DW4 - gegrazion - Demon Prince

[gegrazion_1]

Hey guys i thougth id put up some work ive been doing for the dominace war 4 comp, stil early concepts but thougth id put some up to show what sorta direction im goin in. if youve got any sujestions im all ears, at the moment im trying to decide what secondary weapon he shud have. im stil blocking in he main forms of where the armor and whoel design, im feeling prety happy with it so far so im guna get cracking on actualy finalising a few key details. hope you guys like it :)
Demon_P_1.jpg Demon_P_2.jpg
these were just rough head sketches, i wanted him to have very similar abilites to the main character in prince of persia, i wanted him to be very fast and a strong but look unthreathend by these 50foot mechs and monsters. D_P_full_1.jpg D_P_full_4.jpg D_P_full_5.jpg D_P_full_8.jpg D_P_full_9.jpg
just thought id show some progression pics :)

[Heiner_hink]

... but in my opinion, the lower legs should be a bit stronger. Currently they look a bit out of proportion, me thinks.
Cheers
Heiner

[gegrazion_1]

yh i agree, thanks for pointing it out. ill post an update soon :)

[gegrazion_1]

hey just an update, just guna show few stages. any crits wud be great. Didnt think any of my sketches realy captured this demon type character so went bk to basics.

D_P_full_11.jpg

D_P_full_12.jpg

Its his this and hand, thought id mock sumat up.

D_P_full_14.jpg



D_P_full_15.jpg

D_P_full_17.jpg

thought id put my character in scene, really starting to come to life

D_P_full_19.jpg

[truthhunter]

can ya plz make him more meaner and wicked he would look awesome

as i always say keep em comin

[willBurdett]

that is looking pretty cool. could be a very nice model. if you wanna push it a bit more try looking at the recent prince of persia game for inspiration, especially the hunter character could give you some nice ideas.

http://ammr606.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/prince-of-persia-20080711043026324_640w.jpg

[truthhunter]

this is what i meant like hunter character

[willBurdett]

my bad, missed that bit about pop,
still, looking good.

[gegrazion_1]

i shud sleep more ive only had 3 hours haha, but that concept is amazing, thanks alot guys ill get some more reference and bang sumat up asap, im no concept artist so might not look as slick lol :) you guys got any other sujestions by all means send um my way :) thanks alot it realy inspires me to work harder

[gegrazion_1]

Hey ive been workin some more on my design. Its just a head shot, it is just to get a sense of the characters personality, im trying to go for phycotic/ evil. im happy with the outcome since im no concept artist. Well tell me what ya think and if you got any sujestions im all ears :)
D_P_full_20.jpg

[The Cheshire Cat]

Awesome stuff, so much cool concept art. Can't wait to see developements.

[BillyT]

i'm really liking where the last drawing of the head is at, it's definitely getting where it needs to be. the only thing that i'm not really a fan of is the, i guess i'll call it a tail coming out of the head. maybe if it were longer hair. i'm just not liking the spiked hair and then the tail. maybe even try going without the hair. maybe try incorporating more spikiness to the helmet. but of all the hair that you've done, i'm liking the hair from the pics that says he will have legs on them. thats my input. but once again it is really progressing towards something great.

[Etcher]

Hi gegrazion_1! The head sketch looks awesome! :tu: !

[GregStrangis]

Hey gegrazion the last head sketch looks great man! The armor and such looks nice as well, I think its time for 3D :D

[gegrazion_1]

The Cheshire Cat: thanks man, nice to know people are starting to like my work :)

BillT: I no what your saying about the tail because on the head shot it dont really look so great but i think it really helps to tie the design in in the full body shot. i didnt focus on the hair or tentacle for the head peice, i just made them in 10 minutes just to get an impression of how it was looking. Ill do a full body shot soon and hopefully might win you round lol

Etcher: Thanks alot really nice to here that, all these replys really inspires me to do more, but push myself further.

GregStrangis: Haha im way of doing 3D, still more concepting needs to be done before im totaly happy with it.

Im going to start carrying on my design after my tea so updates will be coming :) be patient

[gegrazion_1]

Well this is a small update , i just thined out his face a little and i think he looks more sinister and evil, what do you guys think?

D_P_head_thin.jpg

[Darukin]

Wow this is looking quite badass I love the concepts!

[BlueSpot]

Great improvement, keep it up mate!

[SolidSnakexxx]

Wow, really nice design evolution here. This will translate to ZBrush model real well! I look forward to seeing that.

