Barghest

[jonnybravo]

This is the model i'll be entering in this years dominance war. I thought i should post it here too since this is the best place to get criticism on your models just cause many of the best digital sculptors out there are posting here.

still have to get the same level of detail on the rest of the muscles of the body as on the front upper legs. Before you ask, i made those groove's in between muscles so exagerated because this character wont have much skin on it. The muscles will be exposed, i want it to look like it was skinned. In some places i'll make the bones show up too.

screencap_work_resized_01.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:zb_insimg%28%27134710%27,%27screencap_work_resized_01.jpg%27,1,0%29)
screencap_work_resized_02.jpg


it's the first time i'm trying to make a model with such enlarged muscles. It's a little tough to get the exact look i'm going for. I'm using the Ellenberger & Baum "Atlas of Animal Anatomy for Artists" for references.
I still need to detail the head and the paws, and after that i'll add some horns and other detail to make it more menacing.

Any C&C is very much apreciated

[jonnybravo]

update
i still have the lower legs and the head to detail (and enlarge the paws)....at the moment they're barely sketched

screencap_work_resized_03.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:zb_insimg%28%27135145%27,%27screencap_work_resized_03.jpg%27,1,0%29)
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[jonnybravo]

teeth added...also a rough start on the spine. Still no update on the lower legs
screencap_work_resized_10.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:zb_insimg%28%27135913%27,%27screencap_work_resized_10.jpg%27,1,0%29)
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[Morph Division]

another bull, how many can we sacrifice?

[dustinbrown]

It's fantastic that you're using anatomy reference for this. My only comment is that I'm not getting the sense that this animal's muscles have insertion points or are overlapping like they should in nature. They currently look more like puzzle pieces that are just stuck onto him.

What brushes are you using?

-Dustin

[jonnybravo]

mostly the standard brush....and clay and inflate here an there...the thing is....if a run a quick smooth on the spaces between the muscles they immediately start to look better....but i wanted to mantain those accentuated grooves between the muscles because at the end most of the body of this animal won't be covered by skin...and so the muscles will be exposed...so i figured the spaces between them must be accentuated. Even so, i'm aware that they're looking odd, and i shall make another detail pass at them cause this won't do. You're right for pointing this out, thanks for the reply ;). Any tips are welcomed. I haven't really modelled any muscles up until now so it's an important learnig process for me

[dustinbrown]

Clay Tubes brush works very well for this sort of work. Also, if you know that muscle A is partially tucked under muscle B, then don't stop creating muscle A at the point where muscle B overlaps. Rather, sculpt all of muscle A, then sculpt muscle B on top of it. It's an additive process. This should give you a more organic result.

Also, don't get too crazy with the smooth brush or you're likely obliterate many of the happy accidents in the process that break things up nicely. Over smoothing tends to mute (for lack of a better word) a sculpt, almost like if you had a vivid black and white Ansel Adams photograph and applied Gaussian Blur to it in Photoshop.

-Dustin

[jonnybravo]

dustinbrown your advices made so much sence that i smoothed out all the muscles on the upper arm and neck and restarted the process and sure enough....it looks much better....and much closer to the result i'm looking for.

It's not perfect yet but i feel i'm getting the hang of it. Thanks a million for the advices, they will surelly make a big difference in the final look of this model. I eagerly await any other comments and/or advices from you and the other forum members
screencap_work_11(restructure_muscles).jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:zb_insimg%28%27135996%27,%27screencap_work_11%28restructure_muscles%29.jpg%27,1,0%29)

[gegrazion_1]

Very nice sculpt, i do think that he needs to look more weighted, he just looks too stiff at the moment, keep up the good work :)


http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=68972

[mxhaunted]

Looking food so far. I find you get a more natural finish if you use photo refference over drawn anatomy ref. Also, as pointed out, the clay and clay tube brush can give you some nice natural finishes.

