Hi everyone, I am new..........

[Wolf]

........and I probably make a dog’s breakfast out of my introduction, i.e. uploading and signing.

The reason I am here is the fact that programmes are changing but old habits don’t. Let me explain:

I used to do my thing in Photoshop and if you want to be recognised in the ‘Grahpics World’, you have to. Therefore the professional elite is looking no further and is missing opportunities.

I had a look what PSP7 can do and found that it is much more efficient and faster then Photoshop at 90% of the things I need.

The same applies to 3D. Unless I need active modelling I can use Z-Brush instead of 3D Max for most stills. It’s much faster.

The poster below was done with PSP7, KTP6 and a bit of Z-Brush at an afternoon. So don’t be intimidated by snobs. The tools, which are creative, are helping to be creative and not a slave. (Mind you, I don’t like the hopping and diapering interface of Z-Brush too much. I am always chasing after it. I think that could be improved)

[juandel]

stunningly beautiful! whoooohoooah! you make me howl!

[upham]

Hey, cool! Someome from Australia (finally!)
Good to meet you Wolf. (good handle!)
Will the poster be used in the 2002 Digital Art Awards? Cool. I hear what you say about the PSP7 app, but it comes down to personal choice. What ever works best for you. What got me through a fine arts school was a quote by a comic book artist - Simon Bisley - "If it makes a mark, use it!", Thou I've got to admit ZBrush is like no other application I've used and you can get an oridginal look and style, unlike any other program. Get into it, and it will give you an advantage over the others, much quicker!
How long have you been using it? Do you need a hand? I'd be glad to help.
Upham.

PS. If you don't like the interface too much then you can make a large floating menu of your most used tools. Just hold the CTRL button and click'n'drag a button of your choice onto the floating menu (except buttons from the TOOLS menu).

[Kathy]

Welcome Wolf!

I have to agree with the Photoshop statement. I personally don't use it. Probably never will. After having it shoved in my face at my last gig, I wasn't that impressed. To me, Photoshop is like Frontpage, it thinks for you, therefore, you loose control. I haven't found not using it a negative to my career though. Although, I have had to "prove" my other software to people.

Personally, I use the tool that best fits the job. End of story. My life is nothing but deadlines, and therefore, time is of the essence and if one app can get the same result only faster, well then I use it without prejudice.

The whole subject reminds me of programmers.
C++ guys hate VB. Delphi guys think C++ is a dog. Of course they are all cutting their noses off to spite their face. Each has it own's strengths.

I feel it will be those that have an eclectic knowledge as far as apps, who will stand out as far as their work.

If you use Photoshop alone, well then anyone smart enough to figure you out, can mimic it.

*putting soapbox away*

That's all I have to say about that.

[Zoid]

Hello Wolf

I don't think that there are any snobs here. There is a little hostility towards Poser People though, and the emotions seem to run a little high in the head modeling department.

ZBrush seems to play well with other programs, and that's just another nice thing about it. Did you see Uphams post in the head modeling tut. part 1? I don't know much about other 3D programs but this idea of modeling a shape and then unwrapping the surface and exporting it to another program to work on and then putting back on is pretty cool. I like your attitude about just getting the job without getting hung up on other things.

Nice poster too.

[Kathy]

Now that you bring it up, Zoid, do you or anyone else, know WHY there is hostility towards Poser? Or is it just the normal my app is bigger than your app posturing??
HMmmmmmmmmm anyone care to comment?

I would be most interested in TECHNICAL viewpoints, not emotional "i thinks". (cause everyone is entitled to opinion. I'm looken for facts.

[CDEdwards]

Looks nice Wolf.

Kathy, nothing personal against Poser. I just think that it costs way too much for a tool that is mainly used only for figure posing. I feel the same way about many other software packages also. Some of them are worth the money, like PaintShop Pro, and though it's expensive, ZBrush's versatility makes it a good buy.

[A l m a r K]

Wolf, you are most welcome. Good to see you here.

[Zoid]

Hi Kathy,

When I said "hostility" I was just making a reference to Robotalks good natured jabs at the use of Poser. If you think about it we are all guilty of using ready made primitives to get our images going. The ones in poser are just a little more complex, and get you down the road a little faster.

As far as dual processing goes, I bet you will see an improvement mostly in rendering time. Please let us know if this is true.