[gegrazion_1]

Thanks :) at the moment im just spendin some time redesigning him, i stil want a very similar look to what ive done just needs some funky armor. ill be updating it in the next few days when ive done a finished sketch :)

[gegrazion_1]

Weapon_1.jpg

Well thougth id get the weapon out of the way. The small staff can transform into other weapons due to his inner power death/darkness. i do think the staff could look a little cooler, but due to texture size and the fact the handle wont be the main focus of the finished peice its not really sumat im guna lose sleep over. Ive noticed the handle looks a little short for him to hold but ill lenghten it when i model it, pointless redrawing it. Well hope you like it guys :)

[Elvaron]

nice, clean design. way to prioritize, it'll surely look great without costing too much time compared to, say, a warhammer of epic proportions... :rolleyes:

[gegrazion_1]

Well just a small update. Its some rough orthos for the head and a shot showing how his muscle structure looks. its not perfect but im no anatomy expert, didnt use any reference so hope its not too bad :)

D_Muscles_orthos.jpg

[gegrazion_1]

Well another update. i think he looks much stronger without the hair and tail, they seem to distract me and confuse what im ment to be looking at, with just the mask i can really see alot more of his personality straight away. I am redesigning the weapon and im going to add a few more details and bits of equipment on his belt so its not finished yet. Hope you like it and tell me which 1 you guys prefer, im feeling number 1 :)

P_1.jpg

P_2.jpg

P_3.jpg

P_4.jpg

P_5.jpg

[DELTATHUND3R]

I like 4,I still like the hair idea:).Maybe rap his hair around 1 leg give his hair some life:).

[gegrazion_1]

Well im lookin at my rough design and relised it realy needs some cool unique features. im guna play with the idea soem more and hopefully have an update soon. if u guys have any thougth on how i can really improve my design im all ears :)

[gegrazion_1]

Well heres a rough mockup of my prince with some armor and a weapon, very rough just playing around seeing what i like. i tried to stay away from shoulder pads and armor as best as pos but it just looks better with them. the chains on his shoulders are goin to hook in his skin, the weapon is an axe type. Do you tink its an improvment? i think he looks the part more. i think his belt and down need some work now, maybe some blets and extra equipment. im playing around with the idea of my prince defeating all the previous DW winners but i wont the faces to be skinned and placed sumwhere on him, i was thinkin hanging from his belt but not really sure, any ideas there? thanks :)

P_extras.jpg

[gegrazion_1]

This is just a pose i had in mind, i think having his little minions around him would look awsome, really help him look like hes a prince of darkness.

P_pose.jpg

Just an idea for a pedestool. its a giant wave of darkness, some arms and heads showing up.

P_Pedestool.jpg

[gegrazion_1]

Well this is 1 out of 5 of my minions, hopefully im going to make each minion bout 500 - 800 polys. There going to be about 2-3 foot roughly in height. Was just a quick sketch hope you like it :)

MinionA_.jpg

[fattkid]

It's always cool to see the process shots and concept work for a piece, and you've got some neat stuff goin on here. Kinda seems like your sketches are all very similiar though. Perhaps some more bold or uninhibited design experiments could really help find a cool and effective look and feel. More big/interesting/dynamic shapes in the armour, outfit, weaponry etc. Your last pose, with the weapon and the long head shape, is closer to what I'm talking about. There's some interesting stuff going on there. Even though it's gonna be a 3d character, think about the "composition" of it. Where the viewer will look first (usually the head) and how the viewers eye will travel through the design. The sizes and shapes of the anatomy, armor, etc will create a visual impact, so ask yourself, what sort of visual impact is my design making, and how effective is it? In the early concepting stage, when looking at ideas, the different iterations shoud be blatantly obvious, whereas, with yours, the differences seem pretty subtle. Unless you have something very specific in mind already that you are working towards.

I'm really liking the minion. Nice anatomy, gesture, silhouette etc. It'll make a good little hellish sidekick.

Hope I don't sound like I'm bustin your chops. Your workin hard and doin some cool stuff. Just thought I'd throw my opinion out there, for what it's worth. Look forward to seeing this piece evolve and good luck with Dominance War!

[gegrazion_1]

Yes from the start ive had a clear direction thats why there isnt much experimenting. Im just starting the model of my criter, ive got a very nice idea for my final peice but not showing it yet, shud be intersting i hope :) thanks for your comments tho i do agree with what youve mentioned, first time in a few years ive actualy drawn or designed anything so its been a dificult proces for me bt im realy starting to enjoy myself. Hopefully if i can i wna create 5 minions, and my main character, but mite be difficult so i mite just do 3. thanks again :)

[gegrazion_1]

Well i tried making a basemsh with zpsheres and it realli didnt wrk lol dey dnt agree with me, seem to be realy temperamental. i made it in maya, all quads, im guna relax now but im guna do some sculpting soon :)

MInionA_Wireframe.jpg

[gegrazion_1]

Well this is my minion started sculting it now, taken me just under an hour. No reference used yet so muscle flow aint perfect, just trying to get a basic feel for my character. Hope you like it :)


Minion_F_angle.jpg

Minion_F.jpg

Minion_S.jpg

Minion_BK_angle.jpg

[Martin@PIXOLOGIC]

Very nice start!!!

