Buffalo Challenge

[Medicinehorse7]

Hi all,

If anyone had seen Quadarts " Kudu Charge" and have been imressed as I was at the level of detail and potential that it offers i.e. taxidermist molds, movies, Monuments etc... Certainly, animals of all types offer a great challenge.

The animal that interests me the most is the Bison. I have seen sets such as http://www.head-smashed-in.com/ in Fort Macleod Canada and feel that a buffalo jump project could be a viable challenge worth pursuing. Additionally, here is a site that Kevin Costner helped establish. http://www.storyofthebison.com/photogallery.asp

Aside from that fact that big bucks where exchanged for the piece and that The natives a peeved at Mr. Costner, I admire the thought and art.

Here is the Challenge: Create Buffalo going over a jump. Post bases meshes and rework as necessary. Create them as you see fit, realistic,[stylized ie. marble, bronze, stone etc.

Keep the styles varied - loose, anatomically tight, etc , but create a piece that could be presented as a possible monument or museam presentation.

If you have what it takes lets pursue it and do a paid commission. Small or large, I am game.

Here are some reference shots:
35201.jpg
35204.jpg
02.jpg
buffalo-jump.jpg
10.jpg

[Medicinehorse7]

Oh and i forgot;

Check out the "flea market" in the community forum. Canned Mushrooms has made an upload linksite for us. I put some nice Buffalo refence shots as well as fur.

[spaceboy412]

that fourth image was used on U2's One single benefiting AIDS i believe.
http://www.u2tour.de/discographie/singles/One.html
Another interesting challenge MH7, but it would be nice for you to show us what your models look like as well.

[Medicinehorse7]

spaceboy412,

I am doing around 700 rubrics (5 strands) for my VoTech classes right
now and reconfiguring my server and workstations. I dont have access at home at the moment, so when everything free's up a bit, I will be contributing as well as my classes.

[Medicinehorse7]

Here try this Zphere base
it is a simple zphere model

[grey32]

I had a stab at a base mesh. The heads not too good, but it IS low res.
Feel free to play with it. It's actually based on a reindeer mesh with an
'antlerectomy'. :)

G.

[Medicinehorse7]

grey32,

Thank you very much, I just had my entire lab reconfigured so I should be able to work on this project myself soon.

[Medicinehorse7]

grey32,

I tried the mesh that you made and the body doesnt seem to work with some tools, The transpose was ok on the head, but after that the inflate brush would not work on the body. The funny part is that it works on the head, but move down with the tool and nothing. Is this a bug in my program or the mesh?

[grey32]

I unzipped and checked the tool. It looks OK. Did you perhaps set up a mask
for the transpose and leave it in place? Maybe turning off Masking/ViewMask?

Try a Ctrl-Shift-A to clear any mask.

G.

[Atwooki]

Hi Guys,

Great challenge! I don't have time to partake myself, but tweaked grey32's mesh a little further ;)

Feel free to tinker with and use at will :)

cheers

Chris

[Medicinehorse7]

Atwooki,grey32,

I took and tweaked your mesh further and I feel it has good potential.
I subdivided a few times and am posting this current model.
Here are some shots.finals_5 copy.jpg finals_4 copy.jpg

[Medicinehorse7]

oops hit the wrong button here is the final shofinals_3a copy.jpg t and the file.

[grey32]

Hey, good job on that rework AtWooki, especially the head. Thanks.
I think was trying too hard to keep the poly count low and avoid going
back into re-topo' ;)

Looking great MedicineHorse7. I think that glitch is just a render/redraw
problem. I see it a lot at low res. It goes away as you subdivide.

(E.G. See below for the same model on my screen.)

Now I'm going to have to try and improve my mediocre skills by taking this
one further myself!

[Atwooki]

Thanks :)

That 'glitch' is from Tool --> Display Properties --> Double ON.
Turn OFF and it'll disappear.

Here's a Bison ZSphere Tool also - just a quickie; but might come in handy ;)

bisonZTool.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:zb_insimg%28%2792791%27,%27bisonZTool.jpg%27, 1,0%29)

Looking forward to seeing your results!

cheers

[Medicinehorse7]

Atwooki,

Thanks for the new model tried it but ran into a few glitches,

Try this new one, I fixed the 6 tri center on the forehead now it is better. There are problems with the horns and the ears they are all wrong. I will clean them up in Maya and repost. Also If someone can start on the feet that would be good.

here is some reference as well as the new mesh.

may13c.jpg may13b.jpg


may13.jpg

and here is the mesh

[Medicinehorse7]

oops--have to stop hitting submit

[Atwooki]

Fixed the head centre tris & symmetry, Medicine; but am out of time right now :(

Hope this helps some....

