3ds max 2008 - Zbrush 3.1 - 3ds max 2008 Workflow: Maybe The Only Solution?

[CGicore]

Dear ZbrushCentral Community / Art Masters and Authors,

I can see that many of us, including myself and many others are struggling to get this particular issue resolved for quite sometime already, specially with generating displacement maps, bump maps and color maps and import it back into 3dsmax for our characters or any other objects.

Indeed I haven't still yet found a DVD tutorial in the whole www. I've search and search for a decent step by step tutorial and only a few tutorials or they are incomplete or they assume too much from the end user. I haven't found a single tutorial that it would take me from Step A all the way to Step Z (A to Z).

I wonder why?

So, here's an idea, why doesn't any Author come up and produce a walkthrough step by step process DVD in showing this so desperately needed tutorial, as requested by thousands of people, students, artists and pure mortals? I'm sure that this would be a good business and I'm sure I would be the first one in the line to buy it.

If anyone has any comments, please feel free to do so.
Maybe if we all ask for it, someone will eventually do it ?
Thank you.

Sincerely,
CGicore

[Pr0ject]

yeah your right. Ive been searching everywhere for a real thorough tutorial. But maybe you should check out some of the gnomon dvds about 3Ds Max. i seen the meats dvd which tought me alot about ZBrush. IDK just a thought

[Twitchmonkey]

Digital-tutors also has a 3ds Max to Zbrush workflow DVD, but it's certainly not new.

[moris007]

twitchmonkey,

are you sure you're not talking about the maya to zbrush dvd? Never heard of a 3ds max dvd by digital tutors.. maybe i've missed it but i don't think so!

Anyway, yeah it'd be good to have a great tut. on zbrush working with max and vray!

[CGicore]

I can't recall seeing any 3ds max Tut done by DT, since they are more focus on Maya pipeline. Thought, their training series are excellent IMO.
However, wished they had something for 3ds max too.

Lynda training series is not bad at all too.

However, haven't found anything as I described above. I am really surprised that since this was requested by thousands of users and there are no DVD training material in this regard. I would be glad if someone could correct me and tell me that I'm wrong about this, in return, tell us where is this fantastic DVD.

Sincerely,
CGicore

[Twitchmonkey]

I was sure that I saw a Max to Zbrush workflow DVD when I was considering whether to purchase Max or Maya as my traditional modeling program, but I could be mistaken.

Lynda is certainly a great service for finding 3ds Max tutorials, but as you said, I seen anything that would relate to this issue there.

This is certainly a quagmire.

[Pr0ject]

.....

gigity gigity

[Twitchmonkey]

Who else but Quagmire?

[CGicore]

No one? Anyone kind enough to give us the steps? Much appreciated.

[smokebox46and2]

http://www.pixologic.com/zclassroom/registration.php

there's a free video tutorial here on the pixologic website. log in with your zbrushcentral username and password. it's the last video on the page.

here's written documentation for displacement in max

http://www.zbrush.info/docs/index.php/ZBrush_to_3ds_Max

[musca_ro]

I have the same problem as you here. I wached the video from pixologic. It a good video, but still not enough... at least not for me. But you all should check this link:
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/groups/3dsmax_g.html

There are few dvd's about 3ds max, but you should check character and creature design which treats 3ds max and zbrush! I admit that I didn't see those dvd's but I plan to buy them to see if they make thing more clear in this issue.
Hope it helps.

[JAOL]

Have you seen my tutorial about exporting from 3dstudio max- zbrush - 3d studio max?

is a tutorial step by step how you can make all the process.

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=56789

i see a lot of tutorials about this but all put one thing ( modelling, rendering, export normals...).

i took all this things and i explained all.

the tutorials are bored and you have to use a lot of hours to make it. The companies don´t want to make a great tutorial because they didn´t make money. You have to buy more XD.

[musca_ro]

hum... didn't follow that tut, but I will definetely will and give you my feedback. Thanks alot!

[hotknife]

Please be aware that at the moment of writing this post - displacements in 2008 are 'broken' when using the MR displacement slot, before you spend to much time figuring it out. At present I would stick to Max v.9 if you wish to use displacement maps in MR.

[CGicore]

Thank you JAOL, I have already replied to your thread. Again, thank you and I will definitely follow it up once I get back home.

Thanks musca_ro for the link as well. Will check the Russian tut as well for sure and let you guys know my outcome.

