1. #1
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    Default Performance problem in Paint mode

    Hi!

    I'm new to Sculptris and to this forum (in fact it is about the only forum I've ever joined) but after spending a few days with Sculptris, and realizing it might just be the most fun I've had in years, I decided to join.

    I'm an amateur illustrator, or rather, I spend a lot of my spare time with my two best friends - pencil and paper. Due to this hobby of mine I recently purchased an iMac and, coming from a mediocre PC, it is a world of difference. I'm currently waiting for my fresh copy of Photoshop CS5 and while I was waiting for a delivery from our friends at Adobe I ran across Sculptris.

    After looking through a few tutorials and using the tools for the first time I was stuck! So intuitive, so simple and yet such pleasing results (even for a complete beginner like me). Makes me curious about Zbrush and as a marketer I have to applaud the guys at Pixologic for realizing this. Simply brilliant!

    So far so good... Well, after having completed a first basic model (see attached jpeg) I decided to run a quick test of the Paint mode before I went all the way and added texture and detail. Unfortunately this is where my first disappointment came. Paint mode was running so slow it made my ancestors seem energetic in comparison. Although I have to admit, I did use more than enough triangles (just around 1,3 million or so..). But even so, I experienced no performance issues while in Sculpt mode, and even when I lowered the number of triangles to a mere 25.000 I experienced an excruciating amount of lag in Paint mode. So now I'm starting to think the trouble might be elsewhere? And what better way to find out than to make a first post in this great forum.

    Oh, thanks by the way for sticking with me on my above rant! Any answer as to why Paint mode is so slow, and how I can go about to correct this is much appreciated. In return I shall of course let you know how the model is coming along if anyone would be interested.

    iMac (late 2011)
    27 inch
    3,4 Ghz Intel Core i7
    8 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
    AMD Radeon HD 6970 2048MB
    Mac OS X Lion 10.7.2
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  2. #2
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    I'm starting to think I might be the only one experiencing this problem? No clue as to what might be hampering the performance? I've read about graphic card issues but I have no clue how to try to adjust it?

    Anyone? Any advice is welcome!

    Thanks!
    iMac (late 2011)
    27 inch
    3,4 Ghz Intel Core i7
    8 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
    AMD Radeon HD 6970 2048MB
    Mac OS X Lion 10.7.2

    Homepage:
    http://www.xavier.se
    Twitter:
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  3. #3
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    Default re-

    Did you say 1.3 mill tris in Paint Mode ? lol This is where Zbrush and Sculptris completely differ. In Zbrush you Poly-paint, this means that the vertices are assigned colors and a gradient is formed on the polygons in between, so for adding detail in Zbrush, the more the better it will be!. Sculptris it's just the opposite. That small amount of time it takes to get from Sculpt Mode to Paint mode is when Sculptris UV-maps your model. In Sculptris you're painting straight to texture. Hit the (t) key while in Paint mode and it will show you the texture image your painting. The difference is that in Sculptris, the color goes to the UV map coordinates where as in Zbrush the color info stays with the vertices. Also in Zbrush, you have subdivision levels and Decimation Master, the idea here is to project the details of your high polygon model onto your lower subdivision model using Texture Maps and Normal/Bum Maps. In Sculptris we are Painting straight to the Texture and Normal/Bump Maps and there's no need to put that much detail in the Model. There is a Reduce brush and Auto-reduce button that work great. Try reducing your model down under say 200K and see if it works a little better. You can Paint to the bump map using alphas and get all the little skin wrinkles and pimples in that way. Watch my Vid here on this Subject. Honestly I try and keep my models under 30K polygon.
    Last edited by justadeletedguy; 01-17-12 at 01:32 PM.

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    Thank you Justadeletedguy for addressing this and thanks for pointing me to your very helpful videos. I did realize that 1,3 million might have been a bit excessive but after having tested with models around 25.000 triangles and having trouble even at that amount I'm thinking there is something else giving my computer problems? The hardware is quite potent so I'm leaning towards some kind of graphic card setting? Unfortunately I'm not only a newbie in terms of 3D but also when it comes to Mac so I haven't got a clue how to fiddle with any such settings?