[MSMBrush]

good oyyy

[gegrazion_1]

Well just a small update, began sculpting his head, First time ive ever followed a concept :) Going to start on his body before i go crazy with detailing his head. any crits im all ears jst rember its stil early days :)

M_1.jpg
M_2.jpg

[Moni-Poroni]

The horns look great! Can´t wait to see the further development.

[romilkchoprazb]

Hey this is going to be a great one man,looking forward to the updates.:tu:

[sasquatchpoacher]

Head is coming along nicely.

[gegrazion_1]

Thanks alot guys :) Ive just woke up and im bught to get stuck into my minion again, task for today is finish 80% of the high poly and then if i can give him enough texture space then might go bk in and detail him some more. Im not very fast at modeling so this is going to be a big task for me :)

[gegrazion_1]

Well im realy hoping to get this done by today, only thing im realy worrying about is how much detail my low poly model is goin to have, since im making at least 3 of them and a main character hmmmm wel ive worked on the proportions a bit and the head, exagerating the details a bit so you can see it at a distance and so it apears better in the normal map. Btw hes figure is ment to be exagerated :)


M_U_1.jpg


M_U_2.jpg

M_U_3.jpg

[gegrazion_1]

Well didnt like his six pack much, just didnt think it added much to my character so heres a little update. going to work on the arms now :)

M_stomach2.jpg
M_stomach.jpg

[gegrazion_1]

Well ive decided roughly my main character will have texture space of 1024x1024 whilst my minions will roughly have a 512x512 give or take. Well ive been worrying whether my characters will look good with only around 512x512 texture per character so i decicded to test it out. I think it obtains alot of detail considering its just a proxy mesh and uvd within zbrush.

M_Normal_1.jpg

M_Normal_2.jpg

[romilkchoprazb]

oh sorry i missed these updates,really great,you r going very definite man.looking for the complete model.:tu:

[gegrazion_1]

Finally got round to posted some more work. ive redone all the muscles and changed his whole physic. i tried to make him look more weighted and alot more thinner because he was looking way to bulky considering hes a 2 foot minion. ive worked his thighs to make it look more fleshy and weighted and im gonig to start on the rest of his body now, his spine looks a little bland, im not sure what to do to give it that cool factor. well hope you like it and any crits and sujestions are all fine im not sensitive about my work :) btw ive removed his arm and leg to lesson the polycount.

M_Front1.jpg

M_front.jpg

M_side.jpg

M_bk.jpg

M_stomach.jpg

[Threefingered]

Looking sweet... I love the detail that you've got going on in the stomach...reminds me of something Giger-ish. I had almost forgotten how sweet your main characteris until I browsed back through your thread. Keep it up!

[gegrazion_1]

well here is a rather large update, ive finished my high poly now, i will overlay extra detials like skin break up and things but that will happen near the end. ive had a few problems with the extraction of normal maps, most of the ares come out fine, but the the throat and the head have alot of problems with them and im not sure how to fix this, ive never made a low poly character before so if any1 has a qiuck fix im all ears :) hope you like it

M_H_front.jpg

M_H_side.jpg

M_H_bk.jpg

M_L_1.jpg

M_L_2.jpg

M_J_NM.jpg

[qsort]

if you are making normals with zmapper try this: next to normal&cavity maps tab is projection tab click that tab and then you'll see option to set the raytracing max scan distance - increase that value. That happens because when you are projecting rays from low poly to high poly mesh the rays die out before they reach high poly mesh and those details (or your low poly isn't close/doesn't match enough to high poly mesh). I hope that helps .

looking good btw ;p

[gegrazion_1]

thanks alot :) wel ive been playing with zmapper and xnormal, the test was doen in xnomral and i relaised why, my edge patting was set 2 high since all the teeth are so close together it was overlappnig on each other. im just optimising the uvs now :) so should have some nice crisp details soon :) updates shortly.

