<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Actually in Wings hotkeys are as easy as trueSpace. simplely highlight in the menu, press [Insert] then press key. [Delete] while highlighting to remove. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
(Polaris, Jumps up on his desk and dose an Irish Jigg…)
That totaly rocks!
Thanks GameMaster 
Ignore my other post everyone
silo is still driving me nuts, like I can’t figure out how to select without selecting backfaces and stupid things like that 
I think it would take awhile to hammer all this into my brain
ok - it looks easy to setup though so I’ll try setting up customly as you guys have suggested
I decided to install the Learning edition of Silo to see what all the hype is. As a partner for zbrush, based on 1st impressions, Wings3D beats Silo. Of course this is just an opinion, but i’ll explain also. (keep in mind the below is based on first impressions, and I know enough other apps, to know what’s hot)
I’ll start with what I like about Silo. the customization is great. Probably it’s greatest feature. Iso-lines are awesome in any package, including this one.
now Wings. Selection is the best feature of all in Wings. you get named selection sets, and switching selection types converts your last to current. (selected edges, converts to face sectlection or other) Even edge loops are cooler, you can goto the next loop, and back. other selections types can grow and shrink. soft selections (refered to as magnets) have options to determine what shape soft selection takes, and is easier to control.
other things I like, camera can be instantly moved around without keyboard combos. The face lift feature and Tweak mode (unrestricted, quick editing) are totally cool. plenty of tools for vertex manipulation, including bevel, normal movement, and deformations. Texture mapping can be automatic, or done just like 3d copy in zbrush. The UV editor can break up your model as you like, just like costly UV mappers.
Overall first impressions of both software is very good, for thier cost. Silo is more like a full solution to 3d. Wings is more of a partner to other apps. It does anything you need for polygons. The direction Wings is headed, iso lines are around the corner, which will make the difference even less. If you are familar with modeling already and have other tools, Wings is the best choice. It’s easier to work with, and just so fast. If you have no other tools, Silo would be better. It way more complete, but doesn’t realy offer much that the more costly apps don’t have. Wings is not a complete package, but offers so many polygonal features, that I was shocked that this thing is free, cross-platform, and open source.
for Zbrush, I’d have to go with Wings. currently you can preview or render higher sub-d levels, and offers UV mapping features that zbrush doesn’t have. Zbrush needs a partner that can create simple polygons, and custom UV mapping. Wings delivers this perfectly.
Remember that Silo is in its early stages. And adding features rapidly. A true comparison won’t be possible until later.
Alan.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Remember that Silo is in its early stages. And adding features rapidly. A true comparison won’t be possible until later. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think it’s fair to compare. Silo isn’t beta, it’s 1.22 already, with a demo version also. Wings isn’t even 1.0 yet, it’s 0.98. The fact that they are both not in beta, and both ready to use, make them fair game. All software add feature as they mature, this is nothing new.
Modo on the other hand is beta (for a long, long time) and not fair to compare, nor can we get our hands on it.
The basic reason I go for wings is because it’s fast. Silo was a completely capable modeller, but there were several issues with it that kept it from easily (and quickly) performing some of the basic commands of Wings.
At the end of the day though, whatever program helps you in your creative pursuit, that program you should use 
For me personally, if Wings was twice the price of Silo, I’d still purchase it, because it allows me to box model like nothing else can.
Yea… I like wings…
Been playing with YAFRAY and Wings together…
OMG! there are caustics in yafray… Fresnel reflections…GI!!!
Not too bad…
be sure to read READ.ME file , windows users have to set a path in the enviornment variables… (real easy… Copy and paste a address)…
here is about 15 minuets modeling in wings… and 2 hours Playing in yafray LOL!
I went and RTFM (read the fruitful manual)…
there are some neat tricks up yafrays sleave!
Here is a realy bad example of the capabilitys…
LOL! I like it alot now that I Understand it more… be sure to take some time and go through the Docs on the yafray website…
http://www.coala.uniovi.es/~jandro/noname/
I went through it in 1 afternoon, and am realy happy with all the capabilitys :)…
nice for fast render, after you are done modeling… can take a break and get a fast preview of work 
is it just me, or is yafray awfully sloooooow?
i mean, in the same time it takes to do a single (somewhat experimental) test render i can easily export my obj from wings and do the same thing (only less eratically) in cinema.
nevertheless, immediate rendering from within wings is nice to have and sometimes a welcome interruption to go and get some coffee
afaik you can do the same from within silo via PoVray, think i saw the option somewhere…
there is a PovRay Plugin for wings also
there are quite a few import / Export formats…
YAFRAY is somewhat slow IMHO… Multithreading only gains me about 10% boost,…
well, it is free… I like it… when I am done making a model, I can send it off to YAFRAY and go make a cup of coffee…
BTW, when yafray is rendering you can use wings :P… YAFRAY works totally in the background… you are free to model while it works on your render…
someone told me that in a few days there is going to be another wings update with TOXIC support… Toxic looks kinna cool
That is all just silly fluff anyways… wings is made for modeling… not rendering… rendering is just a bonus…
nice for “on the fly” rendering…
Ok guys,
For me it’s enough info, then…
WINGS is free I’ve bought SILO, i have both
Bye
Leo
P.s.IS possible export a model in zbrush in a way you have the different part or material separated when you import in Zbrush, or you can obtein only a single mesh uniformed?