    Is there anyone experiencing anything similar on a Mac, and if so, how did you solve it?
    Last edited by Xach; 01-17-12 at 02:00 PM.
    iMac (late 2011)
    27 inch
    3,4 Ghz Intel Core i7
    8 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
    AMD Radeon HD 6970 2048MB
    Mac OS X Lion 10.7.2

    Homepage:
    http://www.xavier.se
    Twitter:
    http://twitter.com/XavierChris

  5. #5
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    Default Re

    I know a lot of people post their million poly models here and keep crying for more performance that they'll probably Never Get ! The problem is that Sculptris is a Game-engine type software that runs mostly on your Graphics hardware where as Zbrush runs on your CPU. Your machine must run pretty well to take it past a million poly, I get stuck at 150k ... But 1.3 mill mapped to a 2048 square map, if you printed just the wire frame black on white, the entire image would be black. Painting straight to texture you can get plenty of detail on a regular size model (under 100k) however your still stuck with the level of pixels the image will hold. Also Sculptris's UVs are terrible and it only uses about half the image. This is what all the posts about retopology are about. Using Blender, 3DCoat, Wings3d etc to rebuild, re-UV map your model to better geometry. For Sculptris renders and maybe some background game models Sculptris geometry and UV's are OK, but for upclose Ray-trace rendering or any kind of animation you'll probably want to learn to retopo.

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    One more thing, If you look at This Post in the Zbrush forum (I was clicking the thumbnails above), You can see a better example. Of course this is a Zbrush model but the details have been "baked" to the normal map of the Low-poly model, if you scroll around you can see both. With some good alphas and a little imagination, you can get this kind of detail painting to the Normal map in Sculptris. If you want to try to Bake your details there is an application called XNormal you can get for free, Blender can also do this. Blender does poly-painting as well, you might could paint your model with it, although I don't know how it will react to 1.3 mill tris, maybe I should have mentioned it earlier ....

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    Default Same problem

    I just started messing with Sculptris this week, and know the problem you are talking about. I think what the others are saying about how it uses your GPU over you CPU seems to make sense, and here's why I think that:

    I put Sculptris on my work computer, which is a pretty new MacPro 2.8 quad core xeon with 8gb ram.

    Whether the model is 100,000 or 800,000 triangles, the paint feature is so slow that it's unusable.

    However, I can take the same model home (890,000 triangles) and load it on my 5 year old PC and it is smooth as silk while painting. The machine was by no means a high end system when I got it (5 years ago) but I did build it for gaming, so that would make sense.

    The only thing I'm not sure about is that the Mac and the pc in question have nearly identical video cards, ATI 5K series, I think the PC card is slightly higher. I just don't know if that is enough to make the kind of difference I experience.

  8. #8
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    Default re

    You may need to tweak your graphics settings .. mipmaps, anti-aliasing, etc. ATI and Nvidia have seperate applications for this in Windows, I would think for Mac also but I don't know. Your settings really depend on the machine, but if it's less than 3 years, say dual-core and 512mb graphics card, maybe 1-2 Gig ram you should not have problems with this ..... However, don't have page-filing off .... this was an old trick for game performance on old XP machines, but can do more harm than good. Also, animated wallpapers and icons, widgets, gadgets and media players will all use the same graphics memory as Sculptris, music is fine but don't be watching movies while you're sculpting, especially on a laptop!!

  9. #9
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    I'm having the same issue.. the minute I go into paint the whole thing comes to a crawl.. not really much graphic card settings with Mac OSx... Esp with the Mini's which share the memory for both graphics and Processor.

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    Noticed this thread while looking for "trouble shooting" mentioned in the manual.

    I was following a video tutorial while using Sculptris - as soon as I hit "Paint", it froze and had to be killed with Task Manager, which shows two instances of Sculptris not responding.

    After seeing this thread, I realised what the problem was and killed the video. After that, it went really well - no lag at all painting and I thought the problem solved.