Thank you hotknife , however, do you know anything what if I use displacement + Vray??? Not sure if that's the right question as my knowledge in the Render Section is still very limited. Appreciate if you could elaborate a bit further. Thank you. :)

[hotknife]

Believe displacements in Vray is ok in 2008.

If using MR you can still add turbosmooth and add a Displacement modifier on your object which works, but using a disp' in the Mental Ray connection, (displacement slot in the material editor), Tthis causes the object to 'split' when rendered in 2008, autodesk confirmed it was a bug, and are working on it.

This also happens in 3ds max v.9 but you just had to uncheck the 'smoothing' button in the render dialog rollout to solve it....not so the case in 2008, which is a real shame as it trashes any renders using MR.

[CGicore]

That's cool! I've seen some rendering results from other Artists and I must say that Vray quality is way much superior than MR. Ok, I'm not starting a X better than Y here, that's only my own visualy preference. :)

[stevesideas]

I also would love to see a 3dsmax > zbrush >3dsmax > vray training dvd.

I think I actually get up till you import the zbrush model back into 3dsmax (maybe), but after that, the detailing from the displacement map looks terrible.

I have modelled a running shoe and was working on some stitching details around where the cloth section attaches, but no matter what I try, the imported zbrush model and disp map look bad compared to the zbrush version.

[jedi]

i'm sooo freaking new to modeling.. i just got 3dsm and zbrush a few days ago..

Anyways I have modeled a character in 3dsm 08 and eported into zbrush ok.

I added geometry only ... created the normal map. (whatever that is) and exported.

I can only get the .obj to open in 3dsm if I exported from zbrush as sDiv 1 "low" ...anything higher crashed 3dsm. why?

If I can only use the low res....whats the point of using zbrush to enhance ??

I am not concerned with texturing, uv or displacment mapping (whatever that is).... I just want my model back in 3dsm with the geometry I added.. I will texture in 3dsm.

Here is a render of my character in 3dsm...

mad_eye_spore.jpg

thanks in advance for any help.

[mr.grak]

jedi,

you should really consider using displacement maps in 3ds max because they will make your low poly model look like the high poly model without crashing max. you can learn all about these awesome maps by simply searching for "displacement map" in the forum search. also, it's alot easier to texture in zbrush because you don't have to unwrap your uvs. you can if you want, but you dont have to.

you mentioned you were new to this whole modeling thing, maybe you should consider learning about the different maps before you decide not to use them. jus sayin'.

grak

[ArtByBpc]

Not sure if this tutorial helps, but I found it online.

http://www.3dlessons.com/tutorials/Converting-A-Mudbox-Model-To-3DSMax-47969.html

Not sure which version of max that it relates to either..........looking into rendering disp maps with 2008. Would this be of any use to me?

[mr.grak]

I've been playing around with displacement maps from zbrush3.1 in max2k8 and it's only frustrating me. so far, i think you need to make all the displacement maps 32 bit with a res of 4096 x 4096 from the MD2 zscript thingy, and you can't plug them into the mental ray connection dropdown displacement slot on a standard material unless you apply a turbosmooth/mesh smooth modifier to your model, otherwise your model explodes. yay!

also, i'm having trouble with the UVs coming out of ZBrush, cause it seems that they don't quite lineup on the render from max. this is probably due to the 2k maps i used, but it could also be from the AUV button I pressed in the lowest polygon mode of the model. the tutorial told me to (pinup tute), so I did. zbrush's ability to automatically unwrap the UVs troubles me a bit, because the diffuse map came out just fine, but the displacement map didn't. they should be using the same UVs, right?

also, WTF is with the two .tiff displacement maps ZBrush generates? Max can't even read one of them! The +D32.tif map just causes max to popup "internal error, can't read image". The +R32.tif reads fine, but the displacement is off, as in it doesn't line up with the polygons it's displacing. I get misaligned details, like a vein on one polygon doesn't line up when it crosses to another polygon. These maps (disp and diff) are applied to the low poly .obj I exported from Zbrush after I finished sculpting, so the disp. map should be lining up fine, like the diffuse map does. But no, it doesn't. No morph targets were stored.

Someone needs to write an easy to understand workflow from zbrush 3.1 to Max2k8, cause the workflows from ZBrush to other versions of Max don't work for 2008. For example, I found the recommended value of 220 (for the displacement map) to grossly expand my model to what can only be compared to the Stay-puft marshmallow man from Ghostbusters. All the detail is lost, but pulling that value back to around 90 looks closer to the model from zbrush. Maybe the value of 220 works for previous versions of max. And since I'm exporting from the MD2 plugin (in the zscripts dropdown) I shouldn't have to worry about the alpha gain at all.

