More about ZSphere+Displacement... (Update #4 in page 4, Nov/01/2002 )

[Pixolator]

Hi :)
I am currently testing the displacement-map features in the upcoming ZBrush version and I’ll post some of the images produced by these the tests in here. When these tests are done, I’ll post a details step-by-step description of the method used in creating these ZSphere+Displacement images.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1035529838zuf.jpg

In the above image you can see the ZSphere’s skin (bottom-center) and several rendering with displacement map. The skin was not modified by any other modeling tools, it is the direct output of ZSphere with details added by 2048x2048 gray-scale displacement map. Enhanced ZSphere-skinning and UVTiles-mapping in the next version of ZBrush will allow you to apply ‘reasonable’ amount of modification to the original ZSphere model while retaining the capability to reuse the same texture and displacement map that was created for the base pose. Here is one ‘posed’ version of the above ZSphere model with the same displacement map...
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1035524456elu.jpg



-Pixolator

[Mahlikus The Black]

This is soo amazing!
I am speechless!

[MrBraun]

It Is simply fantastic !!!
I love this program Pix!!! :D :D :D

[Fouad B.]

ouff ! great !!
but.. where is the head??
:D :D

that must consume mesh!!

Think Pixo that one day, one can have our final model exit of Zsphere in reaction with this one... thus allowing to generate a mesh starting from Zphere to modify it but be able to return on the skeleton in Zsphere in order to modify the pause. a little with the manner of the bones.

[Frenchy Pilou]

What a curious earth aerial amphibious creature :D
Pilou

[talos72]

would the displacement map feature be part of an update for the current version of ZBrush or for a whole new version 2.0? And when might be the release time, ballpark?

[aurick]

Fouad, the beauty of displacement mapping is that it doesn't increase the polygon count of the model. So a model with 8,000 polygons will still be 8,000 polygons even when rendered with the additional detail.

talos72, this is going to be included in the final release of version 1.5 -- the bonus free upgrade, which we are currently working on. It will be available soon, and will be free to all current ZBrush owners. Unfortunately, I can't say exactly how soon; it all depends upon how the testing goes.

[Mentat7]

Absolutely awesome! I have models stacking up in huge lines waiting for this feature.......... :D :tu:

[DMerchen]

:eek: :eek: My goodness you do tease! Excellent! This will be very exciting to play with! :D

[Jaycephus]

Awesome.

Hey Mentat, I've seen some of those models on here. Can you show some more? :)

[kelly_b_c]

This is going to be great. I am not sure how much longer I can wait though!! The anxiety is killing me.

[Nemo]

i believe the new 'enhanced' skinning method is already available in preview mode (hold down shift and click once on your canvas (this wont snap your object to a predefined angle like shift-clicking and dragging the mouse) then hit the 'a' key - your model will look 'thinner') - i expect the pixologic team will still work on it but for those interested (and being owner of 1.5) it might be worth a look.

It requires a new approach to zspheres regarding placement of zspheres and the resulting behaviour - but it offers much more flexible meshes to be created... hard to explain - zeee for yourself :)
*I already fell in love with it and created some tools for it*

**important : you can only see this effect in the preview of an adaptive skin - you can't create the skin yet**

***La Ola for ZB***

[Mentat7]

Actually Nemo...that alternate skinning is available and is discussed in this thread http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=008315 :)

[Nemo]

*g* great stuff anyways ;)

*..and finally i thought i found something new lol*

[Belleski]

Very Exciting! Thank You for including this new and fasinating feature as part of our free upgrade. Maybe Christmas will come early this year.... ;)

[martial]

Wow!Can we export the model in obj format with all the meshes detail on?

[aurick]

martial, you will be able to export the low polygon model and the bump or displacement map. Most 3D programs will be able to use the map in the bump channel. Some will be able to use it in the displacement channel to recreate the illusion of lots of polygons. Consult your animation program's manual to see what it is capable of.

[KenH]

Whoohoo!*claps hands* We can re-pose and skin a model and still apply the same displacement map! This is going to be my bestest Christmas present yet! :)

[Bruce Gregory]

Aurick:

Pixolator mentioned the use of UV tiles as the mapping method. So far, I can find no way to utilise this method for export to 3rd party apps such as Electric Image Universe. You previously suggested a conversion tool was in the works to facilitate this - is this going to be a reality?

sincerely,

Greg Smith

[visionary]

Looks Fantastic!

