ZBrushCentral

Looking for zbrush 3.1 mac os X demo

I count three baseless assumptions in that statement alone. That has to be a record.

Also, both ZBrush(and other 3D programs) and PC games require decent video cards.
Actually, ZBrush doesn’t use your 3D accelerator. It’s based in a proprietary and incompatible technology, and only benefits from more RAM and processor speed. But that’s beside the point.

So why not use the hardware you got in one machine for as many things as possible?
Same reason you don’t use the money in your pocket for as many things as possible, raise as many children as you’re capable of producing, or watch as many shows as your television is capable of displaying: Because you’ll get a better return on your investment if you don’t.

Long term goals require focus and discipline. Is this so hard to accept?

There are ways to maximize resources, and there are ways to maximize productivity. It would be a mistake to treat the two as equivalent.

Let’s not forget also that all games are made on a PC.
This statement made false by the word “all.”

Continue?

And the professionals I look up to are those in the gaming industry.
On behalf of professionals in all other industries, your ambivalence is duly noted.

And I’m pretty sure those games require ‘artists’ who happen to like playing games.
That’s a bold assumption, and the subject of another debate. But for the sake of brevity, let’s pretend I agree with you.

So I really don’t get what you mean with not being able to be a gamer and an artist at the same time.
Of course not. 'cause that’s not what I said.

I said that you can’t insist that the machine you work on be first and foremost (and in all-caps) a gaming machine if you realistically hope to rise above the “aspiring” phase.

You might as well be saying you can’t be an aspiring artist and a comic book fan at the same time.
That’s a whole 'nother debate, and one I could argue either side of. You’re making things out to be so black-and-white…

But no. To continue your metaphor, it’s like I’m saying that the comfy chair you read comics in doesn’t belong at your drafting table.

Have you ever heard of PC game mods? These are PC games that have been converted by gamers with new enviroments, characters, vehicles, etc. created and designed by gamers. It’s one of the ways gamers hone their game developing skills if they want to work in the industry.
It’s much more than that; this is how an aspiring professional gains credibility, a name in the community, and trackable numbers to demonstrate that their work is desirable.

Now it would be pretty inconvieniant if you would not be able to test your new game vehicle/weapon/level on the same machine don’t you think?
It would indeed.

But no more so than rendering assets to a console, or handing them off to the rest of your team.

Sometimes inconvenience is the lesser of two evils.

This is a loaded question, but what percentage of PC game mods do you suppose actually see completion?

I’m not saying there’s a 1:1 correlation, but I do think the modders who meet their goals only install games as a necessary evil to get at the engine. As opposed to “because they’re gamers.”

Heck, I don’t believe the modders who finish things even think of themselves as gamers.

Am I wrong?

I really hope you’re not saying that “game” art isn’t real 3D art. Cause I think you would know better.
I’d never say that. …but I think this guy did:
And I’m pretty sure those games require ‘artists’ who happen to like playing games.
:wink:

Now, are you going to lynch me for using my right of free choice?:smiley:
Nope. Why are you taking it that way?

I thought the whole Apple way of thinking was all about the freedom of choice, not bitching about the fact that someone supposedly made the “wrong” choice.
Wow. Really?

The “Apple way of thinking” is, in a nutshell, that a benevolent dictatorship is better than democracy.

You have to admit, you were way off with that one.

Then what are “all” video games made on if not on a PC? Tell me please.

“Quote:
I really hope you’re not saying that “game” art isn’t real 3D art. Cause I think you would know better.
I’d never say that. …but I think this guy did:
Quote:
And I’m pretty sure those games require ‘artists’ who happen to like playing games.”

I don’t freaking get you sir.

"Heck, I don’t believe the modders who finish things even think of themselves as gamers.

Am I wrong?"

Yeah, you’re very wrong, and I’ve played a lot of professionally designed finished mods. If you go to mod forums you’ll know that modders are equally passionate about 3D modelling as they are with gaming. Check out this mod -
http://www.pointofexistence.com/ It’s been around for more than 3 years now and has been available on two different games.

Also, I work mainly on 3DS MAX 2008 which requires both a video card AND a PC as it is not available for the Mac. IMO if my machine is good enough for high end games, then it’s good enough for 3D software. If anything, I would need only a lower end PC if I were just doing graphics and nothing more. I also have the self-control not to play games while I’m working on something. I’m not destracted by them just because they’re installed on the same hard drive. If you feel that a gaming/graphics design combo machine is unprofessional then that’s your opinion. I’m just happy that I have a machine that can do both things. What’s so bad about that?

