aluminium. That’s a lot of sessions… No waste. No plastics. And cool looking stuff.
Both are my first experiments at the time. Just to show what you can expect to get at the start of the learning curve. Since then my results exceed even my own expectations after a year of experiments. Just to show that you can really achieve great results for less than 3000$, safe, environmentally conscious, and still utilizing all the basics, backgrounds, and technologies involved with any rapid prototyping related technology. And maybe make that repair part for that cool 50’s toaster…
I made a little collaboration part together with Meats Meier and will document the making of that more detailed. Actually… he has not seen his result yet either 8))))).
Zbrush is a fantastic tool for this kind of endeavor as the orthographic way to work is catering directly towards a 3 Axis machine. One can take a depth grab of the artwork on screen and have it milled straight away.
Cheers
Rainer
PS:Both models… as you might have guessed… made with Zbrush!
Attachments
You are so right on.
The whole techonological necessities of the modern artist (or those into the digital medium) has always been a shadow lurking over me.
In fact, the production of toys has probably got to be some of the most wasteful endeavors of the plastics industry - since in a way, you are creating something ‘useless’.
If I ever find myself in the position to produce action figures, I’d try to get my plastics from recycled PET, and I wonder if that’s possible. In a way I’m not too concerned about the quality of the plastics on the toys - more so the look and the ‘message’ they put across.
IT IS very interesting and sad how much toxic waste is produced in the creation of any of our technological tools and the production of plastic based products. Here’s a very interesting website:
http://www.storyofstuff.com/
Everyday I think about how many contradictions occur once one starts to adopt more ecological ideas, but still take part in industrial-based technologies that hurt the earth.
My “apologetic” opinion is that no matter what we do as conscious artists, the industries and the plastics are here to stay. There is just no stopping this machine; so if we can at least use it in a positive way- in a way that will not perpetuate stereotypes and will have deeper meanings - then we are doing something that could potentially change the way people think in the future. You know as they say; “fight fire with fire”.
Your figures are awesome. I am glad somebody is actually concerned about the wastes of this endeavor. I wonder, what you think, about doing something massively? What do you think would be clean choices?
thanks for the reply
-Dread
Awesome link! And yes, there are many other ways. Instead of buying 20 bearing blocks today for about 600$, typical made in China crap, I cast them myself for the cost of some gas and a few old aluminium storm doors. And they do not look ghetto at all 8). Cost… maybe 50$… and lot’s of fun making them… more people should get out of the consumption only paralysis.
R
Hi Medecinehorse7,
I PM’d you. Give me a call to discuss.
Thanks, you SShark, I hope you got my email, I’ll keep trying to connect. You serve as a mentor in many respects yet are unaware of that to be sure. This is a very fruitful thread that I am sure will grow and grow.
Jason, Wow it seems we are very similar in our professional circles. I teach Film and Graphic arts 9-12, and am looking for another source of income in addition to my day job. I have used your technics in the past and had some of my students do some projects for Half Lfe and some Mods for Doom. Thank you very much as I am doing tutorials myself and it can be a painful process.
As far as expense goes in Arizona we have grant for our district and Wow did I use it. the CIP codes I am using pertain to Animation and related work services. Since we are so rural we have virtualy no Industry partners, and have to make work for ourselves.
Hello Dread,
I am a ceremonial leader from the FT Peck reservation, and 1 of very few that can speak Dakota. My wife and I run ceremonies for people here on the Navajo Rez and we have 3 girls enrolled here as well. I appreciate the sentiment of respect from you and return it as well.
Davinci,
My tribe has an industrial complex in Montana and have retooled several times in the past. I am close to the counsel and have inside knowledge of what turns their ears to economic development as well. I have Ideas for large plastics recycling projects, I’ll see what may come
Lemonnado,
Do you have any suggestions that i may forward to our woodshop personnel about your CNC experiances I.E.(equipment, software etc…)
DAVINCI - Sorry, I replied to another person based on the comment you had made but I hope you have read my earlier reply.
I am so glad people are starting to join in on this forum discussing these issues!!! A very dear friend of mine is a dedicated student that has taken on great projects that involve raising awareness on PET recycling in Mexico. If people living in the US sometimes are mad at the amount of unrecycled PET, you guys should look at the Mexican numbers… it’s just jaw-dropping. In fact, it is safe to say that less than 10% of the plastics that are thrown away in Mexico make it to a recycling center - the rest go to landfills and well, the landscape. If you speak spanish, you are at an advantage, but if not, at least look at the pretty pictures:
http://eecologico.blogspot.com/ (I made that little doggie character, called “Pinto”. He aides in power point presentations, he has 3 idle animations for 3 different emotions. The kids love him!)
She’s doing a great job at raising awareness where it matters; in young kids at school, hungry for knowledge of this world!
Right now I am very interested in producing a toy myself, but I don’t know if I want to go the Chinese way. Even though I’ve contacted a company and they are very very helpful and patient (and will probably do exactly what I want) I don’t know if the environmental repercussions are worth it. It’d be hypocritical to make something ‘eco’ and in the process, trash a chunk of the earth.
Medicine Horse: You talk about a plastics recycling facility. What kind of plastics do you recycle and how much do you actually make ‘from scratch’? What is the possibility of creating toys from the recycled plastic? Is all plastic fair game? (bags, packages, bottles, old tupper ware, etc)? Sorry if I’m asking too much but this is too exciting for me!!!
thank you all
Hey Everybody-
After much figuring & debate, I have put together a subscription package for those who have limited requirements on size & lead time. Basically, if your print requirements fit within certain dimensions & you can wait for up to 4 weeks for delivery you can save up to 60% off the single part market price. Check our website www.pardev.comor contact me for more details. I am willing to offer 50% off intorductory build for one time only to anyone interested in trying it. Contact me off board for slot pricing. For this to work I’ll have to get quite a few people to do it so I can fill up a tray, but I hesitate to put up a post publicizing it for fear of it being percieved as “advertising”. Any moderators out there care to offer their opinions on putting up such a post or if there is an appropriate way to offer this to everyone on ZB?
Cheers-