1. #136
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    Default time spent on zbrush environment textures

    Sorry to jump in on this so late, but what's the average time it took to create one of these tiling environment textures in zbrush? Which types were one were the most difficult?

    Thanks for your time.
    "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life."

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgagen
    Sorry to jump in on this so late, but what's the average time it took to create one of these tiling environment textures in zbrush? Which types were one were the most difficult?

    Thanks for your time.
    Hi Don, average set of texture (diffuse, specular, blend, height, transparency, normal,detail, environment,.. etc.)takes a day or two (more or less). Usually we make two or three versions.

    Its usual to model base geometry using Maya (lets say making a stone wall)and then in Zbrush add all the detail work on individual pieces and probably layer it with dirt , moss or ornaments...also for each version we make a damaged version to blend with the undameged set.

    The ones with relief carvings. If you want to create a replica of a real piece that people recognize or if it should look exactly as your concept. These take more time.

    Hope this helps.
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    Last edited by Behrooz Roozbeh; 02-21-10 at 08:48 AM.
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  3. #138
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    Hey, I just finished uncharted 2 and thought the character models were incredibly well done. Thanks for contributing to such an awesome game.

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    That's exactly what I needed to know. Thanks! Outstanding work BTW.

    Take care,
    D
    "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life."

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    Hey Behrooz,
    I couldn't find if this question was asked before, but how do you deal with those tiled textures normal map wise, do you fix them in photoshop first and offset them properly to make sure they work properly for tiling and then do the diffuse afterwards? or is there another process into it.
    Because i dont think there was anything but a plane used for most of the pictures you posted to be projected on, most seems like high ceiling walls or just normal walls you pass by throughout the game. Even though that uncharted used more polys this time around in the game, i assume the walls were 1 poly plane surfaces right?

    I have to play the game again ;s and spend more time on the environment design to see how much polygon was used on the structures, cause I've seen cracks and what not being actually modeled into the walls and floor but getting my head around the fact that its been tiled is a little hard haha.
    by the way i love your texture work by the way, I'm starting to love texture artist position more than level design now!
    Thanks for your time,

    Ameer

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    Quote Originally Posted by ameer
    Hey Behrooz,
    I couldn't find if this question was asked before, but how do you deal with those tiled textures normal map wise, do you fix them in photoshop first and offset them properly to make sure they work properly for tiling and then do the diffuse afterwards? or is there another process into it.
    ......

    Ameer
    Hey Ameer, Danny,
    I had a couple of other private messages asking your questions so here is a quick rundown of the process i use...

    Step 1 - When I start my tile-able texture I am assuming each 512x512 texture covers 2.5 to 3 meter of ground/wall ..test your engine for the optimal resolution (depends on mipmaping distance..anything further than 3 meter from camera may mipmap to lower detail level and 1024x1024 resolution texture map will be a waste of your texture memory budget.
    HINT:when working in zbrush use as big a document as your system allows (2K or 4K)to add all your cool details, for your final texture use 512 size.
    Texture-dimensions.jpg


    Step2- find good references and call out a couple of good reference images(I use Aperture for my image collection..use keywords to help your search wall, windows, doors, etc.) ..I also subscribe to cgtextures.com for references

    Step3- Using photoshop I figure out my tiling grid patteren and test the grid texture on the geometry to make sure its reading well. Again checkout cgtextures.com under the tutorials tab for tiling complex patterns ..there you will find a bunch of other good texturing technique/tutorials you may want to read and find useful.
    tilea-able-grid.jpg

    Step4- Using Maya I model my grid using quad polygons...export geo as obj file
    maya02Screen.jpg

    Step5- import obj maya file and use Zbrush to detail the blocks.
    groundtile-zbr.jpg

    Step 6- Use Zbrush's material grab and export Normal, diffuse color, specular, cavity,.. etc. versions.
    paved-blocks-color.jpg paved-blocks-specular.jpg paved-blocks-cavity.jpg

    Step7-Use photoshop to composite and touchup your final texture
    paved-blocks-final.jpg


    NOTE: for the real final texture i will spend time and add chewing gum; cigarette butts; twigs, oil spots; squashed insects,..others details to make it a bit more interesting texture.

    Learn about and download Layer shift here:
    http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=034651 Learning series by Ryan Kingslien.
    Also refer to Zbrush classroom go to http://www.pixologic.com/zclassroom/homeroom/
    look for tutorials by Sebastian Legrain.

    Here is a screenflow movie of zbrush process, enjoy!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLTRTTOgTAM

    Hope this helps.
    Behrooz<--“No matter where you go, there you are.” ....The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension
    Last edited by Behrooz Roozbeh; 02-22-10 at 12:27 AM.
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    NEATO!
    Thanks for the quick reply Behrooz I'm working on my finals < exterior and interior designs> , and I was just experimenting with the wall tile sets and ground tile sets, looking through alot of Kevin Johnstone 's stuff and his guide of "how to" and "where to" start. this was perfect timing for it.
    If you dont mind me asking, how do you bake your ambient occlusion maps, inside of maya/max or using a shader program.
    Im working with unreal engine right now but im sure Naughty Dog Engine should be very awesome to work with :0

