Z-brush and poser

[Freak]

Well i just wanted your opinion about using poser with z-brush. Well i have been trying to learn human anatomy and facial stricture and whatever is needed to actually sculpt a human figure and I know I have a very long way until I am able to do so. And i have been reading up add cheeking poser and what is offering and it just seem like cheating i don’t know everything about poser but if some people can help me understand better. For me using poser its useless coz my goal is to learn not to create but simply because poser excise and you could find for free older versions of it witch are still very good it’s hard to understand y not more people are using it (except for pride and the need to create something that they truly theirs)



Thank you very mutch i hope you can help me see it more clearly.

[bicc39]

One of the original purposes of Poser was to provide artists with models
they could "pose". Thus providing painter, sculpters,etc with reference
material that did not charge by the hour, or have to be home at 5:00pm.
This was before the digital industry ( movies,video, etc) got really busy.
Now it is has evolved into something quite different.
The founders had no idea they were creating character around which clothing
lines would flourish.
There is a whole industry built around this program and the materials that are sold for it.
The program itself gives ease to animation, rigging etc.
Now we come to an important point.
In an industry where time is extremely important, Poser/models have found a place, ...but quietly.
Talked to a gentlemen that made something for the History Channel about Rome.
It was cheaper to buy and use poser models and accesories than to sit down and produce from scratch.
There are several tv ads that use Poser models ( changed a bit).
There are normal Poser artists that create many works of imagination
and beauty.
In other words that type of industry has a purpose and a place.
Would also like to point out there is a good dollar to be made there.
Now.
We come to the artists that visit zbrush.
Poser is sneered upon and questions about it are kind of shunted to
the side, like an unwelcome relative.
But Zbrush by its very definition is a program that works with other programs.
If a work was posted that said Maya and Zbrush, no problem. Max and Zbrush,great.
Say Poser and Zbrush and look for the holding of noses with two fingers.
The artists that come here and sneer at Poser, generally fall into the group
that believe unless you made it yourself, it is cheating to use it.
Ok I can understand it. Remember it though, the next time you build a character in Maya and start with a box or sphere you did not make.
So the bottom line to this crap is what are your purposes?
To learn about anatomy, ok that was the original purpose of Poser to begin
with.
To profit from what you do. anything that works is the answer.
Poser users benefit greatly from what Zbrush contributes.

And vice versa...

ssshhhhh!!!!

[bicc39]

Two ps's to the above speech.
1. Sorry about the length.
2. It will be interesting to see any of the other responses...if any.

[jarrett towe]

Poser has its place. It has a great ability to pull technical novices into the 3d realm. Without accessible apps like poser and daz3d, many great artists would have never found their way in, and im sure many people would like it if they had not because of the competition ;)

To me this is interesting. Poser as an application has forced many people to learn texturing, clothing modeling, and rigging. Eventually people want more, and the move on. In the end, the finished work is what matters. Skill and vision have a tendency to become known no matter what tools people are using. I will never scoff at poser artists who are making hundreds of thousands of dollars making textures and models. Or even the ones that are using it just for fun.

[Freak]

Hey man thank you very much for that response its very help and I appreciate very much the time spent to help me understand a bit more. It seems that it’s a big thing that I had no idea about it and i find it confusing as is not like taking a geometry from some one else and making it look like you made it witch is not acceptable if you are trying to make a portfolio but a program that provides it for you. Anw thx and i do hope we get some more reply any comments are more than we come

Ps: can you give me some examples of this network that sale poser staf.

[jarrett towe]

If you are talking about a modeling portfolio, yes Poser would be pretty much a no no. But for lighting, texturing, rendering, composition, for all of these things, it can show someone how well you can tell a story. My advice: go it alone. Make your own comics to sell, assuming you know how to tell a story!

[Disco Stu]

Poser.JPG (javascript:zb_insimg('141119','Poser.JPG',1,0))

[Freak]

hehe nice one

[bicc39]

Nice shot!!!

Thank you Mr. Towe, you said it better and in less space:tu: ;) .

[jarrett towe]

Its funny that this post popped up. Among being a 3d freelancer, I recently added iPhone programmer to my job list. I am developing a template application that would allow artists to create their own applications for sale.

There are 2 obvious applications for this:
1) Self contained comic book. The interface is simple; a back button, a forward button, and a website button. The website button is customizable to the artists website
2) Job Portfolio application. Not only can you put it on your phone, but you can gift it to other people who have the phone, and for free.

Do you guys think people will be interested in something like this? Im going to sell the code and complete documentation for about $5.

[jarrett towe]

Footnote: I had originally planned just to make my own comics for sale using this code, but I figured, what the heck, there might just be some other artists out there that could benefit from the grunt work I already put into the template applications.

These template applications are xcode projects. Xcode is the free sdk software that you get when you sign up as an iphone developer. To sell applications you have to pay Apple $99 a year. To give applications away for free, there is an educational type of membership for free.

You do have to have a macintosh to compile the apps. But you dont have to own one. You can just borrow one, or make a hackintosh to do the compiling and app submission process. Sorry I got long here. Im in the middle of writing 50 pages of documentation, and being wordy is my method at the moment.

[mestophales]

There is a base of 500000 users in the poser community and that number is still growing.

There is a huge market for people who make poser content. This was the topic at my last CGDallas Usergroup meeting.

You can create awesome Game Spirtes or really nice renders for print.

I have been creating poser content for the last several years and my business is growing.