I've sorted through all the tutorials and step by steps on pixologic and zbrushcentral, to no avail.

I think I'm missing something here, any advice for getting these displacement maps to work? I've seen beautiful renders on here that I can't seem to duplicate.

[kasperle]

I am very sorry that I have to say this but the facts seems to be obvious.
So many problems with Zbrush and the ever increasing frustration with late releases and lacking information makes one seriously doubt the fabric of the Pixologic management.
3DSMAX was and is a great program and the duty of a Pixologic is to bring a product that "WORKS" with its main workflow third party applications.
The fact is that is DOES NOT!!!!
Instead of wasting their time trying to make a MAC based version they should have created a "Perfect" INTEL version first.
Its just a joke to see what is happening and it is a great shame because ZBrush has great potential and is a step forward in the tools that artists need for sure.
Pixologic needs to seriously address these problems as their reputation is already damaged.
Bring out a new update for the Intel market that "WORKS".
A pipeline that is rock solid between all the big 3D progs and then you can start making the Mac version.
Just stupid what is going on and very annoying!

[mr.grak]

It's not pixologics fault at all! They made an awesome program that does amazing things. It's really autodesk's fault for upgrading their program without regard to the other software packages that work with it. The team at pixologic has a heavy weight on their shoulders, building out that wiki that trys to explain zbrush and corresponding pipelines as much as possible. I have absolutely no fingers to point at Pixologic, they've always been helpful and nice. They've done nothing wrong, and they've redefined what customer support is!

In the end, its about how much knowledge you have with the software you are working with. If you are running into problems, like I am, it's probably due to the fact that you don't have a ton of experience doing this (aka "learning"). So puff up your chest and blame others if you want, but it's really user error.

Jus' sayin.

[kasperle]

Needless to say that I do not agree with you and that the problem has been there for a few versions of 3dsmax so I can not see how it is their fault when Pixologic had ample opportunity to adjust their code!
How do you answer this little fact then?

Also there is the fact that I am not the only one running into constant hickups with this program and as far as studying is concerned I have used this ZB for a long time and know it very well.

The statement that they have a great customer relationship is just laughable - just have a look at all the disatisfied people here in the forum over tha past few years. I call a spade a spade and if you want to talk the Pixo people up and make them sound nice that is your right but I and a lot of others know where the fault lies!

Nevertheless the ZB proggy is a great step forward but it has reached a point where it no longer can be safely used in a pipeline workflow without serious expectation of time wastage.

[mr.grak]

just learn the pipeline. quit pointing fingers, seriously. if you knew so much about the programs, then you'd be figuring out the problem and not asking for help, or complaining. but your not, your just telling pixologic how much you think they suck for making an awesome program that you can't get to work for you. so keep blaming pixologic, but we all know your just pressing the wrong buttons.

zbrush can be used "safely" in a workflow, if you know what your doing. case in point: zbrush worked just fine on pirates of the carribbean. hmm...

i figured out those displacement maps, by the way. theres no problem with the zbrush to max pipeline. i had a resolution setting wrong.

"the problem has been there for a few versions of 3dsmax"
- wrong. sorry, but i've had no problem with the pipeline prior to max 2k8. read the tutorials, they explain things clearly. unfortunately, there isn't a clear tute for zbrush to max 2k8... yet.

"The statement that they have a great customer relationship is just laughable - just have a look at all the disatisfied people here in the forum over tha past few years. I call a spade a spade and if you want to talk the Pixo people up and make them sound nice that is your right but I and a lot of others know where the fault lies!"
- this forum is an awesome community that helps each other out alot. just look at the tutorials, the faqs, the wikis, the video posts, the constant stream of inspiration... thats the customer support I'm talking about. i dont see your point at all. i think it's childish that you think you know where the "fault lies". from my perspective, the "fault lies" with people like you, the ones that would rather complain about their problems than solve them. sure, blame the program, but i dont see you doing anything to fix it.

" How do you answer this little fact then?"
- :D

[Mr.Storm]

I've always wondered why they didn't make a plug-in for max maya xsi modo That would let you just import the zbrush file. It could be made to extract the .obj file. Then extract the displacment. Then load it right up for you. You could pick the rez you would like your .obj file to be and the size you would like your displacment map to be. I think the OP's point is "MAKE IT EASY" They made creature creation easyer lets not stop now!!

