1. #1
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    US
    Age
    30
    Posts
    107

    Default Models for a mod im working on

    These are some models im working on for a mod called Retribution the Great Game mod for Dawn of war 2 Retribution.

    These are some of the images of WIP models

    Bloodthirster

    Front

    Bloodthirster-1.jpg

    Back

    BloodthirsterBack.jpg

    Up close with teeth

    Bloodthirsterzoomedin.jpg

    Bloodthirsters Axe

    BloodthirsterAxe.jpg

    Eldar Striking Scorpion Helmet front

    FinishedStrikingScorpionHelm1.jpg

    Eldar Striking Scorpion Helmet back

    FinishedStrikingScorpionHelm3.jpg

    The Bloodthirster is WIP and the Eldar striking scorpion's grey is all team colorable.

    Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Link for the Mod in Relic News forums http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...(WIP-need-help)

  2. #2
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    US
    Age
    30
    Posts
    107

    Default

    I will be uplading some of the conept art that I used as a basis for the Bloodthirsters Axe and for the Striking Scorpion Helm

    Okay here are the concept images

    Axes.jpg

    StrikingScorpion.jpg
    Last edited by Aliasofall; 09-04-11 at 10:37 PM.

  3. #3
    New Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3

    Default

    everyone is free to show works here, but dude..... try to improve skill before you do it.

  4. #4
    New Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    17

    Default

    @I3yG...something: That's what he's trying to do, improve. At least point out one or two things and make suggestions, otherwise your post is nothing more than you trying to make yourself seem cooler by putting someone else down. Sheesh...

    Anywya...to the original poster...

    I have honestly seen FAR worse. The key thing I'm seeing is that your models seem to look kinda "blobby"; not any definable 'edge flow' or smooth silouette, so to speak. Do you use a drawing tablet like a WACOM? If not...get one. It will improve your models instantly. In order to 'smooth out' your blobiness problem, try using the Smooth option (generally, holding down SHIFT). Another method I use to 'smooth out' parts of a model is to use the Clay Tubes brush and brush in and around the depressions (or where I want to build up mass), then use SHIFT to smooth it out. Works best for organic models, like your demon. For inorganic, take a look on the Classroom pages here at Pixologic for the 'hard-edge' modeling tools. I think they had some video tutorials that show the making of a helmet and a car (?).

    One more tip; don't bother with any texture/painting at this stage. Just focus on the model. Once you get better at modeling, then you can up your game by getting into polypainting and whatnot. Learning the cool brushes and tools in ZBrush is more than enough to start with.

    Keep at it!

    ^_^

    Paul L. Ming

  5. #5
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    330

    Default

    i'm with pming here..


    especially if you're plan is to make something usable for a mod. the models you have made now are more then likely not gonna be suitable for use in a game engine as there's no clear edge flow and animation is gonna be really really rough on it


    before you start even getting into the painting you may be better off trying to learn retopo and how to create uv's . in order to get this model into a gaming engine you're going to need well defined edge flow and edge loops. a poly count below 10k per piece with significant details and necessary movement in it. extremely well defined UV's so that your eventual coloring can be converted to texture.. so that your high poly details can be converted to displacement and normal maps.. etc etc.

    i'm gonna go on a limb and guess that at the moment your model is somewhere around 3-5 million poly's with all details.
    consider the edge flow in this guy's models face :
    http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthr...305#post886305

    the high poly he has is still probably under 1 million polys and the low poly mesh is 8.5k tris. this could be animated and fit in with a game engine well. if you tried adding what you have now into a program that could be used to rig a mdoel for game animation then you're very likely going to melt your cpu trying to do so .. the thing you have to always always always keep in mind with zbrush is that you're not working in 3d. you're working with pixols/voxels presented in a 2.5d format. this saves your computer from meltdown situations by offloading alot of the math to the cpu and ram. Say you were using 3ds to create a riggable mesh and unreal editor as your animation system (not sure what engine dawn of war is using but i'm unrealed is a good place to look at for what an engine can handle.. and you can find it free now) in 3ds you're working in 3d so you need a gfx card that can handle pushing the total number of polys in yoru mesh at all times.. as well as the cpu power and ram ..