Also, your model reminded me of this little dog:

http://blogmuscle.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/wendy1.png
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/06/11/us/12dog-600.jpg
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/07_01/whippetDM1207_468x255.jpg
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/07_01/whippetDM1207_468x288.jpg

[jonnybravo]

gegrazion_1 you're absolutely right...i'm gonna try and take care of that stiffness to the best of my abilities.

mxhaunted thanks m8:). I'll try and fallow your advice and mix in some photographic references.

restructured most of the muscles with the clay tubes brush. Probably not really enough for an update but i'm forced to take a break of this project for a few days and i wanted to post the latest progress until i get back on it

screencap_work_12.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:zb_insimg%28%27136009%27,%27screencap_work_12.jpg%27,1,0%29)

ps: can i post thumbnails instead of full sized images?....i want to edit my previous posts and put thumbnails instead of the images cause this post is getting cluttered. I'll try and search the forum for answers on this.

[jonnybravo]

update....lower legs detailed and claws added

screencap_work_resized_20.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:zb_insimg%28%27136616%27,%27screencap_work_resized_20.jpg%27,1,0%29)
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edit: i searched the forum and i still didn't find out how can i post clickable thumbnails instead of the full sized images....maybe someone can help me out

[Mind Symbion]

Nice sculpt dude! ;)
Agree with Dustin Brown, don't smooth it too much!
And don't forget to enable the perspective view by pressing "P", It will correct the proportions.

[nerveink]

hey dude. how can i put this nicely.....your model needs a lot of work mate.
i dont know exactly what style or look your going for but the anatomy of this creature is looking not good. i just see a bunch of lumps of meat with no begining or end attachment. it just looks like slabs of meat laid on top of each other. mucles are attached to bones and each muscle has a "counter muscle".
on the bottom view that shows the stomach mucles, the six pack abruptly goes to the inner leg muscles. theres no pelvic area.this guy has no reproductive organs..it takes away from the realism..


i presume you have been using the clay brushes to form the muscles??? the clay brushes are probably the best brushes for creating muscle details, but it seems as though you got a little bit carried away. best advice i could give you is gather as much refrence material as you can and study, study study. try to mimic some details from the refrence you gather. it will help to train your eyes :)


hope i helped/

all the best mate.

[Aberrant]

First off, good work! Second, Dustin Brown knows whats up, he's like the Oracle :-P

Looking forward to seeing more progress.

[jonnybravo]

Mind Symbion thank you ;)

nerveink totally appreciate the honesty man, no need to sugarcoat it, i always like harsh criticism. I'm completely aware that it's far from being very realistic as far as execution goes....mostly because some of the muscles have loose ends....even if i really tried to connect all of them to a bone....in some places i can't quite sculpt the image that i have in my mind:). I think that the muscles on the upper arm are mostly responsable for the impression you got, i still think that most of them have the connections with the bones done(i could be wrong though...maybe i'm not looking hard enough). My mistake is that i never actually modeled muscles before....and i went head first on this project....and i also picked a pretty hard theme to model cause like i said i'm trying to create a very bulgy creature with exposed muscles (no fur and skin over them) and this is something i should have tackled after i gathered some experience with some easier models. I studied references throughout the whole modelling process and i'm pretty confident that most of the muscle placement is correct...but as you said....some places like the pelvic area lack realism because there and in a few other areas i felt like improvising...something i probably shouldn't do....like in photography....it's best to first know the rules, then you can brake them:). I'm very eager to learn though....i haven't sculpted enough up until now and i want to dedicate more time to this area(i'm getting really bored with the archviz stuff i'm doing at work). I hope you noticed the big improvement after Dustin's advices though:), i look at how the model was before and i feel really ashamed that i even bothered to post that.
Many many thanks for your reply, much appreciated. If you happen to find this thread again anytime you see something wrong with the updates don't be afraid to rip it to shreds :)
Ps: Awesome sketch thread....will keep my eye on it for inspiration.

Aberrant Thanks...i'm glad you like it :). Also Dustin has been very helpfull indeed.

[jonnybravo]

Update:
Still so much more i would like to do with this guy but the deadline is closing in and i'm not sure if i'll be able to finish in time. Due to the many projects i have running at the moment i can't find as much time as i would have liked to work on this model. Also i reached abut 3 mil polis and if i subdivide it to the next level to add the final details my pc just can't handle it :(

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