nurbs question, to kircho...

[marcel]

:) hello! Kircho, i appreciate a lot your work, and the clear approach of modelling you bring here... I've been very interested by your answer to dooki, about paraform, but their site is not very clear (for me)... wich one in their soft is usable for translate to nurbs? oh, and if you have in your computer a complicated zbrush form, like a head, and it's translation, it would be nice you post the two, to see other methods... Thank you! amitiés M. http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200309/user_image-1064051475ucd.jpg

[marcel]

and a little render of the whole model, with zbrush everywhere, but "linked" by nurbs... http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200309/user_image-1064051577gyf.jpg

[marciani]

Hi Marcel,
i've see many times this topic about translation in nurb;what's the "vantage" (i dont'know the word in english)if you do the render in z-brush?
I understand you have another model very light, but if you use the z-brush render engine.....or there is a big difference between a z model and nurbs modelwhen you do a render?
I appreciate so much your work, you have an inconfondible style ;)
about this scen could you share about the environment lighthing (softly blue)?
Thank's
bye
Leo

[DeeVee]

From what I understand ZBrush usues pologons and nurbs uses lines so the nurbs are always smoother than the pologons to start with untill you do enough divisions to get rid of the pologon faces. I may be way off, but that is my understanding of the difference between the two types of models.

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hi Marciani
Maybe vantage = advantage :)
Have you see that ? (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=012178&p=3)
But for that I understand the transformation polygones to nurbs by Marcel Method is a very tricky tricky Method !
Very personal from Rhino program and surely not more easy if you don't know Rhino!
But that's seems remplace program than Cyslice (http://www.cyberware.com/products/cyslice.html) who are very expensive !!!
Pilou

[marciani]

Hi all,
i know the difference, but i don't see the advantage wich z-brush.
when you can use a model with a so high number of poligon, you can have more little detail so smooth than a model made with nurbs.
I see the advantage in other software or in animation, but in this case i try to understand the utility.
This is not a polemic thread
only a simple curiosity when i'm looking the works of someone more and more and more better than my.
bye
leo

[marcel]

yes deevee, the main difference is that nurbs based curves are always smooth; but you have to convert them in polygons to render them, everything "finish" as polygons...the main advantage, marciani , is effectively to use another render sometimes, but mainly to rework the model, blending very smoothly parts, and changing for example the position of the arms, the head, and so on; this rework, associated with light objects and surface fidelity at the zbrush mesh, is the main advantage;as you can see in the picts join: on the closer view different parts, head, neck, mechanical parts, are smoothly blended; also i join a render test in hdri, with an uniform texture... and, oh, ther is also the fact that i've tried this nurbs business , and i am inrested to go a way with this question; but maybe it's an initeresting trail, at the end... and finally i sure agree with you: if you lost the amount of details of the 2,5 pixols, ther must be at the end an intersting "price"... amitiés M. http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200309/user_image-1064101342bxz.jpg
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200309/user_image-1064101372mop.jpg
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200309/user_image-1064101505brs.jpg

[Frenchy Pilou]

Ben alors marcel, pas couché :)
Et l'Apple expo, était-ce bien ?
Pilou

[marcel]

ben toi non plus! oui, c'était interessant de voir des tas de nouveautés dans les programes, c'était trés sympa de se rencontrer avec le "noyau" frenchy, (mais pas toi, tu es loin de paris?), c'était trés ruineux parce que je me suis pas mal laissé tenter... oila, on a fini sur les marches a papoter, avec un peu de soleil non virtuel, ... a part ça, pas un poil de zbrush dans toute l'expo, c'est pas demain que des hordes de frenchy vont se ruer sur le programme... ah la la ...

[Frenchy Pilou]

Ben non, mais pas libre :(
Cela sera pour une autre fois :)
Pas un poil de Zbrush ? C'est pas croyable!
Que fait la police :D
Cela changera peut-être avec la prochaine version !
Ah! Demain, journée du patrimoine !
M'en vais aller voir les ateliers de l'Opéra (de Paris) :rolleyes:
Bonne nuit!
Pilou
Ps Il fait peur le bonhomme de la statue avec son épaule droite transparente! :cool:

[Polaris30]

What cool looking work,,,

Verry inspireing, I realy like your use of materials, and your lighting is wonderful!

:tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :D

[Kircho]

Hi Marcel,
Very kind of you to compliment my work, it means alot to me to here this aspcailly comming from, from one who I draw inspiration.

Paraform Ic. produces a software called Paraform 3D.This is the software that allows the converstion of Polymeshes to Nurbs surfaces in a round about way. The software has a modular structure with each module having a specific task :
1- Convert Point clouds to mesh
2- Edit mesh
3- Generate and draw curves over the mesh
4- Generate Spring over the curves
5- Generate Nurbs surfaces over the springs

Each module has to be purchased seperatly and you can pick and choose which modules are suited to your needs.

As an example I converted my most recent model Thimble , which I have presented here in the forums ::

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200309/user_image-1064117057elq.jpg

Its a very fast process with all work on this conversation taking just over half an hour.
Normally I do not convert to nurbs but simply generate a lowpoly mesh for animation and rendering purposes.
As you can see from the example the nurbs surface is made up of nurbs patches.The software interpolates the curves that you have drawn on your polymesh to exactly fit the topology. WHen you generate the nurbs surfaces the control points within each patch are adjusted to fit the polymesh topology. This means that the final nurbs model is made up of many nurbs surfaces.

