Building Rapid Prototype 3D Models from Zbrush Files Tutorial

[spaceboy412]

I suppose i would be interested if i finish a model that i think would be worth printing
Can you elaborate on why the poly count effects the price?
I did understand what you're saying about operating costs, its just too bad, cause i would think that if it was overall cheaper, then companies would have more people interested and they would make the same amount of money etc. its funny cause i remember well over 10yrs ago a newspaper article saying how we'd have these devices at our homes like our normal printers, i suppose one day that will happen but it still seems very far off.

[Davinci990]

Lemo,
Thanks for the fascinating look at "lost foam" casting. (too bad my HOA would never allow glowing ingots in the dirt... but it's fun to imagine appalling the fascists.

shhark,
thank you for such comprehensive work in your posts. From my own tedium with Googling this subject a year or so ago, I can tell just looking at this thread, that y'have it in hand. I'm lurking.

RE: 2.5D Routing
Asking a noob question of the assembled experience here=

Could a Zscript be capable of bookmatching a ZB file before export, so I could at least run model halves through something like a CarveWright?
http://www.carvewright.com/cms/video

With CW, I'm not talking scrolls and low relief-- with bookmatching, I'm inverting a mould-making process in carving both positive halves, true? Since CW will accept what appears (in the video) to be 4x16 stock of some length, apparently I could attempt to batch cut a scene of models and join them. I'd need tests for poly count limits but ZB does amazing work at low counts.

If not, maybe I could develop a register jig for work-in-turn, and coax CW to rout in the round. This is from a few days of mulling... Comments?

[lemonnado]

Don't waste your time with a CarveWright... Research the forums carefully before you buy one. All I say is cheap 'flex shaft driven high speed tool'.
There are other alternatives which cost about 1000-1500$ more and have hundred times more precision and are made 100% in the US and not in one of the foreign countries which flood us with junk. If interested, PM.

And yes, you can invert a model and create a mold. Then machine it into something to wither receive wax for further investment casting or, what I actually tried with success, directly a aluminum/zinc alloy (die cast metal).

Cheers
Rainer

[shhark]

Spaceboy-

Polycounts don't really effect price but if I'm going to offer a group build then multiple models will have to share the same tray so they can be built together. The Objet software (Objet Studio) can only handle 250MB per build. Large polycounts mean large files sizes which mean fewer models that could be on a tray per build. That is why decimation, retopology, and careful modeling practices all help when creating your model. So polycount is really only applicable to me offering a group build.

[lemonnado]

Josh, I think you would have a lot of success for that group build when you would offer 'compartments'. Make it fixed cubic inche 'slots' with a fixed amount of polygons. Someone could then step up and buy a group slot with a certain amount of polygons and would know that he will receive a model of that size made with the file which contained so many polygons. To much choices usually ruin a concept. I don't know the envelope of the system you will use for that idea but if it would be 10x2x2inches then you could offer 5 slots with 2x2x2 inches volume and 50MB polycount for a fixed group price.
Just a thought...
Rainer

[shhark]

lemonnado-

You seem to know your stuff... pretty much right along the lines of what I'm thinking. Might have 3 size/price tiers. Early setups look like maybe 1x2x2, 2x2x2, & 2x2x4 "slots" as you called them. Prices would be relative to which slot you pick. Once we fill up a tray then we print & ship. Right now I'm really trying to work on how to get the price down as much as reasonably possible. Polycounts will probably be capped @ 25k or 25MB file size which happen to generally coincide. That means I could run 10 models on one build & split the build cost up between them all. I'll start running #'s next week & hopefully get something workable together soon.

[Davinci990]

Thanks, Lemo I will PM; really frantic right now so I'm putting it off, but I knew I couldn't afford even a cheapie multi-axis CNC. Besides, most work may be slip-cast porcelain or plaster. lol--I didn't think of SIGGRAPH for alternatives!... I appreciate your help.

shhark,
I am reminded of an experience from Lemonnado's idea of slots-- High-fire pottery kilns have been gang-filling space for a wide range of objects and customers, selling space by cubic inches and temperature required.