Bison_Fix3.jpg

Chris

[WailingMonkey]

just fixed a hole near the tail, took out the triangles and re-worked a tiny
bit on the top of the head...also has different UVs now.

http://www.wailingmonkey.com/images/Bison_Fix4.jpg

up fer grabs if anyone wants it. :)

cheers.

WailingMonkey

[Disco Stu]

yeah nice with that fine uv´s ill try it again i started with the first mesh but it was a mayor pain in the ass especialy the feet so ill restart with this mesh

[Atwooki]

Hi WailingMonkey

That bison mesh looks highly usable - nay, great!! Many thanks....

Sure all here will appreciate your efforts there no end :)

Chris

[Medicinehorse7]

WailingMonkey,Atwooki,Disco Stu,

Thanks for the work on the mesh. A little later I am going to import into Maya and fix the ears eyes and horns. They look fine for z but could flow smoother, plus the placement could be a little. Or could that issue be solved with a retopology? what do you guys think?

Perhaps I am just being a picky jerk that doesn't appear grateful ---- I really am grateful for all the interest. and rework.

Here are some reference pics to gain an understanding of what I mean

1.jpg 2.jpg

4.jpg 5.jpg

6.jpg 7.jpg

bison side3.jpg 1a.jpg 2.jpg 1.jpg 2.jpg 51450864_bisonshoof.jpg

[WailingMonkey]

Medicinehorse7,

I wouldn't use that mesh for anything but sculpting, personally...and I just
put UVs onnit for giggles (was just 'unwind' time), even though once a new
retopo mesh has been created from a final sculpt it will need all new UVs as
well. Thanks for adding more resource pics. :)

(P.S. thanks for the kind words, Atwooki...was just having a bit o fun)

[Medicinehorse7]

Hey guys finally got some decent ref pics.

This is a young bull all the same animal. I am probably going to install my ref shots on my other thread in the Community section under flea market.

three quarter.jpg

Here is some morefront.jpg sidea.jpg

[Medicinehorse7]

Hi Guys,


I couldn't fix the horns in Maya (My server is being worked on again. ]
so I reworked the WailingMonkey mesh.

I am trying not to sub-d yet, so its a rough in again. here is the ref.

Oh and by the way Thank you everyone for participating and posting, keep em coming its getting better and better.

sidea.jpg

[Medicinehorse7]

Sorry, here are the mesh shots.


side.jpg front.jpg back.jpg top copy.jpg

[Medicinehorse7]

Check out the bison reference from my Community post "flea market"

http://www.houseoftutorials.net/Zfleamarket/

check the thread and add more

[grey32]

I spent some time working with Atwooki's
Original mesh (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showpost.php?p=452913&postcount=10%22)
I'd already started on it, and I like a nice low res mesh as my base.

I creased under the hooves for the first subdivide, then removed the creasing and divided down to subdiv 4 to 'split' them. then I worked on
the mesh trying to pick the best subdiv for what I needed to change.

This was as far as I got (see attached). It's nowhere near finished, even
at this subdiv.

I see the problem with the ears. They should be lower and under the horns.
I'll take another look at the base mesh when I next get the chance.

Then I got sidetracked. (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showpost.php?p=454434&postcount=690%22)
;)

Feel free to crit both the model and my technique. I need the practice.

[Medicinehorse7]

grey32,

Thank you for the interest and links, I will follow up as soon as I get time --this is finals week for my students.

[grey32]

(Yet Another Base Mesh :D ).

Hey Medicinehorse7 (member.php?u=57355) no problem... (Students in what may I ask?) I'm just
having fun here.

I decided my base mesh wasn't quite right, so I tweaked it. Although I
admit that, had I known what an adventure it would be, I might not have!

I tried about 10 times to do a simple retopo in ZB, but it defeated me. For
some reason all the bugs come out and bite you at subdiv 1.

