Other Apps: What advice can you give for LIGHTWAVE?

[Steve_Warner]

Is there a way to simply make a UV map that can be added to the already existing object or a way to copy the LW texture back on to the imported .obj from ZBrush?

Get the ZWave plugin from http://www.madeinasa.com/plugins/zwave.asp. Follow the regular steps for getting your object out of LightWave and into ZBrush. Create a new UVmap for the details you create. Then paint away. When you’re done, export the object with the UV map you created. Then load your original object (with the LW generated UV and Weight maps) into Modeler and run the ZWave plugin. Direct ZWave to your ZBrushed .obj. It will copy the UV map from ZBrush and add it to your old model. Once that’s done, you can use your color, displacement and normal maps from ZBrush on your existing model.

Hope that helps,

Steve

[madrenderman]

i found some problems with normal map.
i try to use normal from zbrush to lightwave, but with marvin landis plugin and otherplugin called tb_normal shader plugin, i found a problem, obj diffusion seems go to 0.
if i enable inverse on layer option, normal map seem work correctly, but i think is strange working,
any suggest?

Attachments

[Steve_Warner]

Make sure that your export prefs are set to eFlipX and eFlipZ for Normal Maps. If those aren’t set properly, the object will appear to be backlit (or as is probably the case here, having a low diffuse level). If you’ve already exported the normal map (and didn’t have the eFlip settings properly in ZBrush), you can bring the Normal Map into Photoshop and invert the Red and Green channels to correct the problem.

Another head’s up is that the Landis plugin (which is a derivitive of the ATI plugin) will not work properly with bones. Nor will it work with bump maps as it cancels them out. The TB shader, however, does not have this limitation.

Hope that helps!

Steve

[madrenderman]

Hi Steve, thanks for your fast suggest, now i check and test it.
ehm, i’m newbie of zbrush, what is the effects of eflip ?

[system]

Hi All!! First of all this is great forum and Zbrush rules!! But i think you guys already know this !

I recently started to learn Zbrush so i could use it with Lightwave and create more detailed models, for this i brought the intro to Zbrush dvds from gnomon3d. I haven´t even reached the 1/3 of the lessons (Only watched the part about the interface ). But i wanted to mess around with the tools before i continue with the dvds so i imported a LW model and started playing with the tools and adding detail to it, after playing with the model i thought “Let´s see how it will look in a scene in LW!”, there is where the problems began!

I must be doing something wrong, because the displacement does not work in Lightwave. I followed the tutorial of Steve Warner (Great tutorial), but it still don´t work, the only thing i didn´t do when i change the model in Zbrush was to store the morph, because i didn´t knew that :p. That step is really necesary? With it is, that means that i have to redo all the changes i made to my model in Zbrush?

Sorry for the big Image and this is my first time using Zbrush to add detail to a model so it´s still a newbie model (Low poly, zbrush changes and back to Lw)

I could export the mesh as an obj file, but open and animate a model with 1.000.000 in Lightwave will be suicide at least with my pc config! :evil:

Anyone have some insights to help me with this problem, i will really apreciate!

Thanks in advance!

[Steve_Warner]

I must be doing something wrong, because the displacement does not work in Lightwave. I followed the tutorial of Steve Warner (Great tutorial), but it still don´t work

Thanks, Lorigosolo. I’m glad you liked the tutorial.

the only thing i didn´t do when i change the model in Zbrush was to store the morph, because i didn´t knew that :p. That step is really necesary?

Storing a morph target before you make any changes is actually a critical step. Without it, you won’t be able to get back to your original mesh and LightWave will have trouble replicating the changes made in ZBrush.

With it is, that means that i have to redo all the changes i made to my model in Zbrush?

Yes and no. You should be able to load in your original OBJ that you exported from LightWave. This time, create the UV in ZBrush and store a morph target. Then boost the subdivision level up to something like 5 or 6. Finally, load in the Displacement map that you exported before. Flip it vertically (assuming that you filipped it vertically before exporting it) and then apply it by boosting the Intensity value in the Tool/Displacement menu (where you create your Displacement maps). That should recreate the effect of what you did before. In my experience, it takes a bit of trial and error to get this to look just right, but it should enable you to recapture the effect without having to redo all the work again.

Sorry for the big Image and this is my first time using Zbrush to add detail to a model so it´s still a newbie model (Low poly, zbrush changes and back to Lw)

Not saving the morph target seems to be the problem here. It looks like the map is not being applied to the proper polygons in LightWave and my guess is that’s due to the morph target not being saved. But I’ve also seen that when my map wasn’t flipped vertically when exporting from ZBrush. So make sure that step is performed as well.

