I’ve been messing with the Rhino/Flamingo demo since seeing Glen’s robo-bug the other day. I must say, I love that program and will definitely buy it once I can save the dough. Hopefully, I can buy the student discount copy once I get registered back in school (very soon).
Mentat, That’s a beauty. I reminds me of one of those little bugs that can stand on the surface tension of water. As long as you have too much to think about, dont forget about TrueSpace, Electric Image Universe, and FormZ. Good luck in your quest. 
GO C4D!!
I checked out Carrera since I qualify for an upgrade from an old copy of Ray Dream I have around, and while it is cool looking on the screen, C4D has a nice blend of a lot of great attributes. It’s technical, fast, has lots of great material functions… My goal would be to use ZBrush for “organic modeling” and texture mapping, and C4D for the rest, and the final renders. At least that’s how it’s starting to map out in my head…
I’ve tried most 3D apps, they are all really great at something. C4D has the right mix for me. I ditched the Carrera demo. 
Stim and Zoid I am liking C4D more and more. Here is a test render of my ZBrush Ah’hm-brosiim model. I wanted to see what it could look like. I only scratched the surface with the lights etc. I am excited to see how I can marry these two apps together. Especially in animation.
Oh yeah! I can see this is going to lead to good things. 
Wooo-hooo! I just bought C4D XL ver 7 with free upgrade to ver 8. I saved $700 on it through a special Adobe promotion they were running. It was a little more than what I had intended to spend but with the savings I just couldn’t pass it up. 
Oh boy. Sounds like I’m about to get dinged for another upgrade…
Mentat -
I’m sure you’ll let us all know how you like Cinema4D … maybe we’ll see you posting over on Renderosity’s Cinema4D gallery!
Hey hey Mentat…
looking good…
thanx for turning my head with your worx you posted over @ “TG”…
Hmm, I hope this will not go off topic to much: think that if you own or can get a copy of RayDreamStudio 5 - you might ask yourself “why Carara?”. And, talking about “underestimated” software :): What about Truespace?? Having tried C4D and MAX I found that TS (buying it will spare you some dialogs with your “better half”) is more user-friendly (interface), and is in no way limitated compared to the aforementioned proggies.
Found that TS/RayDream>>ZBRUSH>>Bryce>>ZBrush
works just perfect. But, views differ - just was curious why seemingly no1 uses TS/RayDream.
Actually, truespace is very limited compared to max in the animation department (and in other areas as well, I imagine). C4d has a much better renderer, and v8 will be superior to trueSpace in every concievable area. imho
Truespace, in my oppinion, is no longer a good value. I have truespace v6 and have used v 1 and v3 prior to that - considering you can grab Lightwave for a couple hundred more and that to reach all of Lightwaves functionality you would need to spend $200 - $600 or more on plugins for Truespace…well…it just doesn’t seem worth it.
I regret ordering the v6 upgrade before looking at lightwave 7.5. I could have saved $400… Lightwave is more stable, faster and has a community supporting it that is nearly as helpful as the people here.
Lightwave is just as easy or easier to use, has a render engine that is second only to the bleeding edge / super high end render engines and their support is wonderful - something Truespace is lacking in a big way.
Both apps will have a learnnig curve to model and get the render engine to do what you want - but neither is too bad.
When I ordered lightwave I expected to leave Truespace installed for modeling and have found that as I learn Lightwave I have less and less use for Truespace at all - Lightwave is even easier to model with.
With all the “high end” 3D packages dropping their price and offering demo versions so people can try them out - Caligari (truespace) needs to either drop their price as well or work some fantastic features into their program to justify running with the “big dogs.” The selling point used to be a middle of the road price point and an easy to use interface - neither of which are true anymore.
Just my 2 cents.
Mentat,
I bought a used copy of Rhino about a year ago (Version 1.1) and paid about the same as I would have for Z-brush (I hadn’t discovered our amazing tool yet). I, in retrospect, should have bought Z. 
But, I will say the Rhino is a fine program. I found the learning curve very easy because, for me anyway, it is extremely similar to Autocad -a program that I use at work.
As a modeller (as opposed to an all-in-one solution) I give it a big thumbs up. If you want to model a car, for example, it does the job beautifully and easily. Organics, though, are much harder.
In the hands of a master such as yourself, it could be an amazing tool.
Ryan
I purchased Cinema 4D a couple of weeks ago. I haven’t had any regrets as I have found it to be intuitive, easy to learn, and I like the interface. Now I just need to spend more time with it to learn it. I plan on using it to help me with mechanical constructs to be used with my ZBrush models. I am excited.
I “played” with the Cinema 4D 7XL demo before buying Lightwave. Both are fantastic packages with really superb render engines. In some ways I liked C4D better then LW.
In the end I wound up going with Lightwave for 2 reasons only:
- Slightly more features for the $$
- $500 worth of training materials (20 hours or so of DVD training) included in the price.
I think C4D lost a few points because, having used Truespace perviously, I was confused by it’s icons - I kept looking for the Treuspace equivlents. As much as we are a visual species - a lot has to be said for Lightwave’s text buttons. I have never had to guess what a button was based on some esoteric icon.
With all that said, I have not uninstalled the C4D demo and find myself toying around with it when I have a few minutes to spare. As a package it really has come a long way in the last few years and is quickly becoming a well respected and very capable suite.
I read what you guys are saying about these various programs. I downloaded most of the demos and to tell you the truth, I find them just a little too taxing on the brain. At my age, If it is not user friendly I will forget it. I love a challenge as much as the next guy but some of these are just plainly rediculous. :ex:
DeeVee, if you can learn ZBrush, you can learn anything At least, that’s my take on the whole thing. I’ve used Maya, max, Animation Master, and a few others, and ZBrush is definately not the easiest to learn of the bunch (for me).
I think it’s just a matter of getting your mind around the whole 3D modeling thing. While each package has it’s own way of doing things - the principles are the same. (Zbrush being a bit of an exception because it is a painting app first and a modeler second)
In most “true” 3D apps you model using points and polygons. So you need to think in terms of contours and primitive shapes (box, sphere, etc…) and then take that down to the points on the model. You need to be aware of edges and their placement. Really “good” modelers can take hours to model a crease in a shirt or a nose.
Zbrush is much more creative in that regard - you can literally sculpt in real time and do some really amazing work in a matter of an hour or so. Zbrush doesn’t (unless you want it to) bother you with things like number of polygons, edge loops or non planars.
I am a loong way from being a proficient poly modeler but I find it gratifying in the end.
It may help to just start with building stuff out of simple primitives - cylinders, spheres, cubes. Once you are comfortable with that - start deforming the primitives into other shapes and so on.
Alternately - Hash’s Animation:Master models using splines. Some folks find them much more like drawing then modeling. I found them difficult to learn initially, but I have no traditional art background.In then end you can make some nice organic models quickly because you have less points to worry about pushing and pulling and the curves will naturally follow model contours.
I don’t think there is a demo available, but a program called “Hamapatch” uses the same technique (to the point where Hash asked him to stop distributing a previous version) and it is freely available.
Hamapatch is a standalone modeling application only - you will still need to export the models out to another program to render them - but at least it will give you a taste of spline modeling.
http://www.hash.com/
http://www.geocities.com/hamapatch/program/index.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hamapatch/files/hamaPatch/
ummm, I think that C4D is a good choice there mentat… Cinema somewhat reminds me of Photo Impact in that as it is still somewhat of the underdog in the 3D world, as PI is in the 2D world, but…both apps in the right hands can produce stunning worx… and then there is ZBrush… wow, what can ya say… though I am no where near to where I wish to be with this app, I can see the awsome potential through the fantastic worx you are all doing… haha, speaking of ZBrush, I just saw my first script last night and tried to emulate somewhat… new doc, new doc… bla bla… but… now I am more stoked than ever… damn this thing rocks… and we are only talking 1.23… I will be using all of my free time to get better with this version, I only hope that 1.5 will only add onto the process and that the learning curve will not be sidetracked by too many changes at the core of the processes… I saw the demo showing making forms with primitives and then draping a mesh over and I for one can hardly wait… though I must say I already have enough on my plate just learning 1.23… anyhoo, I digress… hopefully one day soon I will be able to share with you all some pretty cool worx…
btw… as this app has been dubbed the latest, greatest concept design creator tool, I am curious as to how things go re- architecture designing… anyone know of any examples off hand…
Just a note, I actually own copies of LW, Rhino 2, C4D, Electric Image and Zbrush. I have messed around with my share of 3D apps (TS, Maya, Animation Master, etc. included). I come from a traditional illutration background. I am in the process of including 3D in my creative arsenal. But it has been a journey trying to find some 3D apps to sink my teeth into.
Here is my personal take on what experience I have had with a variety of 3D apps (again, personal experience…others will have their own opinion):
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Hash’s Animation Master: great potential program, lots of features for the money, easy modeler. But very unstable and buggy (even with frequent patches) and shaky tech support.
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Trues Space 5: funky tool set design with expanding buttons (couldn’t get used to it), lots of features; but buggy as hell (don’t think too many will argue this). Dont’ know about version 6 yet.
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Amapi 6: easy but original interface, straightforeward, but again has some bugs (especially with rendering setup, though by now they may have fixed some of them). Just get version 4 and will be able to do most of the modeling with that just as well.
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Rhino: So far it has not been a disappointment, very straightforeward. Don’t need to dig too deep to find tools. Stable (thank heavens!). Still learning it. Has many of Maya’s modeling capabilities with half the headache of interface navigation.
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Maya: Fantastic toolset for modeling (NURBS), very deep program. Not the easiest for a 3D newbie to learn. Does require a bit more power (hardware-wise) to run. Seems stable.
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Lightwave: Stable so far, interface takes a bit getting used to (no icons). One of the best renderers I have seen. Modeling seems relatively easy.
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C4D: Really like the interface, fully customizable (just dragging and tacking palettes). Love the drag and drop for everything from modeling to texturing. Great with Z-brush. Extremely stable…SO IMPORTANT to me. Great tech support! Definitly worth the cash (I wish the darn “Shave and a Haircut” plugin wasn’t so expensive.)
Haven’t had much time with Electric Image…hope to play with it more soon…though the rendering seems to be one of the best.