Elfquest Sculpting Odyssee

[Plakkie]

AngelJ: thanks! I really need the tips to improve, some things I just don't see until someone makes a remark about it.

I made some eyelids. A bit hard if you didn't plan for it, but ZBrush' progressive subdivision levels got me there eventually. The eye corners need more work: I just found a picture in a anatomy drawing book that might help me with it.



Also I plucked up the courage to add yet more flesh to the lips. I do think it's closer to the mark. I never realized Cutter had such a tick underlip! Shows that really observing is much different then simply looking at a picture.



Next stop: the nose. It doesn't look right yet. Wendy Pini just drew a few lines and there is a nose. In 3D you have to examine every curve and angle...

[AngelJ]

Plakkie- Good job, your hard efforts are showing in each pass. I'm sure you'll continue to fill out the face to help his masculine features. Forgive my poor markup but its for a basic example only of what I mean. The hard edges are to help define the contour as it would help the form giving him more man like roughness. The dark image plane on the eyes is to illustrate an area you could put in to define where his thick lashes would go without giving him individual lashes. Also helps give the eye the angular shape he tends to have.

[Plakkie]

Thans a lot AngelJ! That contour sketching gives a very good idea of the global contour! I'll try to make one myself to see how my model is in comparison with your masculine lines.

[huan80]

I really like where this is going Plakkie... I always like to see the more stylized stuff here. Zbrush can make scaly/wrinkly monsters better than anything else, but there's so much more to it. You've taken on a completely different kind of challenge here in representing a character that is defined in such geometrically ambiguous terms. Great job so far!

The one bit of advice that I'd give would be to thicken the nose up a bit. It's looking good along the x axis, but if you look at the reference images, it's thicker on y than you have it. I've been finding the transpose tools in conjunction with some creative masking invaluable for this kind of adjustment. (It happens quickly, and if you don't like it, ctrl+z. I love being a digital artist.)

As you update this WIP, I'd like to see what uses you find for the Topology tools... I've been devouring your topology lab thread since it started, gleaning what techniques I could for a labor of love of my own. This is really exciting stuff.

[Plakkie]

Thanks Huan! I haven't made wrinkly monsters yet... maybe I should have tried that first.
Glad you enjoyed the topology thread. I've learned much from it so far, and have used topology on this model already: I made the basic shape with ZSpheres, setting up a quick nose, eyesockets, and ears. After some sculpting I retopologized the whole thing which resulted in the base mesh I used for making the first post model. It really helps to have the polygons flowing in the right direction while sculpting. I already made so many changes that I plan to retopologize again when the headshape is as good as I can get it.

I've changed the nose again:



Bit more flesh on the Y-axis and a sharp curve where the forehead begins. I'm starting to like the sideview of it, but there is still something wrong with the sides of the flesh above the nostrils. (don't know the english name for it) Found more reference in one of the albums:



I also added again more thickness to the bottom lip. I think this is as far as I should go with that lip.



Keep bombing me with crits if you have any!
Cheers,
Plakkie

[The Namek]

Sorry ik ga het in het nederlands zeggen.

De aanpassing aan de neus is goed , maar als je vergelijkt met de comic, is de neusvleugel hoger

Ik hoop dat tekening het aantoont.



Keep going
edit : read just now that you knew about the issue yourself , sorry

[Plakkie]

Namek een medelander? Dat wist ik niet! Dank je Namek, je tekening laat duidelijk zien waar de schoen wringt, ik weet wat me te doen staat.

thanks Namek, looks like he's in for another nosejob!

[AngelJ]

Plakkie- Top of the tip of the nose is much better. Always nice to see you striving to get the most out of your attention to details. Your just about there with that nose. Doesn't have to be perfect as long as it looks convincing and its lot more that it was for sure. I'm awaiting the jaw/chin line fix and maybe tweaking the saliva ducts down a tad to give him a more neutral expression. Will be watching for more, you are really going after this project so cheers to you!

[Plakkie]

Such posts keep me going AngelJ! After some more nosetinkering I will push the chin-jaw to see what it does.
But whoa! What do you mean by saliva ducts? You want him to droole?
Do you mean the corners of the mouth or another specific part?

[Plakkie]

Phew! This isn't easy. (didn't expect it to be) I changed the nose. Closer, but I have disturbed the cheekflesh. I think I have to focus on the bone-structure of his face for a while before getting lost in the small details (although that is tempting).

[Bonecradle]

I think you are getting closer to your target, so keep moving those polys about.

Just a few little things that might help.

Maybe you could try using the tweak brush with a smallish size and pulling the corners of the mouth back towards the back of the head to increase the depression beside the mouth.

You might also try pulling a little bulge downwards out of the centre of the top lip. It's size and shape would follow the 'V' formed by the bottom of the groove below the nose.

You are right the the cheek needs a bit of work. I'd start by pulling the cheek below the centre of the eye forwards a bit.

I hope that might help.

[AngelJ]

Plakkie- Your doing great. As the o'l saying goes.. "No one said its going to be easy" or " Anything done right or worthwhile takes hard work". This is fun for those watching but I do feel your "pain". Keep moving in strides, take small breaks, come back and make changes accordingly before long you'll be done. Keep taking your time and getting your desired quality.

[RaelNorth]

I think this is one of my favorite things on the entire forum.
My suggestion: I think you actualy need to exaggerate his cheekbones a little more. Cutter's really stick way out there! Pull them out more, toward his ears and add a little more flesh to them under his eyes/define them at the corners of his nose.


BTW, what did this start life out as? A sphere3D? (New and trying to learn)

[Plakkie]

Bonecradle & Realnorth: some great tips you gave me there! I'll certainly include them in my next scupting session. It's interesting to see you both are telling me to push it more, make the formes more extreme and defined. My last couple of changes were very subtle one (with very low intensity settings), but if I want any striking resemblance I'll have to be more bold. Gonna try it all, thanks!

And Realnorth: this started out with a couple of ZSpheres. Big one for the head, one for the chin, and four for the extravagant ears. I'm not very handy with ZSpheres, so I left it at that and didn't make eyesockets or mouths or noses. I did that all later after I converted the ZSpheres into an adaptive skin. Fun thing with Zbrush: you could do this with a Sphere3D as well, or with a cube, or with an imported base mesh. Or even with the demohead that comes with Zbrush3. More ways to Rome.

AngelJ: thanks for the pat on the back. Yesterday it seemed to me I would never get there. My eyes have never looked at things like this, and the curves of a face are very complex and sometimes subtle. It's fascinating learning a bit about it by doing this. The feedback the forum users give me is a great teacher.

[Plakkie]

I took a shot at fixing jaw, chin and cheek, but I think I failed and have to try again next session.

Before I do so, I want to show you a picture and ask you all for an opinion:



- Yellow line: should there be a hollow there or should it be more filled?
- Blue / Purple line: should the cheeks curve following the blue line towards the nose, or should they follow more the purple line and gradually dissolve into the mouth area?
- Green line: should this line be made visible? (mouth muscles?)
- Pink line: should the jaw follow this curve, or remain more straight as it is now?

After the failed session I tinkered some more with him, especially on the lips, just to see if I would stuble upon a lucky adjustement. I don't think I did...



Crits and opinions more welcome then ever! (judging by the last picture )