Also, keep in mind that if you’re using the Displacement plugin for LightWave (as described in my tutorial), you will need to adjust the Render Subpatch level in LightWave. Typically for characters, this will need to be bumped up to an inordinate amount, such as 20 or 30. The primary reason for this is that you’re asking LightWave to apply displacement on an object that has fewer polygons than existed in ZBrush. For example, if you subdivided the object in ZBrush until it had 1 million polygons, you’d need to increase the Render Subpatch level in Lightwave to about 1 million polygons to match what you saw in ZBrush. In practice, this isn’t really necessary. Just keep in mind that the more you subdivide your object in LightWave, the closer it will look to what you had in ZBrush.

It’s also worth mentioning that no matter how much you subdivide your object in LightWave, it will never look 100% like it did in ZBrush. There are a couple of different reasons for this, but one of the primary ones is that LightWave doesn’t support sub-pixel displacements. To get around this, it’s advisable to use regular old bump maps to simulate minor details and displacements for major details. Remember that displacements should ideally be used for the types of shape-changes which will affect the object’s profile. But minor details such as pores, wrinkles, etc can all be achieved with bump maps or normal maps.

Normal maps weren’t covered in my tutorial and my work on updating the tutorial got delayed indefinitely due to other projects. So for what it’s worth, here’s what you need to do:

1. Get TB’s Normal Map shader from this link: http://home.att.ne.jp/omega/tabo/3dlabo/p_junk.html

2. In ZBrush’s preferences, set your Import Export option to: Normal Map Flip X and Normal Map Flip Z. If you don’t set these, your normal map will not export properly.

3. Follow the steps in my tutorial. Once you’ve exported your Displacement map, go ahead and export a normal map as well. Then continue following the steps of my tutorial to get your model back into LightWave.

4. Once in LightWave, bring up the surface for your object and apply TB’s Normal Map shader. Then apply the Normal Map you exported from ZBrush. You don’t have to use the Displacement map unless your object has some extreme displacement to its profile. Your model would fall into this category. As a result, you should apply both the Normal Map and the Displacement map. But since the Normal Map is handling the small details, you don’t have to set an extreme Render Subpatch level. Something more reasonable (like 6-10) should work just fine.

5. Tweak the settings between the Displacement and the Normal Map to get the desired effect.

That ought to do it. If you run into additional problems, let me know.

Cheers,

Steve

[system]

Hi Steve, thanks for the quick reply!

Storing a morph target before you make any changes is actually a critical step. Without it, you won’t be able to get back to your original mesh and LightWave will have trouble replicating the changes made in ZBrush.

So if i don´t store the model when i import it, i will not be able to go back to the lightwave model, but if i export the sub 1 model from Zbrush and use that as my new base model, can i do that and use the displacement applied in that model? If i do that i should get the results i was looking for or at least something close to what i see in Zbrush?

Yes and no. You should be able to load in your original OBJ that you exported from LightWave. This time, create the UV in ZBrush and store a morph target. Then boost the subdivision level up to something like 5 or 6. Finally, load in the Displacement map that you exported before. Flip it vertically (assuming that you filipped it vertically before exporting it) and then apply it by boosting the Intensity value in the Tool/Displacement menu (where you create your Displacement maps). That should recreate the effect of what you did before. In my experience, it takes a bit of trial and error to get this to look just right, but it should enable you to recapture the effect without having to redo all the work again.

That´s intresting i will try that later!

It’s also worth mentioning that no matter how much you subdivide your object in LightWave, it will never look 100% like it did in ZBrush. There are a couple of different reasons for this, but one of the primary ones is that LightWave doesn’t support sub-pixel displacements. To get around this, it’s advisable to use regular old bump maps to simulate minor details and displacements for major details. Remember that displacements should ideally be used for the types of shape-changes which will affect the object’s profile. But minor details such as pores, wrinkles, etc can all be achieved with bump maps or normal maps.

OOhh so that´s why Zbrush can handle insane amounts of polys without freezing, i hope Newtek can make some changes to Lightwave programing and let Lightwave support sub-pixel displacements! I heard that even Poser supports that! And it would be nice to have a bridge plug-in to Zbrush, something like the bridge plug-in of Maxon Body Paint!

