1. #1
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    Post Merge two z-tool objects?

    Ok, maybe you've seen my recent post about multi-markers. I've created two horns (from the cone z-tool) and wish to join them to a head I did a long time ago (made from a sphere z-tool). So what is the easiest way to do this? Right now I've been using multi-markers to accomplish part of this, and gotten around that tool's many shortcomings with Bonecradle's help. Once I've finally managed to get the horns in place (not easy at all) I then create a new mesh via the Make Unified Skin feature. But even my best final results have been much less than enthusiastic (and with a really high poly mesh to boot). So what I would really like to know is if there is a much easier way to take multiple z objects and merge/weld them together to form a new single object that is editable. Thanks all!

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    The MultiMarker tool is the only way to combine models within ZBrush. Also, it does not perform any Boolean operations or weld seams.

    For example, if you combine two spheres so that they partly overlap and then hide some of the visible polygons you will find that ALL of the polygons from both spheres are still present -- even the ones that are inside the new combined object. This is why you get sharp edges where two objects intersect.

    The only way to create a single surface with no interior polygons is to reskin the polymesh that was created from the MM tool. This will lose detail, depending upon your skinning settings. However, Ken Brilliant has shown in this tutorial that this is an excellent way to create a "custom primitive" that you can then refine into a top-notch mesh. By looking at the technique as a method to create your own primitives (as opposed to a finished mesh), you can use lower resolution skin settings and so avoid getting a really heavy mesh.

    Hope that helps!

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    Talking

    Ah I see now. The idea is kind of like that of learning to draw in 2D where your taught, for example, that a human figure is basically made up of a bunch of primitives such as spheres and cylinders. I can see how this is very useful as long as you have your final idea of the model planned out well in advance and can work with these various primitive shapes in their original primitive state near the beginning of a project so that one doesn't lose too much detail when skinning the thing. In other words, if you already have a finished model (like the detailed head I've made) don't even bother having an after thought for improving it (the horns in my case) or you'll just end up with a mess. Does that sound about accurate?

    Thanks, this will help a lot with future models and planning. After all, the best way to fix something is to not make the mistake in the first place, lol. Now to play around some more with my new found methodology. I'm not actually used to working this way and need to ingrain it into my brain so it becomes natural.

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    Arrow

    Um, I'm not sure if you already know this, but are you familiar with the Make Polymesh button? This will combine a Multi-Marker object into a single mesh that can be sculpted further.

    I got the impression you were dissatisfied with the Make Unified Skin feature - and I reckon it's because it re-builds the entire object my "melting" it into a single unified lump, and this process can lose a lot of small detail. Make Polymesh doesn't do this - all it does is that it combines the meshes into one mesh. The geometry remains the same. However, after the Polymesh is done, it is impossible to separate the individual elements again. Like Aurick said, the interior polygons will remain there, but inside ZBrush this doesn't matter that much, since once you Snapshot the object onto the canvas, all internal stuff disappears.

    The upcoming upgrade to ZBrush, if I remember correctly, supports Polygon Groups, which means that if you Polymesh multiple objects together, their polygons remain in grouped selections and can be separated if needed.

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    The current version of ZBrush also supports polygon groups. The difference is that the next version will display those groups as colors in the polyframe view. However, in the current version each group within a polymesh that has been created with the MM tool>Make Polymesh feature will be named according to the name of the original model. For example, if you have saved your objects as "head", "RHorn" and "LHorn", then when you create the polymesh those will be the group names. You can even see the groups by changing to Dots display mode -- each group will be a different color.

    What the Make Polymesh button does not do is weld the places where the objects come together.

    Now, it should still be possible for you to add horns to your existing mesh. You can use masking to isolate the area where you would like the horns to be and then divide the mesh to increase its polygon count. After that, it should be fairly easy to sculpt horns along with the surrounding tissues for a more realistic look than could be achieved with them as separate objects.

    Hope that helps!

