A very quick & high quality alternative to Displacement & Normal Maps (by Rastaman) [Archive]

Rastaman

05-31-08, 12:27 PM

Hi everybody,

time for something new, or better I think it's something new:

A very quick & high quality alternative to displacement & Normal Maps

We all know the usual displacement maps like this one (taken from my model here:
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?p=456996#post456996 ):

Kopf_Dispmap_Klassisch.jpg

But has anyone ever produced this kind of map in ZBrush?

Kopf_Specialmap.jpg

:eek:

I first thougt this was trash, but wait a second:

This baby contains all my even finest modelling-informations as grayscale-map.
But it is definetely not a usual Dispmap, so I called it simply my 'Specialmap'.

But what is so special about it ?
Well, you can use this little gimmick in several tricky ways.

First, this is an extremely high-quality bumpmap that contains all real modeled details.
So from now on I can do any high-detailed models completely as a sculpt, no more need to create additional bump-maps with projection master.

But what is that good for, Normal-maps are pretty the same as bump-maps and can easily be created out of usual Dispmaps. :rolleyes:

Yes, that's right, but look closer to the quality of this Spezial-Map. ;)
This one is by far better than any Normal-map I have ever created.
And especially for VrayforC4d-users like me, Normal-maps do currently not work in VrayforC4d, so this way is definetely the only and best way for me.

The original ZBrush-model:

Old_man_ZBrush.jpg

And the render in Vray using the Special-Map as a Bumpmap on a subd-level-4-mesh:

Old_man_Vray.jpg

The quality is quite the same as with displacement, I would even say slightly better, and by far better than usual Normal-Maps.
And look at the render-time.

And best of all, that's not the only thing you can do with this type of map.

I tried to use it as specular-map and a base for color-maps, the first results look promising.

All in all, this kind of Gray-map has enormous potential and is at least for me not only a new, but also a very quick and high-quality alternative to displacement and especially to usual Normal-maps.

When I have finished my actual project of 'The thinking old man' ( http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?p=456996#post456996 ), where I will use this kind of map for the first time, I can post the step-by-step of how to create this map-type in Zbrush, if someone is interested in it.

rimasson

05-31-08, 01:27 PM

yes, a step by step is WELCOME. !!

Layer01

06-01-08, 03:33 AM

yeah i would be interested too :D
New info is always welcome ;)

Phrost

06-01-08, 06:18 AM

that vray render is awesome, i am very interested about this, nice one :tu:

hal8999

06-01-08, 11:52 AM

INTERESTED?? What? SURE we are... !!!

Please, teach us you knowledge, please.

Thanks, Mattia.

Rastaman

06-01-08, 12:46 PM

All right, as I already said, I will post the way to create this when I have finished my actual sculpt & render-project.

Btw. I'm not quite sure, but I think the result of this map might be simply a bug inside ZB3.1.
So I already wrote to the Pixo-Devellopers, that they please leave this feature untouched in upcomming upgrades, i.e. that they don't fix this possible bug.
Let's keep fingers crossed that they will not delete this in the next upgrade.:confused:

rimasson

06-02-08, 03:52 AM

did you use the Subdiv level 1 of your model instead of the cage to generate your displacement map ?

pineappleman

06-02-08, 06:48 AM

I'm sure I produced a texture map like that once... damn I can't remember how I did it, but it was in ZB2...

Looking forward to the step by step ;)

Revanto

06-05-08, 02:51 AM

I'm definitely interested in knowing how you did this. So far, all the disp maps I get from Zbrush are often very washed out so it would be a big plus is you shared your technique with us. Maybe you could make a Youtube vid about it?

Cheers,
Revanto :p

Lumin8

06-05-08, 06:01 AM

Interesting....

and bravo for your efforts, man. You helped me get through alot when 3.0 came out. :tu:

Hey, if you make a youtube step by step could you please make a written one for all of us poor in the ghetto dialup users? ;) I don't need to see it to believe it.

don_tomaso

06-10-08, 02:35 PM

Just wanted to say that this indeed looks very, very interesting and I´ll be looking forward to your demonstration.. Added this thread to my favorites :)

Rastaman

06-19-08, 01:12 PM

Although I first wanted to finish my current work with using this obviously new type of gray-map, I post the way of how to archieve it now, before my work is finished, because I still work on perfecting the skin-shader and that will need some more time.