Normal maps weren’t covered in my tutorial and my work on updating the tutorial got delayed indefinitely due to other projects. So for what it’s worth, here’s what you need to do:

I have started to learn how to create Normal maps for game models using Lightwave, and looks pretty sweet! It´s like a “super bump”, if i use that i should not need displacements or it will be better to use both? I will try to follow your tutorial and apply the changes you mentioned in your post, and try to create some Normal maps in Zbrush, i guess it is easier and faster than Lightwave´s technic! Thanks for the mini tutorial on Normal Maps!!

Also, keep in mind that if you’re using the Displacement plugin for LightWave (as described in my tutorial), you will need to adjust the Render Subpatch level in LightWave. Typically for characters, this will need to be bumped up to an inordinate amount, such as 20 or 30. The primary reason for this is that you’re asking LightWave to apply displacement on an object that has fewer polygons than existed in ZBrush. For example, if you subdivided the object in ZBrush until it had 1 million polygons, you’d need to increase the Render Subpatch level in Lightwave to about 1 million polygons to match what you saw in ZBrush. In practice, this isn’t really necessary. Just keep in mind that the more you subdivide your object in LightWave, the closer it will look to what you had in ZBrush.

WOW! 20 to 30! That´s really high, and i thought that 5 was too much! The higher the poly count in Lightwave the closer i will get! So if i go something like 1/3 of the poly count of the High Poly i should get something similar to what i see in Zbrush, but with less quality.

Another odd thing, this is about Zbrush, i have the Ogre model brush in subdivision level 4, when i load the “tool” of the ogre and lower the subdivision level i mess up the model :evil: , i can´t go back to the high poly model because when i do that the model goes crazy and “implode” it self! Don´t know why that´s happening! Any idea?

Thanks Steve for your time!

Cya
Lorigosolo

[Steve_Warner]

So if i don´t store the model when i import it, i will not be able to go back to the lightwave model, but if i export the sub 1 model from Zbrush and use that as my new base model, can i do that and use the displacement applied in that model? If i do that i should get the results i was looking for or at least something close to what i see in Zbrush?

Storing the morph target simply tells ZBrush, “This is what the model looked like when it came in. Remember it.” When you then paint on your model, you are changing the geometry. Because ZBrush allows scalable non-destructive resolutions, changes you make at SDivsion Level 5 will be reflected as best as possible, even at SDiv Level 1. I honestly don’t know the technicalities of it, but I do know that if you try to export the SDiv Level 1 model (without switching back to the stored morph target), the exported model will not be the same as the one that you brought in. And with that being the case, the UVs will likely be off, causing problems with your Displacement Map. It’s imperative that you store the morph target right after you import the .obj file and draw it on the canvas. As a good habit, I also create the UV map at this stage as well.

OOhh so that´s why Zbrush can handle insane amounts of polys without freezing, i hope Newtek can make some changes to Lightwave programing and let Lightwave support sub-pixel displacements!

I know that’s been a highly requested feature. My guess is that it will be implemented in the next revision or so.

I have started to learn how to create Normal maps for game models using Lightwave, and looks pretty sweet! It´s like a “super bump”, if i use that i should not need displacements or it will be better to use both?

Normal maps are essentially 3D bump maps. Where a bump map stores 2D information, a normal map stores 3D information. It is still a visual trick (like bump maps) but the detail they provide is vastly superior to bump maps.

In many cases, you can just use normal maps without additional displacements or bump maps. But there may be times where you want to use bump and displacements in addition to the normal map. In large part, determining when to do this will come as a trial and error. But if I can make a general rule of thumb, it would be this: Apply your normal map to your object first. Then render and check it. If you find that it isn’t affecting the profile of your object enough, add the displacement map starting with a fairly low Subpatch Render level (i.e. 4 - 6). Then increase the subpatch level as needed to get the level of detail you require.

Another odd thing, this is about Zbrush, i have the Ogre model brush in subdivision level 4, when i load the “tool” of the ogre and lower the subdivision level i mess up the model :evil: , i can´t go back to the high poly model because when i do that the model goes crazy and “implode” it self! Don´t know why that´s happening! Any idea?

That’s really weird. I’ve never had that happen. When I save out the object as a tool (either with a high SDiv Level or a low SDiv level) and load it in again, I can change resolutions without affecting the object. It sounds to me the displacement in the alpha palette is being applied to the model, but I don’t know how that would be happening. I’m sorry that I can’t help you more with that problem. I’d recommend posting on the main troubleshooting forum and posting a few pics showing what’s going on. I’m sure someone with more ZBrush knowledge can help.

Cheers!!