ZBrush definitely adds a lot to the community - the one thing to remember is that poser will choke on anything larger than 124k polys. So displacement maps are a must, in the pro version normal maps are supported as well.

[Freak]

thank you for the new info.

[bicc39]

There is a base of 500000 users

I knew someone else had it!!!!

[mestophales]

Ha Ha

[Disco Stu]

I just bet this arent 500000 proffesional users tho.
We would see a lot more poser work if that were the case i guess.

[mestophales]

Well, you are absolutely right, the vast majority of poser users are hobbyists, people just starting out or content to do the virtual Ken & Barbie doll type stuff.

There are a certain number of pro users who use poser for book covers, magazine print ads, that kind of stuff.

DAZ3D has had models in movies such as X-Men 3, Hollow Man, and others.

So if you are looking to make poser content there is definitely a market. You would not be able to sell a model for $250 but you could at $19.99 and go for quantity.

For those who scoff at this, hey that is fine too. If you want to get your feet wet and try it out shoot me an email.

[Campeador]

Hi
I´m want to start making content for Poser, especially clothes for V4/M4. Tutorials for this subject is pretty uncommon and the ones that I have found never answers all my questions. I tried to send you an email after reading this post but it did not work. Could you possibly give me some tips and point me in the right direction?

Thanks
Campeador

[mestophales]

Shoot me an email to mestophales@yahoo.com andwill help you any way that I can.

[Dysfunctional]

So I was actually able to use the PoserScaler tool and create some morphs for Daz3D's Victoria 4. Now that I know it can work, It will be fun to continue to create morphs. But it raises a question for me that hopefully someone in the community can answer...

If you want to increase detail and get the most out of your morph targets, subdividing will invariably come into play. However, if you were to try to import the subdivided geometry into Poser and load the morph target, it would not work because of a "Wrong Number of Vertices" error. My question is, is it possible to subdivide just a portion of the geometry for more detail? I don't understand why any vertex data should matter beyond the "connecting" vertices, in other words, those verts that connect the body part to the other body parts. Like, If I made a morph target for Victoria 4's head, but only subdivide the portion of her head that doesn't contain vertices that connect to the neck, shouldn't I be able to use the morph target? Is it impossible to add more geometry to the model this way?

Sorry if I sound like a n00b, but I am. I haven't been using ZBrush long at all, and I want to be able to subdivide the geometry of Victoria 4 to add more detail to the mesh, then add these morph targets and have them work. Any help or instruction (such as a tutorial) would be pure, epic win. Thanks in advance!

[dargelos]

I might be wrong but I think the only way to add more detail to your morph is using bumps. displacement or normal maps. ....
I never made a poser character but i think you could also try to use set up and make a whole new poser figure with the subdivided mesh . as long as you keep the polygroups names so the poser skeleton would recognize it..

[Dysfunctional]

Thanks for your reply. I still don't know how to create displacement maps from ZBrush morphs yet. As I mentioned, I'm a n00b. But how do these displacement maps work in conjunction with existing UVmaps? These models are already UVmapped and creating new UVs for ZBrush maps would probably be more trouble than it's worth.

As far as just subdividing the entire mesh and using that on the existing skeleton, the overall model would be a HUGE poly count. It would probably cripple Poser, since that app very poorly allocates memory usage and barely takes advantage of OpenGL (not sure about Poser 8; haven't upgraded). But I think it wouldn't matter anyway, because the Daz3D millenium figures (Victoria 4, Michael 4, etc.) have a large quantity of complex magnets to more accurately recreate things like flexing muscles, etc. and to reduce joint bending issues. So these magnets would be lost I think if you created an entirely new, subdivided mesh. At any rate, if not it's well beyond my skill level and I wouldn't know how to approach it. Any other members out there who aren't CG elitists with a distaste for Poser users have any suggestions how to import subdivided geometry into the Daz figures? As morph targets or otherwise?

Thanks for the help/advice so far!

[fixme]

like to see more zbrush & dazstudio tutorials here

[fixme]

Hi
I´m want to start making content for Poser, especially clothes for V4/M4. Tutorials for this subject is pretty uncommon and the ones that I have found never answers all my questions. I tried to send you an email after reading this post but it did not work. Could you possibly give me some tips and point me in the right direction?

Thanks
Campeadorindeed, there are no good tutorials online that explains this process very well!
to bad :cry:

[invertedNormal]

Hi, Dysfunctional.

you cannot change the vertex count/order (i.e. subdivide, extrude, delete) of your Poser figure to create morph targets, nor change the UV layout of the Poser figure. Trying to do so would break the Poser model and none of the preexisting morphs or textures for the model would work anymore. If you need more detail in an area that can't be accomplished by a morph target, you will have to fake the detail with maps baked in ZBrush (i.e. bump map, normal maps [Poser 8 and 7 Pro only], diffuse/color map, and/or a displacement map). There's plenty of ZB tutorials around here on how to bake those maps in ZBrush.

If you have a more specific question, i'd be glad to answer or find the answer for both of us ;)

[jangcastillo33]

can you refer or lead me into one or at least, two tutorials regarding to that?

[bicc39]

http://www.darkedgedesign.com/

[dark_b]

what displacement settings are you using for Poser 8?

when i export a displacement map from zbrush 3.5 the grey is not the same grey that poser reads. and it deforms my figure.

[mestophales]

I generally use 0.01333

Did you remember to flip the displacement map?