Just tested the demo - some questions

[Skaven252]

First of all, hello everyone! I'm new to this board. A friend tipped me off to ZBrush and I got really fascinated by the concept so I decided to give the demo a try.

It feels so cool I could buy this - not for work, but for personal hobbyist use. But before I do, I'd like to know some things that I wasn't exactly sure about when looking at the tutorials. I hope you don't mind me asking.

1) When creating 3D primitives into the painting (cubes, spheres, etc), you can rotate and modify them freely, but if you create something after that, the first object seems to get "stuck" - you can't seem to do anything to it after that. How do I modify these objects later on? I guess it has to do with "multi-marking"? (that feature was disabled in the demo so I couldn't try it out) How do I melt a bunch of spheres together into a single blob, like I've seen done in the step-by-step tutorials?

2) When modelling / painting a creature, does it need to be posed first, then equipped with detail, or is it easy to change the pose of the creature afterwards? In artsy-fartsy terms, is painting in ZBrush like creating a sculpture (= static), or is it like creating an animatronic puppet (= moveable)?

3) If you create a very complex illustration with lots of strokes, primitives, etc, will ZBrush slow down a lot?

I've seen some really amazing works of art posted in the gallery and in this forum. My compliments to the artists!

If I buy this, the first thing I'll do after my practice sessions, is to try to make a ZBrush version of some of my old doodles (http://www.futurecrew.org/skaven/artwork_drawings.html). :)

[Reactor]

Well, I know there are some guys on the board here that can answer your questions in a lot less words than what I can (I'm new here also- just having bought it for hobbyist use myself) but one thing that answered a good 90% of my questions was the manual. You can grab the Zbursh 1.55 maunal off this board, and the normal one off the website. Either one will give you a good run-down of how things work.

I can answer one of your questions quickly though. Zbrush is fast. I have a nigh on 2Ghz system, but I've pushed Zbrush pretty hard. Where other programs seem to fail, Zbrush carries on. It's not a slow program by any means.

Great artwork, btw ;)

And I'll leave the other questions for the more experienced, assuming you still have some after the manual. I'm off to bed :)

[Mentat7]

Welcome aboard Skaven! As Reactor has already suggest the manual will answer a great many of your questions. Failing that you will most likely find an answer in the QUICKLINKS section of ZBC.

1) When you drop the object and select another tool your original model is still available. Just look in the TOOLS pallet and you will see the model there. Just select it again, drag it out on the work area and enter EDIT mode (hit the T button) and you will be able to edit it once again. ZBrush only allows one active object at a time. As soon as you select another tool the model will be snapshotted into the canvas. With a little practice you will get used to this feature.

2) Posing and modeling...it all depends on your comfort level with detailing and with what you are attempting to accomplish. You can do some rudimentary modeling on the Adaptive mesh while you are creating your ZSphere figure...just hit the A key to go into PREVIEW mode and you can edit the mesh...once done just hit the A key again and you will be in ZSphere mode. You can then rotate arms and legs etc and create a pose. When you finally make the Adaptive skin it will retain the editing you did. Note that extreme movements or editing detail may really muck up when you pose it so it is good to keep hitting the A key while posing it so you can see how the pose is affecting the mesh. If the mesh looks really wacked just go to TOOLS>DEFORMATIONS and set MORPH to 100. This will delete all mesh changes you did to the tool. Generally I create the ZSPhere figure in a generic arms-out pose. Once I have it built to my satisfaction I save the tool then I pose it. I do my modeling after skinning.

3) ZBrush is very fast and handles most things well. There are several things that can bog it down however.
A) Extremely large document sizes with many layers...eats up memory real fast and slows ZB down.
B) High poly count objects. A 260,000 poly model will bog you down much more than say a 6,000 poly model
C) Large number of RAYS used in Shadows. The more you use the longer the render time.

These are just minor things though and the amount of slow down will be determined by what type of system you have. For example if you have 1.5 gig of Ram then the large doc sizes and huge poly counts aren't as great an issue.

[aurick]

Welcome aboard!

In addition to the great responses that you've already received, I'd just like to point you in the direction of the Quick Reference Guide (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=010737). This contains reference material to help you learn the ZBrush basics quickly.

Also at the top right corner of every page here at ZBC there is a link to the QuickLinks. Be sure to check out the QuickLinks for New Users and the Version 1.55b QuickLinks. There are many excellent tutorials in both threads, and a lot of great advice.

[Skaven252]

Thank you for your replies! Looking at all the references and so forth, it seems this program has quite a learning curve despite the extensive documentation.

Guess it'll be a while before I'll be able to produce anything useful with it. So far I've only been painting weird blobs of various shapes and colors. :o

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hi Skaven
The essential is the fun :)
With a little training you can approach the ZMasters or invent and share your own research !
Have happy Zbrushing :cool:
Pilou
Ps Your Ugly duck remain
my orange duck :) (http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=323686&Start=109&Artist=Frenchy%5FPilou&ByArtist=Yes)
and it's a 3D model !

[Reactor]

True- Zbrush has a high learning curve. But, with a community and support this strong, you tend to figure things out fast, a improve at a really high rate. If you'd like to see examples of how things are done (by the pros) I also found the Zscripts included with the demo (and full version) amazingly helpful. I watched a few of them over and over again, until I realised how things were done.

[Skaven252]

All right! Here's the fruit of last night's labors. Frenchy Pilou, what a coincidence! I also decided to start with UglyDuck. I figured it has a rather simple basic shape and layout so it should be easy to start with.

Here's the picture (http://www.futurecrew.org/skaven/share/zbrush/UglyDuck_ZBrush_01.jpg) (all it has now is the head and eyes)

I started with painting a flat background. I continued with a yellow sphere into which I moulded the eye sockets and brows. I then pulled out the "feathers" on top of the head with the Snake Hook brush. I inserted a couple of stretched blue spheres into the eye sockets (in a separate layer), and then used the Sphere Brush to paint the pupils onto the eyes (in a yet separate layer). After this I tried painting an outline around the duck with a Paintbrush in another flat layer.

I found the duck's bill pretty hard to model, so it still sits in a hidden layer; I tried starting with a flattened cube, but it seems to go all jagged and wrinkly when I try to shape it (maybe because it's been flattened out so the vertices are too dense?). Any suggestions how I should go about the bill?

Also, since the head is now in place and modified, there's no way to scale and rotate it any more? I noticed that the proportions aren't exactly right compared to the original (http://www.futurecrew.org/skaven/artwork/uglyduck.jpg), nor the rotation, etc.. so how do I scale/rotate the layers once they've been converted to pixols? Is there any way to do it? Or do I have to Clear the layer, Restore the 3D object I was working on, place it again, then do the Snake Hooks again?

It was also a bit hard to get the pupils in the right place and shape (as you can see, I'm not too happy with the current results). Perhaps I should have used 3D spheres instead of the Sphere Brush?

I found it hard to paint them at the right height - they initially seemed to appear in the bottom of the illustration (behind the background), so I had to Displace them into place afterwards. Is there any way to determine the 'default Z height' the paint strokes appear?

[Reactor]

I believe the picker is the tool you want. (not under tools... it's part of the menu)

Reproducing a picture is a good way of pushing yourself to understand all that Zbrush can do. Great first attempt :)

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hi Skaven
As you have the demo you couldn't import the original image as a background :)
You right for the eyes you must make a 3DObject in a separate layer : it's very easy after to rotate it in the good orientation :) (must be a sphere with deformation as your 2DModel, all is deformable in Z :D)
In fact in general a sphere is the best primitive for any thing, you must use a sphere3D for the head as you ever can rotate derform model etc at any time !
And for all composant of your model !
So you can paint it with Texture Master or with less detail in the "Edit" mode (take care Disable Material for not deform your model !!!
It's also a great habit to make "clone" for protect misfunctionnaly at the beginning !
And last :ex: as a demo user you can't save the 3DModel (just 2D) so you must work in only one session :D
Hope this help :)
Have happy Zbrushing !
Pilou
Ps the trick for eliminate "Jaggie" is work twice the final size for reduce at the End
(not very practicale for the demo user ;)

[Skaven252]

Allrightee! The work on the UglyDuck continues!

I spent a good while learning to model in ZSpheres, then bashed my head against a wall before I realized they're not the ideal way to create the duck bill. I then started simply with a sphere and got much better results.
http://www.futurecrew.org/skaven/share/zbrush/UglyDuck_ZBrush_02.jpg

I ditched the outline. Perhaps there's a better way to do it later on.

Boy, I still have a long way to go.... :D

[Mentat7]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I spent a good while learning to model in ZSpheres, then bashed my head against a wall before I realized they're not the ideal way to create the duck bill. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


You can create anything with ZSpheres bud. Try this quickie DuckBill.TXT (http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_file-1051822981euj.txt) script. It will give a good idea of how to create it with ZSpheres. :)

[Skaven252]

Wow, amazing! Thanks! So that's how it's done... start with a basic U-shape and work from there onwards.