I do have a couple of questions about displacement maps.
1)How do texture maps interact with displacement maps? In the examples that I have seen so far, all models are un-textured.
2)Will there be a feature which will allow the user to "skin" the model for export to other applications that do not support the displacement maps?

Keep up the good work.

Visionary :D

[Fouad B.]

Aurick >
In other software.; like 3DSMAX
Displacement mapping must have much polygone if you have a high resolution gray map.
if you don't have to increase meshs.. this is the Bump mapping also..

is it a new ZBrush's nativ technologie ?

[Pixolator]

Thanks for kind feedback :) More details will be posted as we get closer to release time.

Here is WIP texturing-test of the same model...
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1035653548mht.jpg

-Pixolator

[Rafael Hernandez]

Amazing stuff. Can't wait.

[Mentat7]

Pix will displacement mapping be available for unified skins as well? Please say it is so. :)

[Pat]

Amazing!

Really looking forward to the release!

Awesome!

Pat

[Flokhan]

trop chanmé...Euh I would say..it's a terrific pic...

[Fouad B.]

wait and see...

[havran]

Magister Pixolator ... I found ZBrush by way of Renderosity (Bryce galleries), and found a secret world of excitement ... similar to hearing about new albums from favorite musicians, when I was young

best wishes to you and crew, and a comfortable prosperity

[deks]

HOLY S**T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

*screams hand jump out throw window to check if I sleeping*
*after hitting ground* oh.. I didn't sleep....
Now the only feature i am missing is the possibility to make Zspheres become like "bones" that is animate able in another 3d app. Like take the information of the placement of the zspheres and turn them out to this. I have no doubt it gonna be so! I can't tell you pix how incredably this is! :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:

[KenH]

I don't know how you get the texture so definite without selection tools. Wonderful work as usual. :)

[Le Discot]

Hi Pix! :)

A very exciting evolution.

I've some questions about work manufacture:
-Will the displacement textures change the amount of polygons of the Zspheres objet behind?
-Could we see the plane result of the base displacement texture?

Thx for the answer. :)

[Bastard76]

This new feature in ZBrush will be for sure
an appreciated improvement. It is great to
be able to define a fine displaced model and
then reuse it as much times as we need in
different position. I am already thinking
about I am going to create ordes of warriors! :D

[Muvlo]

Now that is just amazing, truly amazing! :)

[KingSalami]

all too cool, I'm chomping at the bit waiting for the new features, even though I haven't figured out how to use the stuff I have ;)

Must be part of the human condition.

[Gerlon]

would it be possible to show us a short animation of this guy to further show off the displacement mapping? I really have to see it before I completely believe it ;) :D :D :D

[JOHNVQ3]

:) A very cool feature, cant wait.

[Pixolator]

Thanks for kind feedback :)
Here are two more tests...

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1036022890fsf.gif

By carefully manipulating the ZSphere tool (It is important to avoid twists or skin-break) the generated UVTiles-coordinates of the 'posed' ZSphere-tool will be identical to the UV-coordinates of the base 'pose'. This allows the texture and displacement map to be reused in each of the animation key-frames as well as in the interpolated frames. The animation was created with the help of a ZSphere-Animation-ZScript that will be available to download following the next ZBrush release.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1036016685jtl.gif


-Pixolator

[Jaycephus]

My keyboard just shorted from the saliva...

:) :tu:

You can see some distortion in the tail of the top one, but I don't see anything wrong with the bottom animation.

[Grub]

Cool animations Pixolator! Can't wait for that update. :cool:

[Mentat7]

>>Drool running down face<<
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Fouad B.]

oh my god!! that is my wish !!!!!

ok.. now.. posibility to work on stencil with curves like vector.. and that's good.. stop developpement.. buy an Island.. a little home.. woman, child... and good bye all :))

[sirquadalot]

Holy Moly!!! I hope we can export alpha masks in TGA or at least PSD. WOWY WOW WOW!!!!! You are amazing!!! :tu: :) :tu: :) :tu:

[banez]

yeahhhhhhhhh ha that is Cool pix

[Sarum]

this is so cool :tu: :tu: :tu:

[Rafael Hernandez]

Damm Pixolator, I won't be able to sleep tonight. The posibilities, the posibilities....