    /drool over "Environment Artist" job position in naughtydog




    Thanks again for the info

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    Quote Originally Posted by Behrooz Roozbeh
    Step 6- Use Zbrush's material grab and export Normal, diffuse color, specular, cavity,.. etc. versions.
    n
    never mind got my answer! thanks alot that was alot of real good info!
    i haven't used zbrush to that extent yet, i still yet to learn alot from zbrush.
    I just saw the links too, gonna try it out right away
    Ameer,

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    Quote Originally Posted by ameer
    NEATO!
    ... how do you bake your ambient occlusion maps, inside of maya/max or using a shader program......
    You are very welcome. nice concept work!

    check out uv layout shading networks for baking lights into textures using mental ray,

    Look for the 2002 lecture/DVD by Rob Ormond as part of the Siggraph Maya Learning seminar explaining the technique..

    http://vfxkorea.tistory.com/entry/***48376;***47928;...s-Applications

    part two of the DVD talks about using shading tricks to baking lights into textures.

    Good luck!

    Behrooz<--Follow the white rabbit.
    behrooz roozbeh.........digital artist
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    great techniques there. I would like to ask where are you baking your hard-body inorganic hires models in? Care to share your settings, since i've always had trouble transfering the hi-res details of my inorganic models to their lo-res counterparts. The details(like bevels) always look lame, often shadowy like light is not hitting the surface properly and sometimes, the bevels don't necessarily comform to the surface of the lowres model resulting in jagged detail that i often have to retouch and fix in photoshop.

    I did a gun before in maya and baked the hires to the lowres version in maya, the result was good only if i had the lo-res models normals' edge smooth maxed to soft and then viewed at hi-quality rendering, and if i baked the maps from the hires to the lowres with this smoothing as well(since maya's baking yields different looking normal maps based on different edge smoothing groups). But i heard that the display there doesn't neccessarily appear what it would be in the engine, since if the normals are smoothed to its max it will appear soft and pasty and not hard-edged at all which is not the desired result. What would be your solution to this? A collegue mentioned to me, If you want to check what it will look like in a game engine, rendering the model in mental ray would display a closer approximation, is this true?

    Care to show your workflow when transfering the hires details from zbrush model to the lowres ingame mesh for inorganic- hard edged models, esp. when the tri-count of these models are really low.
    Birth, Life, Death, Heaven...........3d space.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinian
    great techniques there. I would like to ask where are you baking your hard-body inorganic hires models in?
    Thanks. no baking is necessary, textures( color , normal,..) are the final product...since the texture is applied straight to the polygon object (ie. simple plane) using the usual uv mapping... next time I get some free time will do a demo. see if this helps for now:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hANTXvM4V0M

    Behrooz<--The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.--Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
    Last edited by Behrooz Roozbeh; 02-22-10 at 12:31 AM.
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    Hi,

    > check out uv layout shading networks for baking lights into textures using mental ray,

    Just to know cause I am curious
    If I understand, you bake your ambient occlusion generated with mental ray in diffuse texture,

    but what about the static lighting ?

    Do you use lightmap for static lighting of your environment (simple or directional lightmap ?). Are they generated with mental ray ? I heard, some time ago that Naughty dog has a specific tools to generate light intensities then color these light after, which avoid to redo a full light calculation process when changing light settings.

    Thanks for any light on this

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebalo
    Hi,

    > check out uv layout shading networks for baking lights into textures using mental ray,

    Just to know cause I am curious
    If I understand, you bake your ambient occlusion generated with mental ray in diffuse texture,
    ....
    Hi Sebalo,
    Nope, Thats not how we bake our lights...I was just answering Ameer's question about the general technique. We have specialized lighting tools, its out of my scope to explain here, Please refer to GDC2010 for more info:

    Uncharted 2: HDR Lighting
    Speaker: John Hable (Programmer, Naughty Dog)
    Date/Time: Saturday (March 13, 2010) 3:00pm — 4:00pm
    Location (room): Room 305, South Hall
    Track: Programming
    Secondary Track: Visual Arts
    Format: 60-minute Lecture
    Experience Level: Intermediate

    Session Description
    This session talks about HDR Lighting in Uncharted 2. The main focus will be Gamma/Linear-Space Lighting, Filmic Tonemapping, and Screen-Space Ambient Occlusion. Throughout the session, we will talk about all the little details that no one tells you, like why our SSAO only affects ambient light, how our highlights avoid clamping, and if specular maps should be stored in linear or gamma space.

    Intended Audience
    This lecture is intended for anyone who understands shaders, including engineers and artists. This presentation focuses on concepts and tradeoffs as opposed to hard-core implementation details.

    Takeaway
    Attendees will learn about our approach to HDR Lighting, as well as general color management. They will also hopefully learn more about managing light in a scene.

    Behrooz<-knowledge worker.....Shop Class as Soulcraft
    Last edited by Behrooz Roozbeh; 02-22-10 at 07:50 AM.
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    Ok, thank you,
    I have the good luck to be able to follow this conference at GDC,
    I am very exicted by these topic

    thanks to share your knowledge on this forum. Uncharted 2 is really a great success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebalo
    Ok, thank you,
    I have the good luck to be able to follow this conference at GDC,
    ....
    Eventually rest of us will find it online too

    Behrooz<- Laughing without an accent
    Last edited by Behrooz Roozbeh; 03-06-10 at 07:54 PM.
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