[gegrazion_1]

im in desperate need of advice, ive made my high poly, low poly, im usign xnormal and zmapper to get the normal maps from (testing both to see whats better) but the uv seams are shwoing up, some are subtle but i shoudnt have any and was wondering why and how to rectify this? cheers :)

[gegrazion_1]

well im having mass problems, im getting alot of seams in my model and i have no idea how to sort this out. im using zmapper because im getin much better results than in xnormal. this is just a test Normal map and i no some parts are overlapping but i jsut wanted to throw one up to see whats the main problems. i just dont understand how everyones model i see seems to have noooo seams or close to invisible. i did anoher test NM but instead of breaking it into peices i did a full body and the seems worked much better but im getin other problems. i no alot of people break there model up to get greater resoluion and stil dont get seams like this. it also seems like Normal maps are temperamental with seams, why aint i geting them all the way round all parts, im geting some really nice seams and some ugly ones,please help :(

NM_test1.jpg

NM_seam_front.jpg

NM_seam_bk.jpg

NM_seamgone.jpg

[slocik]

Normal maps will always give you some kind of seams , get used to it ;D
But in this case meybe its the smoothing groups ?

[abe_Tamazir]

hey gegrazion_1!
can you post screenshots of your setting in zmapper, screengrab of you Groups in ZBrush and shaded wireframe view in maya using options allowing you to see soft edges from hard edges?
to get good normals, all of these above have an effect on the quality of your normalmap...also, check your uvs,try with different seem placement. Unfloading and rotating them to teh right angle also is important!

[gegrazion_1]

Well my smothing groups are fine, ive messed around with alot of settings in zmapper and im geting some good and bad results. i no you always get seams bt mine are far more prominent than alot of models ive seen. any sujestions plzzzzz :)

[abe_Tamazir]

well, it would be easier to give suggestion if i could see your settings, thus the message above ;)
otherwise, i'd just give you the same suggestion as everyone could give "play with the setting, your uvs etc..."
The other option would be to share your tool with the comunity so the most experienced in that matter could come up with a solution for you, although it might be something you are not willing to do...(which is understandable ;) )
from what you provide, there is not much i personnaly can add to what already was suggested sorry :(

[gegrazion_1]

hey swi didnt see ur original mesage, how would i give my model away? i dont no how to do that lol is it always this dificult with all models? or am i realy that much of a noob. thanks alot :)

[slocik]

you can upload .zip files as normal pictures on zbrushcentral. Just pack your low poly, and a mid poly version of your model using winrar, and upload it, i will also take a look ;D

[abe_Tamazir]

you've got many ways to do that, buti'd suggest you try first to post those extra pics...ive got some settings i use that work for specific stuff i work on (jackets, faces etc...) they all require some tweaks from maya (like soft / hard teh edgesor keep them all soft etc...) and might have been of help to you
sometimes you have no choice but rework the uvs (esdpecially for a full budy normal like yours, there are no part that could hide those seems (armor etc...)...?
And yeah, it's not just you, there are long threads about the same problem! and i still have this issue, even after all those years lol
Sometime it works straight away, most of the time you need sweat and tears lol

as a start try this settings:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AH9EG5U8 (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/attachment.php?attachmentid=&stc=1)

anyway, good luck with this man!

[gegrazion_1]

slocik: thanks, what im going to do is spend the rest of the day playing around, if i cant figure it out i gues last resort is sned my model of to the pros :D

abe_Tamazir: thnkas alot your interest realy makes me want to figure this out. btw your lin kdidnt work :( if i aplly a diffuse map and etc will that help disguise my seams? ill upload some more pics soon just guna try a another method out first. thanks again :)

[slocik]

im suprised you bother so much with the seams ;D just hide them with dark texture and little spec opn the specmap ;] or make them in a place where there is a lot going on, ppl will be more busy with looking at the whole concept and color shame than on a little parts like seams.

[gegrazion_1]

haha yh i gues i could do that but tbh im a perfectionist and id rather learn from my mistakes because not everymodel will be dark so need to find out asap how to solve this problem if i cum by it agian thne ill no what to do :) ill spend 2 weeks solving this problem if i have to haha i dont like giving up espec after cumin so far.

[abe_Tamazir]

for the link, it seems that just cliking on it wont do! you have to copy / past it onto a new page..
if this one dont work, we can try one with poly group (translated with soft hard edges in maya)
i think it will work withmost of it thogh (teethsmight defo need some grouping i recon)

[gegrazion_1]

im not sure what you mean with grouping?

[K-tonne]

normal maps don't work well when you've mapped and modelled half a mesh and mirrored it to the other side
it's certainly what's causing the vertical seam down the middle of the model in the render
the other artifacts are the overlaps in the uv's i guess

[gegrazion_1]

well only a few parts are overlapping, and it was just a quick normal map test, ive finaly figured the problem out now anyways :) all i realy gota worry bout is the centre line seam.