Looking at your past work marcel ..aspcaially the hands and the horse you coverted to nurbs its quite hard to imagine how you converted them within rhino so seamlessly?

Hope I have been able to answer your questions, if you have any further queries I will be happy to answer :)

Take care

Kircho

[marciani]

Thank's Marcel, i suppose one think like this,...if i loss the detail i win in another situation...
For Pilou
P.S. whats do you mean: Pas un poil
Je parle (a l'ecole....15 ans passe') francais ma je ne me rappelle pas ce que veut dire.... :D
Bye
Leo

[marcel]

:) thank you for kindly comments!... Kircho the way to convert in rhino is: import the zbrush mesh; select; choose in curve the "level curves" option, in regular mode; trhe level curves have to be close each one of each other; delete the mesh; loft the curves with enough control points; you have the copy, with as fidelity surface than point control... it works with very heavy and complicated forms; it's simple; it becomes tricky with intricated forms: you have to choose the angle of trhe level curves, and look at them carefully; sometimes i do the process in 3 angles successively, and "mix", by split and join, the best parts of each... as you see, sometimes simple, sometimes you have it, sometimes you finish crazy... but the plug in of maya allowing the conversion is more imprecise, and limited drastically in polygons amount imported... so...

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hi Marciani
Pas un poil de Zbrush = not a bristle of a "Z"brush !
That mean that at this expo nobody knows or can see Zbrush on the computers :(
Except the frenchies of the ZBC :)
But I am sure that in the future this situation will be change !
Zbrush is a "young" program !.
With the next version it will be senior :cool:
Hope this help!
Have happy Zbrushing!
Pilou

[marciani]

Thank's Pilou
Bye
leo

[matvara]

Hei Marcel;
Thanks for info on converting zbrush mesh in
Rhino, but I couldn't find level curve anywhere. Is it a function in Rhino? Where can it be found. I'm using rhino 3. Thanks in advance.

[marcel]

matvara, i'm using rhino 3, but french version; so i try to translate: go in curves menu; down in curves menu, go to curves from object; on the sub menu go to what is probably level curves (courbes de niveau in french); click on the imported mesh to select it, then apply the level curves,;don't forget, they must be rather close each other;usually i put the mesh on another layer, and i hide that layer; careful :DON'T move anything, the goal is to always get the hidden mesh in the same position than at the start, to do other curves if necessary; well you have these curves on the screen; usually i split in two, to have just open curves; then go to surface by section, click each curve at the SAME point , and that's done... begin to understand the process with a simple zsphezre object: like a sort of cylinder, like a part of an arm... simple, but do what you want on the surface, little things and muscles, and so on... If these lecel curves are near, even very near , you lost no detail, or very few;at the end, when you are sure of the skin, delete the mesh to have a lighter thing, then if you want begin to rebuild the surface, (in edit menu), to have similar fidelity surface with lighter objects; then you can do all rhino commands, to go further... hope this helps! amitiés M.

[marcel]

for example, a screen of a character at a very early stage; what i like is that i don't know exactly now what are the hands, and the ears, and the feet... each part here is z brush; and the following parts will be z brush;and you can blend smoohtly each partwith the following ones...a very intricated zsphere like this one needs several translation to be ok; aurick has exp)lained a very useful trick to split parts of a mesh on cloned mesh in z brush... http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200309/user_image-1064216364twz.jpg

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hi Marcel
En passant, je ne sais pas si tu connais ce bouquin "...Il était une fois le dessin animé"
d'Olivier Cotte : Ed Dreamland (2001)!
Il y a tout et tout plein d'images itou !
Un must!
Pilou

[matvara]

Thanks a lot Marcel for taking time to reply,
I really appretiate your effort to help. I am
very facinated by your modeling techniques,
and I believe you are a visionary artist. I
will try to find out the best possible way to
make use of Zbrush\Rhino\Wings 3d.
Thanks again! :tu: :tu: :tu:

[artboy21]

marcel i love your art, i am really intrigued by your technique! do u have a website?

artboy

[Fouad B.]

Marcel en français ça donne quoi la procedure de conversion poly >> nurb sous Rhino ?

[marcel]

garggllle, je l'ai déjà expliquée.... dans rhino: tu importe le mesh; tu vas a courbes de niveau, tu donnes une valeur assez serrée, tu cliques, çà fait les courbes de niveau; aprés tu mets le mesh en invisible,, tu bouges rien, et tu "surface par section " les courbes; réglage: "tendu", simplifier avec (usually) 40 pts de controle; essaye avec une forme simple, parce que sinon çà se complique, il fa ut nettoyer pas mal...

[Fouad B.]

merci ;)
Garggll.. est-ce une onomatopée d'etranglement de colère, ou bien tu buvais un thé chaud ??? :D :D

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hi Fouad
Garggllle avec 3 L et 1 E :D
Et bon courage pour les nurbs!
Pilou

[marcel]

garglle, c'est pas du french, c'est du bd... en plus on pollue leur forum avec tant de français... si t'arrives pas a translater en nurbs, tel. moi et voila...