Like short-run offset litho offering a certain ink and paper of the day, one potter was offering special pricing if the customer could wait (e.g., Saturdays she ran a filled "Cone 6" kiln). For your purposes, aggregating hobby/amateur projects may be a low risk way to cross-train your crew?

[lemonnado]

I think we are up to something really cool here. Thanks a lot Shhark for putting energy into this. If this works, maybe there is a chance of ratcheting it up a notch further in the future and create a subscription. That would enable warranted batch cycles and take more risk of your shoulders and more continuity for anyone else involved. And... honestly... even if there is no strong demand... everyone can come up with 'something' to not loose the paid slot...

But I guess it would be great to get that first ever batch going. Communities like this have proven to be very enthusiastic in the begin and then to numb to follow up. Specially when it involves money. Freeloading is always appreciated but charging even the littlest amount for a fair compensation will be condemned and frowned upon; I am curious how this will work out .

Just brain storming here...
Rainer

[Plakkie]

I must say I haven't got a clue what you guys are talking about. I hope there will be some easy to follow summaries with pictures now and then?

[shhark]

lemmonado-
I agree about the $ issue. That's really what I'm trying to work out more than anything. More than likely I will be able to offer a deeply discounted price for Objet parts, but I certainly can't give them away & the price may still be higher than some other processes. Although the Objet parts are superior I understand that cost is a big factor & some may not take into consideration the value for the resolution over simply getting just any printed model, no matter how poor the quality.

I'm open to creative thinking about how to organize & ultimately pay for educating the ZB community & establishing a well understood and reliable pipeline for using ZB for 3D output. I wonder if Pixologic as a company would have any motivation in participating in some kind of way? Anyway I'm committed to giving it a try and letting the chips fall where they may.


Plakkie-
I promise I'll lay it all out in the simplest terms with as little techno or industry speak as possible. I expect there may be some hand holding the first time around & am prepared to handle that as best I can. I understand that while many may have heard of the processes most are not familiar with the details. That is why I'd like to give everyone a chance to try it out with some kind of introductory step. Hopefully we can crack an egg here & get something special happening with expanding how we're all applying ZB!

[Pride]

Think of it this way Plakkie....you have a piece of furniture you wish to get from Haaksbergen to Utrecht. If you find a truck going from Enschede to Amsterdam and "backload" the small piece it will be cheaper than paying for it as a single job.

[Plakkie]

Thanks Shhark, me personally, I've never seen a printing machine, let alone have had something printed. There are so many choices and techniques that it can be quite daunting. I'd welcome all info that would make it easier to understand. Make this thread something for experts ánd laymen.

Pride, I actually understood that! Thinking cheap is what's Holland's all about.

[mike hovland]

Well, so you all have some more information, I went out and visited with Josh, and had a tour of his facility.

He has a very nice shop, very clean and professional. Josh was more than willing to hang out and answer any questions we had. The variety and quality of the work he produces is exceptional. From small toys, to large custom pieces for some pretty big names in all fields (don't know if he wants to blow his own horn, so I'll keep names to myself).

Now, the photos he posted don't do justice to the quality and resolution of the parts. The smallest demo soldier he showed us, while it had some issues here and there held an amazing amout of detail. You can see the seam where the glove meets the hand.

The demo head was suprisinginly detailed at such a small size.While the head itself seems small, if you think of a proportional body included with the head, you realize that for most print jobs of a character, this size should be enough.

The larger dinosaur head (the blueish colored one) was amazing. The teeth were all very sharp and pointy, and there were even very small gaps between some of the teeth. The detail on the skin was fantastic, down to individual pebbles and scales. A proportional full body on the dino would easily be one of the largest dinosaur toys in my boys' collection.

We were very impressed with the shop, Josh's willingness to take the time and answer questions, not to mention the quality of the parts.

Now all we need to do is figure out what to have printed

[shhark]

Thanks for to plug Mike- truly appreciated! It was my pleasure to show you guys what we do. Looking forward to working with you.

Hey Plakkie-
Here's an image of how Objet's Polyjet printing process fundamentally works. I'll post a movie on our website soon for a better demonstration.

-Still working on the group build but will post details soon.

[lemonnado]

I forgot... at the end of this thread http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/sho...&page=14&pp=15 you can find a sample of Pride's and my work.
Cheers
Rainer