In the meantime, I have a feedback of the Pixologic-team that it seems that even the ZBrush-devellopers didn't know so far that this gray-map-type can be created with ZBrush.

Whatever, here is the way to it:
(The text is taken from my original email to the Pixologic-team about this issue)

Normally I produce my Displacement-maps in another way than Aurick posted some time ago. Anyhow, a few days ago I tried it the way Aurick wrote, but made a slight variation. Instead of placing a Morph-target at Subd-level 1 before dividing and sculpting, I had first finished my model, stored the Morph-target at the highest subd-level, deleted it again, went to subd-level 1 and stored a new morph-targed. Then I pressed the Switch-Button (it also seems to work without that ) of the Morph-Target-Menue and created my dispmap via the Tool-Displacement-menue.
But I was surprised because what came out was not the usual Dispmap, but another kind of gray-map with all my even finest modelled details.

I didn't had the time time to try other ways , maybe it also works without first storing and deleting the morph-target at the highest sub-d-level, so try for yourself what leads to results.
In case someone is unclear about what I wrote above about Aurick's description to archieve disp-maps, here is the step-by-step again:

1) Create all the subd-levels and model all the details, even the finest ones.

2) Store a morph-target at the highest subd-level.
I switch then to subd-level 1, then back again to the highest subd-level and

3) Delete the morph-target again.

4) Go back to subd-level 1 and store a new morph-target there.

5) Press the Switch-Button in the morph-target-menue (optional, it seems to work without that as well)

6) Go to the Tool->Displacement-menue, set the desired map-size, press 'Smooth' and 'Adaptive' and hit the 'Create Dispmap'-Button.

Now you need some patience, Zbrush needs on complex meshes a lot of time to create the gray-map, mostly up to 40-60 minutes in my cases.

You will find it in the Alpha-menue, flip it vertically and store it as Psp-File, then you will need Photoshop to perform an autokontrast-procedure.

Voilà.

Here is a graymap of an arm:

Arm_Spezialmap.jpg

The usage of this map-type is open for anything.
I use it currently as an extreme-high-quality-bumpmap, better than anything I have ever used before, as a base for Colormaps, Specularmaps, etc.

Enjoy,

Ralf

yvan_c

06-19-08, 11:34 PM

Hey Rastaman,

Thanks for this man! I thought you said it was easy;) I for one would not have guessed it in a million years.

Will definitely try your approach. Up until now my displ maps rather sucked...

Thanks again for posting it sooner rather than later. Good luck with your project (whatever it is). Cannot wait to see what you've been up to.

Yvan.

Jαke

06-20-08, 08:10 AM

Thanks so much. I just tried it out and it's exactly what I have been looking for! :tu:

DivideandRender

06-21-08, 09:11 AM

Thanks for what you have done, it looks interesting and usefull if I can get it to work. :D
I cant get zbrush to generate a displacement map at all, (just gray tex sheet). what setting do you use for intensity and mid for displacement? mode button on or off?

Also I foundout something interesting too. hope you dont mind if i share. turn tangent space normals into standard bump, i think.
1. If you take a tengent space normal map in to photoshop
2. grayscale it
3. invert it.
then you get something like what you have done. not as good but it is interesting.

Lumin8

06-23-08, 04:36 AM

Nice how you've found hidden features that even pixologic wasn't aware of. :lol: :tu: Thank you very much! Heading off to try it out.

HaloAnimator

06-29-08, 12:50 PM

Hey Rastaman, this is some cool ****...and the details are exquisite especially in the crevices of the models... also the relief is very well shown... All hail the "Special Map"

Phrost

07-11-08, 03:17 AM

could i please have some help with this? i keep getting the usual displacement map and no grap/special map.. i have done wat rasta said (i'm pretty sure..) with the morph target stuff but no luck :(

Rastaman

07-11-08, 03:37 AM

Hmm, Phrost, on my system this works well and always produces the grayscale-map, and it works both in 32 and 64 bit installations of ZB 3.1.

Check the steps again and of coarse be sure to use the actual ZB-version 3.1.

Else, repeat the store / delete morph-target step twice at your highest subd-level before you go to subd-level 1 and store the final morph-target there. Maybe you had a previously stored morph-target from subd-level 1 that ZBush revers to when it comes to calculate the map.

Check the steps again, it should work.
Or has anyone else also problems with it ?

