View Full Version : fading away again
05-11-01, 09:26 PM
Forgive the negativity, but I'm fading away (again). After putting in a concentrated effort (for me) for the past few weeks, I find that I just cannot get the hang of ZBrush. This goes back to last August and I have about sixteen images after who knows how many dozens of hours. Some of those I like, but most were a result of lucky accidents.
Maybe I'm not right-brained enough, or something. It is a unique and amazing program and I marvel at the works posted here, but I seem to lack something when it comes to trying to figure out how any of those images were done. My expectations are no doubt much higher than my talent, because I can whip stuff out reasonably easy in other graphics programs. It's damned frustrating to work for hours trying to find the touch without producing anything worthwhile.
The human head is what gives me the most fits. I'm posting my only saved head. Now if someone says it nice, I thank you, but, with so many attempts under my belt, this isn't much better than the very first head I made.
When someone that has had the demo for a week posts an image more advanced than anything I've done in nine months, I am envious, jealous, amazed and my forehead hurts from banging it on my keyboard. So, after ranting this long, I'll stop and wait for the next comeback, but beware... the last time I came back, ZAcademy closed two days later.
:) Hi Frogdot.....I'm sorry that your as frustrated as you are, but believe me, I went through the same thing. I've had ZBrush now since the end of February & there's still so much I don't know about the program. I don't think you should blame yourself for the lack of understanding of the program, I think it's more of ( not having a detailed manual ) to learn from. Also, it's very hard to understand the workings of a program as different as ZBrush without a good manual to explain what everything does in the program. Even after 3 months of using ZBrush, I still get very upset with the program. I'll shut it down for a couple of hours, then go back & open it up again to give it another try. If you still decide to leave the forum & maybe give up on ZBrush, please make it a temporary action. Check back often, for there is supposed to be a well documented manual soon for download, I THINK? If I'm wrong in that statement, at least there will be several new tutorials up-dated for the soon-to-be-released version. :D Have a good evening..... :cool: Mark.
05-11-01, 11:46 PM
Pull your socks up and get on with Zbrush artwork. :)
I gave up on Zbrush for about 6mths....I didn't have the time to go through the self learning process.......since discovering these forums and the helpful people within I have improved in leaps and bounds. I know what you are feeling......
I'm probably a little off track here, but....
Who cares if images produced in ZBrush don't appear photo realistic.....buy a camera for that.
And, photo realism....like all artwork is really just knowledge of technique.....talent is really piffle...patience and understanding of form are the key.
Hell I know about 1/20th of ZBrush, but patience has rewarded me with fine model tools.
Your image above........what on earth is wrong with it? It is a marvellous example
of a representative style....your own personal stamp within art.
If you wish to continue on the 'realism' road
try a different approach.....I have seen people improve dramatically when drawing their work...'upside down'... from the very beginning.
Myself I find that when modelling a head with ZBrush it is more than useful to rub ones hand over the particular part of the face you are modelling.
Patience when modelling is the key.
In fact looking at your image.....I see many positives......there are some great areas, and there is a good feel to the head. If you are after realism...... then really you are not far off attaining that end. And, to be able to achieve what I see above, you must have more than a working knowledge of ZBrush.
I have no idea how good your abilities are outside of ZBrush, but I suspect they are strong and well rounded.
Should you , or for that matter anyone else,
like to learn what I know with Human Head modelling....I am only to willing to place pointers and info on this board...if wanted.
Again, looking at your work...I see ability.
I discovered this lurking on my hard drive.
It was the first ever piece I ever made with Zbrush......about a year ago....I'd forgotten all about it. The thing is pathetic. I actually gave up on ZBrush after that.....couldn't get any help at that time. In fact I never really looked at Zbrush again until a few months ago. Now I love the programme.
Listen to Gurgler! Hey if your not having fun don't do it but I expect there will be a point where the light dawns, the lightbulb turns on and things will come easily.
Shoot, after seeing your work on the net some months ago I was really looking forward to see you come over to the Z-Side (*Darth Vader heavy breathing*)
My advice keep on Piddling, hell my abominations of nature hasn't stopped me!