[Nemo]

animation in zbrush *gggggg*

:tu:

[kelly_b_c]

Now I really can't wait!!!

This is going to be a major addition.

[Bastard76]

Wow! We are getting Z-Animated! Look forward
to knowing something new in development.
Pixolator,you have always great surprises
for us.
Do you think to keep on developing the animation
capability of Z-Brush?

[Muvlo]

Awsome, Pix! Those animations look great!! :tu: :tu:

[KenH]

Aragh! My sprite animation woes all solved by one program!! And I haven't spent a dime on it in a year! Now that's value and that's the sort of thing that builds loyalty. I like the way Pixologic works! :eek: :eek:

[Pixolator]

Hi :)
Here is one more test...

The skinned model...
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1036147778rsl.jpg
...and a test anim...
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1036166361wxd.gif http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1036166378aot.gif
The animation is a 'bit' rigid, it was done for testing purposes and uses only 4 key-frames. A bit of tweaking and more key-frames would have allowed for a more lifelike walk-cycle.

On the left is the ‘skinned’ version while on the right is the animation of the underlying ZSpheres model. You may notice that some of the ZSpheres are semi-transparent, these are new ‘attractors’ spheres. Attractor ZSpheres are individual ZSpheres that have been disconnected from their parent-ZSphere. These attractor do not generate new geometry ,they simply ‘attract’ the generated skin of their disconnected-parent sphere and allow for more control over the resulting shape of the generated skin.

Hope you’ll find this interesting :)

-Pixolator

::Edited November 01, 2002 04:25 AM...

A question to ZBC members:

One of the benefits of ZBrushCentral is that it allows us to share with you sneak-previews of the upcoming version of ZBrush and I am aware that these sneak-previews do generate excitement as well as anticipation for the next release.
As a member of ZBC, are you interested in seeing these sneak-previews and accept the anticipation/restlessness that such information may bring ? or do you prefer that information about upcoming versions of ZBrush will be kept to absolute minimum ?

I have previously asked this question and the replies have indicated that members do prefer to be informed about upcoming releases but since there are many new ZBC members, its time to repost this question.

[juandel]

OMG! :D + billions of :tu:s

- juandel

edit: Yes - i am 100% pro sneak previews! :)

[Grub]

The attractor Zspheres are an exciting addition! :eek: :cool:

[Mik]

Holy awesome features Pixman that is just way beyond cool!
I'm off to rob a bank so I can get myself the full version! :D :D


disclaimer:
I, as in myself, do not condone the forceful upholding of monetary holding facilities for the express purpose of purchasing computer applications of a unique and world altering nature.
:D

[Mentat7]

Okay Pixolator..........I got up and the first thing I see is this post. I passed out from the mega stimulation it imposed on me tiny little noggin. My wife had to douse me with cold water to wake me up. I was an hour late for work! :D lol But seriously....heck yeah! I know I want to see the "glimpses" into the new features. Don't hold anything back my friend. Bring it on! :) Oh and those Attractor spheres look lovely! I can see the effect they have on the Head and the back tail skirt on the model. I would assume the attractors are what formed the final head and skirt cuz they sure don't look like the original sphere model ;)


Famous ketchup song: "Antici..paaaayayashun is making me wait......"


:b3:By the way Pix...is this your entry into the Hero Challenge? (hint...nudge...hint) :)

[Ron Harris]

I am no animator yet but if you did this with four key frames....then you seem to have done a splendid job to me. How long after you created your zsphere character, did it take you to finish a small animation like this? Not that I could work as fast as you, but it would give myself and the others a ballpark figure maybe of the creation time. One of the things that appeals to me with Zbrush is the speed at which a person can work. Right now with the current alpha skinning I have the best of my both worlds, pencil drawing and 3d...and I can accomplish that in less than thirty minutes (if I can draw fast enough). So the idea to reality journey is fairly short for me( whether its using the alpha skinning or popping out a disembodied head or a zsphere body etc.)and that is what I love about zbrush. So my visions can be shared quickly. That is why the time frame is so interesting for me with regards to the production of the sneak peaks.