One correction: The file-format to store the map is of coarse PSD. not PSP.;)

Lumin8

07-11-08, 10:59 PM

Finally got to try this a couple of days ago. Works great. Thanks again!

Phrost

07-12-08, 01:02 AM

I'm sorry rasta i just can't get it to work.. the steps seem so simple and if i explained wat i am doing it would be the same as wat you have said.. i know im doing something stupid.. if it is possible would u be able to post a video tutorial for this.. lol :( i would appreciate it a lot.. sorry man :cry:

cannedmushrooms

07-12-08, 03:16 AM

We played around with this a little earlier this year.
Heres the key settings for displacement exporter to produce that map.
Click here for post (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showpost.php?p=437931&postcount=7)

Which is called (has 3 names that shifts allot)

Bump Map
Height Map
Parallax Map

Bump map usually stems from 50% grey to white
the other two maps
black to white ( allowing deeper change in geometry)

(http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showpost.php?p=437931&postcount=7)

Layer01

07-12-08, 04:22 AM

Hmm, Phrost, on my system this works well and always produces the grayscale-map, and it works both in 32 and 64 bit installations of ZB 3.1.
sorry this is OT, but i thought there was only one install type of ZB that was 32bit?
Mine is installed in the program files(x86) at least.

Can you elaborate on what you meant, I'd love to be proven wrong :lol:

Martin Mittelmann

07-12-08, 12:52 PM

Ups I hope that Rasta hinted that a 64 bit version is upon us soon :) fingers crossed

Rastaman

07-14-08, 01:20 PM

CannedMushrooms:Looks quite similliar, I will check your way soon to compare both results.
With my way, I don't use the DE, instead I simply export the created map via the Alpha -> Export-button.

Concerning the 64 bit-confusion:
I meant, that I have installed ZB 3.1 twice on my dual-boot system, one in 32, one in 64 bit XP.;)

3dmaya

07-16-08, 08:51 AM

Thanks man,really this is very uesfull to us , thanks again

zaheer07

07-25-08, 12:59 AM

nice :tu:

jinchoung

08-25-08, 04:06 PM

aside from the procedure to do this and the "special map" name, does anyone know WHAT EXACTLY IT IS?

it just looks like a difference map that just has ALL the displacement detail from broad sculpting differences (from the smooth subdivision of the base cage to final surface) to fine high freq detail...

this isn't what's generated normally with a displacement map if you actually sculpt all that detail in?

shouldn't it be?

jin

Lumin8

08-25-08, 08:23 PM

Still find this very useful, whatever you want to call it or whatever it is. lolz. Thanks again. Though, I'm curious now how it all holds up during animation. Anyone gone that far with it yet? Will have to 'speriment I suppose.

capu

08-28-08, 02:53 PM

interesting, but can you use it on hte lowest level 1 too ?

and you will get the same result like you would get with a displacment map ?

I made some tests previously, and I figured out that usingthe displacment map and vray works fine. Since today, I couldn't find a clean way to use the displacment map 100% accurate with mental ray....

maybe this map gives hope, but like I said, did you run a test on the lowest level of the mesh you have exported ?

dont' get me wrong, but your test was made with the mesh on level 4, right ?

so I bet you already had more than 500.000 polys....

thxnk you,
capu

Rastaman

09-08-08, 02:04 PM

That's right, Capu.

As I use it as a bump-map it is clear that you need a base-mesh with enough basic details, otherwise the bump-calculation of most apps cannot produce good enough results. And also, bump-mapping does not make a real deformation of the mesh like the displacement-feature.;)
But I think it's a very fast alternative to displacement, for stills as well as it should work with animations (there is no reason why it shouldn't work also with animations), and it is by far faster than displacement and gives very good results. And these results are also by far better than anything I could produce with usual normalmapping.

capu

09-09-08, 04:41 AM

well, I think the result is really nice on a high res mesh.

My only concern is if you really can use it for animation... well, why ?

have you ever tried to rig and skin a 400.000 poly character ?

well, not really completly sure abotu that, but I can imagine it could be a pain...

but don't get me wrong, I agree and think the result is great, but I guess its just for stills and it will be hard to use it for animation....

Jester

09-12-08, 02:27 AM

Actually I have always produced this type of map out of Zbrush...

