Which platform do you primarily use ZBrush with? (Mac or PC)

[Paint Guy]

Which platform do you use ZBrush with? (Mac or PC)

Please do not vote if you own an illegal or crack version of Zbrush as it will skew the results. We're talking "legal" copies here. :D

[Paint Guy]

Admin - Please delete this double post and leave the other one! Thanks

[stoob]

I would use it a lot more if a current version was compatible with my MAC hardware! :mad:

[Paint Guy]

I believe they're working on it, but I agree it's been a long wait. Sigh!

[jthair]

I am running a Mac Pro but I have given up with ZBrush. I will wait for the time it shows up able to run on the Mac.

[Arin]

mac

[loki74]

Mac, for sure, seeing as I don't even own a windows machine anymore... (everything else I need is OSX native).

However, I imagine the real poll is Pix's sales...

[spaceboy412]

Perhaps Paintguy meant this as a legitimate study but i can't help but think its just a way for Mac users to try to prove to Pix that they are many in numbers. And just to complain about the Mac version not being out yet. I'm not trying to offend anyone so please don't take this as an attack on Mac users, i just don't see how this thread cannot turn into what it already seems to be.

[Paint Guy]

Perhaps Paintguy meant this as a legitimate study but i can't help but think its just a way for Mac users to try to prove to Pix that they are many in numbers. And just to complain about the Mac version not being out yet. I'm not trying to offend anyone so please don't take this as an attack on Mac users, i just don't see how this thread cannot turn into what it already seems to be.
Well by your comments you're obviously a Windows user, but to answer your question I was not trying to create a scientific poll but, just an unscientific poll to see what % of users are using ZB on the PC or Mac. It may not be scientific, but it does give "SOME" indication as to the support for mac users.
:D

[stoob]

I find there is a lot of anti-MAC sentiment in these forums...
We are perceived as "the whiners"... Plz consider the fact that we still have not gotten our ZB3 upgrade. We never got ZMapper... ever. It is also sounding like we never will... ever, get ZMapper! We paid the same money as the PC users, therefore it does not seem unreasonable to expect the same product & service. We are not "MAC whiners" we are licensed Zbrush owners who have not received the product.... STILL! :mad:

[spaceboy412]

Actually it doesnt give "some" indication as you say, it only shows that Mac users are willing to fill out a poll, also you've rigged the test due to posting the link for this thread in the Mac News thread.
There is no way for this ever to be an accurate test with the parameters that you've set. As a previous poster said, Pix is the only one in the know about this due to sales.

Stoob, i'm not anti-mac or saying you're whiners, as i said i had no intention to offend, but just wanted to note that this poll is pointless due to there being no control of the factors involved. And it was your first post which moved it into a complaining mode.

One way to judge this test is to take the #of forum members, then take the number of different posters that have posted in the mac thread and you may get a rough percentage, but of course with a high chance of error.

[stoob]

Another buried thread... Thx Pixologic!

:qu:

[Lumin8]

tastes great...

[The Namek]

I use it on windows at home and on parallels(mac) at work.

I do miss a third license though so I could run it on my laptop too :)

I've got nothing against mac and I do feel for you guys having to wait so long. But i've never been an extreme supports of mac nor windows , so it has never really been an issue for me on what OS to run Zbrush on. But I guess some people arent able to afford a powerful windows workstation next to their mac system. But as a developer I also know it's a pain for pixologic to have 2 versions of everything each time.

[BazC]

No-one but Pixologic know the numbers of Mac and Windows ZB licenses but they seem unwilling to pass that information on to their users. I've no idea why, many other developers make that info available. We're continually told by Windows users that Mac users are a tiny minority yet from the figures I've seen from creative app developers (Lightwave, Cinema, Modo, Photoshop, Maya) the proportion of Mac users is much higher in graphics field than most people suppose (20% +?)

I'd love to know if it's true of ZBrush too! What's wrong with that?

[Mr.Storm]

Just waiting for zbrush 3 for mac.
I don't think people understand how many art people use MAC's
Now that they run intel chips people are buying them up. That and the simple fact that vista isn't very good right now.

Anyway I want to use zbrush 3 on my quad core mac. running OS X and not windows xp or vista.

peace

[10n6]

I too am waiting with anticipation for version 3 for the mac. Please let it be soon guys ;)

[Paint Guy]

Just waiting for zbrush 3 for mac.
I don't think people understand how many art people use MAC's
Now that they run intel chips people are buying them up. That and the simple fact that vista isn't very good right now. Anyway I want to use zbrush 3 on my quad core mac. running OS X and not windows xp or vista. peace

Your point about people buying up macs is true IMO.

For years I have said how happy I am using my mac. And for years my friends would say how they would never use a mac. Now it seems like the tide might be changing. In the last year my father-in-law has bought macs for all of his companies employees and he love's them, two of my best friends have bought macs and my bro-in-law has bought one too. BTW, none of these people art artist's either. So where's my commission apple? lol. :D

Before any windows users think I am on a crusade for mac, let me say the mac is just a tool for me and it get's the job done quite nicely, but if windows or another OS does a better job then I will move to that. I just find that the mac OS has worked out well so far.
:D

I agree that Pixologic only knows the true no. of mac and windows users, but if the number of mac users are equal or close to the no. of windows users, then why are us mac users always having to wait up to a year longer for the same version of software? "scratches head" :confused:

[-WOODY-]

I know with the newer macs that you can run emulators that allow you to run windows XP which would let you use ZBrush 3. Why not use that?
I saw the software once, but I forget what it was called.

Nothing personal, but it seems no matter what forum I go to, I see the same types of complaints more often than not to the effect of "So when are you going to come out with a mac version?".

I use a mac at work and I have a pc at home. Anymore, I don't see enough of a benefit to justify buying a mac for just those types of reasons.

Unless some people just don't like Windows XP or Vista.

Personally I'd like to see a widely supported and single distribution of Lynix that would run all of my software and drivers with no fuss. I would jump at that in a heartbeat.

[stoob]

"I don't see enough of a benefit to justify buying a mac for just those types of reasons"

An 8 core Mac Pro with 8 gigs of ram & a 30 inch monitor & 12*18 intuos 2... (running OSX)
Seems like a good justification to me.

now if I could just get ZBrush 3 on it!