What a wonderful community ZBrush has here.

[Ron Harris]

Skaven....your questions have been answered, I just wanted to let you know I went and viewed your sketches on your site....very very impressive work and style. :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:

[Skaven252]

Ron Harris;
Thank you for your kind words, glad to hear you liked what you saw!

Now I'll just have to learn to use ZBrush to make similar stuff in semi-3D. It's just such an amazing concept. It's like painting with oils or sculpting with clay, but something completely different. Totally unique.

I mean, I could have taken one of those pencil drawings and colored it in Photoshop... but when working that way, just shading everything correctly is such a chore. And here we have ZBrush that does it automatically, so you can concentrate on other things. Woohoo!

Mentat7;
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>You can do some rudimentary modeling on the Adaptive mesh while you are creating your ZSphere figure...just hit the A key to go into PREVIEW mode and you can edit the mesh...once done just hit the A key again and you will be in ZSphere mode.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just tried this, and yes, it seems to work! Really handy! I also learned that if you add or remove any ZSpheres from the model after doing some modelling on the skin, all the changes on the skin will be lost. Well, it's good I learned it at this point and not during creating something really big and complex...

After I've finished modelling the duck, I may want to add an outline around it to make it look like a 'toon. I thought about just creating a flat layer on top of everything else and hand-drawing it, but is it possible to create a dark outline around pixol lumps with the Glow material? Is it possible to create a black glow instead of a luminant one to use as an outline?

[Mentat7]

I am sure there are a number of ways this can be done but in this example I chose to use the Stencil feature to create the outline. First I placed the model etc then used MRGBZ grab to grab a texture and alpha. I then created a new layer and filled it with a solid color and FLAT material. I then made sure I was still on the background layer (not the model layer!), went to ALPHAS and chose the alpha I had just grabbed and clicked on Make St (make stencil) which appeared instantly on the screen. Holding down the space bar I resized it and moved it until it formed an outline around the model...note it is not a perfectly scaled outline. I then chose the simple brush and black color with RGB selected only and painted in the stencil. I moved the stencil around several times to get the outline all the way around the figure. With a little tweaking and experimentation I am sure you can get this to work the way you want. You may also want to check out the toon material and take a look on the quicklinks...several threads there about toon materials. :)


http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200305/user_image-1051879803irx.jpg

[Hymnofnot]

Well Skaven I'm somewhat in the same boat as you..New User here...I delved into Zbrush a while back...didn't really get far at the time for other reasons....but now I'm back and determined to learn .

Nice "doodles" by the way :)
(Reminds me that I need to get a scanner)

-= Hymnofnot =-

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hi Hymno
Welcome aboard :)
Zbrush is so funny that learning is easy !
Have happy Zbrushing !
Pilou

[Mahlikus The Black]

I just wanted to say welcome aboard. I too have checked out your sketches and not only are there some amazing ideas there but let me tell you...ZBrush IS for you!

I am going to tell you a little story. I have only been working in 3D since july of last year. I found it really hard to make what I wanted...it was just too time consuming. Then, in august, I found ZBrush and its been peaches and cream since. I have progressed more in ZBrush then I ever thought I could. The reason being....this wonderful site! I tell you what bud, your in the right place and at the right time. Now...
It may seem that the learning curve is high but cosidering other 3D apps, it isnt too bad. I have been using ZB for about 8 months now and I feel I have a well enough knowledge of how everything works. Try doing that by your self with LW, 3DSMax, C4D. and Maya... ;) :D
So, once again, welcome..and I'm looking forward to how things turn out for you.

Peace and HAppy ZBrushin!! :cool: :tu:

[Hymnofnot]

One thing I love about ZBrush is...The ability to create "On the go" meaning..I used to draw...alot...even to the extent of making "Tranformers" out of paper as a kid that actually transformed. (Don't you wish your mom never threw out some of your stuff?)
Anywho...Being in in Civil Engineering and Designing within the laws and local "boundaries". I kinda lost a bit of that "creativeness" through the years...But since I jumped back into ZBrush, Without a clue in the world as to what I was about to create...I just pull out the trusty 3dSphere..have a whirl...and let my hands do the talking.

I'm also getting myself back to "Freehand" line drawing...I don't wanna loose my artistic Edge =)

-= Hymnofnot =-