As Jin told, it is basically the total differences of your base mesh, and your highest mesh. If you store your imported mesh as a morphtarget BEFORE doing any sculpt, or press the CAGE button on the lowest level before map calculation you recieve that type of map (and of course if there is enough differences between the lowest and highest levels). You should also take care the map settings, for example I'm pretty sure that if the ranges are set different values, you could get more out of the maps. Alas, these are not well documented, or at least I am not aware of any detailed documentation.

FryerTuck

11-25-08, 06:21 AM

Hi all. I was reading this thread with great interest and thought I would give the technique a go. It Worked fine but..: because of the process of adiing and deleting the morph targets the original safety morph I create before subdividing when I first bring in my mesh is cancelled out and the base model is smoothed or slightly resized when I export the mesh (I use mostly Zbrush UV's to save time). So... to counteract this, I create a deformation map for deforming the base mesh and use this to counteract the change in size - or to put it more simply, use the deformation map in place of the morph target. Alhough this works OK.., I was wondering if there was a less elongated approach or something I am missing in zBrush that could sort this.

What youse think?

Thanks all.

Asgard666

01-02-09, 07:45 AM

nice,

I´ll try this but do you use this map as a Disp.map ?

Rastaman

01-02-09, 12:05 PM

No, it's useless as a Dispmap.

The goal is, that you can use it as an excellent bump-map, by far better than any bump-map ZBrush normally creates and better than any Normal-map that you can create by any way. ;)

Asgard666

01-03-09, 03:17 AM

ah you mean... a supermap? ;D

Morph Division

01-14-09, 03:36 PM

to "bring out" the details of your map (disp or bump, but usually disp) you need to tweak their curves in photoshop.

The "special" that you are seeing is a normal disp map but the tonal range in the black is actually closer to black and the same goes for the white.

Unless you need to use 32bit disp maps, 16bit is effective and production friendly. If you tweak the tonal range then you will get all your details in your render. (I use RM and MR in Maya and the results are great).

ZB spits out disp maps with a very compressed tonal range, however all the details are there.

IMO the actual need for 32bit disp goes beyond most production environments and personal projects, with regard to quality and expense/time.
If you can't make a 16bit map look good then you got no chance with 32bit.

The difference in tonal variations between 16bit and 32bit are as follows

8bit= 256 (0 to 255)
16bit= 65,536 (0 to 65,535)
32bit= 4,294,967,296 (0 to 4,294,967,295)

Tip (maya): Split your maps into two, course/big details and fine/small details then combine them through your shading network to a "disp node" via a "plus minus average" node. Set the operation to "sum"
And of course tweak the maps curves in PS.
To acheive two maps in ZB use layers and morph targets.

BTW use tga or tiff, forget map files your renderer will convert them automatically at render time.
The difference in time is next to nothing, especially since you've taken the time to tune your maps prior to rendering,
therefore not needing to boost your approximation settings desperately trying to see the details.

cheers:D

florencepapillon

03-23-09, 03:54 PM

I'm very interested in this tecnique. I have Zbrush 3.12 but the problem is that in order to create a displacement map, I must select a UV type (well, usually AUV tiles), and the result is just a block of displaced tiles ...

So I suppose this method works fine only if you have previously built a UV map in another 3D application ?

J-L_A

06-26-09, 10:07 AM

Thank you very much! :D

Rastaman

06-28-09, 12:04 PM

florencepapillon:

Yes,the UV-map was created with RoadKill.
But it should also work with AUV-Tiles from ZBrush.

Mezmerrizer

07-30-09, 01:57 AM

Many Thanks to you Rastaman for sharing this knowledge with us, im working on different ways of rendering ZBrush Models in VrayForC4D, and your way seems to be the most promising.
But I cant get it to work.
You mentioned, that you where working with Auricks way of creating a displacement map. I searched for it, but couldnt find the thread.
If someone could tell me where to find Auricks way, maybe i can finally get your special-map to work.

sorry for double post, i didnt know that this forum needs some hours to show new posts, so i thought there was some error or something, so I posted again.

Mezmerrizer

08-11-09, 06:38 AM

whats up here? is the forum down or the thread closed or what?

Rastaman

08-12-09, 03:05 AM

Hi Mezmerrizer, your very first post was maybe checked by the moderator, usually all posts are shown up in realtime.
Welcome in the forum.