Well, first off, you just added the word “video,” ruling out traditional media such as wood blocks and playing cards. Those weren’t ruled out by the big sweeping statement whose reaction you’re reacting to.

Even so, do you contend that there’s not a single video game in existence today produced on anything but a Windows-based PC? Not one? 'cause, that’s what it would take for your statement to be true.

I don’t need to provide an alternate “all”, or want to. There can’t be one. That was the point.

I don’t freaking get you sir.
Agreed.

Also, I work mainly on 3DS MAX 2008 which requires both a video card AND a PC as it is not available for the Mac.
Unless it’s an Intel based Mac and you’re loading up Windows. But, sure. I’ve got Max on my PC. That’s one of the bigger reasons I own one.

IMO if my machine is good enough for high end games, then it’s good enough for 3D software. If anything, I would need only a lower end PC if I were just doing graphics and nothing more.
I agree with this as well. Why are we arguing?

I don’t know why we’re arguing but can we just stop hating each other and make peace?:smiley:

Let’s just be happy with the hardware/computer platform choices we’ve made and get on with making kick ass 3D art k?

Works for me! :+1:

Here’s another completed mod made by ‘gamer’ artists -

http://www.isotx.com/index.php?view=3946

And in case you missed my last comment regarding mods:

"Heck, I don’t believe the modders who finish things even think of themselves as gamers.

Am I wrong?"

Yeah, you’re very wrong, and I’ve played a lot of professionally designed finished mods. If you go to mod forums you’ll know that modders are equally passionate about 3D modelling as they are with gaming. Check out this mod -
http://www.pointofexistence.com/ It’s been around for more than 3 years now and has been available on two different games.

lol… these guys are doing some work in unity which is on the mac! :smiley:

I did miss that, sorry. (you might have still been editing your post while I was responding? that happens a lot)

I have no doubt that they’re passionate about modeling, and expect that to be fully evident in the forums. It’s gaming for the sake of gaming that I question.

What I guess I’d need to see is how involved the project contributors are in discussions about other games. (and particularly, I suppose, with games they can’t mod) But that’s not such an easy thing for me to pinpoint, or at least not an obvious thing that jumped out by going to the forums you linked to. Perhaps if I spent more time there?

Anyway, I thought we were done arguing?

Not arguing, just wanted to show you some fine examples of art created by gamers. As for gaming for the sake of gaming. Well I play games for the same reason people go see movies. To me, they’re fun, they take me to another world, and I also appreciate the artistic design of the fictional world which in turn inspires me to want to create kick ass 3D art. And I’m pretty show that’s how these modders feel as well.

They’re using the SOURCE engine NOT Unity for this particular mod. And what project exactly are they using Unity on? As far as I can tell they do mods for game engines that are only availabe on the PC.

This mod is not even available for the mac. And I don’t believe there are mods for Mac games, if there are please correct me by giving me examples.

http://forum.unity3d.com//viewtopic.php?t=9420

Wow! A web game! Dang, I’d better make sure my machine can handle it! This is sure to distract me from doing anything on ZBrush for the next year or so.

I’m not saying it will suck or anything. Just that it certainly won’t be Gears of War or Half Life 2.

so what are you saying? only blockbuster games are games? you stated all games are made on pcs and then pointed to a mod/indie team that is doing development on the mac. but i agree that you’re pretty much right - pcs dominate the market. that’s why you don’t see many mac mods.

radiant is available for the mac which is what you’d use when modding quake, doom, rtcw etc. i don’t know any teams that have specifically said they’re mac but i’d assume someone wanted it enough that it got ported. so, i’d have to guess there are some mac mod teams. certainly the minority tho.

as far a web game being inferior, unity’s very powerful. i’d expect the web effort on iron grip to be at least equal in quality to what they’ve done in source. one exception being that they don’t have zbrush 3 on the mac - wanting that i think is the point of this thread… :wink:

(at least we can be pretty sure isotx has pcs they can run zb on)

That’s not a graphical consideration. “Casual” gaming is far more disruptive than “Hardcore”, since it doesn’t feel like you’re spending the time. It’s like flipping channels on the TV vs actually committing to watch something.

