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ZBrush Artworks
#8

yes but we are talking about cinematic illidan, not wow-lowpoly illidan.

http://bestgamewallpapers.com/files/warcraft-3-the-frozen-throne/illidan-stormrage.jpg

I love the blizzard artwork, not the low-poly stuff in-game.
So what follows is my personal opinion and I don’t care about the choices
they may have made for the in-game stuff.

Even if his ears are like goofy’s in the game, I don’t really find
them cool and I showed you who has the same ears (Nosferatu).

Now if you tell me this is because he has grown old (since I see no
other reason for his ears to fall like this, nor do they do justice to a cool character like Illidan, Scooby-Doo maybe)

You can say he is an old bat (as an excuse), but he could also be an old majestic bat without droopy ears, maybe more hair and a broken horn, but not like Nosferatu. So not the best way to show Illidan as old .

There is no wrinkled skin, but we should make droopy ears to show he is old? Does that make sense? Does it sound cool?

Do you think a character like Illidan would grow old and what would happen to him would be droopy ears? I don’t think so, quite the opposite, since he can’t see, ears would always be pointy as to point out he is still sharp (like when you see an old man’s eyes and they are still bright) a beard would also add to the effect and have you seen Clint Eastwood, that’s how a powerful man looks when he is old, not like Nosferatu (classic, but not the best design)

Finally a beard and battle-torn horns show a lot more coolness than droopy ears, unless you are going for the old bat comic effect. You can still be old and muscular, yet all I see is droopy ears. So I can’t see what makes the droopy ears stick with this character (he is not old - well he is, but he is not wrinkled)

This is not a fan critique, this is an artistic critique based on my opinion of who Illidan is and what he should look like as a demon.

So if he was trying to make Illidan look old with those droopy ears I think he could do better and if he is making Illidan as we can see him in the cinematics the droopy ears should go, see Nosferatu (lame).

This brings us to the conclusion, either old or young Illidan and droopy
ears don’t go together, no matter what you say.

As I said the rest looks great!

#9

edited

#10

oh yes it is my opinion, but you must understand that sometimes one opinion is better than an other

http://www.freewebs.com/branshomepage/hp2cs_331Dobby.jpg

look who else has this type of ears.

I also showed you the still from the cinematic, in which his ears are pointy.
http://bestgamewallpapers.com/files…n-stormrage.jpg

sometimes you have to see that somebody else might actually have more
valid points and an actual reasoning behind his opinion, than just: I say they are fine.

BTW the artist is part of the http://www.sonsofthestorm.com/ which is a group of Blizzard concept artists started by the main guy - Samwise.

Just saying wow and not actually making comments that might help the artist is actually hurtful to his progress and his journey to full potential.

If I have so many examples of why it is not cool to have droopy ears on a bad-ass demon it means that he is better off with no droopy ears. So why put down a valid critique as just another opinion? I am an experienced artist and I would like this kind of critique instead of: it looks fine to me.
Basically stating that your praise and my example based critique are equal you are insulting me. Praise is easy, valid thought out critique (with links to examples) requires effort.

I don’t know what your involvement with art is (professional, hobby etc) but if you do not seek out critique and only want praise then why post a WIP. This guy obviously wants critique (since he posted a WIP) and I gave it to him, I also gave him examples as to why my opinion/critique is valid.
My post had a purpose.

Thanks but please don’t continue with posts of the: it’s your opinion type, I have made my point and you have made yours, let the artist choose which comments he finds useful and what he will do with them.

#11

edited

#12

Edit: Tartan edited his posts, since he thinks that we have taken over your thread.

I, on the other hand, firmly believe that constructive criticism is what helps an artist evolve and make the best work possible. My input was based on that and I hope the various examples I provided help you in your path. Even if they prove worthless though I am content in the knowledge that when you put your work out there (for C&C) I posted to give you honest critique as I expect you to do. Praise is nice, but seeing something that can be improved and not mentioning it would be dishonest. I learned most of the stuff I know on 3D through the internet, it is only logical that I should do the same.

If somebody saw a flaw in my work (or thought he saw a flaw) and had examples to back his thoughts and posted just: Great! and I later found out that he did see ways of improvement I would consider him dishonest.

This a reply to the whole: WOW!, Great!, Amazing! type of threads that fill up forums like this, that’s why we have stars people.

@Tartan:

Of course my example based critique/opinion is better than your praise. It had examples, points and thought. Links to images and references. What did your praise contribute?

If you can't see that I can't argue with you, you are obviously not yet ready to understand the difference. Maybe you should spend some time to understand the difference instead of saying they are equal. Just a thought. Not all opinions are equal, if that was true then you wouldn't have art directors etc. It is obvious that sometimes one opinion is better than another because it consists of points/arguments/experience. You wouldn't trust a weather man's opinion over a mechanic's if you were fixing a car, so opinions are not equal (both of them have one, the mechanic has the expertise, same goes for junior mechanic vs senior etc)

I only told you not to reply to me with these types of responces, if you have anything constructive to say, a thought based on some argument/point/example you are free to reply to me. You can post whatever you like, just don’t address it to me.

Of course my plea was ignored. I am not interested in your thoughtless comments - I am only interested in ones that involve some idea or some kind of brain activity other than: that’s what you think.

Instead you replied that I bash you and that opinions are equal and then throw in a half thought idea: bashed both of his ears in battle! symmetrically?, yeah right! I have looked up examples and posted pictures, please do not insult my intelligence with this stuff.

I don’t even understand how you can say what you are saying. What’s the point when you have put in no effort? If you can’t put any effort into your posts why post them? Just to be there?

Please don’t continue, unless you have something worthy of conversation.

Of course I have to explain, you can post whatever you like, just don’t involve me and my opinions in it (unless you have an example/argument/point etc in which case I will be happy to answer).

Thank you.

#13

i like these types of discussions, im a wow freak and had to stop playing to pursue my 3d art career.

But i think both arguments are valid.

The stylized version of illidan (in deep purple) is a version i can go towards once he’s done. In fact that image was the sole purpose of buying the zbrush program!

I wanted to recreate that illidan. But on that note, i wanted the foundation to be strong in comparison to the cinematic.

:slight_smile:

#14

Hi g0ll4m,

you may have not read the whole thing, but I want to just point out that my opinion is that in both the cinematic and concept art versions I posted Illidan has pointy ears. The reason is simple droopy ears don’t seem cool or mean (have you seen a doberman with it’s natural ears? I bet if you did you would know what I mean). See the pictures of Nosferatu and Dobby I posted, both have these bent ears and they are both funny/strange/whatever, but they are not mean bad ass demons.

Sorry for taking over your thread, but it was honest feedback and I think a model at this stage deserves the correct ears.

Good luck with finishing it off.

Cheers

Koyima

#15

i totally got you on the ears, i agree and going to fix them. I think you’re right about him being aware all the time since he lost his sight.

#16

I love the wings man…good stuff!

#17

His is looking bad-a$$. Nice progress on the texturing/coloring

#18

Koyima,

If you are indeed as experienced as you say you are…you should know that the little differences make something special…

You say you should never have goofy things on a badass looking character?
Sometimes it’s the goofy things that make m look badass in the first place.

If you can’t make an exception to some rules every character would come out the same…

one more thing: Your opinion and judgement is not better than somebody elses…ever

#19

@Slice:
again the same stuff… you don’t understand the difference between a comment with explanation and a comment without any, that’s your problem. If everybody’s opinion had the same value then there wouldn’t be room for art directors.

I don’t say I’m good, look through my posts, I say my opinion is valid because of the examples I provided and compared to a praise comment. Thus better.
I don’t know which world you live in, but yes I have news for you: decisions are made and the best option/opinion is based on facts, examples, experience etc and when one is selected over the other it is the better option/opinion.

He is also re-creating an existing character. Part of this character is the fact that he is a demon, a cool demon. If you think Jar-Jar Binks is cool or that Illidan should look like Jar Jar that is your opinion and you can go ahead and make him like that. I don’t think goll4m wants his Illidan to look like Jar Jar, so I pointed out what I think is wrong (apparently he agreed with me and fixed, if you missed that).

Obviously my opinion was valued by goll4m and he followed it. Although Tartan said it is fine, he changed the model based on my observation, which means that to him my opinion/suggestion was better, at least ion this one instance, which invalidates your last sentence.

Please leave me alone now.

@Goll4m: sorry for this, as I said Great progress on texturing and ears seem fixed from the angle you posted so cool Illidan is back and ready to tear some stuff apart.

#20

Your opinion and judgement is not better than somebody elses…ever

#21

No backshots? Good stuff, though. If you rendered him out you could probably make top row. :slight_smile:

#22

@Slice: I am not an opinion… (you’re = you are)

KillahPriest: I agree with KillahPriest, do you use any other software goll4m?

#23

great likeness! good job! :+1:

#24

Awesome rendering of Illidan, new character looks great.

goll4m do you use other software except zbrush

#25

i also use maya and photoshop

#26

so are you using mental ray and fast sss?

#27

yes