WIP - blackthorn fighting the guardian - 121 very welcome / final image added

[kokoro]

i am doing a new homepage design for prizm entertainment. they are making a game adventures of blackthorn (http://www.e-prizm.com/blackthorn)

which is a spin off project of the ultima series. their project leader, wind walker, saw here on zbc my dragon image and asked me to help them with their design. i worked recently on that homepage design (and hope it is finished very soon) and now started to do an entrance image.

here is the concept of what i am planning to do :

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1052041088ryb.jpg


the guardian (thats the huge red beast in the concept) needs to be modeled to fit the already existing design, for lord blackthorn, i have a reference image, but am free to change the design as i like. so here is the first start on blackthorn (with the reference image in the background), made from zspheres :

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1052041142mnz.jpg


and a very early modeling stage of the guardian, made from a shpere, with the only reference image in the background i have :

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1052041188lcz.jpg


in case some of you know the ultima series (which i do not ) and can give helpful advise, i would be very grateful.

also - if in the process you see something i do, which you would like to have explained, please ask. i will be very happy to help.

[Wind Walker]

Looking v. nice. I didn't see the other pictures of the Guardian and Blackthorn you are making but they seem to be coming out real nice! :)

[gummie]

The Ultima series is the one series I don't particularly follow with rpg titles, but I know Blackthorne. Looks like a lot has changed from the original title though. :)

I think that it's looking good so far. Texturing will probably be the hardest part since no getting away with a non recognizable character. Anyway, cool project! :)

[Wind Walker]

Thank you, it is a cool project :) If you are interested, this is a great opportunity to get familiar with the backbone of Computer Role Playing Game. Currently there are over 10 remakes in the works for the Ultima series and frankly no other computer game (except maybe doom) commands the kind of loyal following that this product does.
So you get the opportunity to play one of the coolest games with modern 3d engines. Wish I 'd been that lucky ;)

[kokoro]

here is the first update. i started modeling blackthorns body and his right arm. i first wanted to do the whole body in one mesh, but the pose is difficult to texture then. so i do it in pieces...

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1052157149ane.jpg

[BigMike]

very cool!
i cant wait for to see the finish picture :) :)

great modelling!!

[Wind Walker]

Aye, me too! It seems to be coming along real nicely. In the right hands zbrush is indeed a v. powerful tool! ;)

[kokoro]

thank you for your friendly words.

yippie ! today i got a wacom tablet ! what a different feeling in zbrush !

here is the guardian, may be finished with modeling. what do you think ? more details need to be added later with the texture, the guy is as highpoly as my poor computer can just handle....

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1052321407dym.jpg


i startet refining blackthorn and texturing already. the hair will be done later in the image with the fibrebrush. what do you think of him until now ?

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1052321455tsy.jpg

also i do have 2 questions, hope someone can answer :

what kind of teeth has the guardian ?

are the guardians ears correct ? or need they be acute at the top ?

[Mentat7]

Oooo...I really like that model of Blackthorn!! As far as the Guardian goes...the top and bottom of a human ear are on the same level as the top and bottom of the human eye socket. But then again is the Guardian human? Would it matter?? hmm.. As for teeth...I don't know what type he "has" but it would look cool if you gave him some metal mechanical chompers with rivits and rust and all. :)

[Jaycephus]

Here's a pic of the guardian from the game Ultima VII (7)

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1052326543nvd.gif

A shot from Ultima IX:

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1052327415rnf.jpg

Teeth-wise, I think you are somewhat free. The original obviously had 'bad' teeth. The last official version of the Guardian is shown in the second picture above, and his teeth look white, but I'm sure you wouldn't want to make perfect bright-white teeth.

[Wind Walker]

Wow, even though I have vested interest in your work Kokoro I have to say, the Guardian mesh is looking v. nice as is Blackthorn!