Now as far as do I like the sneak peaks? Definitely!! It personally gives me something to look forward to and sometimes has thwarted me from involving another program prematurely. The only downfall of release and upgrade information that I would personally find that I don't like are the release dates or at least the tentitive ones. I understand bugs have to be worked out to provide everyone with the best possible program. But like for the demo users I believe a date like Sept.27th was used. They look forward to that like Christmas or something and when it comes and passes and there is no toy under the tree, well you get the picture. I wouldnt even use a word like SOON....A simple this is what we are working on and we have no idea when its going to be released would probably suffice. That way we know something great is coming, you are not pressured by a self set deadline of release, and the users, consumers etc are not let down by something that was possibly out of your control. And it would probably cut down on the "When's it coming, Pix?" emails... That has to be frustrating for the staff I am sure...but I love the image releases..
so
Image releases = :tu: :D :tu:

Release date info= :td: :mad: :td:

(btw thnx for asking us on this issue Pix)

;)
Kind Regards
Ron

[DMerchen]

This kind of stuff definitely causes some excitement. Animation...I know a lot of people have been asking if this was going to be implemented in futere versions. I am glad to see it happening. All of this stuff is very exciting and I am glad we are able to see the new features being presented. Thanks for keeping us up to date on the newer features. :tu: :tu: :D

[Nemo]

this question only has one answer pix:

of course give us all the info you got !

...and if that isnt sufficient answer to some of the resulting questions too :)

no truely, a forum lives mostly of the information it offers so dont draw that away from us please. general chat and user interaction from which information can be derived is good, and developer information is the sugar on top.

:tu: :tu: on the upcoming release already - take your time and make it as bug-free as possible :)

[MrBraun]

I love this program every day more more...!! :D :tu: :tu:
Tnx Pixolator !! ;)

[Bastard76]

Pix,what you showed is just exciting.
I heard you were talking about key-frames...
I am thinking that artists involved in game
developing will just love deeply ZBrush.

As for sneak previews, I am very glad to
see them. I think that in it helps
a lot of users to feel wrapped up in ZBrushing
and on the other hand their warmness can
give energy,satisfaction,joy to the whole
Pixologic staff.
ZBC is more than a forum,it is like a square
where friends meet and share their thoughts.

Thanks a lot :)

[kelly_b_c]

I am all for the updates and previews and little sneak peaks!

This preview, with the animation and the attractor zspheres, is simply amazing.

[WingedOne]

Ga...Ga...Ga...Ga...Ga...

*Thunk*

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Antimorph]

speechless

*edit @ 10 minutes*

sobbing with glee

I want a poster of the crew at Pixologic to put on my wall. sniff.

[sirquadalot]

I love the sneak previews. Please keep'em comming! :tu:

[Mahlikus The Black]

You better Believe I wanna see updates and sneak peeks! Taking those away would be terrible! As for the update, I am about ready to rip my hair out and become a monk. I have been waiting a month for any full version let alone the update. I wont go there but lets just say that this new info about animation has satified a small part of the desire to play with and learn 1.5.

[DLee]

Creates excitment has to be the understatement of the year ~G~ We all love the sneak peeks.

I agree with Ron though, 'comming soon' or any specific date should be avoided at all costs. So many turn rabid when dates come and go. Rather than realizing there is a good reason and we're better off waiting.

I do hope we get this update 'soon' but like the rest I'm willing to wait for the bug free product.

[Pat]

Incredible!

Every time I visit this great forum I wish to see some new sneak-previews so keep them comming 4 sure!!!!

It would be really nice to see some more "Pixolator" tutorials (when there is time to write them of course :)), I have learn soooo much from them!

Thanks
Pat

[Antimorph]

What's that? The competition winners don't have they're 1.5's yet?!? Aww comon, whats up with that.. tell me it isn't so.

I'll defend pixologic till the cows come home but.. Geez no zspheres.. Who's responsible for this dreadful oversight?

[Jaycephus]

I'm all for updates. Bring it on. :)

I don't need a release date. If you want to say you're shooting for the fourth quarter of 2002, then that is fine, and I would like to know what the rough time-frame is.

:) :tu:

[JOHNVQ3]

:) More Sneak peaks Please.... :eek: :eek: :tu: :tu: :tu:

[Karasuando]

Holy...animation now!?. God!, I had never expected this, insane. I was planning on buying one of the big apps for animating characters sprites for game art..but maybe I don't have to, this looks perfect for such a job.

:tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:

[Mahlikus The Black]

OMG I just disected those gifs. 4 KEY FRAMES MAKING 16 Frames. Thats an interpolation of 3 frames! ZB DID THAT!
oh..
Oh my....
*passes out*

~thud~

*wakes up*

..and yes it is a little messed up! But uts free so I dont complain!

*passes out again*

<font color="#949494" size="1"> November 02, 2002 Message edited by: Mahlikus The Black </font>

[Belleski]

Pure Genious at work!! I personally love to see sneak previews and will endure the endless teasing to see glimps of Pixolators work...which I can't get enough of. I seems like the lab is bursting with new concepts and improvements...this warms my heart. I love being a part of a living, growing, evolving entity! Now I wish you could impart some of your genious to me as well as the products there of...but alas I can only live in awe. ;) :tu:

[Fouad B.]

I'm Agreed the sneak preview !!

and very nice work !!
:tu: :tu:

[TMORSE]

To answer Pixologic's question about the sneak peaks, from the perspective of a newbie, I find great value in seeing the direction in which the development of ZBrush is heading. Seeing all the very exciting upcoming features has greatly fueled my desire to learn the program in great detail. It has one-of-a-kind features, and I'm looking forward to the day I understand most of them! Keep up the great work, and keep the behind the scenes info coming!

[WushuGuy]

Pix,
My vote is keep the previews coming. It is going to take me a decade to catch up with what is already out but the future view keeps me going.
I also vote for more "Pix stuff" when you have the time to spare away from adding new features. ;) :D

Jim
The Wushu Guy

[Digits]

I agree with Ron about release dates but sneak peeks and information about the product is great customer relations. But a broken promise of a release date is an easy one to avoid by saying "It will be done when it's done"

I am very interested in seeing how interpolated frames are handled in your new Animation script. That is where my little brain gave out in my Zsphere Widget as I could not think of a way to keep the zsphere model "Rigid" during transition frames. Could it be those "Attractor" dealibobs have something to do with that? Allowing you to create a "curve" path for each node?

[deks]

It's the sneak previews who makes this forum so special! :D So keep sending them! And i am a little bit of an animator myself .And that stuff loks awesome! But i'm wonder. Wouldn't it be possible somehow, with the placement information of the Zpheres, to convert them to a bone system for example 3ds max? I mean the placement of the Zspheres are exacly how the animation bones system are placed in other animation packages.

[Muvlo]

AwsomeWowCoolAmazing!! :) Defintly worth a "restless" feeling, to see this stuff Pix! Incredible!!! :)

[JimMcKnew]

Matthew - keep up the sneak previews. Without the "abticipation/restlessness", what we have left to whine about? ;) ;) Jim

[banez]

the animation was darn good i thought :tu:

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hello Pix
More is better than less :)
Are you never relax ? :)
Pilou

[Flycatcher]

All in favour of the previews. Even as someone whose main interest is in 2.5D painting and who lacks any real interest in animation, I have to admit by being dazzled by these forthcoming developments. The last animation posted was particularly smooth and impressive.

As for the dates - I would much rather wait a while and have a robust product than see you put under customer pressure to release too early and leave us with bugs to contend with. Only means another "patch" release to follow. My only slight gripe about this is with the expiring serial numbers - especially when changing the time settings throws a wobller too. But having said that, the procedure for getting and applying a replacement could hardly be simpler. So take all the time you need, guys, any impatience will soon be forgotten about once the new "toys" are available!

[wenna]

I agree with everyone else! Keep those previews coming!!

[Mr Z]

I can hardly believe this, first its a 2.5d painter, then its a 3d modeller and now its gonna be a animator...what next? :D

I have to ask this, where does the knowledge to program something this good come from Pixolator?

Also, I'll never understand how a program can be this feature rich and only be 7.36mb's in size :eek:

You're a true master at what you do Pix and I kneel before thee! ;)

P.S. dont you dare take about the previews! :D

[moonwalker]

:tu: Yes, of course, the previews are greatly appreciated! :tu:
The new features look very impressive :eek:
it will be wonderful to have the chance of building a detailed model with zspheres (without post-work) and then posing it as one likes...