To your question:
Please read my step-by-step carefully again, it should also work with you if you use ZB 3.1 (PC-Version).
Aurick simply describes to set the morph-tag at subd-level 1 before initiating the disp-map-creation-process, that's all.
Try again with my advices, you should get results.

qifafiq88

08-20-09, 07:50 AM

can i hav this tutorial??i need step by step...pls

Rastaman

09-01-09, 08:04 AM

Look at site 1, post 12 ;)

Rastaman

10-05-09, 02:22 PM

Good news, the special map-procedure still works in 3.5 R2.:D

7leonn

10-06-09, 05:02 AM

I'm an average user of zBrush, and I encounter a problem when I try to export my textures : they are all messed up. I followed many tutorials, and everytime I'm at the 'displacement' step, it's the same. Am I victim of a bug, or maybe I didn't see something…
Though I'm using the create dismap standard option (adaptive, smooth…

1.jpg
2.jpg
3.jpg

Thanks for your help !

gpepper

10-06-09, 05:36 AM

Looks like bad uvs...

Support

10-06-09, 05:45 AM

esepablo

03-09-10, 11:26 AM

does this work for 3.5r3
i tried using it but couldnt figure out the steps very well

a video tutorial would be very helpful

Ghostman_

06-13-10, 08:32 AM

Don't seem to work in sr3.5 :cry:

Rastaman

06-14-10, 12:31 PM

Yes it does also work with ZB 3.5 R3.
Only don't push the 'Adaptive'-Button as R3 has a bug with this.

Ghostman_

06-14-10, 12:35 PM

Sweet! Thanks alot Rastaman for that info. :)

tristamus

07-08-10, 02:20 PM

Rastaman, this is pure and utter awesomeness...

I have made a graphic for you and everyone here on the differences and perks of using a map like this. I hope you all can benefit from this!!

If anything in the graphic is wrong, just let me know..

-Tristamus

SpecialMapGraphicTutorialSmaller.jpg

tristamus

07-08-10, 02:23 PM

Rasta, I also discovered that if you press "Smooth UV" under the displacement menu, it can mess your UV's up sometimes.

Use at your own discretion, I guess!

VinceRizzi

07-08-10, 03:30 PM

umm isn't this "special map" just a displacement map?

tristamus

07-08-10, 05:21 PM

Umm I dunno, that's not what people here are treating it as. The thread title is "ALTERNATIVE" to displacement and normal maps, so I figured it isn't a displacement or normal map. Created through the Disp Menu in Zbrush, yet, not appropriately. Almost as if it is a glitch. Pixologic didn't know what it was.

Do you?

esepablo

07-08-10, 05:37 PM

thank you for the graphic tristamus

tristamus

07-08-10, 06:37 PM

No problem man!!

Sebcesoir

07-08-10, 06:49 PM

Thats the old versions to create displacement map I think.
Not 100 sure, but it might be less assurate than the create displacement map plugin.

I dont know if the morph thing has any effect, but if you mesh change, it might accentuate a bit the volum depth...

I dont know how you generated and rendered your normalmap VS the disp, but theres no reason why you would get such a big difference...

if you use Zmapper, with the same texture size, you should get accurate and fine normalmaps...

xvampire

07-08-10, 08:02 PM

the reason having 16-bit displacement is because we can have value like that. with accurate intensity.
it might look shallow grey in photoshop, but with some correct setting in mental ray render, it should stand out without losing the quality.

try to play and save your zbrush 16 bit displacement, and put very high contrast on it, you will get same result without losing the quality ( because its a 16 bit). and you can use that for good base diffuse color map. :)

I like to combine both normal and displacement ,
because in low freq details, displacement can actually deform the geo,
but for high freq detail like pores, displacement will consume the render time,
so i set my subdiv level not so high in mental ray displacement setting just to get the model silhouette correct, and the rest of detail is pretty much normal map.

tristamus

07-08-10, 08:32 PM

Actually guys, I have been testing out this Gray "Special" map all day, seeing what I can do with it. I've been using it to actually generate a very beautiful normal map, using nvidia's filter.

The reason I like this map so much is because of all the things you can do with it, being a grayscale map...and for some reason, it retains all of my details, down to the tiniest pore even..

Using the nvidia filter, I converted it to some really fantastic normals, after tweaking a while.