05-12-01, 12:14 PM
Frogdot that IS a nice head sculpture..Like everyone says HAVE FUN..and look here for small tips that help your progress...actually I've had to do just humorous stuff to "cover" my lack of talent with ZBrush..but from time to time some question will turn on the lightbulb of truth and beauty and just that one fragment--will help like mad..example..there was a post about how to keep from getting wrinkles in your sculptures and some of the answers said turn down Z intensity..so I tried it and from that day ..my sculptures were better by a big percentage..and more tips will bring about better work..stick with it..Hey, and where are your funny images? --didn't you do some funny faces??--- NOTE TO GURGLER the face you just posted is pretty cool..how come you posted the butterscotch pudding self portrait first?..Ol' green head woulda been IMHO a better debut..and your latest models are very good..shows what happens when you stay with it... lots of us..want to be as good as Pixolator..Kurisu or Southern right away..but only Adman and Nikko seem to travel that light speed.. we need to stay with it because Zbrush--will give us the power before any RhinoBlenderMerlinizer on the market..hail to frogdot and ZBrush..Robo
I have to agree with EVERY one of these follow-up statements, Frogdot. That is a very nicely modeled head. You've even got some cool eyelids in there, which for me are always a bit troublesome. I always have to distort the heck out of the eyeballs to meke 'em fit. Keep at it, READ everything you can get your hands or mouse on, PRINT it out for the sake of reference, but, seriously, your work is coming along nicely!
DON'T be discouraged! :mad:
And Robo, WOW, what a compliment! Thanks! You haven't seen my recent work, have you? :o Please, DON'T look! And don't forget about Rhom's recent masterpieces!
But seriously, I don't know about Adman, but I'm just transferring a little real-world sculpting experience into Zbrushing. It definitely helps a little. That, and a LOT of reading, tutorials, and tips from the rest of you much more knowledgable folks.
Frogdot, you're doing fine!
I'm just repeating what everyone else has said . I've looked at every one of your images on your Phasedance page and I can honestly say that I look at them for inspiration.(Is "about ambulance chasers" a Bryce image BTW ?) That's why it's puzzling at first to see someone like you being frustrated, but I think that this just goes to show how different ZBrush is from other 3D progs. We also have to remember that ZBrush is still relatively new and we are all lucky to watch it develop from its infancy, and also help it change as it grows by commenting and griping and sharing our breakthroughs here in this forum. I saw ZBrush being demonstrated about a year ago at a trade show and have been obsessed with it ever since. I only recently feel like I know what I'm doing. I am posting this image as an example of a failed and unsatisfying image that I also learned something from by doing. I started out modeling what I thought was a head, then it turned into a helmet, then I tried to turn it into a car but I just gave up. As far as modeling goes, I think ZB has the others beat in the ease of use and spontaneous creativity category. Hang in there! http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads0/user_image-989716586bed.jpg
Don't throw in the towel yet Mr.Frog you are to talented.Most of the time I end up just playing with shapes and colors no matter what I think I'm going to create and every
once in awhile I get a keeper.I throw out
alot of trash along the way.PLAY!The images on your website are as zoid sez "inspiration"
05-15-01, 06:48 AM
Thanks Everyone for the concern and encouragement.
"Seek and ye shall find. If ye did not find, ye did not seek enough."
I think this is our life saying i.e. we seek to finish our plate of food, we seek to finish that term paper, we seek to finish paying off our car, we seek to write an e-mail and send it off etc. Even though we do not think about what we do day to day, if really thought about it, we are actually seeking answers all the time. Even though most of what we all know is repetitions and we do not put thought into it, the brain is still asking questions in order to get an answer as simple as picking up a spoon. Our whole life is seeking an end to a beginning. The beginning of anything is always the hardest. Keep at it and you 'will' find your answers.
As it is said "getting there is only half the fun".
So, keep on learning Frogdot. But most of all (as we all keep saying) have fun.
My 2 cents worth. :D
PS: Also, some time ago I suggested that folks like Pixolator and Southern get together and make a video learning series. I do not know about the rest of my fellow ZBs, but I am retarded when it comes to reading. I have to read a paragraph time and time again before it makes sense. Or some times, the writer leaves out that ever important 'tip' that you need and it is no where to be found. OR, HOW ABOUT MORE ZMOVIES? This would help much.
I'm sure you've heard of a phrase similar to this one, "it took me twenty years to become an overnight success."
I've been drawing since I was three (big MagicMarker on the hallway floor). I studied to be a photorealistic illustrator. Been in the digital 3d realm for 5 years. Then "overnight," along came ZBrush. I've still only scratched the surface of this awesome software.
Your modeled head is excellent! As Gurglur said, "Patience when modelling is the key." Get as much reference material together as you can of the subject you want to model, if "photoreal" is your goal. If not, go for something more "wacky." No rules to be broken there.
Keep it fun!
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