The problem with the Guardian (as Jay points out via his pictures) is that there really are two versions of the Guardian, the Ultima 7 one and the Ultima 9 one. While the U9 one looks more human (there are reasons for that) the U7 one looks more meaner.

Given your talents Kokoro, my suggestion is that use the two for reference but do not allow them to create the final version. You are welcome to use your imagination and modify the character as long as it doesn't deviate (greatly) from any of the original pictures. For example I was thinking of giving him claw like hands and feet? And maybe giving him 4 fingers and 3 toes? Again this is a suggestion, you are doing a great job and I would hate it if anything restricted you from being creative.
Keep up the great work! :)


P.S: We are looking for modelers/artists/texturers. If any of you are interested, please email me at windwalker@omacc.com. Thank you

[kokoro]

mentat - thank you, i am very proud to get such a compliment of you, since i always admire your work :)

yes, the position of the ear i know, in principle, but i tried to capture what i could see on my reference. thanks anyway for that hint, i sometimes forget. and maybe i shift it a little into the correct direction, could possibly delete irritation. the guardian is not human, he is an "entity" whatever this means. as said, i do not know these games - mechanical things are not in the original concept, so i fear thats not allowed. :(

jaecephus, thank you for those images. yes your second one is the one i have. the first is new to me. he loooks so different. but his gives me some freedom, as the character is not that fixed... yeah, bad teeth is a good idea. i will try this. thanks for helping.

wind walker - thank you. i will use my imagination ;) . yes i like the claw idea. and four fingers, this saves time :rolleyes: . but i will do no feet, as seen in the concept i only need his head and one of his arms and hand. nothing else...

be back to work....

[kokoro]

so here is how far i am. i changed a little to the concept. made blackthorn bigger, so his face will be better to see. this will also be final size of the image.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1052822937aei.jpg

the teeth and hand were modeled from zsperes.

[Wind Walker]

Wow, I love the Guardian's hands and the claws look awesome! Is Blackthorn going to have more hair or is this it? :)

Its coming along really nice, please keep the textures for the Guardian handy, since you already have them maybe you can texture the ingame Guardian model.

The Guardian's eyes look sooo evil! Dare I say that this is turning out better than the original Guardian in the Ultima games! :) Nevertheless, great job Kokoro!

[kokoro]

hey thanks, wind walker. yes blackthorn will get more hair. in one of the final steps. - the guardian is not textured, i just painted on top of the snapshotted model, since i was too lazy to texture the whole face ;) that means it is not reusable as is.

[bad_CRC]

Hi Kokoro,

I'm Bad_CRC, originally known as KaOS. I help windwalker out with the webpage and also some of the backend stuff like maintaining the forums etc.

I must say I really like your work. And would like to pass through a few suggestions.

1) The faces of the characters must show part of there personality. Blackthorn is by essence not an evil person. However he has been corrupted by the Guardian. I think your representation of him is good, the face does come off as being a face of a confused and corrupted person. So that is good. Since he himself is an adventurer and has been in many battles he must also come off like that. A few attributes I think he must have are
Long Hair (Atleast to his shoulders)
Muscular arms and torso
He should also be tall.

As for the guardian, I would get rid of those ears, they make him look too much human like. Which he is not !
He has big meanacing, piercing eyes so they could be made bigger. I love the effects you have done with the eyes, its awesome.
And he has to be *very* big and *very* muscular.
I particularly didn't like the Guardian's representation in Ultima9. I think they made him too much human like.

So good luck and can't wait to see the final project.

[kokoro]

hi bad_crc, thanks for helping. i will take some of your suggestions, but i also got "order" of wind walker to model blackthorn and the guardian as close as possible to the ultima9 presentation. i am a little more free with the presentaion of my blackthorn, a freedom which i already took... so i will keep those ears of the guardian.. i kind of like them too. concerning the size : as you see blackthorn is slighlty more in height than the guardians head, so the guardian is about 8 times taller than blackthorn. that is about the size relation i have seen in the intro movie on wind walkers page...

