Art Theft Spotted

[SpookeeP]

I noticed a few exemplary works from the forums here posted at a "wallpaper" site.

Here's (http://sciphone.net/displayimage.php?album=16&pos=6)the first one that jumped out at me...

[nebular]

I belive that almost every wallpaper out there is volating someones copyrights.
Unless the don't sell them I think there's nothing wrong. But oryginal author should be credited.

[markkens]

What part of "Copyright" do you not understand? The author CONTROLS (the "right" part) the USE (the "copy" part) of the created art. Duplicates cannot be made, distributed or sold without the author's permission.

Federal (and probably international) law states the author's copyright comes into existence immediately after the work is created. No filing forms or making calls.

If this site somehow got permissions from the artists, all's cool. Somehow I doubt that given the huge banner ad for Napster there. :rolleyes:

[testure]

Somehow I doubt that given the huge banner ad for Napster there. :rolleyes:FYI- napster is a legitimate business, it's owned by Best Buy.. works like itunes, you pay per track. You make it sound like it's still the music piracy tool from the late 90's.

An as for your other point- copyright of this nature is actually a very blurry grey area right now, so there's a lot that is not 'understood'. For example- you state that duplicates can not be made, but anytime someone views the image it is cached by the browser. This is a duplicate, and it throws the argument into question.

If the original authors of the images contacted the site and asked them to pull it (yet they still keep it up), I'm sure there would be a problem then... Although something tells me that the artists in question would gladly have their work displayed on as many sites as possible, so long as they remain credited...

I'm not disagreeing that the site shouldn't be distributing all of these works, I'm just saying that copyrights are not as obvious as you're claiming.

[markkens]

The Orphaned Works Act was too vague when it came to defining how "diligent" an effort is required to locate a copyright owner before a work is infringed upon. That's one of the reasons why it died last year in Congress.

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act already covers all those short-term temporary copies networks and browsers make...and a hell of a lot more.

The original web site SpookeeP pointed to seems to care a lot about the issue:

http://sciphone.net/Owners

I'm not trying to play lawyer, just agreeing with the original posts.

[Jamez]

Regardless if it's for profit or not, if someone distributes another's creative work in any fashion without documented permission, they are in the wrong. Any way you cut it, it's copyright infringement. Even if seems like no big deal to some, it's illegal and immoral.

[lemonnado]

It's all so simple....

IF IT IS NOT YOURS DON'T TOUCH IT AND DON'T MESS WITH IT.

Lemo

[splodge]

It's all so simple....

IF IT IS NOT YOURS DON'T TOUCH IT AND DON'T MESS WITH IT.

Lemo
and where's your fancy ideology when you bite into a burger with dead cow on it?. That cow's ass isn't yours, so don't mess with it!

Seriously though - there's sharks out there and they're hungry.. Be careful folks!

(c) Splodge

[spaceboy412]

this is just the way the internet and the world is. one solution is to not put your work out there, do it for yourself, otherwise just accept the fact that people somewhere will abuse it.

[skullbeast]

You gotta' put you mark on your work or it's your own fault. Then at the very least it holds up in court. :mad: :idea:

[skullbeast]

It's not the kids I would be worried about. And It's not even a worry. It's more like being rude and deceptive. I could care less myself. After this orphan law gets passed, thats when all art will be free... I cant wait. :td:

[womball]

What exactly does the orphan law do. I heard about it in cgtalk.

[skullbeast]

Orphan law (http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/1537)



Orphan law 2 (http://www.sellyourtvconceptnow.com/orphan.html)

[SalmonGod]

have to agree with miztli here... intellectual property law in general is retarded and heavily favors big business while hindering progress, creativity, community, and the true nature of art

that's not to say that we should be completely ignorant of these laws, or that it's acceptable to make money from somebody else's work and such... if I'm trying to make a living as an artist, and somebody else abuses my work and endangers my livelihood, then I'm forced to defend myself legally...

unfortunately we live in a highly competitive capitalistic wasteland which threatens us with poverty through brute force if we decide to be generous with something which should by every logical and human notion be shared as freely as possible....

see Thomas Jefferson quote below, and tell me what is art but expression of an idea?... I think the often forgotten purpose at the very core of artistic nature is simply striving to understand one another...

we just have to be as nice as society will allow us to be... which means if there's no harm done, there's no need to do harm

"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property. Society may give an exclusive right to the profits arising from them, as an encouragement to men to pursue ideas which may produce utility, but this may or may not be done, according to the will and convenience of the society, without claim or complaint from any body. Accordingly, it is a fact, as far as I am informed, that England was, until we copied her, the only country on earth which ever, by a general law, gave a legal right to the exclusive use of an idea. In some other countries it is sometimes done, in a great case, and by a special and personal act, but, generally speaking, other nations have thought that these monopolies produce more embarrassment than advantage to society; and it may be observed that the nations which refuse monopolies of invention, are as fruitful as England in new and useful devices."

- Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Isaac McPherson, August 13, 1813

[bicc39]

You have an idea for an image whether for school, demo
reel, or you are a "working artist".
Many hours are spent with the modelling, texturing, etc.
Frustrating time to get it the way you want it.
The software was paid for by you, you bought the books,
listened to the tutorials, spent the time to acquire the
knowledge to produce your work.
One day,it is finished, you submit the work to a forum like
this for discussion, critiques, etc.
A few days later, you go to another site and there is the work
submitted by another artist with responses like "love the image".

I will pause here.

Put yourself in this position.

Come back and tell me that it is ok,no sweat, it happens,
no big deal, what the hell, that's life.
Really?

I basically do/did photography.
Three times works by me and one by my better half
were pirated.
In my girl's case,she took a photo, sent it to her
cousin in Spain. Was used as a calendar photo with no
credit. This is the only one we didn't bitch about.
Our fault.

To quote an old philosopher:

It's all so simple....

IF IT IS NOT YOURS DON'T TOUCH IT AND DON'T MESS WITH IT.


Lemo January 1846

[splodge]

To quote an old philosopher:

It's all so simple....

IF IT IS NOT YOURS DON'T TOUCH IT AND DON'T MESS WITH IT.



Try telling that to the shark that's about to eat your ass for lunch.

[bicc39]

Try telling that to the shark that's about to eat your ass for lunch.

if the shark is cute he can kiss my ass for breakfast.

[Jamez]

The easy solution to the Orphan Works Law is to actually copyright your works. You can copyright everything you've ever done as a collection for $45. Then it's documented, and if someone rips you off, you have every right to legally pursue damages. You can't add to a collection afterwards, and have to copyright new pieces or collections at that same price, though. Take note that you cannot sue someone without actual documentation from the copyright office in Washington, you can only stop them from using your work. WWW.USPTO.GOV

If any of you think the countless years of an artist's focus, dedication, and serious financial investment towards the skill it takes to make quality art are worthless, then you obviously aren't getting paid to do art dummy! I'm a full time custom artist with a decent salary in a screwed up economy, and in Kentucky at that! (and no, I haven't posted to my site in two years, don't like to put client's work on the web)

Why would I want to give my work away when profiting from it is how I survive? That's how I eat, pay bills, and buy computer crap! That's how you should too if you know what's best for you! NEVER give your work away unless it's for sentimental reasons. Even if it's not marketable, keep it for your personal portfolio. Have a little business sense - market AND protect yourself as a creative commodity. The entire business world is based on creativity, artists don't have to starve anymore! Especially not digital artists!

If you've never been paid for your work, then I can see why you would think it's worthless... Stop thinking we live in a world where you aren't supposed to profit from your hard work. That's what makes the sacrifice worth it.

If you have that sweet combination of natural and hard earned talent, and you've been investing your time and money, then you should find a way to be compensated for it. If anyone tries to take that from you, rip them a new .....:mad:

[SalmonGod]

taking credit for work that isn't yours is extremely rude and rightly infuriating, but worthy of wrath?... rarely... what has he taken but respect which should have been offered to you?

and then when money gets involved, such as somebody using your work to make money which should have been yours... I can understand taking action... that's defense of your own livelihood

just think... it wouldn't bother you if we didn't live in a society which expects us to sell ourselves every day of our lives in order to be granted the right to live... money is an abstract object with no meaning beyond human fabrication... remove this absurd factor from the equation, and art would go back to what it was through most of human history... an intangible, but powerful tool for enriching culture and human lives, building communities, and promoting understanding and wisdom between people... something which most cultures understood as gaining infinitely in value with every passing on... a resource limited only by people's interest in sharing... concepts completely lost to the modern world of unnecessary forced competition, where even thoughts are made into commodities which benefit only those who can afford them

[spaceboy412]

how about who cares? the earth, our solar system, galaxy and all the precious art won't even exist one day.

[SalmonGod]

all the more reason not to waste our time?

[bicc39]

Mr. Jamez:
If you've never been paid for your work, then I can see why you would think it's worthless... Stop thinking we live in a world where you aren't supposed to profit from your hard work. That's what makes the sacrifice worth it.:tu: :tu: :tu:

Even taking money out of the equation, to see something you made exhibited
with the name of another is extremely disconcerting.

I would venture a guess to say that those with the attitude of it doesn't matter, have never had the situation happen to them.

It is truly a feeling of violation, especially in a community such as this where
young people just starting out are seeking the advise and feedback of others.

Should the advice and feedback they get consist of don't post your work?

An argument can be made that having their work stolen is a valuable lesson
to be learned.
That unless you are willing to spend money and effort to protect it, it should
not leave the confines of you environment.
The Top Row would truly be naked.

Many of the artists here need a source of feedback of what they make.

This type of activity is basically the work of one individual, working alone, sometimes without any input whatsoever.

To post your work , seeking advice and help, only to see it stolen, is
at the very least discouraging and immoral.

Must add, that to see arguments that this type of theft is in any way
shape or form ok, is, itself, uncomfortable.

Fortunately whenever this type of argument has come up in the past,
there is a sense of moral outrage that bring some feelings of hope.

what was the question again?:)

[Jamez]

...and then when money gets involved...People always act like money is so evil. Money is what makes people get off their ass. Otherwise, we'd all happily waste the day away and the world's productivity would come to a screeching halt. By nature, people need the incentive to build the world around them, and it's a GOOD thing the incentive exists. Otherwise, we'd be in the freakin' stone age technology wise, and we'd all be sculpting mud! Do you really think the world would be better if no one had to work? Hell no, look around you. Imagine if NO ONE had to work for survival....

What's so bad about a career in what you love? To have one, you CAN'T give your work away! If I didn't profit from and protect the work I do for myself and others, and just gave it all away, I'd be out of the damn job and on the street! Or at some crap job I hate! Making money doing what you love is a very rewarding and positive thing.:tu:

[splodge]

People always act like money is so evil. Money is what makes people get off their ass. Otherwise, we'd all happily waste the day away and the world's productivity would come to a screeching halt. By nature, people need the incentive to build the world around them, and it's a GOOD thing the incentive exists. Otherwise, we'd be in the freakin' stone age technology wise, and we'd all be sculpting mud! Do you really think the world would be better if no one had to work? Hell no, look around you. Imagine if NO ONE had to work for survival....


People will always create and invent regardless of money, it's human nature. But money can be bad in that it encourages us to spend time creating superficial things that we know pay well (entertainment industry), rather than creating things that improve the quality of life in a more meaningful way. So money can actually hinder progress.

[Jamez]

People will always create and invent regardless of money, it's human nature.I definitely agree, all artist start out as hobbyists that don't get paid to do it. Yet a career in art, while not completely free, is relatively incredible.

I've spent years slaving in dirty restaurants and factories all while investing my time and money on the side. It was absolute hell. Now, I get to hang out in a comfy office with a top notch digital art studio! There are tight deadlines and I don't always get to create the art I would normally make on my own. Yet in everything I do, I have creative liberty, and it is golden. Several hours of the week are spent illustrating whatever I can dream, which is rare and lucky.

Not every artist can adjust their creative freedom to make themselves marketable, and that's ok. However, the more you work on anything the sharper you get, and you can apply that refined skill to your own works.

[SalmonGod]

if the concept of money vanished tomorrow, yes... people would get really lazy for a while... we've all been raised in a society which forces us to work under threat of starvation... where failure to sell our labor to someone wealthier than ourselves results in complete forced severance from the obscene surpluses of food and shelter and luxury we create in the modern world... bitter resentment towards any activity is only natural when violently forced to do it

I would probably wake up and go "oh my god I'm not being brute forcefully coerced into some BS job that doesn't benefit anybody... I'm going to enjoy it for a little while"

but it wouldn't take long for people to snap out of it and think "crap I need to eat... my house is falling apart... I miss all the stuff I used to have... I can be lazy and lay around and rot or I can help to bring back all the cool stuff we used to produce"

and that would be the end of that... and the real striking difference is people in this situation would do things they care about... which means people like me wouldn't be trapped doing stupid crap that waste's everybody's time (customs brokerage analyst)... and there wouldn't be any BS politics hindering progress over economical issues...

perhaps capital did something to dig us out of the dark ages... I don't really believe it, but I don't have the knowledge to argue it... but I can tell you that in the modern world just about every industry is actually held back by the profit motive

do you know why we don't have clean, renewable energy yet?... it's been demonstrated over and over again that all of the technology is there... wind, geothermal, and solar power are absolutely practical today... the problem is nobody's figured out how to charge people for wind and sun!!

how about everything on your computer... let's not even touch art there... just software... can you imagine how much power mankind as a whole would gain and how much more progress we could create if all the software of the world was available to everybody?... and there's no technical reason it shouldn't be that way

how about entertainment... file sharing... you know what the war on file sharing was really about?... it wasn't about the profits lost from people not buying music or movies... it's because professional industries are afraid of amateur content, and they want to strangle amateur distribution channels... there is tons of evidence to this effect, and it's a clear-cut case of money preventing people from producing!

how about planned obsolescence?... without money, there is no way in hell people would actually do more work just to make sure an item breaks within a set period of time...

I'm sure you get the point

[Jamez]

Good points for sure. This debate could probably go on for eternity!

Think about the millions, probably billions of god awful crap jobs out there that make everything happen though! Who in the hell would do them willingly without an incentive as powerful as survival? For the world to evolve and remain productive, that crap has to get done. Until robotics can be implemented into each and every single crap job that has to happen, people are stuck bearing the burden. Money is that incentive, but it's also the incentive to become more creative. Ironically, that could actually happen over time. Hell, computers were JUST invented, and look at how powerful they already are!

Since that will still not happen in our lifetime, it's very rewarding to find a way amongst this madness to use art to make a living.

[SalmonGod]

survival will always be an incentive, we don't need money to enforce that one :P

but yes... cheers to making a living doing something you love... I have yet to make an penny off of art, but the day I do will be one of the happiest days of my life... and by god I'm going to get there

[skullbeast]

I would have to tattoo for food if money was gone. .......and to steal that one you'll need a knife. :lol:

[Jamez]

:eek: uch!

[Jamez]

I have yet to make an penny off of art, but the day I do will be one of the happiest days of my life... and by god I'm going to get there
The more you work and put yourself out there, the greater your odds of getting lucky as hell :tu: