Cheers, MTB… 
But remember what ‘challenge’ means, according to the dictionary definition I found in my studio library…
‘CHALLENGE: To stimulate: to challenge the imagination.’
I hope you at least keep that in mind when you think up the next ones…
(And you’ll be surprised to hear that I probably WILL be contributing after all, although my entry might be a little unexpected… )
I don’t think these up…they are a collective idea. I just post them. 
Now, I one thing I think needs to be said is that these challange are very general. Aimed at beginner to intermediate users. It would be a far different beast for advanced users. It is up to the individual to challenge themselves. You can define challenge yes…but (IMO) it is up to the individual to figure out how to apply a challeng upon themselves. Fine…topic may be boring or unstimulating…but, as an example, My level of work in an image would be far more different that someone else…say…someone who just bought ZB. Southern would also in turn be at a different level. Challenging for him would be something beyond my understanding. If you or anyone feels that the challenges are below their abilities and/or imagining…I really don’t know what to say (don’t misjudge…I am not saying this is your case). I do it…no matter what…for the fun and for the support to and from others. Like you, the reason I am so ardent here is to give back what little I can in gratitude. Yes I started up the challenges again…but now…it is a thing of its own. Kept alive by those who choose to participate…either in helping find a new topic or by challenging oneself.
Cheer back at ya SC. 
As to entering… I guess that is the best solution…show me what you mean buddy!
Accepted MTB, although I still think your logic is flawed, but as you said, perspective!
And as my favorite musician Frank Zappa would have said…‘I’ll whip it out!’
Of course I am flawed.
Aren’t we all in some way…lol…perspective.
MWOAHAHAH!
lol… Lets change this to The MNC-MTB/SC "Whats YOUR Challenge thread.
Hello!
Sorry to take up more space Had to revise Jack, so he was more ‘jack’ and less ice cream salesman!.
No more, i promise!
Nahhh MTB…We’re done with the discussion. 
Thanks for the links mon ami Francophonie!
hmmm… I don’t post here that often, but:
@stonecutter: what keeps you from posting the pics you have in mind?? You don’t need an external challenge to do them - wrong??
I understand that - apart from being a fun thing to do - these challenges are a platform for newbies and “wouldbies” and veterans alike. I considered the challenges a nice invitation, removing initial fears of new users. Maybe I am flawed too , but I think that noone will stop you from posting your abstract (in meaning or expression) pics - doing this outside the challenges might proove as a challenge for you?
But - look at my post-count (=weight?), I seldem post here, so: why should anyone care!?
I care Z! 
And as I said, I will be posting on this one, as I posted on the last one…
And I’m not talking about ‘abstract painting’ as I said to MTB. I’m talking about ‘abstract concepts’…I generally don’t do ‘abstract paintings’. I was talking about ‘representational’ painting of an abstract concept. (How would you model ‘Rage’, an abstract concept…?)
But…We did that already, right?
And nothing prevents me from posting anywhere at any time, except the pressures of my non-CG activities, although as I’ve said on another thread recently, I only post about .1% of the pieces I do…
… you are the first in … how many months, sc !
I think I understood what you told about changing this challenge to other concepts - still I think that most new users (and a lot of seasoned ones) will have enuff problems to get in reach of more “substantial” things. The problem is, we are used to communicate via speech, not images - and: as you can see if you look at a couple of these posts >>> even this is hard enough, sometimes !
But to your question: think I could envision the concept “rage” in a couple of ways - I would have preferred the concept “fun”, but views differ - thankfully so!!
I just received a PM from a member with a lot lower membership number than me, and one of the ‘veterans’ here…I think he summed it up nicely, and to paraphrase what he said, what is missing or seperating the thoughts of MTB and myself are challenging ZB skills VS. Artistic expression…
I think he summed up the dissonance perfectly!
And ‘Fun’ as a subject on the thread I suggested, would fit the definition of an abstract to represent perfectly…You’re right, views differ…As they say, It’s all good!’
Here is my entrie…
I call him TOXIX …
sorry for pixelated picture (lol almost typed Pixolated)
welll, it started out with a jungle doodle, and evolved into what you see here
Hope you all like it
hands are simple Zshperes adaptive skin, and quickly cylendricaly UV mapped…
head is just quickly modeled out of a sphere, torso is a Cylender subdevided and somewhat molded.
anyways hope you all like him
he is mostly sewergas, mixed with a colorful medely of NON- toxic paint thinner, and other “Harmless” chemicles.
I guess he is not much of a monster, he is made from things that are totaly safe for human consumption. (according to Food and Drug administration).
anyways He kicked casper the frendly ghosts ass a few weks ago, and now casper is comeing at him after Karate classes in this photo…
Thanks for looking
It boils down to this fellas.
SC is talking about challenging the mind and imagination. This is great. To make it more interesting. Fine. I understand. I always did. But it is also only a tiny part of the MNC. The point of MNC is not to challenge ones imagination, or even 3D skills for that matter. The challenge is based on a user knowledge translated to program understanding basis. Content of the challenge is merely to close the bracets of possibilities per MNC. I know that sounds limiting and I know that is what SC is getting at…but it is also the point. This allows for one to concentrate on mastering ZBrush and its features and not ones imaginaion. Though, it would be advised that if you feel this way…then start to challenge your mind. If you feel that the current MNC is a bit elementary, then take if further conceptually. Take a monsterous and villainous concept to another extreme.