Bye
Leo
marciani > what i usually do to have better control and organization in my model is giving it materials in wings - 1 material per part that i want to edit separately - and set the ‘1 group per material’ option when exporting to .obj. that way you’ll have at least well organized groups in zbrush - not really separate meshes - but you can hide/show and edit with some accuracy and speed.
I bought Maya almost a year ago and have been using it for about 6 years. I used Silo for about a week and wont go back to model in Maya. Even in it’s current young form I find Silo ALOT more fun to use. That’s comparing it against Maya WITH MJ poly tools and Byrons Poly Tools. SiLO oWnZ J00!!!eerr me I should say…
2 cents
Shawn
ThE SP,
I never liked modeling in Maya either. I think it’s better as a finishing tool. (wrigging, shaders, fur, cloth, etc) Imo, 3ds max is a way better polygonal modeler than Maya (tool wise), and might serve your needs better if you like Silo’s isolines. Of course the price can’t compare. Max can do “all” that Silo can do and much more, including being able to push around multiple sub-d levels, with isolines. Silo is limited to 5 sub-d levels, I think.
If you just want a better modeler than Maya, 3ds Max is very complete (without plug-ins). If price is the issue, and you don’t mind the stuff that Silo lacks, go for Silo.
personally, I can’t get into Silo, since it would make me use another program anyway, and I don’t feel a gain in workflow. (I will keep trying it as they add features, Silo does have promise, as does Modo) I like Wings cause it’s just simple and fast at what it does. Easy selctions, UV assignments and material assignment. I can do all this with other apps, but none were ever as fast as Wings. Wings, I read on a foreum is slower than Silo after a certain # of polys, but I don’t want to use Wings for high-res. ZBrush and Max do high-res models better, especially ZB.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Max can do “all” that Silo can do and much more, including being able to push around multiple sub-d levels, with isolines.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I own MAX and have been using it for some time. If I want to model a character, low-poly model or any such thing, I much prefer Silo over MAX. So, to each his own, I suppose.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I much prefer Silo over MAX. So, to each his own, I suppose. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly. I carry no flags, so the way I see it, try out several tools, and find what works for you best. As a graphic artist, in the long run, the goal is to have a toolbox of stuff that you can get things done with. the goal is more important than the tool, so whatever helps you get from A to B best, go for that.
At the same time, you really shouldn’t bind to 1 app. Cause when you do, you don’t really know what other apps are up to, and lose track of cutting edge features. I’ve seen this happen to alot of Adobe PS users that I’ve worked with, they use nothing else, and have no idea what else is possible.
Hi ya
What’s all this fuzz about silo? It’s been intresting to read this thread, but I’d like to know(if someones so kind and tell me) what are the things you can’t do with ZB2 or does Silo work better or what is it? I know with ZB2 you can do all sort of orc’s but is Silo better for car’s and stuff like that?
I also downloaded silo trial and can’t say anything yet but let’s wait and see.
Thanks, Jimking
ZBrush can’t really compare head to head with a traditional modeler. Not cause ZB is lacking, but cause it’s just that different. Silo is an in-expensive sub-division modeler. It’s price and ease is what the hype is all about. ZBrush is a sculpting/painting tool, so it can’t do modeler type of stuff. The only thing remotely even close to ZBrush is Maya Artisan, in the fact that it is also a sculting/painting tool. ZB is really a 1 of a kind tool.
Given the fact that Silo is only $110 and a full featured learning edition demo is availiable, it doesn’t hurt to try it out. For the same reason, it don’t hurt to try Wings. (free) Unlike most software in this price range, both these softwares use features used only by the bigger boys, and made them faster and easier.
given the right artist, any tool can be made to shine, so experimenting with new software can not only lead to a new tool for your toolbox, but a better perspective on what can be done with each. Everybody has thier favorite app, but how can you truely say something is your favorite if you haven’t tried out the other options.
GM770, Silo is set at 5 subd levels by default but you have the option to have more than that. I don’t know if there is any limit apart from the usual ones of memory and speed.
I’m off to subdivide a cube to the limit!
Alan
Edit: 8 levels on 1G RAM. 393216 polys (quads?).
Silo couldn’t make 4 x that on the 9th division. So on my computer 1.5 million polys is too many to jump to. That’s not to say that’s the limit using other modelling means.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>What’s all this fuzz about silo? It’s been intresting to read this thread, but I’d like to know(if someones so kind and tell me) what are the things you can’t do with ZB2 or does Silo work better or what is it? I know with ZB2 you can do all sort of orc’s but is Silo better for car’s and stuff like that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As pointed out by others here, there is no real comparison between ZBrush and Silo. Silo is a sub-division/poly modeler. For what it does, it excells and the team that created it is making it better all the time.
I do want to point that many of the Z2 imagees you see here began in other 3D applications before being imported to Z2 for details to be added. Frankly, I do not like creating the base model in ZBrush. I would much rather use something like Silo to create a base shape and then import it into Z2. So, Silo (and other apps like it) certainly have their place in your toolset.
wow, this thread as some longevity
i absolutely agree to what has been said about zbrush vs. silo/wings … just can’t compare them, they’re not rivals, but companions in production - for some objects it’s just faster and more precise to block out the base mesh in a box modeler, bring it to ZB and make it go haywire, poly-wise, plus you can build excellent ‘containers’ for your disp.-maps and do things ZB can’t and is not supposed to do.
now all we need is functional bones in any of these apps, don’t we?