    Since then, I haven't been able to paint at all - sometimes it freezes on the first mouse click after doing the UV mapping, sometimes I can get in one stroke of paint before it freezes - even on the default sphere with no sculpting on it. Tried re-installing, to no avail.

    Seeing as how it did work once, and brilliantly, I doubt it is the graphics card. I'm using a pretty old ATi Radeon X1650 DDR2 PowerColor 512megs on Windows XP Home SP2, single-core, with 3Gigs DDR Ram. I've not done any settings on the Graphics card - all is at default.

    All other functions in Sculptris work perfectly.

    Is Sculptris painting just too much for my system? Fortunately, it does the UV mapping brilliantly, so I can paint in Carrara, but Sculptris is just so much better for this, I would prefer to do it in Sculptris.

  11. #11
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    is that a laptop .... if it's shared memory, you can use the Mobility Modder ... When I started all I had was a Dell D600 with a little Radeon M200 chip ... 128 mb shared memory graphics .... This allowed me to update drivers to Catalyst and add more memory to the card .. I had no problem running Sculptris in Sculpt and Paint Mode ... You should check also your setting .... Use Performance mode .. this will turn Mip Maps down on games and stuff, but will leave more memory for Sculptris. Also, You seem to have enough ram, Turn Page filing off, this will force XP to run from memory rather than disc cache .... XP was built back when computers had 32mb of ram and 5 gig hard drives ...

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    Thanks for the fast response. Sorry if I sound a bit dense, but I'm not very clued up on what goes on under the hood, so very wary of messing with settings.

    Firstly, no, it's a desktop.

    OK, took a look at Catalyst - the settings for 3d are Anti-aliasing and Anisotropic filtering are set to "Use application settings", Enable adaptive anti-aliasing and open GL Triple buffering are unchecked.

    Standard settings - use custom settings is unchecked, with the slider set midway between performance and quality.

    Catalyst AI - Disable Catalyst AI is unchecked, Mipmap level detail is set to the highest quality level. Should I turn this down to "Performance" ? - I don't do games, but have several other 3d applications.

    Where would I find page filing? I know, for instance, that in Carrara, the default page spooling has to be turned down for improved performance, but that is accessed in the application preferences.

    Your help is really appreciated.

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    Start Menu - (Right Click on) My Computer ... choose Properties - Advanced. Then find the tab about Memory ... turn page filing off .. then it will ask you to restart ... Try some of your other apps, make sure they work ....
    Turning off Page Filing is an old Gamers trick to make a system faster, If your not online you can also Temporarily disable antivirus, and turn off processes in the Task Manager ... But each of these can cause problems when running other software .. So just be careful and remember what you do !! ...

    Yes, Put Mip-Maps to Performance, Turn off Anti-Aliasing and Antroscopic filtering, and Vertical Refresh. Turn off any Tesselation and don't use Multiple Desktops or HydraVision.

    You can also move some of your less used Materials and Textures to a different folder and bring those list sizes down.

    It's like this .... You have a 512 mb card, When in Paint Mode you are painting to a Multi-Layer image .. like a PSD
    There's Color, Bump, Mask, Material for sure, and maybe a UV-Layer for reference, A 6 layer 2048x2048 psd saves at over 100 mb. Plus all your Material files are loaded in Memory. Plus your Graphics card works just like Photoshop. A Mip-Map is nothing more than a texture image copied and resized to 1/4. So we need to find ways to free up some memory to run Sculptris with .....

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    Thanks so much for your detailed explanation - I'll try it and let you know

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    Tried all of those tricks, with minimal improvement - at least it didn't stop responding immediately, but the lag in painting is so severe that it is not viable.

    I still have the feeling something has gone wrong within Sculptris, as painting worked perfectly when I first tried. I know that with Hexagon, for instance, when it crashes for no apparent reason, it is usually a corrupted preference file or MS C++ . These don't come right by re-installing as they are not deleted by unistalling.

    Just wondering whether there is something similar with Sculptris? Nothing obvious I could find.

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