Like I said…even skill isn’t a factor…look at our buddy gwot in the Zif-Figure challenge. He works for DE who is part of bringing Unreal II, UT2003 and UT2004 to us. Yet the zif tool challenged him…and boy way he happy after messin with it for a bit. Made an awesome mage figure. So…ask yourself…what challenges you in zbrush…what is it about the program you are scared or intimidated about…then…dive head first into it. Try to master it…you have problems or don’t understand a particular way to achieve something, then pop on in here and ask…thats why ZBC and the MNC is here. So one may better learn Zbrush.
edit
Exactly SC…I too was going to PM you this but I thought that this would clear it up for everybody.
NOW LETS MAKE SOME BADDIES, YES!?
less verbiage, more monsters, please!!!
may I ask, does anyone have any fave cooking tips for spiderwebs?
substantially edited:
I’m sure there’s room for other types of challenges
as for this one, my own gabbiness gave me an idea :ex:
Greetings,
Haven’t posted in awhile. Recently purchased the Adobe InDesign bundle and really love the synergy between Z-Brush and Photoshop.
This image started out in Photoshop with the noose drawing and lettering.
The blood and the hand were added in Z-Brush.
This particular was the reverse of the norm.
Start in Photoshop and end in Z-Brush.
[Gallery Entry]
Enjoy! 
Hi,
I just read this post…I will decline to enter the discusion present, because if I did I would probably set the board in to an uproar…knowing the way I go about things.
So I will just add a few definitions:
Abstract expressionism … is the art genre MTB seems to be actually referring to when he says Abstract painting. In fact I have seen the term abstract art misused about this place.
Abstract art…is accepted by the Art World as being the beginning of so-called Modern Art. Here it is widely accepted that a French painter David (can’t remember the whole name) 1770’s ish through to 1793 period is responsible. Abstract was considered a ‘staged’ composition. This is where all things superflouous to the story/theme were omitted in the composition. Gone were the never-ending peopled landscapes backdrops etc. A story was told in a simple manner. These paintings of David would not look like abstract paintings to us today. The main characters had to ‘hold’ the story. Now this seems to have changed overtime.
Abstract expressionism…began after WWII…and is predominantly concerned with splattering paint all over a canvas in some supposed order. I hate the stuff.
There is also Fauvism…some Fauvists interesting.
Now Expressionism ahh…the good stuff is wonderful.
I will say that to be able to piant or depict Abstract thought…throughout a composition, or as a standalone feeling are both wonderful to achieve.
To enhance the drawing or modelling one undertakes…one can learn so much more about themselves and about their art with abstract thought portrayed(no argument pointed at either person above).
However my Art History is a little rusty, so I hope I haven’t misled.
Don’t worry I do understand both points of view expounded in the posts above.
I take no sides.
I take a guess that this will be the longuest MNC ever… text lenght speeking…
anyway, SC, I’d suggest a Tuesday Night Challenge for Abstract Concepts Entries, TNCACE… Having ACE in it does not mean it’s for veterans only…
As a long-time newbie user, i also would like to thank MTB for the initiative of getting them MNC back, as they definitely gave me the will of doing something being guided by just the little necessary arbitrary parameter I needed.
And, to terminate this stuff, I think that everyone, using perspective, can understand the subject for this MNC both concrete (i’ll do my representation for that particular vilain i know) and abstract (i’ll do my representation of a character that to me represents vailainy)… please input “monster” word too where needed…
Now, let’s Z !
Cheers all, don’t be intimidated by the blabla stuff, I suppose it just was meant to mask our lack of inspiration. (False ? Now demonstrate ! )
gasperdoochies…debate and art…they seem to go hand in hand…and yall are having a good one… It is very interesting reading to a layman like myself who doesn’t know squat about squat.
My only two cents about the Monday Night Challenges aka MNC would be:
They are what we make of them
You will get out what you put into them
The word challenge was used in place of contest originally so it would not alienate anyone from participating
The IRC thing was first formed by myself and Dfaris. Mentat aka Lonnie, Dlee aka Deb and Grub aka Rob and Slosh aka Brian were my moderators originally for the channel. (Which didn’t and still doesn’t need a lot of moderation coz it’s a fun place)
The reason we quit the challenges before was due to lack of interest on the part of the forum to participate.
I am glad Mike aka Mtb got the interest going again, truly. As far as input from the forum members that can’t attend any of the irc sessions for whatever reasons, I woud say either email me at catfishmn@aol.com with MNC in the subject line or PM Mtb aka Mike (Mahilikus the black) with your suggestions for the MNC by Sunday nights so that the ideas can be presented in the irc chat room for discussion.
Well time to work irl, great entries so far. This will be a very fun thread from the looks of it so far. 
the judge and the killer
and…the site
and…the victims¡¡¡
Hi all
Here, my creation :
Someone noticed me to post it here
Why not after all