    think of it this way.. if your legs each have about 50k polys in them.. to animate them as is, if just for a simple animation path.. the cpu will be calculating over 5x more per animation then what it will take to animate that face from the link i posted. and a face is supposed to be one of the more heavy hitting animation areas in cpu and gpu strength. now imagine that scaled up to your full model. if you like playing your games at 1fps then it'd work for you


    if you want a healthy comparison point to see where what you have now stacks up.. try seperating just the head of your mesh into it's own subtool. clone it to a seperate tool. make some texture maps from it. and then run decimation master on it until you can get it down to 8k polys. see what all your detail and if you did textures fine what your coloring comes out to look like. it probably wont be pretty. Now decimation master wouldnt be making your models game worthy dropping the poly count like that... but it will show you your deficiencies and if you learn how to use the retopo tools, it will also give you a lower poly count mesh that you can built your new topology over and be a little bit closer to what you would need for a game engine


    i would never tell someone not to post things until they got better as i was in your shoes not too long ago with that... but i will say this much. if you have big plans and want to use zbrush to get them done... in those cases make sure you understand what your doing before bragging about the plans or you will find a lot of hecklers in the audience. game design is not easy, not even when just making a game mod. And zbrush in the very beginning makes you feel like a design god.. cause you THINK you're producing something awesome that you wouldnt have any problems using for a game mod.. but there are an amazingly large amount of considerations that you need to make before you will be able to do anything using zbrush within a production pipeline other then producing some nifty artwork for yourself. By the time you actually learn zbrush enough to produce ANYTHING that can be using in a mod for an existing game engine, you will almost with 100% certainty not be working on the same thing you started your idea with. By the time you make a model that would work you're gonna turn around and look at this one and repeatedly shake your head and wonder what the heck was i thinking there?

    i dont want to sound harsh with my crits but its something you really need to consider. when you're working on something for a game or movie or even just personal artwork you need to divide your tasks up either to yourself or among others. The first and foremost task is character design. what do you want your finished product to resemble. Then after you have that built you need to have it destroyed .. its a sad fact but the most ridiculous character creators in the industry can do amazing things with millions upon milllions of polys.. but then when that model gets in a game 99% of the detail gets thrown away into a texture file, and as close to the original as it may get the underlaying structure... isn't really. You basically will wind up making your model and then making a hollow box shaped like your model to project the details onto. shapes like it and organized so that areas that will be animated can be animated without looking ugly as sin. THEN after you have that you can worry about getting the high poly high quality details you have into the various bits and pieces of textures that the game engine uses .. making sure those textures apply correctly to the model as it's animated. make sure that if you plan on letting players assign colors.. that the model will actually allow it.

    it's ok to dream big and have plans but be realistic about them or you get yourself into situations where you WILL be dissapointed and dissapointment can force you to question why you're bothering to learn in the first place. i went through the newbie phase myself and read many a forum post from newbies that all show the same phase....
    1 wow zbrush is awesome.. i'm awesome.. look at what i made
    2 zbrush is awesome but damn it's hard to make things like others who've only been here for month's what's their secrets
    3 screw zbrush! damnit! why can't i get this what am i doing wrong! why is noone helping me! i'm making myself look like an idiot (this is the part alot of people quit at)
    4 man the zbc forums are awesome. if i look around i can learn everything thats causing me problems
    5 man the zbc forums are awesome and zbruish is awesome again. now that i'm doing ok and producing decent work people are coming out of the woodwork to help me get better

    If you're willing to learn something to make your goal possible then LEARN IT. don't just jump in assuming you have it and that you'll figure it out eventually. going without some set of personal direction will screw you up every time. But if you are really willing to learn it then you're at the right place and the people here if they feel they arent wasting their time will be more then happy to help you. Hell if it wasnt for people making me feel like my work was crap for over a year .. i wouldnt be at a point now where i think i can produce riggable set pieces for VFX for a movie a friend and me are working on. I don't expect perfection, but i'm planning on making something that can show off what i'm capable of doing and hope to do myself justice in the end. And that's after almost giving up on learning zbrush at all a few months back. Do yourself a favor now, while you're still in your early phases, and stop worry about making a mod... Worry about learning how to use the tools at your disposal to better yourself.. produce some artwork quality results.. figure out what's needed to truly be able to work on a game worthy model....AND THEN work on your mod after you're a bit more accomplished


    sorry for the long winded rant but you're gonna hear variations on all of this stuff until you "hear" it.. so best to get it all out of the way now