Engaging gameplay will eat your time regardless what it looks like. Marriages have ended over something as crappy-looking as the Sims…

I mean, I’m not talking about putting ZBrush aside for a year while you obsess over one game. I’m talking about hesitating for 10 seconds while you decide whether you really feel like working. And being slightly more prone to lose an hour or two every couple of days. That’s it.

…but between eating and sleeping and working and driving, let alone any kind of social life, how many hours do you really have left?

To be clear, I’m not against gaming. I’m against gaming in your work space. In the same way that I’m not against TV, but feel that it should be turned off when you’re not actively watching something. (If you’re holding the remote control for more than a few seconds, it’s all over.)

If it’s a toy, it doesn’t belong in the toolbox. And the toybox doesn’t belong in the tool shed.

The breakfast cereal I just ate wasn’t going to be a firetruck either. But I think cereal tastes better, and if you’re not rushing to put out a fire, that’s the choice I’d go with.

shrug

So if a 3D artist surrounds his office workspace with action figures and scale models, that’s a bad thing because he is going to be tempted to play with them?? I said it before and I’ll say it again, just because something “fun” is installed in my hard drive does not mean I will be tempted in the least to use it while working.

I mean, seriously, it’s not as if these games automatically pop up on top of my ZBrush window and send me messages. With that mentallity, then you might as well not have the internet connected to your machine…ever. Lord knows that’s the biggest distraction of all. It sounds like to me that you’re someone who is easily distracted by things. First of all, I cannot even imagine wanting to load a game while I’m doing work and then minimizing the game and then going back to work again on ZBrush or 3DS MAX. Just minimizing those two windows is frustrating enough. And then there’s all the saving I have to keep on doing and the all the memory/processor resources that gets taken up by having two graphic intense programs running. I mean have you ever exited out of ZBrush after 5+ hours of work and having used up more than half a gig?? Have you ever noticed how long your hard drive takes to dump all those temporary memory before you can go ahead and do something else on your computer?

It’s not only those things that keep me from playing games while working, it’s also that I don’t want to be playing games while working because I’m having too much fun modelling already. So why would I be distracted by something that’s not boring me? Why would I be distracted from doing something I love? I consider it a privilage just to be able to use a powerful and professional tool like ZBrush. “Playing” on such programs feels better and more rewarding than playing on any game. When I want to create something, build something, make something come alive I see true the end. I think every true artist should have that kind of passion and I’m sure you feel the same way. And not even hunger or sleep will stop me. The only “distractions” I have are my MP3 player and T.V., but that’s only to keep me awake during the nights.

And for the record, most of my days are spent on modelling. I only spend 2 and half hours at night max on games and not even many games. I’m a gamer only because I spend time dedicated to just one or two games at a time. Nor do I play every night. I’d say once or twice on weekdays and then maybe 3 hours max on the weekends. And even then, I only ever play if one of my close friends are online playing the same game. Now if you feel you would be more distracted by these things than me or would have to spend more time on games than the time I just described than you’re more of a hardcore game than I will ever be. And besides, I don’t even own any consoles, never have and never will. My all in one PC is all I will ever need for creativity and fun.

And threads on ZBrushCentral mentioning the word ‘Mac’ it seems.

We mac users play ‘life’ not ‘games’

Life is a game, my friend. Published by Milton Bradley, if I’m not mistaken.

Make love, not war…craft

From ID Softwares website under job listing for 3D Character artist (http://www.idsoftware.com/business/jobs/index.php) -

(pay attention to the words in bold)

Position:

3D Character Artist

Project:

Unannounced

Applicable Platforms:

PC, XBOX 360, PS3

Job Duties:

Conceptualizing, Modeling, and Texturing High-poly Game Characters

Required Tools:

Any major 3D package, Mudbox, Zbrush, Modo, Photoshop and/or similar tools

Requirements:


  • 2+ years of game industry experience as an artist
  • Significant contributions to at least 1 AAA shipped game
  • Substantial examples of current and past work demonstrating a strong understanding of form, silhouette, shape, texture, color and lighting.
  • Extensive experience and mastery of relevant 3D and 2D toolsets
  • Self-motivated, but able to take feedback and criticism and properly reflect comments in work.
  • Excellent team player with very strong work ethic and a collaborative/cooperative attitude
  • Passion for games and gaming
  • An understanding of and appreciation for milestones, schedules, deadlines and efficient game development processes.
  • Excellent oral and written communication skills
'Nuff F*in said!