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    quote:
    For example, if you have saved your objects as "head", "RHorn" and "LHorn", then when you create the polymesh those will be the group names. You can even see the groups by changing to Dots display mode -- each group will be a different color.


    Thanks for your reply Aurick. I tried quickly multi-marking a few objects and Polymeshing them, and the separate objects really do show in different colors (and groups).

    But how do I select and edit these polygon groups? The Selection menu doesn't seem to have any buttons that have to do with groups.

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    There is an indirect way to do it.

    When the composite mesh is made, a composite texture will also be created. Each tool has its own region. All that you need to do is clone the texture so that you have one copy for each group.

    Next, fill the canvas with each texture, one at a time. Use any method you prefer to paint the textures so that only one region is black while everything else is white. (I prefer to use the Plane3D with ZADD off and only RGB on. This lets me use the gyro to scale and position it quick as can be.) Capture the canvas with the MRGBZGrabber, and you'll now have a new black and white texture for each group.

    Convert each texture to an alpha (Texture>Make Alpha).

    You're now ready to select your groups! To do so, just select the alpha that's black in the region for the group you want to work with. Press Tool>Modifiers>Selection>Alp to mask it. Then press Hide Pts (also in the Selection menu) and invert the mask. All that will be visible is the group you want to work with. To switch to another group, unhide points, then choose another alpha.

    It's important to invert the mask rather than clear it because you don't want to accidentally edit the nonvisible groups!

    Here is a quick and dirty ZScript to illustrate the technique:

    GroupSelection.zip

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    Thumbs up

    Thank you for the tips and information.

    But I certainly hope the next version will allow a more direct approach.

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    quote:
    Um, I'm not sure if you already know this, but are you familiar with the Make Polymesh button?

    Yes, I am aware and that's one of the steps I've been experimenting with. Multimarker, then polymesh, the more multimarking and polymeshing if I so choose, and then finish up by creating a unified skin on which to begin modelling finer detail. For a model that's already highly detailed this really isn't the way to go as I've discovered. Probably exporting out to something like 3DS Max would probably prove more useful in such a case. But for simple primitive objects like those shown in the tutorial by Ken Brilliant which Aurick referred to, multimarker/polymesh/unified skin all work great together. The main problem I had was not knowing their limitations, and not knowing the best methodology behind using these tools as effectively as possible. Now that I've read the tutorial (excellent read by the way), I have a much better understanding of the "why" behind it all, and this knowledge has already begun to help me create better models. For example how Ken Brilliant creates eyelids. So what if it doesn't help me with my current model, the important thing is that all my future work will benefit greatly from the help I've received on this topic (and after all, you always have to look on the bright side of things). So hats off to you guys and many thanks all!

    PS: Check it out, three different sphere tools all stuck together using multimarkers, polymesh tool, and make unified skin command (inspiration thanks to the series Taken which I just watched, lol). See? I'm getting it.


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    hi skaven some good examples already given
    here and am working on a mm tut that i have experimenting with and zbrush is capable of
    doing exactly what you want in the current version. 1, place,size, and shift click(in r mode) and mark all objects sqaure to the working space. 2,save the document 3,clear
    the canvas 4,select mm tool and draw it to the canvas 5, in draw pointer mode,move,and size objects rotating and shift clicking,top left front ect.when all objects
    are where you want them name and save the mm tool.6,create a folder and save all objects
    in the mm object.do not save the mm tool in the same folder.

    to edit the different objects-groups,open the document,load all the tools from the folder
    edit any or all of these objects seperatly
    then load your saved mm tool and draw it to the canvas and make polymesh the trick is in the saved document
    and mm tool.any time you edit the mm tool save and always save the document too,i like to save example (mm 1 mm2 mm3 ect.)so i can always go back in case of an error.
    the moral of the story is polmesh groups
    are not being edited but mm objects can,hope this helps.
    " crits n comments always welcome ! "

    " im not half as dumb as i think you look !! "



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