:D

[jthair]

I know with the newer macs that you can run emulators that allow you to run windows XP which would let you use ZBrush 3. Why not use that?
I saw the software once, but I forget what it was called.


Unless some people just don't like Windows XP or Vista.

There is a limit on the RAM with Parallels, I have had problems with my Wacom under Parallels.
As you say I just don't like Windows . I do use Windows for some unrelated text base applications because they are the only game in town. Luckily the upgrades to my other cross platform applications come out at the same time as the Windows versions.

John

[BazC]

I know with the newer macs that you can run emulators that allow you to run windows XP which would let you use ZBrush 3. Why not use that?

Nothing personal, but it seems no matter what forum I go to, I see the same types of complaints more often than not to the effect of "So when are you going to come out with a mac version?".

I use a mac at work and I have a pc at home. Anymore, I don't see enough of a benefit to justify buying a mac for just those types of reasons. It seems like every forum i visit I see the same posts, usually along the lines of "When are you going to give us a Linux version?" The difference is I don't jump in and say what's the point, why don't you just use Windows! ;)

That was meant tongue in cheek but there's a lot of truth in it! I have no interest in Linux but if you want to use it good luck to you and by all means put whatever pressure you can on developers to get more Linux apps released. That's just what Mac users are doing so please respect that!

BTW I have Windows XP pro running with ZB3 on it and that was OK but I don't enjoy the experience, I also object to all the registration nonsense. I installed XP on a partition and activated the software, then I replaced my HD and had to activate it again, then I installed Parrallels and Windows in it's wisdom decided I needed to activate it again, by now of course I was a suspected pirate and had to answer a load of questions to justify my reactivation.

Then I upgrade my Mac OS and now Windows reports that some extension or other is either missing or corrupt and to be honest I can't be bothered to go through the whole reinstallation and activation rigmarole again. I'll just wait for ZB3 OSX version thanks! :p

[electricCAT]

We teach computer animation, graphics and video skills (along with traditional skills) and the entire floor is Apple computers, approx. 300 machines.
I would like to teach ZBrush, but what ever is solid on the Mac first will be purchased.

It seems to me even small companies like Newtek, and Alias could put out both platforms at the same time. That's mainly why we chose those applications. Because they supported both AT THE SAME TIME!!!

Now Maya is out regularly on multiple platforms... Pixologic is just going to have to step up-to-the-plate. Hire more programers if you have to.

My vote is for MAC

[Mr.Storm]

An 8 core Mac Pro with 8 gigs of ram & a 30 inch monitor & 12*18 intuos 2... (running OSX)
Seems like a good justification to me.

now if I could just get ZBrush 3 on it!

:D

Amen brother Amen!

[loki74]

I know with the newer macs that you can run emulators that allow you to run windows XP which would let you use ZBrush 3. Why not use that?
I saw the software once, but I forget what it was called.


It's either going to be BootCamp or Parallels.

Both scnearios: I pay an additional sum of money to purchase a Windows license so that I can use a piece of software. Which I already paid for.

BootCamp: I model a base mesh LightWave on OSX. I save, close everything out, & restart. I boot into XP or Vista. I pull my hair our dealing with said OS. I do my sculpting in ZBrush. I save and shut down again. Restart again. Load up OSX. Hop back into LightWave... now lets say as I'm working again in LW I decide there's another detail I want to add.. guess what I'm about to do?

Parallels: I pay an additional sum of money to purchase Parallels. I pay further to purchase Windows. I finally get Parallels working, but I am unable to operate at peak efficiency, and my Wacom's probably gonna get a bit funky. Not to mention, I've still gotta deal with Windows.

So I have two options: expensive & super duper inconvenient, or even more expensive & only super inconvenient.

In short, emulation is a solution which is not viable to app users. Maybe to some (I know there are folks who have been quite successful using these solutions)... but not all.



Yes, the Mac community may seem to complain. Heck, some folks even whine.

But let's not pretend it would be any different if it were the other way around, or try to make it out as though the Mac userbase doesn't have a very valid basis and justification for complaint.

(Of course, Pix also has a valid basis for complaint... like I've said before, Apple isn't exactly making things easy for multi-platform developers... but, that could be its own thread, really...)

[electricCAT]

Mac, Mac, Mac !!!!

[spaz8]

I'm in a similar boat as BazC, I've had to re-install ZB3 so many times when new builds of parallels etc has come out that I technically need to call Pixologic and get a new authentication cuz I guess i've worn out the one i was issued. I've just stopped. Though I have the luxury of using zbrush3 at work on windows. It would sure be nice to make use of all the cores and ram Parallels is not able to make use of. Parallels works, but its far from ideal. I'm definitely not able to use the full potential of my hardware. I believe i'm using 2 of my 4 cores, and maybe best case 2 of my 9 gigs of ram.

[DailyRebel]

Please show us a bit of respect and give us the mac version of zb3. even if its a beta version

there ary way more designers using a MAC machine

[willbrown1]

Most creatives use a Mac. Windows machines, up until recently, haven't been able to do effective color calibration for print. Creatives are embarrased to admit to using them.

The animation world is different. With the preeminence of Autodesk, PC is the platform of choice for 3D. There are exceptions.

I use both. I prefer Mac because OSX is way beyond any win OS.


The "Mac is a toy" snobbery of early DOS users was the initial geek reason for PC biggotry. BTW those idiots were the first guys to do backflips over Win 3.0, which was a sucky version of the Mac OS GUI.

Every PC user is using what amounts to a Mac knock off to tell the truth.
Yeah, I know the Xerox Star was the first real desktop metaphor GUI. I used that thing for 3 years starting in 1985. Thank god the Mac came along because the Star was crap by comparison.

Just wanted to set the history straight not start a flame war.

[stoob]

I don't see any point in bashing other platforms, choose one & be happy with it.
As far as I'm concerned, they are both great, I happen to prefer one & my workflow is oriented that way.
Let's keep it about ZBrush! :)

[-WOODY-]

I didn't know it was that much of a pain to set up a windows os on a mac. You learn something new every day.

My main train of thought is this. I use a fairly new G5 at work using graphics software, the PC I built at home is faster and cheaper to use. I'm not a fan boy either way it's just that I tend to be practical and logical.

PC's are cheaper to build and software is more readily available including games, freeware and opensourse software. I know that's changing over time, but that's slow-going.

I would think that most people would be aware of the whole "software availability" issue before buying a Mac. If you prefer using a Mac, that's fine and dandy, but while knowing this information beforehand do you buy a Mac, then complain to software makers to make a version for your OS? Most programs are still written primarily for PC's because, as you know, they are more widely used and companies have to think about getting the most money possible first, then as you know, Mac's come in second.

I'm guessing it's the same thing with Pixologic. PC uses are more than likely the biggest users so they get first dibs.

As to the accuracy of this Poll Thread, who knows.

[antsjoe]

Pc

[jthair]

I would think that most people would be aware of the whole "software availability" issue before buying a Mac. If you prefer using a Mac, that's fine and dandy, but while knowing this information beforehand do you buy a Mac, then complain to software makers to make a version for your OS? Most programs are still written primarily for PC's because, as you know, they are more widely used and companies have to think about getting the most money possible first, then as you know, Mac's come in second.

I'm guessing it's the same thing with Pixologic. PC uses are more than likely the biggest users so they get first dibs.

As to the accuracy of this Poll Thread, who knows.

There are many software packages that I use that are cross platform and like Photoshop, Painter, Poser, Lightwave and Vue they come out at the same time as the PC version. Microsoft has a different version at a different time for their products but after all Excel was a port to the PC from the Mac. Even Apple released Safari for the Mac/PC first as a beta and then the full package at the same time.

John

[stoob]

I didn't know it was that much of a pain to set up a windows os on a mac. You learn something new every day.

Its not that much of a pain to install... just a pain to restart... also windows does not see more than 2 gigs of my eight gigs of RAM


My main train of thought is this. I use a fairly new G5 at work using graphics software, the PC I built at home is faster and cheaper to use. I'm not a fan boy either way it's just that I tend to be practical and logical.

There are no "fairly new" G5s... they are fairly old. :lol:


I would think that most people would be aware of the whole "software availability" issue before buying a Mac. If you prefer using a Mac, that's fine and dandy, but while knowing this information beforehand do you buy a Mac, then complain to software makers to make a version for your OS? Most programs are still written primarily for PC's because, as you know, they are more widely used and companies have to think about getting the most money possible first, then as you know, Mac's come in second.

When I bought ZBrush... It was described as MAC and PC.
I think, therefore, I showed due diligence.
The only other developer I've come across with such disdain for their own MAC customers is NeverCenter (SILO3D) :mad: :mad: :mad:


I'm guessing it's the same thing with Pixologic. PC uses are more than likely the biggest users so they get first dibs.

Well, that doesn't explain how a piece of code as large & robust as MAYA gets simultaneous releases. Autodesk is not particularly known as a MAC developer & MAYA is a HUGE piece of software engineering, yet they seem to pull it off just fine.

so.... YA! there you have it.... :rolleyes:

[electricCAT]

I'd rather work on my Mac. In fact, I do.
BUT!!! I had to dig up an old PC to use ZB3 and that just adds to the frustration.

Beside my classroom in all MAC and so is our entire department.

I've used the ZB2 on MAC. No comparision to ZB3. I don't even look at it anymore. ZB3 is leaps & bounds beyond 2.

[GORILLA]

Hehehe... us Mac ZBrush users are now officially known as .....


'THE FORGOTTEN' :lol: :eek:

[Pablosan]

Unfortunately it doesn't look like the poll is getting enough votes to be meaningful... I'm guessing Pix has a bit more than 100 registered users... If not, they need to start marketing their "money stretching" abilities! :lol:

[electricCAT]

I couldn't even vote on the Poll.
But I use a Mac.

[RELD]

Since I'm a mac user, and I don't have any Windows Machine, neither at work I'm not using Zbrush at the moment.
I bought a license as ZB3 came out because there would be an UB/Intel mac version of the software :(
I'm still waiting for it as all of the mac users.
I'm using modo 301 at the moment for my work.
greetings to everyone, specially to all the forgotten ;)
R.

[artol]

Don't even care that it isn't yet 64 bit !!!
Running Windows on my 8core intel is a pain in the " "
I am not a PC basher at all just want to run one of my fav apps " ZB " native on my machine and OS of choice.

[Mr.Storm]

I didn't know it was that much of a pain to set up a windows os on a mac. You learn something new every day.

My main train of thought is this. I use a fairly new G5 at work using graphics software, the PC I built at home is faster and cheaper to use. I'm not a fan boy either way it's just that I tend to be practical and logical.

PC's are cheaper to build and software is more readily available including games, freeware and opensourse software. I know that's changing over time, but that's slow-going.

I would think that most people would be aware of the whole "software availability" issue before buying a Mac. If you prefer using a Mac, that's fine and dandy, but while knowing this information beforehand do you buy a Mac, then complain to software makers to make a version for your OS? Most programs are still written primarily for PC's because, as you know, they are more widely used and companies have to think about getting the most money possible first, then as you know, Mac's come in second.

I'm guessing it's the same thing with Pixologic. PC uses are more than likely the biggest users so they get first dibs.

As to the accuracy of this Poll Thread, who knows.I hear and feel what your saying.
BUT!!

What the software people might not understand is that there are a lot more mac people now, due to the fact that they started making intel based mac's
Lets face the facts. Windows XP and Vista are CRAP to work under. Look how easy it is in leopard to find files and preview them. I don't know how many times windows has made me miss a deadline and OS X has never crashed on me. Never not once. I've been making and using PC's for years and I was a big PC fan boy. Until one day I was using zbrush in windows xp and that bitch crashed on me. Then I ran out and got 1 mac pro and 2 mac books and a mac mini for the house. I've never been so happy. I don't have to install tons of other apps to keep my OS running safe and I don't have to work on computer problems AT ALL. Everything just works now and it saves me tons of time. I can't wait for you guys to make a version of zbrush that works on a iphone. :-)

Anyway. You can tell by this poll that people are buying macs now more than ever before and that the software makers need to start finding mac programers. Just becasue there are more windows pc's in the world doesn't mean pc's are the best platform to make programes on. And lets face even more facts about this lack of software myth that is out there. Windows has more crapy software than MAC for people to chose from. But at the end of the day the pc people will be running the same software as the mac users. Photoshop, MAYA, MODO, Lightwave, SiLO, After effects Combustion SHAKE Lightroom and VUE6. All those apps run on both mac and pc. If you want to play games then buy a XBOX 360. It's only simple logic that you would want to run those apps in Leopard. IMO leopard handels RAM and open gl better than windows. DX10 is crap and MS has locked people into using it.

END of mac fan boy rant.
sigh.....

When ZB3 comes out for the mac users we will shut up. But until then look for more rants. But take your time on making ZB3 for MAC. I want it to be nice and stable.

And as a MAC user it's my job to bitch to software makers to support my OS.
I'm the customer and supply and demand is still very active, and is the back bone to making and selling software.

I use zbrush there for I am.
I demand and you supply and I give you my money so you can eat.
SLAP!

Love you guys and keep up the good work.

PS In all the art studios I've been to I've seen more MACs than PCs But I did see alot of render farms that were all PC based. I even say a PS3 render farm.

-peace

[artol]

Macs only hold 2.9 % of worldwide market share in sales, I believe this number has inched up slightly in recent months to somewhere around 3. something. 4.2 million Mac units sold as opposed to 67 million PC units worldwide in 07. What this means to me is simple. The cost of developing our fav app ZB is being payed for by our PC friends. I am a business man and I understand that. We use Macs because we know they are very well made and give us the computer experience we desire. It is worth waiting for a great app like ZB to come around to our platform and I am sure it will be worth every minute of agonizing pain we go though using Windows to get our work done.
Besides every time we open windows it's just a reminder of how much it really dose SUCK !!! But you have to admit it's awesome that we have a computer that will run anything we need.

Cheers :rolleyes:

[stoob]

... And what percentage of those PCs are typewriters, cash registers, gaming rigs?

... What is the percentage of Professional designers, Illustrators, Vfx people Use Macs?.... a great deal more than that my friend.

[bobobobson]

does the office having 2 macs count as 1 vote or 2?


mac, of course.

[voller]

Heh, this poll is sooooo inaccurate, especially since most that are viewing this are linked to here from the Mac News (unofficial) in the support forum. Those running on PC are working with ZB3 and don't have time for polls in the community forum, and chances are didn't even know there was a poll. I only ran into it because I was in that forum checking on the status of ZB3 on Mac for a co-worker.


Kinda like taking a poll from the bible belt region on who should be president and reporting it as the American opinion. (sorry if this ends up as a political discussion)

edit: I don't mean to imply that Mac users are a bunch holy rollers

[artol]

14 Hours Ago Post#11


Thread: So incredibly annoying
aurick
Super Moderator


This will be addressed for the PC after the Mac version of Z3 has been released.

:eek:

[spaceboy412]

voller, this is exactly what i said on the first page.
i see this thread is coming along nicely. wonder why the mods havent integrated it into the other mac thread yet.

[BazC]

Heh, this poll is sooooo inaccurate, especially since most that are viewing this are linked to here from the Mac News (unofficial) in the support forum. Sadly true, it's pretty much meaningless. I think it was moved here from the Main Forum, pity it might have had a more meaningful response there.

[voller]

Guess I should have read through the post :)

I don't want to call Mac users a bunch of whiners either, as they've should have received some sort of news as to why the Mac version is slow to be released. But I do think many are unaware of what it takes to port a more complicated piece of software to another OS, and expect it to be "just done", like there's nothing preventing them from finishing it. Pushing only causes frustation, and doesn't help unless you are in a sweat shop. But again, they should be told what the problem is. I'm sure they'd understand if it had to do with Carbon or Cocoa (no idea how these work, just that it was a headache for a few developers) and the unexpectedly fast release of Leopard screwing up the development of the Mac version they were working on. If it's taking a long time to develop, there must be some roadblock, hardware or software wise, that prevents an easy port to the Mac OS. It's the same road that PS3 owners are facing when PC and XBox 360 games are ported over to them.

Unfortunately, a poll is probably not going to change Pixologic's mind.

[voller]

14 Hours Ago Post#11


Thread: So incredibly annoying
aurick
Super Moderator


This will be addressed for the PC after the Mac version of Z3 has been released.

:eek:Hmm, will we be seeing a release this month for the Mac'ers? Placing my bet for April 15th. A little optimistic...

Also sounds like the Mac version will be more stable until they can get their staff back onto the PC version for the fix.

[NathanLedet]

I have 2 applications that I run on Bootcamp. zBrush and 3Ds Max.

I'm watching DVD's for Maya so I can get away from 3Ds Max and thank goodness zBrush is in beta for Mac. I can't wait to dump windows for good ;)

[Blaine91555]

Mac's 2007 market share was 3.2%. I read an article a few months back that had a link on CG Talk that said in the CG Market they were at about 15%. If you could get a good sample of ZBrush users I don't think it would be anywhere near these numbers.

I've found this argument odd for some time now. Since XP SR2 I've not had a single crash on any of my machines and zero viruses simply by keeping my anti-virus updated. There seems to be a myth about Vista also. I've had it on a laptop for a year without a single problem. Some vendors were slow out of the gate with drivers but that was pretty much incompetence on their parts. All the complaints I saw were from people who did not take the few minutes to figure out a handful of changes and tweak a few settings.

Any software developer who is not nuts has to give priority to PC's. It benefits us all as it helps keep prices down and specialty developers from going belly up.

As for me, my buying decisions are purely pragmatic. Cheaper, faster, more choices of software and since I use these for more than just CG; just plain smarter. If I had money to throw around I'd have both though. For now I'd rather save for a couple of Cintiq's for the office an home.

From the rants I read around the Net, many Mac user must not have used a PC ever or since the bad old days before PC's got really fast and before XP Pro.?????? Some of the arguments were true then but they are not now.

[voller]

Don't throw that 64 bit version of Vista away just yet...

No 64 bit CS4 for Mac because last year they announced discontinuing support for carbon when Jobs told Adobe and the world they would still support it a year earlier. Nothing like rewriting a million lines of code. But what's a 10% increase in speed mean to anyone anyway?

I have not used Vista yet, so I can't comment on it. But I do not have any problems with XP. The only time I've ever bluescreened in XP was when my NVidia driver for the Quadro got corrupted and it was stuck in a loop. Just had to reinstall the driver to fix. Software crashing wise, I've crashed more on a PC only because I push them harder and I use them 99% of the time. But on a Mac I've still crashed out of programs many a time (mostly in Photoshop), without even pushing them to any real limits. I've tried using Mac's, and had to at work for about a year, but everything feels backwards and inefficient. But Mac users feel the same way when attempting to use windows. Whatever makes sense to you, use it.

[10n6]

I've tried using Mac's, and had to at work for about a year, but everything feels backwards and inefficient. But Mac users feel the same way when attempting to use windows. Whatever makes sense to you, use it.Totally Agree. I'm a Mac person and used PCs in previous jobs and a copy of virtual PC for testing web code etc. Whatever you find easy use it. I grew up on macs all my family have them and my friends are Mac Addicts. I still appreciate that each to their own is the best way. Having said that " go buy a mac ;) . Only kidding. Or am I!!!

Roll on the Mac version of 3 though. Can't wait. Don't have an intel version so I'm still using version 2 on my PPC macs. I hope it'll work with my old macs otherwise I'm gonna be using version 2 for some time til I can get some cash for an Intel Mac Pro.

[willbrown1]

I saw just Apple's second quarter earnings. ZanG!

Pixologic needs to pay attention. It's clear that Vista is DOA. I'd be very surprised if 3.0 is not released for mac by July. The Mac user base is expanding at twice the rate of PC.

Any software developer knows this; Pixologic can and will lose market share to other apps (Modo, etc) because they aren't supporting the mac.

Don't be surprised if Mudbox is dual platform eventually coming from Autodesk. BTW when that happens, I'm gone.

As brilliant as ZBrush is, the technology of subD sculpture is showing up in other apps. Competition is a healthy thing, bringing better overall tools to the user. For right now ZBRush has a niche advantage. Not supporting aggressively an expanding user base on the Mac platform may prove to be folly.

Timing is everything. Goodwill and being well thought of is also extremely important. Pixologic has scored very highly on the tech and aesthetic side of its development. Bad PR, weak communication and what appears to be offhand support of a segment of its market (Mac users) may prove to be its Achille's heel.

Pixologic: ya snooze ya loose.

[artol]

As further evidence of the growing interest in Macs among enterprise customers, IBM’s Research Information Services launched an internal pilot program designed to study the possibility of moving significant numbers of employees to the Mac platform. :eek:

[artol]

For those who use parametric nurbs modeling for RP, Rhino is in the final beta testing mode for release of Rhino on OSX :D

[MrZmey]

Mac

[shraber]

Of course; Mac ;)

[Frankf1]

mac

[Lone Deranger]

Mac.

They could give windows machines away for free and I'd still choose a Mac.
Windows just destroys my motivation to be creative. :D

[kelvin273]

ZB3.1onWinXP64 of course.
XP64 - I'm loving it!!! ;)
Cheers
kel

[dmg3d]

If you prefer using a Mac, that's fine and dandy, but while knowing this information beforehand do you buy a Mac, then complain to software makers to make a version for your OS?
That'd be true... you'd have no right to complain.

But what if you bought a PC, bought an app that was available in both PC and Mac versions, and then when the new version came out it was updated for the Mac first... with the PC version to follow. And a year later you're still waiting. Then you'd have the right to complain.

I think the basic problem here is if you're a company that offers an application for multiple platforms, then you'd better be able to maintain those versions. Luxology is a great example of how to do it right. Deliver the app to both platforms at the same time, AND keep your users informed in a timely manner (through newsletters, podcasts and a presence in the forums). They have a great relationship with their users.


I didn't know it was that much of a pain to set up a windows os on a mac. You learn something new every day.It's not a pain to set up. It's inconvenient to use. Kinda like having to get up to change the channel because you lost the remote. :confused:

-Dave

[jthair]

That'd be true... you'd have no right to complain.

But what if you bought a PC, bought an app that was available in both PC and Mac versions, and then when the new version came out it was updated for the Mac first... with the PC version to follow. And a year later you're still waiting. Then you'd have the right to complain.

:confused:

-Dave

The other part of the story is Apple announced the Intel Machines in 2005 to developers with delivery in 2006, we still don't have a stable version of ZBRush that will run on the Intel Macs.

John

[carloscidrais]

Replying to question on the thread...Why, Mac of course...

[MrZmey]

1) http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/osx_vs_vista_upgrades.jpg
2) http://technocop.typepad.com/techno_cop/072207_1300_ApplesPheno2_4.jpg
3) http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/27/leopard-vs-vista-feature-chart-showdown/
4) http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3513_7-6795455-1.html

[voller]

Saying to be able to maintain both versions is easier said than done. For some software, sure, it may be. But ZBrush isn't an image editor or an everyday 3D program. If it was that easy don't you think it would have been released ages ago? Like I said in my past post, it didn't help that Apple said they were going to fully support Carbon in Leopard and then announcing otherwise without notifying developers in advance. That arrogance has caused Adobe not to offer the future CS4 in 64 bit for Mac. Mac and its users blame Adobe for spending their time and money on other projects. But how easy is it to learn a new language and re-rewrite 1,000,000 lines of code, bug free, in time, for the next release? So if ZBrush 3 was done and even working on Tiger, all the Leopard users would still be waiting for a stable version that would be up to par with the PC version. Pixologic might have started out in Cocoa to begin with, but they'd still have to learn it first, which still might be another reason for the delay. It also doesn't help that they would have to make two different versions because of 2 different chipsets, and the possibility for PPC to be left in the dust. all just speculation of course

In the Mac users that I've met, they all seemed programmed to think that everything will just work if they release it, and it all seems to stem from the Mac commercials suggesting that 'it just works'. And from the headaches we've had upgrading 2 Macs to Leopard, (in our experience here at least) it couldn't be further from the truth. And whenever their is a problem with the Mac, they (the Mac users in our office) act like it never happens and they get all defensive and some how they always end up blaming M$, not sure how, but that's where the conversation always seems to end up. Not that Vista was a breeze to upgrade to for all PC users, heck, I'm still waiting another 6 months at least before I dive into that realm.

But all in all, Pixologic STILL should have given a simple reason as to why the delay. Communication is a huge deal to all users. And unanswered questions just cause confusion, speculation, conspiracy theories and polls. Kanye West said 'zBrUSH hates Mac people!' Heheh. Sorry, couldn't help myself.



That'd be true... you'd have no right to complain.

I think the basic problem here is if you're a company that offers an application for multiple platforms, then you'd better be able to maintain those versions. Luxology is a great example of how to do it right. Deliver the app to both platforms at the same time, AND keep your users informed in a timely manner (through newsletters, podcasts and a presence in the forums). They have a great relationship with their users.

-Dave

[TJX]

In the Mac users that I've met, they all seemed programmed to think that everything will just work if they release it, and it all seems to stem from the Mac commercials suggesting that 'it just works'..
Amen to that.

[Frankf1]

I don't have any problems if Pixologic takes more than a year to port Zbrush 3.0 to the mac. I understand that this is a monumental task, and it would take a lot of time to do something like this. But my problem is that I feel I was tricked into buying something that was not yet ready for the mac. I've tried to used 2.0 on my Intel mac, but it just doesn't work, and I don't want to deal with Windows on my mac. So I feel that I could have used that money to buy Modo instead, but now I have neither.

[Super Glitcher]

Every system has problems, there is no such thing as a perfect
solution. Apple has control of both the hardware and the software
and therefor are able to control the stability and compatibility of
their solutions to a much higher degree. This will likely change
as their market share increases though, potentially they face
many of the challenges that plague Windows in scale.

This shouldn't excuse people acting like idiots and being zealous
without experience (per vollers experience). People without knowledge
either make unfounded assertions or admit they don't know (rarely) - this
happens in both mac and pc camps and in either case the failings
of individuals should not be attributed to their platform of choice.
Computers are tools, you use what works the best for you and
that's all that matters.

I grew up in a family of software developers and learned Apple DOS,
DOS, UNIX etc. all very young (starting age 5) and know the caveats
well. Apple does have a good solution, but so do others - it all depends
on what you're trying to do and what your comfortable with.

My motto: use what you like and don't be an ass- playing well with
others make everyone stronger.

If you're a jerk about your platform (I don't care what it is) you're
only creating barriers for other people to expose themselves to it
and find something they may potentially enjoy. We should all make
the best effort we can to become somewhat fluent in all environments.

Anyway, I like my Mac, and I'll like it even more when zB gets released.
*phew*

[kasperle]

I have used almost all types of computers and if I had a pefect machine I would choose a Linux based one but that is not practical.
So in the real world I use only high end PC's - Intel based machines and I have a really healthy workflow and stability using Windows XP both 64 qnd 32 versions. I have found that Vista is a serious drawback in a number of situations and Microsoft will really have to address this in its Windows 7 release and the sooner the better. Vista is so full f stupid stuff that it makes me really wonder who the f**k designed it.
Anyway back to the subject at hand.
Although I was forced to use Macs on occasions when my client had a Mac studio or whatever I would personally never do that to myself in my studio.
I find the whole Mac culture rediculous and very sad indeed and I wish it would just dissapear and threads like this would vanish.
If this thread is to give some people help in making choices then from my stand point the choice is obvious.
A high end Intel or Amd CPU (depending on your budget) couple with as much Ram as possible and a fast hard disk and a reasonable video card.
The CPU and the RAM are the really important aspects.
You can build a machine that will make you very happy for around 400 Euros if you live in Europe and that is really a bargain.
PS To those people who maintain that the Windows based machines are somehow a stifling to their creativity I would suggest that you are a lame loser and need to get a life. If you are in the program of choice eg ZBrush or Maya or whatever you hardly see the operating system and lets face it windows is so easy to use its far more user friendly and adjustable than any Mac that I have ever seen over the last decade.
PPS As far as Pixologic and the ever coming Mac release - who cares? I suggest you get a new PC and get to work. End of story!

[Lone Deranger]

Who cares?? A very significant portion of the zBrush community cares. :D

And yes, Windows' incessant maintenance and security requirements does indeed stiffle my creativity. Every second I have to baby sit a computer is time lost. Time I could spend doing other things. I've spent 10 years on Windows PCs dealing with that and got tired of it. I enjoyed it when I was a kid with plenty of time on my hands. Now I just want to turn on a computer without having to be a sysadmin as well as an artist, so I switched to Macs. Why would you see that as lame and label me and people with similar motivations as being losers with no life? :( That doesn't make any sense if you think about it.

It's a choice I was glad I was able to make with Apple's offerings being out there in the market. Choice is a good thing and I'm very glad Pixologic believes so too.

There's no shame in respecting other people's choice kasperle. If anything it shows maturity of mind. :)

PS... and in the real world (as you put it) at my job at FrameStore-CFC, we use Macs and Linux machines (with hardly a Windows machine in sight) and it's very practical indeed. :tu:



PPS As far as Pixologic and the ever coming Mac release - who cares? I suggest you get a new PC and get to work. End of story!

[Mr.Storm]

I have used almost all types of computers and if I had a pefect machine I would choose a Linux based one but that is not practical.
So in the real world I use only high end PC's - Intel based machines and I have a really healthy workflow and stability using Windows XP both 64 qnd 32 versions. I have found that Vista is a serious drawback in a number of situations and Microsoft will really have to address this in its Windows 7 release and the sooner the better. Vista is so full f stupid stuff that it makes me really wonder who the f**k designed it.
Anyway back to the subject at hand.
Although I was forced to use Macs on occasions when my client had a Mac studio or whatever I would personally never do that to myself in my studio.
I find the whole Mac culture rediculous and very sad indeed and I wish it would just dissapear and threads like this would vanish.
If this thread is to give some people help in making choices then from my stand point the choice is obvious.
A high end Intel or Amd CPU (depending on your budget) couple with as much Ram as possible and a fast hard disk and a reasonable video card.
The CPU and the RAM are the really important aspects.
You can build a machine that will make you very happy for around 400 Euros if you live in Europe and that is really a bargain.
PS To those people who maintain that the Windows based machines are somehow a stifling to their creativity I would suggest that you are a lame loser and need to get a life. If you are in the program of choice eg ZBrush or Maya or whatever you hardly see the operating system and lets face it windows is so easy to use its far more user friendly and adjustable than any Mac that I have ever seen over the last decade.
PPS As far as Pixologic and the ever coming Mac release - who cares? I suggest you get a new PC and get to work. End of story!

What was the last major motion picture you work on? END OF STORY :-)

[Mr.Storm]

Who cares?? A very significant portion of the zBrush community cares. :D

And yes, Windows' incessant maintenance and security requirements does indeed stiffle my creativity. Every second I have to baby sit a computer is time lost. Time I could spend doing other things. I spend 10 years on Windows PCs dealing with that and got tired of it. I enjoyed it when I was a kid with plenty of time on my hands. Now I just want to turn on a computer without having to be a sysadmin as well as an artist so I switched to Macs. Why would you see that as lame and label me and people with similar motivations as being losers with no life? :( That doesn't make any sense if you think about it.

It's a choice I was glad I was able to make with Apple's offerings being out there in the market. Choice is a good thing and I'm very glad Pixologic believes so too.

There's no shame in respecting other people's choice kasperle. If anything it shows maturity of mind. :)

PS... and in the real world (as you put it) at my job at FrameStore-CFC, we use Macs and Linux machines (with hardly a Windows machine in sight) and it's very practical indeed. :tu:

Thanks brother for putting that in perfect words.
I don't know how many times we were working on something in windows and had it crash on us or have to run virus software. I've been to many studios in L.A and I see more MAC's and Linux boxes doing the hard work.

What's really shocking to see is how many studios are using MODO on a MAC. YOU GO MODO! :-)

Times are changing. I remember when I hated Mac's, Now I own 4 of them.
Windows is a really good for games. But when it's time for work, it's best done on a nice MAC.

[Super Glitcher]

kasperle,
Being a little more respectful & political
about the way you present your opinion
might actually allow a reader to consider
it. This type of approach only shames
the presenter and his/her cause.

The fact that Macintosh is an option for
artists in the ultra-competitive market
we live in only goes to validate it. If it
we're as horrible as you suggest, no one
would be getting work done on it, and
therefor no one would buy it.

Last time I checked the OS X market
share was on fire, so either a lot of
people are making really bad choices
OR it's actually got some value.

Either way you decide to look at it,
find a way to make peace.

We're all on the same ship!

Happy zBrushing.
~sG~

[prosthetix]

Im non PC
actually im perfectly happy with only having Z2 at the moment , as its taking all my time to learn that, so when Z3 lands for the mac (hopefully) i'll be ready for all those lovely new features..

[BANDD]

i´'m mac user
i gotta admit that ya... better learn the Z2 first and then head to the Z3 or 3.1 now.. but there are some really nice tools like actually woking with the alphas right away on the model, the subtools, transpose.. r really nice and since Z2 doesn't have em and it's like candy to a hungry kid... i'm doin Z3.1 on parallel but ofcourse i can't get the best results cuz of the video and ram usage... wchich scuks!!!!!!! plz o plz plz do bring zbrush to mac!!!!!!!!

[TJX]

Mac.

They could give windows machines away for free and I'd still choose a Mac.
Windows just destroys my motivation to be creative. :DHmm, let me see, both PC and Mac Versions of ZBrush use a mouse cursor/window interface. You see the same things in front of you. What? Do you need to be staring at a multi-thousand dollar Apple monitor to motivate your creativity? It's that elitist attitude that pisses me off.

[Super Glitcher]

Its more that you dont take the time to look past your instinctual response. If someone has a deep seeded preference, what on earth neccessitates that its elitism and not based on reasonable working prefs?

Both sides are more guilty of bloodlust than anything else.

[TJX]

And what's so bad about my post? I was just reacting to something clearly elitist sounding. I have not heard a single PC user here complaing about Macs "destroying" his creative motivation. We didn't start this arguement, it's always Mac people who start these kinds of threads as an excuse to teach us poor backward PC folks the error of our ways. If both ZBrush interfaces are the same on either machine, then what's to complain about?

[aurick]

Let's not get personal, folks.

[jthair]

And what's so bad about my post? I was just reacting to something clearly elitist sounding. I have not heard a single PC user here complaing about Macs "destroying" his creative motivation. We didn't start this arguement, it's always Mac people who start these kinds of threads as an excuse to teach us poor backward PC folks the error of our ways. If both ZBrush interfaces are the same on either machine, then what's to complain about?

I think you will find that this thread was started to get an idea of how many Mac owners were using ZBrush compared to PC. I guess to try and find out how much in the minority the Mac users were.
I checked the Apple site and couldn't find a monitor for multi thousands of dollars.

John

[martoonz]

too many mac lovers here jeje

im using mac in my house but in the worlplace we use windows

[rolilli]

Waiting for the Mac version to start using ZBrush :rolleyes:

[Super Glitcher]

TJX - the way I interperet a comment like 'windows kills
my creativity' is not a slam to the OS, just personal pref.
Ideally you can work and be creative on any platform,
limiting yourself to one tool - like I can only build a shelf
if I have a Makita, Dewalt just kills my motivation or
something like that just means that you're very
particular. Artists are a needy, excentric group-
I can testify to this.

I think we should just all agree that whatever
you yourself are using is just fine- and do our best
to increase each others ability and understanding.
Progressive vs. regressive.

Like was said earlier, we shouldn't attribute the failings
of individuals to something as ubiquitous as an OS.
The Mac vs. PC debacle is paralleled only by politics
and religion in grievous, futile bickering.

The house divided falls, something like that?
As people we should be very frugal about drawing lines.

btw. Aurick, whut up! Any news brotha?? ;)

[kasperle]

Talk about touching a raw nerve. Jeez - some of you Mac guys are really sensitive.
Although I may be abrupt and abrassive in my comments and my social skills are that of a rattler snake - I tell it as I see it and comments like "what major movie did one work on" are typical of these types.
(I actually work in the TV and advertising industry and not in the adolescent catering games industry) If we could get into the films industry we would be very happy to do so but that is not practical at the moment for our group.
The opportunity may present itself but the movie industry in Europe is a wee bit different to KALIFORNICATION country and a lot less financial too.