[Nikko]

As far as using Poser objects goes, you're starting out with an object that's already been created, taking all the craft out of the forming of it with Zbrush. But if you take that object and distort the hell out of it and really make something new, make it your own creation, what is wrong with that? Especially if you can't tell it was originally a Poser object when you are through with it.

I guess it just boils down to each individual and how they feel, in their own conscience, about the work they create. I would rather create something completely from scratch, as I would feel better about my own work that way. That's just me.

BUT although I am not planning on using Poser figures or objects in my Zbrush creations, maybe something will come up where it will save me time to utilize that program. Isn't that justification enough? Time is money, right?

Riding both sides of the fence......

[Kathy]

This could be the crux of the situation.
Pride. (not the bad kind, the good kind)

Both my husband and I write code (my husband is far more advanced in more complex languages of course)

BUT

If a component is already made, and available, and meets the need. We use it. We then write to it, reference it, or call it, thereby creating a whole new train of code.

I don't have less pride in my work because I used a component already built. I believe my pride lies in the fact I was smart enough NOT to waste my time in recreating the wheel.

NOW

If I used the component as a way to AVOID learning how to make it myself, well, that's cheating in a way. Now you can say, well shoot Kathy, you took someone else's work just to hide, avoid, or otherwise NOT gain that knowledge yourself.

Back to graphics:

IF I can utilize an existing object (legally and ethically, I'm not talking pirating here) and then meet and need and expand on that basic object. I take pride in that because again, I did not waste my time in recreating a wheel (and charging a client $60 an hour to do it) but rather intelligently applied an existing situation/object to complete a job to the best of my ability. Ok, I'm proud again.

I think we have to be careful here, because if you look at Photoshop, you are doing the same thing.. Plugins are someone else's handy work. So do you say, that's cheap. You are not building that from scratch.

I don't use Photoshop. I am classically trained in the arts and manipulate basic brushes to get to that point. Recreating the wheel? Maybe. But I dare a Plugin to match my work. I haven't seen any photoshop person do it yet (and I've challenged a few)

I LOVE a good jab (that's made in kindness). So I don't mind the ribbing at all. I certainly don't take it personal.

But, whether someone "borrows" an existing object and completes a larger thought, or if that same person builds from scratch; he/she deserves the respect of an artist using tools at their disposal to create, art.

*soapbox tucked away now*

I wish everyone great success as they seek their own definition of same. Whether original, borrowed, or refurbished. It's all still new.

[Zoid]

Kathy,

That was a really great response to a subject, and really wraps it up well.Thanks.

[Wolf]

Thank you everyone for welcoming me. I am glad I found this site. You guys seem to have the capacity to argue, without opposing.
Offcourse, everyone has his way of doing things and it really doesn’t matter if I belief that they are right or wrong. What’s more important is that what I do is open to discussion and that can only happen if I listen and learn. I only have to defend if someone is trampling on my toes but not if an argument is kept inert.

You all have very good and interesting points and perhaps I can push another one into the barrel, and that is the fascination about software. Kathy mentioned it perhaps a bit different from what I would like to say and that is the spectrum, which accommodates the junky on one side and the user on the other.

The distance one keeps from the tools one uses is reflected in the finished product. The use of Plugins can be subtile ore extreme. A good example is the use of ‘Flood’ by Flaming Pear. Otherwise good artists are dragged down by the fascination of this software and lose all control, and suddenly everything they do is now wobbling.

That is the danger of software that does most of the things for us. So it’s up to us how we use it ore misuse it. Like I said before, the tools are not an easy way to gain creativity, they are only tools. Just because a saw is very sharp, I don’t go around and cat of all the legs I can find.

Perhaps this pix underlines what I try to say; using bit of everything sparingly.

[Nikko]

Kathy: BRAVO! Very well defended. You can step up on that soapbox any time you want.

[Digits]

I would like to add my welcome to the fray.

I love discussions about what makes art thou it is obvious to me the artist is what makes it his or hers. Heh, the basis of all there is or will be is man's use of tools. I could go on and on but I think you and Kathy said it best. Any jabs at poser people are as far as I can see good natured and good humored, nobody can deny the art of Will Kramer and others.
Anyhoo, glad to have you aboard