Yeah you might be saying "Why not just make a normal map based on your high poly in Zbrush?" Well, I'm not sure why, but it just doesn't retain the details for me like it does in this disp / special map. I actually end up combining the normal map and this disp map and my stuff is looking phenomenal...with every tiny scratch included, without any geometry actually having to be displaced!

The thing with me, though, is that I work only within game engines....I dont use this stuff for rendering through Maya / Mental Ray / Vray etc.

Rastaman

07-11-10, 04:47 AM

When I discoverd this method (by accident), I had some conversation with the ZB-Support if this type of map was known before.
They said it wasn't and they couldn't also explain how it comes to this and why it works so good. ;)
My 'Special map' is generated with the algorhythms that normally produces Disp-maps.
But obviously, this isn't a disp-map that comes out when you follow my steps.

I described it to give all the chance to have their own experiences with this type of map.
I don't recommend it in any way as a complete replacement for normal or dispmaps.
I mainly use it along with usual dipmaps on lowpoly-models or alone with a decimated model.

You can have nice results with the special map.
Try it.

Kaixo

07-11-10, 06:32 AM

hello, i tried your method but i don't have the same result. i'am not sure to really understand the differents steps that you explained in the previous posts. When you say "switch to first level then back to the high" did you push the " switch " button in morph target area or just switch the level of subD ? you say also to delete morph target "again" but when did you delete the first time the morph target...? well any help will be greatly appreciated and sorry for my language. thanks.

esepablo

07-11-10, 03:18 PM

tristamus:
any way you could post a tutorial video for Kaixo

Kaixo

07-11-10, 10:18 PM

or a quick but accurate explain...

tristamus

07-12-10, 12:02 PM

Sure thing man...I can understand why its hard to understand the process, it's kind of goofy.

Here is a recording of the process in ZBrush, starting from the point of already having a finished and fully sculpted tool, to making and exporting the Special Map and modifying it in Photoshop to work in Maya etc etc.

In this video, I make the mistake of saying "Bring your sub-d level to 7." What I mean, is bring it to the highest level your tool currently has, sub-d wise. Also, sorry about the video quality, youtube killed it. Just listen to what I say, though, cause I say what I'm doing the entire time.

Hope you guys find this useful...

Link to youtube video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARzsHcEjQrE

Kompai!

-Tristamus

esepablo

07-12-10, 07:37 PM

many thanks for the video, im sure it will help many people

Kaixo

07-12-10, 10:15 PM

thanks a lot!! very useful video !

tristamus

07-12-10, 11:02 PM

No problem guys glad I can help

esepablo

07-14-10, 09:50 AM

another example
(exported normal,special,displacement maps and applied as bump in max, not sure if i did it right)

test.JPG (javascript:zb_insimg('203214','test.JPG',1,0))

tristamus

07-14-10, 02:30 PM

Edit:

haza.kaza

08-16-10, 07:31 PM

hi which version of zbrush did you use for those bump map settings?
can same result be done in version 3.5r3?

haza.kaza

08-16-10, 07:33 PM

StrayCat

08-26-10, 10:20 AM

Can this method of making bump maps be applied in zbrush 4.0?
And if so, what kind of displacement generation settings do you guys suggest one should use?

sadicus

10-13-10, 08:58 AM

I'm also curious about this in ZB4.

dulganieffendy

10-20-10, 11:34 AM

Amazing !!!:tu:;)
well done Rastaman...
Thanks to shear your helpfully trick....
but Is it possible work in creating Normal Map?
I've try follow your step and try make normal map in same way, but I'm not find any change for Normal Map and Texture map, only for displacement map its work...
is it possible to create special Normal and Texture Map, as your way to make Displacement map that really work ???

weimar

06-17-11, 05:29 PM

That's a greyscale texture map--from polypaint, e.g., or at least it looks like it. Oddly enough I usually just double up the TM as Bump whenever I can. You got good results, too,... definitely. Awesome , man ... thumbs up.. I always feel like I'm jerrry rigging when I get it into maya, especially when it's all pro-ish as far as maps and such... Hell, I've really never even known for sure if a bump is a cavity map or some other thing. Could look it up i guess. But, I'm a 3d noob--3 months and going--trying to make a shoestring feature film look huge, with a schizo bum giving an inaugural speech to the world--even though no one but the cameras and chairs show up at capitol hill... Gotta lotta work... Tricks like this make stuff easier...

Cheers.