Steve

[midcgi]

I just wonder if is possible after doing all the texturing, painting and so on, can I import exactly what I see in ZB into LW, so I can animate my charater with all the textures and paintings I did in Zbrush?

[pixelinfected]

here you can see a sample of creature that i did in zbrush, and i rig, animate and render in lightwave 3d, i did a guide about its workflow, it’s avaible on my web

i suggest to download and read the Zguide of lightwave did from steve warner which is excellent to understand how to work with lightwave 3d and zbrush.

[system]

Lightwave 9 supports displacement maps from Zbrush and can apply to an object with a displacement node in the node editer which is available from 9.0.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua0gRkeuspU

[system]

Please can someone tell me how to get the menu back in lightwave 9 modeler.

it dissapeared and i’ve looked everywhere for help! :eek:

Attachments

[system]

bump and lurk

[Steve_Warner]

Please can someone tell me how to get the menu back in lightwave 9 modeler.

it dissapeared and i’ve looked everywhere for help! :eek:

In Modeler, hit the <d> key to open the Display Properties window. Go to the Interface tab and uncheck the “Hide Toolbar” option. That will bring the menu and tools back.

Cheers!

Steve

[system]

I wish Newtek would seriously get off their behinds and integrate Lightwave with ZBrush a lot more. But I have a question about UVs. Currently I’m following Steve’s awesome tutorial, but I realized that I have to still take my UVs into Photoshop and paint textures. Since GUV UVs are impossible to read, how would i do this? Would I have to create another set of UVs in Lightwave? And if so, how would I swamp them with the UVs created in ZBrush?

[Steve_Warner]

One of the easiest ways to work between ZBrush and Photoshop is to use the ZAppLink plugin. This is especially helpful if you’re using AUV or GUV maps. ZAppLink allows you to transfer your model in its current orientation to Photoshop. You paint your textures, not worrying about UVs. Then save your Photoshop file. The results are transferred back to ZBrush and applied to your model. It’s a lot like working with Projection Master, only you get to texture with Photoshop rather than ZBrush.

Another way to do this is to avoid ZBrush UV maps altogether and generate them in LightWave. I’ve got a lengthy tutorial on my site showing how to do this:

http://www.stevewarner.com/html/uv_unwrapping.html

If you’re on a PC, use the the PLG tools. They’re free, and just as good (if not better) than the UV tools in Maya, Max or Modo. If you’re on a Mac, you can get good results by using Blender’s unwrapping tools.

Unwrapping the mesh yourself has the advantage of allowing you to visualize the “skinned” mesh in the UV space (rather than seeing a bunch of weird blocks which is what the AUV / GUVs look like). That makes painting in Photoshop a whole lot easier.

If you’ve already painted your texture/displacement/normal/bump/specular/subsurface maps with an AUV or GUV and want to transfer the results to a custom unwrapped UV (such as those created with the PLG tools), you can do so by baking the texture with LightWave’s texture baking camera or the texture baker shader. Just load your model into Modeler after you’re finished in ZBrush. If you created AUVs or GUVs, your exported OBJ should have these embedded in them. Create a new UV using the PLG tools. Save the model and load it into Layout. Apply your textures one at a time (color, then bump, diffuse, specular, etc.) to the color channel using the AUV or GUV. Then bake the texture to the PLG/custom UV you created. It works like a charm.

Hope that helps!

Steve

[system]

One word: Insane.

I cannot believe what just happened. ZAppLink is amazing, and so are the creators of ZBrush. Holy cow. Thanks a lot, Steve! And by the way I have ALL of your books on Lightwave. :lol: I really appreciate all that you have done for the community!

[Steve_Warner]

Thanks a lot, Steve! And by the way I have ALL of your books on Lightwave. :lol: I really appreciate all that you have done for the community!

Thanks! Comments like this make it all worth it. BTW, just in case you weren’t aware, I did a series of articles for HDRI 3D last year which picked up where the ZPipeline Guide left off. They help bridge the gap from ZBrush 2 to ZBrush 3.1 and offer a ton of tips and tricks that I’ve discovered for getting the best results with LightWave. They’re definitely worth checking out if you can get ahold of the back issues.

Cheers!

Steve

[Sampei]

Steve thanks for your kind help and for being one of the lightwave KINGS. Keep it up.

[Steve_Warner]

Thanks, Sampei! I sincerely appreciate it. The ZBrush tutorials I’ve made are starting to show their age. I’m teaching ZBrush at the Digital Animation and Visual Effects School in Orlando and am planning on doing new tutorials for LightWave users very soon.

Cheers!

Steve