MY MAIN COMMENT was to give advice so that those who may be losing a lot of sleep and work time while waiting for a MAC version could get a PC and start to produce stuff NOW.
So making a solid stand against this MAC religious fervour and all its over the top self engrandisement was in my opinion totally justified and I stand by what I said no matter who tries in vain to make smarty arse comments about me.
If I was Pixologic I would just scrap the entire MAC developemnt and try to make a single and "totally working PC" version. Now that would be a good thing. I also want to remind you that the MAC people are the ones constantly complaining about Pixologics Mac release date and not the PC people who are happily working away which is all I am saying - If you want to use ZB 3.1 you can do it right NOW - on a PC.

[Mr.Storm]

And what's so bad about my post? I was just reacting to something clearly elitist sounding. I have not heard a single PC user here complaing about Macs "destroying" his creative motivation. We didn't start this arguement, it's always Mac people who start these kinds of threads as an excuse to teach us poor backward PC folks the error of our ways. If both ZBrush interfaces are the same on either machine, then what's to complain about?

It's really simple bro. It's about having to buy and run 3rd party software to keep hackers and virues out. For some reason movie fan sites like to try to break in to studios to try to get plates of the new and up and come movie. When had a guy break into our studio through a quake server once. It never ends and it just seems that windows and hacking get along really well.

Peace 2 you.

[TJX]

Peace to you too sir, but I believe it's the Internetz and hijacking that go well together. As long as your connected to the rest of the world, people will attempt to break in. It's the reality of the internet. The reason for getting third party security software is as simple as people locking the doors of their houses - there will always be some thug trying to break in.

[lemonnado]

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=59246

[Lone Deranger]

Doesn't sound like you're happily (http://209.132.96.165/zbc/showpost.php?p=444367&postcount=24) working (http://209.132.96.165/zbc/showpost.php?p=444646&postcount=26). :lol:

(just to remind you ;) )

I manage to work just fine with ZBrush on a Mac whilst you on a PC can't seem to get it to work and blame Pixologic for it. Oh the irony. :lol:


I also want to remind you that the MAC people are the ones constantly complaining about Pixologics Mac release date and not the PC people who are happily working away which is all I am saying

[stoob]

Doesn't sound like you're happily working.

(just to remind you )

I manage to work just fine with ZBrush on a Mac whilst you on a PC can't seem to get it to work and blame Pixologic for it. Oh the irony.

PWNED
:lol: :lol:

sweet... Give them enough rope... they'll hang themselves!

[BANDD]

hye lone deranger, what u use on your mac? parallel, bootcamp, vmfusion... cuz i'm using parallel and i gotta give it 1.4 gigas on the ram which makes the rest of my comp really slow and it's not going fast at all when using zbrush, takes a while to open, big while...

any tips?

[Super Glitcher]

maybe buy more RAM?
I got an 8gig kit for around $250 on my macpro
a couple months ago.

Cruise over to dealram.com and check it out.
You can never have too much + it'll be all the
better when you're running native.

[BANDD]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! o my freakin GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8 gig ram!!!!!!! LOL that's the most i've "heard" from a home comp lol.... guess technology is going up and up... sniff.. damn university why u cost so much... guess i'll chekc it out.. thanks fofr the info

:tu: :tu:

[aurick]

Folks, please take a step back and count to ten. If this thread continues in the manner that it's going in right now, I'll have no choice but to lock it. I do NOT want to do that, so please behave.

Thanks.

[Lone Deranger]

Hi BANND,

what Super Glitcher said! :) (Using Parallels btw).

[Super Glitcher]

Perhaps it might be wise to prune the problem at the source.

[spaceboy412]

its funny how this thread turned out to be mostly what i said it would, i'm surprised the mods even let it get this far. i honestly don't even see why a poll needs a discussion, its binary, which platform do you use, simple as that. getting into the why's and how's always lead to these type of arguments and i'm wondering as to who they benefit, if there is such a thing.
btw when i was a kid i only ate the chocolate out of neopolitan ;)

[Super Glitcher]

ditto on the chocolate, I also cherry-picked
the cookie dough.

[kasperle]

@ Deranger

Thanx for the "reminder" and "hanging oneself" etc.
Your comment is quite correct - I have stated a couple of aspects that are a problem with ZBrush and these problems are real and need to be addressed and if Pixo would have concentrated on fixing the PC proggy first and then developed a MAC verrsion then all this may have been avoided.
There are usually bumps on any development road and that is acceptable but Pixo has done itself no favours with its constant self destructive lack of information and false promises. As the guy said in the other thread about Macs and he is a software developer advisor, Pixo needs to address its internal structure and its PR problems.
In regards to some of the uppity replies I got from a couple of you and the fact that Aurick has stated that he is getting ticked off with the general thread's tone I can only say "SHUT THE THREAD DOWN NOW" - that is kewl by me.
In regards to the smugness that a couple of you have displayed all I can say is that thank god you do not work in our team.
Now if you wish to continue with this stupid personal attack against me go right ahead but I will not see it as I have now stopped taking an interest in this thread. Have a nice day now! Sic!
PS Buy a PC and get to work on ZB 3.1 and use what works and have fun!

[Lone Deranger]

...all I can say is that thank god you do not work in our team.

Oh I agree. :)


Now if you wish to continue with this stupid personal attack against me go right ahead but I will not see it as I have now stopped taking an interest in this thread.

I'm not attacking you kasperle. (Note how my posts, unlike yours, were void of name calling). Sorry if you feel that way. :(


PS Buy a PC and get to work on ZB 3.1 and use what works and have fun!

I told you, I have a Mac which runs ZBrush beautifully. That includes ZB3.1, Maya, LW, and yes.. 3DSMax. And no problems.
Now, to keep things positive and constructive, if you are still unable to get your ZB3 pipeline to work, perhaps I might be able to offer you some assistance? We are after all here to celebrate our beloved ZBrush regardless of platform. :cool:

[Super Glitcher]

Windows doesn't kill my motivation,
but this thread does.

Peace.

**unsubscribe**

[Lone Deranger]

...well said.

Not worth my time anymore. I'm out!



Windows doesn't kill my motivation,
but this thread does.

Peace.

**unsubscribe**

[nebular]

Unite guys!
Youtube link (http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=h4iyksLeo7w)

[acmepixel]

I run ZB3 on the best, fastest, most stable Vista Platform...Mac.

Mac Mac Mac (trail of duck feathers).....

:D