So I downloaded the latest Blender and did it there. I had to learn enough
Blender mesh editing to do that, which took a few false starts.

Then of course I had to put the UV's back, and I'd forgotten to bring Atwooki's eyes along. Doh!

Eventually, I got it stitched back together with the UV's and all (I think).
So I re-did my edits down to subdiv 4 again.

The pic here shows what I did to the mesh (all that work just for that lol!)

The other attachment is my ZTL at subdiv 4.

G.

[Medicinehorse7]

grey32,

Thanks alot I checked the ztl its great. That sure is alot of work for this project and I sure do appreciate it. The base looks great and I am sure we can all use it.

I am a Graphic arts and Film teacher in a vocational program in AZ. I am Sioux and work and live among the Navajo's. I have great opportunities here within the 4 corners region for possible real world project to spin out of the models made here.

Any culturally significant project that would include training Native youth has grant money written all over it. I was involved in writing a 4 million dollar grant and we got the grant so this little project may have a very large potential. I just need to find professionals of a high degree and network a little. So at any rate lets see what fruit this little thread may bare. Once again thank you and I will be working this mesh to see what I can do with my small skill:rolleyes:

[grey32]

Hi Medicinehorse7. (http://member.php/?u=57355)

Glad you think the ZTL may be useful. I'll continue working with it myself
(I'm presently trying to figure out the back of the hooves). Although as
a 'Weekend ZBrusher" my progress will likely be quite slow, I think
working on challenge posts like yours has to be a good way to improve
my skills with ZB.

FYI. I noticed a little problem with the ZTL...

The eyes (now a separate subtool) don't have the Activate Symmetry button
turned on. Not a big issue. But if you re-position them using "Move", they
will move together instead of symmetrically and will be tricky to re-align
(especially as resym on a subtool doesn't work). It's probably a good idea to
get that Activate Symmetry button turned on soonest. Else you might end up
re-importing the eyes from the original ZTL (like I just had to).


Someday I'll have to revist AZ. I spent 5 years there (in Phoenix working
for Motorola) and I sure loved the climate. Now I'm back in soggy
Cambridge. U.K. :D Never got up to Four Corners though.

G.

[Medicinehorse7]

grey32,

Hey Grey worked a little on your latest mesh, Im going slow and learning new tools, what to do and what not to do. Its slow going but Im gettimng faster. Thanks again for the mesh help.

May 28 2008_1.jpg
May 28 2008_2.jpg
May 28 2008_3.jpg May 28 2008_4.jpg

heres a little more ref,

75a.jpg
65283339_zOyaB0nr_PrairieDay084.jpg

[grey32]

Hey Medicinehorse, looking good. Better than my progress already.

On the 'problem areas', maybe you just need to leave them until you
subdivide once or twice more? Sometimes it's a mistake to try and
get a low res mesh to hold too much detail, especially as a subdivide
will tend to smooth details away.

BTW: In case you hadn't spotted it. The mesh I posted is 'creased'
(to stop subdiv smoothing) in two areas. The base of the horns and the
divides between the hooves.

Thanks for those pics, esp' the one of the hooves. It's tricky finding
good reference pics for those.

G.

[cannedmushrooms]

Ok so the forum has been slow as dog lately.
Yes I still keep a watchful eye on my favorite place to roam.
I love these bison so I thought I would join in.

I'm Going a diferent route than a statue. But that will progress later on.

For now heres my head after playing around with the idea of "bison skull" Boy these guys have fat heads.

Base meshs sorta slow the progress down and limit the imagination sometimes in my workflow. I just made mine out of a Squcircle if thats ok. ;) I'll retopo it later.
bison_r1.jpg
bison_r2.jpg

[cannedmushrooms]

Bison Hair

All i can say is intresting.
Just have to learn to let go I guess.

bison_r3.jpg

[Medicinehorse7]

cannedmushrooms,

Hey guy thanks for the post, I like your take on the head. I know what you mean about a fat head , from my take the older the bulls get the fatter the head. I have been downloading my refs from Flickr and have found some skinney narrow cow heads as well. The hooves are a little slow for me, thanks you guys again for your efforts and interest.

[grey32]

Hiya cannedmushrooms (member.php?u=26596)

I like the heads. Welcome!

Funny about the 'fat heads' thing...

I just shrunk my meshes head a little (in <-X->) after coming to believe
that I was being misled by the head shot 'Young Bull' reference that (I
think) MedicineHorse7 posted.

Its obviously taken close up, with a relatively wide-angle lens. I think
its making the bulls noggin look somewhat over inflated, even for a bison.

Mind you, they are still big.

G.

[cannedmushrooms]

Kotanka has sought revenge for his peoples hardships.

Not liking the idea that his people have been thrown off cliffs and turned into coats and burger.

He lofts his prize high in warning not to toss any more poor defenseless bison over a cliff and make statues of it!

What is his prize?



More to come on this WIP

Kotanka2.jpg

[spaceboy412]

haha, nice one jason.
hey you know if you ever want to do a zbrush comic i'm right there with you. (about whatever, not just superhero buffalo)

[Medicinehorse7]

cannedmushrooms,

Sweet, take on the theme dude, that actually has promise as a storyline.

Sorry I haven't been here for a little while, I just got the entire digital bundle from Gnomon and have been watching training tapes for days. I am currently practising my wacom skills. I will soon get back to business, later guys.

[cannedmushrooms]

Kotanka's prize is revealed!

Now making Kotanka known to his people as Kotanka The Indian Slayer (no offence to Medicine) ;)



For he is free of any misdoings!



He has donated to Zfleamarket!

http://www.houseoftutorials.net/Zfleamarket (http://www.houseoftutorials.net/Zfleamarket)



For any others.

You to must make sacrifices or else Kotanka will be know by more than one name in this thread.

You have been warned!!!

Kotanka3.jpg

Kotanka will look the other way for the occasional Hot pocket and cherry pop tart. (just a hint)

[The Cheshire Cat]

Professional and warcraftish, well done.

[Medicinehorse7]

Hi guys,



Just thought I would mention that I will be on travel for a couple of months. I would appreciate it if you could baby sit the site --- maybe say boo so that it doesn't slip too far down the stack. Thanks and happy Zbrushing!

[grey32]

Ooops!

The result of exporting mesh to Blender for a bit of rigging and posing,
then re-importing into base mesh.

I kind of expected this, still these vertex order goofs always make for
interesting models :)

G.

[grey32]

Well, even though I can't re-import from Blender to ZB, I thought I could at
least use the (very) basic rig I did to sketch some poses of the low res
mesh. I wasn't working from any reference, just messing around.

I sucked those that didn't look too bad back into ZB and assembled
them into a quick scene. Not much progress, but I'm learning a lot.

I'll get back to modelling now.:) G.

BisonPoseTest1.jpg
BisonPoseTest2.jpg

[Medicinehorse7]

Hey guys,

I'm back after a long while. I sure loved this thread as well as reading yours. It would be nice to reactivate this thread - what do you think?

[grey32]

Hey, welcome back MedicineHorse7.

I heard you were having 'ISP issues'?

Must admit. I've not done anything on this thread for a while now. I'll
have to dig out my last file.

G.

[Medicinehorse7]

Hello everyone,

I have been busy crosslinking this post to several sites. This is a small measure of advertising this site and the followers threads. Feel free to coment and give me suggestions.

My target goal is to establish a presence of those interested in Native 3D art in general. Should you wish I will submit you images that have been submitted as a participant and advertise your work as well.

here is the link to my Blog; http://medicinehorse7.blogspot.com/
and a sample of my 3D work that is found there.

waterbird-vision-1.jpg

[Medicinehorse7]

Oh by the way the coals, Peyote and sand Altar are all Zbrush, then imported into Bryce as objects.

[Medicinehorse7]

Hello everyone,

I have been very busy yet am still interested in those that would like to work with this base mesh.

Do what you will with it, all I ask is that you post your models and pics of your designs back here.

With the release of ZB3.5r3 I look forward to some cool features. Enjoy!
base-tri-buffalo.jpg base-tri-buffalo-side.jpg

[earthtriber]

this looks great I will have a play with this tomorrow night and post my result thanks very much....:D

[earthtriber]

bison.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:zb_insimg%28%27170051%27,%27bison.jpg%27,1,0% 29)

put a couple of hours into the grey2's bison6 ztl at level 4 sub div

what a majestic creature this beast is.... wonderful form to the bison its forehead is amazing.

I deleted the lowest level so I could post it here but sure it can be reconstructed and the eyes can go up a sud div or two to make them rounder....

using the reference from page two of this thread and the great pic's from Medicinehorse7

the model is attached here feel free to tuck into it and create I would love to see the results.... :)

I would love to hear what you think I plan to do more soon!!

[Medicinehorse7]

earthtriber,

Thanks for the interest. I like your result, I'm going to try several styles, maybe some Art Deco or scuptural architecture styles. And thank you for modifying the mesh.
I need to fix the tail in Maya I missed a spot when I mirrored the model and was merging vertices.

Whats the difference in Poly Verses Tri ? I have always wondered about it. Should I take it back to Maya and Clean up the tri back to straight Polys?

[earthtriber]

Thanks Medicinehorse7 Tri polys where not working well in Zbrush which is the only 3d program that i use... but that model is great so definitely convert it back to square polys much easier to use...

I just been reworking the eye edge loop could only get a model out at level 3 sub div problems with the mesh projecting on to the new topo... so I salvaged the head and poly grouped the head back on to the old body...

have merged the two tools together but as you can see the neck seem has not joined

eye reworking.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:zb_insimg%28%27170062%27,%27eye%20reworking.j pg%27,1,0%29)

I have included the ztl here anyone who can fix it can you explain how to join these lines?

still loads to learn here!

[Medicinehorse7]

I'll try and weld the vertices in a bit. I'll work on the base mesh again and resubmit for further evaluation.

[Medicinehorse7]

December-08-2009_1.jpg

I welded the Verts and did a little work on the tail and Eye.

I superimposed the model on a Maya Plane and you can use that for comparing anatomy for the mesh enclosed. here is the mesh.

As always please post your reworks here so that we may modify / fix them as necessary. Thanks and enjoy.

[Medicinehorse7]

I reduced the Poly count in Maya by 30% and splat the mesh did this when I tried to Smart ReSym in Zbrush the symetry was only 50% what is the story?

December-08-2009-a_2.jpg

[earthtriber]

ouch looks hectic... how do i get mtl file back to ztl?

[Medicinehorse7]

Here is a better poly base mesh.

I matched to an image plane for reference.

[Medicinehorse7]

Heres a larger image of the mesh.

December-08-3-2009_3.jpg

[Medicinehorse7]

After suffering a string of bad meshes I reworked the base in Maya , knoked out and fixed vertice weld errors and totally replaced the horns,

I then imported it into Zbrush 3.5r3 and saved a ZtL for you here is the latest. Sorry for the trial and errors but try this one.

side.jpg 3-quarters.jpg December-08-2009_04_10.jpg

[earthtriber]

I been playing around with the bison6 mesh most of this afternoon and came up with this beast like a hulk version I am really liking it and its the first model I played with transpose master....

what fun!!

thanks guys

bison2.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:zb_insimg%28%27170353%27,%27bison2.jpg%27,1,0 %29)

[Medicinehorse7]

Great sculpt so far,

I spent my day rescuing a friend out of the snow, and revamping the base mesh.
it was worth it - no holes and a better body. I enlarged the feet and retopoded the horns and added some edge loops around the ears and below the nose so it has a better allowance for reconstructing the lower jaw. here are some more reference shots. I have a ton.

front-1.jpg geoff_timidly_feeding_buffalo.jpg 25220455_eb35acf835_b.jpg itch.jpg under.jpg
More later!

[Gary Komar]

when you uploaded the first i was like- tris in ZB ?????? looking better tho ! :tu:

[grey32]

Hi all.

Like Gary, I'm allergic to tri's :D

But I also spotted a couple of minor glitches with that latest mesh at the
tip of the tail and the horns. I fixed 'em here (I think).

[... and had to add one tri' :cry:]

I also recentered him. For some reason ZB had his origin way off below the
mesh Now the origin is in the centre of the mesh, which is better, but I'd
like to be at his feet?

All minor issues.

G.

[Medicinehorse7]

Thank you very much grey,

I am using this version and I find the latest mesh works very well. I had 2 sculps WIP and will post.

[Medicinehorse7]

Just a WIP of Greys Mesh, I slow at it --the old chip away method.

I tried the full on really agressive brush work -- not for me. More to come.

December-10-2009_1.jpg December-10-2009_2.jpg December-10-2009_3.jpg