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1053276113ypz.jpg

[kokoro]

ok, i think the main parts are done. mainly background is missing and the hair of blackthorn and some clean ups. wind walker, how do you want blackthorns hair ? long, or short as on you image ? (i like that better than long btw)

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1053357940nix.jpg

[Reactor]

I just wanted to say how cool that looks :) Great work.

[Grub]

Hi Kokoro, my critique is for you to pick out the nose of the monster on the left a bit more with a light (it looks a little indistinct). :tu:

Edit- I forgot to say, it's really cool. :)

[TVeyes]

The latest one looks very good, the stuff you added to Blackthorn brought him nicely into focus. The only crit would be that the second fingernail(from the bottom up) looks twisted out of place and the color shift on the guardians iris' seems a bit too abrupt. But I have no idea how he is supposed to look, so.. :)

I've only played Ultima 4, many years ago, enjoyed it thoroughly. I especially liked the map that came with it, printed on real cloth it was. Ah the memories :D

Good job so far, looking very much forward to seeing the finished picture :tu:

[Jaycephus]

Grub, he doesn't have nostrils... how can she pick it?

j/k ;)

Kokoro: Given that the Guardian's eyes are so large in the scene, you might want to take a look at this thread on how to add refraction to the lens of an eye:

eye tutorials (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000308)

[Wind Walker]

Wow, I would love to be Blackthorn for a day, just so I could put on that v. funky armor ;)

Great work Kokoro, this gets better by the render :)

[kokoro]

hi grub, yes there are only very faint nostrils, but maybe i can make them more show... the material hides them too.

thank you jaecephus, just what i need ! materials are always my weakest point.

tveyes, i check that fingernail...

wind walker - how about the hair length ? would short be ok for you ?

[kokoro]

comeing closer to the final...

also enhanced the eyes , corrected fingernail, and enhanced nostril, but only very slightly...

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1053428618ljf.jpg

[gummie]

Hey kokoro
You're getting better and better each week! It's great to see this going, nice job. :) I think it's definately coming along nicely, keep it up! :cool: :tu:

[Mahlikus The Black]

This is turning out awesome. Well done kokoro! :D :tu: :tu: :tu:

[Wind Walker]

Kokoro,

Great work, its coming along v. nicely. I think we are going to need longer hair on Blackthorn cause the in game model will have longer hair. Thanks

Other than that its rockin! :)

[kokoro]

final image, i think :)

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1053619652hnm.jpg

[azerty]

FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!
:tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: ;)

[Skaven252]

Beautiful! :D :tu: It has been very interesting to watch this picture progress.

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hi Kokoro
Top Image ! You win the challenge :)
Pilou

[zerobugetgamemaker]

:tu: wonderful piece kokoro :) :tu: :cool:

David

[Grub]

Excellent, Kokoro. :cool: :tu:

[kokoro]

hi thank you all. and there will be an update... wind walker needs blackthorns hair shorter and i am working on some more.... so stay tuned ;)

[kokoro]

hihi - blackthorn went to the hairdresser...

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1053708869qwp.jpg

and here you can see that he was not very eager to do so ;)

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1053708954psz.jpg

[Wind Walker]

Kokoro's excellent work has gotten our project a lot of positive feedback and I wanted to publically thank her and my good fortunes for finding her :)

The website graphics here are her excellent work. This includes amongst other things the entrance page shown on the website below
http://www.e-prizm.com/blackthorn

[gummie]

You're a mod for Dungeon Siege?? Why didn't you say so, I have DS so good luck with your mod. :)

Haven't ran it in ages..

Good to know people are still making mods out there.

Ah and good job with the title page, kokoro! :tu: :)

[Wind Walker]

Hi Gummie,

If you have any modding skills or feel you could help with artwork, we could definetely use the help. And thanks for the nice comments :)

[kokoro]

thank you very much, wind walker. how very sensible of you. :)