    -D
    Damien Trippeda .... Novice Zbrusher
    Sketchbook/Experiments: http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=154187

  6. #6
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Age
    56
    Posts
    104

    Default

    pming and dapharmer

  7. #7
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    418

    Default

    dapharmer summed it up

    I went straight into not knowing and spent quite some time on "animating" a 80k polygon mesh 1 year ago with messy topology. And I also made the mistake of believing my models where better then they was. I think this is a fase, probably a common one. I've had 1.5 years with ZBrush now, and I see where my model stand in terms of quality. I dont overestimate my work, but use my older works and other peoples works to see were i'm at.

    I think it's important to show off work, even if it's bad, only then people will be able to give you advices and help you improve. There are special cases where there are no improvement tho, but I guess those people dont really wanna learn in the first place and should find something else to do ^_^
    "It's never too late to learn a new skill" - Lex Luthor

    DeviantArt Gallery
    Gallery at 500px
    My music at Soundcloud

  8. #8
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    US
    Age
    30
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Thank you all for the replies these models are WIP so I apologize for there kinda incomplete looking.Im planning to continue to work on them and Im investing lots of time into learning everything I need to do the mod work and with the suggestion of the Wacom tablet im already planning on getting one

    The top one Im trying to make as detailed as this Super monster in game a 3v3 game can have three of these monsters in it.

    dow2-20100316-2319505-1024x640.jpg

    The second on follows this race design and this model is medium to high settings turned on.

    post-152648-1313443027.jpg

  9. #9
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    330

    Default

    hehe you do realize though that that high quality model in that image is an illusion right? ... for all it's detail the whole model is still probably no more then 20-24k poly's/tris. .. all of it is done with displacement and normal maps and other such techniques which is what makes the ram size of video cards so important. higher the ram size bigger the textures.. more the illusion works.


    thats why is so important to get your models organized well from the beginning because it lets you play magically with the final products detail levels.
    Damien Trippeda .... Novice Zbrusher
    Sketchbook/Experiments: http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=154187

  10. #10
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    US
    Age
    30
    Posts
    107

    Default

    I know a good majority of that look is an illusion Ive seen alot of peoples work that theyve done that style for games but you get what Im tryign to achieve its better to try then never try at all.

  11. #11

    Default

    Yup all smoke and mirrors through displacement or normal mapping. I like the idea you are getting into something that appears you are "biting off more than you can chew" THAT IS GOOD! What you learn from this will be very valuable in my humble opinion. Definitely get a tablet if you don't already have one. Using Zbrush with a mouse is like drawing with a clump of charcoal.

    Keep at it

  12. #12
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    US
    Age
    30
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Thanks for the note of encouragement and im still trying to get a Wacom Tablet.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    330

    Default

    its a shame you cant find the original wacom bamboo anymore anywhere for less then 100 used :\ ... i love mine and i got it for like 50$



    anyways the newer smaller bamboos arent bad either.. just no zoom wheel : http://www.amazon.com/Wacom-CTL460-B...5252606&sr=8-1

    best 60$ you'll ever spend


    scratch that 100+ .. found one for 65 used : http://www.amazon.com/Bamboo-Small-P...5252734&sr=8-9
    Damien Trippeda .... Novice Zbrusher
    Sketchbook/Experiments: http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=154187

  14. #14
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    135

    Default

    You really need a tablet and to work on character design and rendering. The design and flow of that character at the top in not appealing and the anatomy isnt really working either. Not trying to put you down though just thats my honest opinion.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    US
    Age
    30
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Hey I need to get all the opinons as I can get good or bad even consructive ones are good so no worries
    Last edited by Aliasofall; 09-05-11 at 05:05 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •