ZBrushCentral

A question about this community itself...

Community
#1

Hi all,

<stepping on soapbox>

Okay, I am fairly new here, so forgive me if this question is off-base. Also, I figured this forum would be best suited for this type of question. Please correct me if I am wrong on either point (and please move this posting if necessary).

While ZBC is a wonderful resource, I am seeing that the community is somewhat “less than supportive” to those new artists who post their work for C&C. Granted, some of these WIPs are…ahem…rough (probably mine uncluded), but I assumed that the vast network of VERY talented artists out there would at least take a few moments to crit and help out noobs, instead of just viewing their work and keeping their helpful opinions silent. We budding artists need (and VERY much appreciate) guidance from you experts.

I’m not talking about technical questions, only stuff submitted back in the Main forum.

I’m also not whining…and I’m old enough to have thick skin when it comes to criticism. But when I see someone post their work, I will (and do) try my best to give helpful, constructive advice (and encouragement) instead of saying nothing at all. In the early stages of learning ZBrush, it is important to support these new users. In my humble opinion, the world needs more artists.

<stepping off soapbox>

Thanks for listening and again, this isn’t meant to be rude or as an attack, I just would like to see more positive feedback and encouragement towards ALL ZB users in this fantastic forum. Thanks everyone.

<head back down and sculpting again>

#2

It’s odd because I prefer to say nothing at all. I’ve come to the conclusion that criticsm isn’t very nice, regardless of whether it’s “constructive” or not.

If anything there’s far too much criticism on these forums. It annoys me to see somebody nitpicking over small details. I personally don’t strive for perfection. I just like to get to the point. I’m fully aware of all the faults in my work.

Having said all that - it’s clear that some people don’t mind criticism as they often start their posts with “c&c welcome”.

#3

There is far to little critisism.

The problem is tho… sooo many people mash arround
on some zsphere base and post it directly.
I wont comment on these works period.
The most important thing someone must show is dedication and a will to
critisize himself. If its just a 20 minute doodle that looks like crap
you just have to see it on your own or you wont have any kind of future
as an artist. You have to want to do what you do and it shouldnt be driven
by how much comments you get.

Its like in real life.
You get pushed on your bike for a short distance these are all the free
tutorials on zbrush on the internet. Then you have to learn how to
drive on your own and drive your first circles.
Then youre good enough for the cool old kids to show u some gnarly tricks.

My first post here looked rediculous and still i have improved greatly even
with no crits given in that specific post.

If you show the will to work and improve yourself others will honor that
by giving comments on how it can even get better.
You should also comment on other works. And i dont mean “wow awesome”
comments. These are necesary sometimes but should not be your only
interaction with the forum community. Help people that are on your own
level. Put a signature linking to your thread into your profile.
This way the persons you helped will maybe come to your thread and help you.

#4

The ability to take constructive criticism is fundamental if your career is in commercial art, be it graphic design for cereal boxes or character design for video games. Once I stopped taking offense at people’s suggestions, and started looking at it as an opportunity to improve my work, I began to look forward to critique.

As for getting feedback, you’re right, most of the comments go to the people who are really good. But if you look at the quality of those comments from a constructive viewpoint, they don’t have much meat on their bones.

Awesome work!

I’m your biggest fan! :+1: :+1: :+1: :+1:

Wowy wow wow :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing:

And I have to admit, I’m just as guilty of popping in quickly to congratulate someone on doing nice work, even if I don’t have something constructive to say. Maybe I shouldn’t, I don’t know.

If your work isn’t very good (I haven’t seen your work so I don’t know), then that means you’re probably struggling with the same sorts of things that LOADS of others before you have struggled with. Everything from ZBrush learning curve, to anatomy knowlege base, to general sculpting techniques. The point being, most of those issues have been addressed many, many times in the past. People get tired of explaining the same things over and over again, especially when they know that the answers you seek to help you push your work to the next level is just a search away.

I know what I’m good and and what I suck at, it’s just being self aware and we all have it. If I suck at something, I research the hell out of it. I’ll spend hours sleuthing it. Then I’ll spend even more hours working on it using what I learned from my research. It’s all about being tenacious, and not waiting on someone else to hold your hand.

If you’re having difficulty seeing the problems with your own work becuase you’re too close to it, then try having multiple projects that you can jump between. It gives you an opportunity to set certain pieces aside and come back to them later with a more objective eye.

db

#5

You both make good points, but I was speaking strictly of advice/encouragement in areas where we “know something needs work, but not sure why”. That is when the veterans can be helpful, but sometimes don’t take the time to “educate” us poor slobs.

Whether I personally get the “cool sculpt, keep going” is incidental. It will not deter me from continuing my education/evolution as an artist. I am simply looking for constructive stuff.

BTW - Disco Stu, I love your Anton sculpt. He is, by far, one of the most evil antagonists in the movies and I think you have captured him very well.

#6

Well you should maybe try to post in the questions and troubleshooting
subforum. I had the feeling there are some people that know much and help
that only check in there.

Normally when i see questions related to usage of zbrush features i reply if
i know the answer or link to the tutorials.
Sometimes i only type “google.com” when someone asks how to do certain
things if i sense its just asked out of lazyness and you know he didnt even
look himself. If someone has already done the tutorials and has more specific
questions its easier to help cause he doesnt ask “how do i retopologize”
he asks “how can i do this and that when retopologising”.
Theres more of an communication base there when people know the basics
and tried to help themselves first.

It can of course happen that threads just dont get seen or just by people
that arent in the mood to help out. You should consider having
multiple forums and threads as everyone has different people in it
and someone helpfull is more likely to find as you have more exposure to
3d geeks :smiley: :+1:

Thanks for the compliment i started sculpting on him again yesterday
working on sculpting hairs and its a mayor pain in the ass.
I could also use some tipps and help but i didnt really find anything good. :stuck_out_tongue:

#7

No, I hear what you’re saying. It’s not that you’re asking questions and not getting answers, it’s that you’re posting work and not getting feedback. Well, if you sense that your work is lacking in some aspect, try asking specific questions when you post your work.

“Hi folks, this is my depiction of the Incredible Hulk fighting a T-Rex. They are both wearing WOW-style armor with ram’s skulls on the shoulder. Aren’t I original? I’m really struggling with polypainting the dinosaur. I’ve done a good deal of research on my own, but any tips or links on the subject would be greatly appreciated.”

Best of luck to you!

db

#8

It’s pretty valuable, but at the same time if something has flaws you can already identify then there’s no point in asking for someone else’s help yet.

It was a pretty interesting experience to make my first character here and I got a ton of help and all the comments were very supportive and helpful, but it was over a month before I had anything worth even asking for a critique on (and even then it still needed serious work).

I’ve seen a few people randomly act like jerks and there are some bitter complainers when it comes to zbrush itself but mostly the community seems to be pretty helpful and nice. At the same time though, people don’t have unlimited time to do c+c, either. Especially the well known guys who are probably spending most of their time fulfilling contracts on tight deadlines.

#9

Hopefully this doesn’t come off as rude (it’s not meant to be), but I think you have it backwards. This community is very supportive- almost to the point of deluding people who are heading in the wrong direction.

There is far too much ‘ass patting’ happening on these forums, where very bad sculpts aren’t getting proper crits, just “looks great, keep it up!”. The problem is, people have a tendency to post whatever their first WIP is, regardless of how bad it might be. There’s a line you have to draw about where to crit and where to just ignore the post, unless I see someone actually struggling to get better I’ll usually just ignore it. It’s hard to crit somebody’s doodle…

#10

I agree with Eldee. I remember my first drawing class having to take all my work and tape it up on the wall. Each person in the group was than instructed to tell me what they thought worked and did not work. I called it the “Spirit Crusher”. But man did I improve after a few rounds of that. This was the best preperation I had for production work, where clients and art directors expect that you take criticism often and well.

I think even the “guru’s” on here get a free pass sometimes. All critiques should contain both the negative and the positive.

I also wish people would stop calling posts “My first sculpt” which might as well be called “take it easy on me I m new”. Post confidently expecting both negative and positive reactions to your work. An experience I look forward to once I have some work worth the communities time.

All in all I think this forum is a quite useful and is probably the best of its kind. But could improve in many areas.

Cheers,
Matt

#11

I have experienced this problem in the past. I am not really looknig for a pat on the back most of the time, I am actually looking from someone to tell me what they think is good and more importantly needs improved.

I have said before though, things would be better if there was a clear WIP or Beginners part of the forum as many of the members here are VERY experienced and skilled experts, and I would expect them not to take too much time. There are however, a lot of experienced people who could add their comments on a model as it is being developed.

Just my opinion, but there you go.

#12

Well, I think a lot of people are going for that to be honest. That’s not really what I meant, though, and there is a difference in reaction between when you actively ask ‘what’s wrong with this’ and when you post it without commenting. Some people don’t take crits too well, and there are some idiots who do say some stupid stuff from time to time that’s not at all helpful.

I think a lot of the stuff that doesn’t get much critique it’s just because people don’t know what to say. I can see flaws in things when I know what’s intended like if it’s supposed to be a portrait, but if someone’s doing a character scene that’s anime style it can be a lot tougher. Usually when something gets to a high level of detail there’s not a lot of obvious flaws…if it falls flat, it’s because it’s mediocre or just not inspired enough, not because it has something wrong.