My 2 cents...:idea:

[velenosangue]

I was playing around with mental ray a bit to work on solutions to some of the problems people are getting, such as the mesh splitting apart when you displace, and I realized something...

Files with 8 bits per channel can't actually have a neutral grey since the RGB color values go from 0 to 255 rather than from 1 to 256. Trying to use an RGB offset of -0.5 in bitmap parameters, will still cause cracks on an unsmoothed model at neutral greys when using Mental Ray displacement.

The Displace modifier also still displaces a little if you use a luminance center of 0.5, but of course doesn't get cracks.

Thus, unless you've got 16 or more bits per channel, and your RGB value for neutral grey is 127.5, 127.5, 127.5, then your RGB offset is not -0.5, and should use the following:

For neutral grey = rgb(127, 127, 127), the RGB offset is 0.498039 (apx. 127/255)
For neutral grey = rgb(128,128,128), the RGB offset is 0.501960 (apx. 128/255)

These are rounded off after 6 decimal places, but that should be more than enough for most purposes.


On a related note, does anyone know a way to get photoshop to show decimal places? :rolleyes:

[U_L.]

velenosangue (http://member.php?u=83578): Now that is a very astute observation.
The Zbrush to 3ds Max Mental Ray render Gods have given you insight.
Many thanks for sharing :)

[kasperle]

Hmmmmmmm!
The forum is NOT pixos customer support now is it?
The aggressive reply you made was unjustified and lame.
If a system requires wikis and hundreds of threads and all sorts of other workarounds then the point I was making is salient.
End of Post.


PS Please do not reply with personal insults either.

[3am_]

Dee best answer will be switch to Maya. that's it!

[ivo d]

i'm pretty much lost, cant get the displacement maps to work, test renders take way to long, so with no idear what the proper workflow is, this is a mission impossible.

Looked at wiki, but it is a tut with max 6.0 ,or 7, and zbrush 2.0 , settings have changed so much that it all just doesnt work, does anyone have a propper workflow for max 08 or 09 ?

I'll pretty much have to go with maya, would be a pain, caus i would have to do my rigging etc in maya to, not what i had planned.

[curiousgorege]

i'm a newbie to max 2008/zbrush... both awesome programs... I've been told that max 2008 breaks zbrush displacement maps... they (Autodesk) are working on it... but I wouldn't hold your breath... cause they will work hard to make Mud Box work well... and try to kill zBrush.

What pixelogic needs to do is write a plugin for max/maya to import zBrush tools directly ... this would solve all the problems... and probably increase market share for them... cause casual 3D users (such as my self) could quickly move between applications... without having to have such a high learning curve....

[blanktarget]

So this has been a huge problem for a lot of people it seems. I'm new to zbrush and made a model in zbrush exported it as OBJ and then did that work around in 3.1 to make my displacement a normal map. So I have those files, I flipped the normal map so its facing the right way...I import it all into max...and I get my model with spikes sticking out of it everywhere instead of the actual displacement I did in zbrush. Is this the issue others are having or am I missing something important here?

I've looked at numerous tutorials on this and somehow I've never gotten this to work. Ever. Its really frustrating me and I'm about to just give up on zbrush all together and try mudbox :(

[cannedmushrooms]

Thought I would point these out for this thread


Using displacement maps in MAYA and MAX
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showpost.php?p=441437&postcount=117
Maya 2008 Displacements
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showpost.php?p=446550&postcount=151

[blanktarget]

Hi Canned, I've been watching your videos. I grabbed that one now and I'll try it out.

[3am_]

So this has been a huge problem for a lot of people it seems. I'm new to zbrush and made a model in zbrush exported it as OBJ and then did that work around in 3.1 to make my displacement a normal map. So I have those files, I flipped the normal map so its facing the right way...I import it all into max...and I get my model with spikes sticking out of it everywhere instead of the actual displacement I did in zbrush. Is this the issue others are having or am I missing something important here?

I've looked at numerous tutorials on this and somehow I've never gotten this to work. Ever. Its really frustrating me and I'm about to just give up on zbrush all together and try mudbox :(Can you just upload your model(base obj + detailed ztl) on rapidshare and post the link here. That sounds obvioulsy so wrong and I might be fixed your problem :cool:

[blanktarget]

I have my own web server, I'll post it there:
http://www.20hitcombo.com/zbrush.html
Hope you can figure this out, and thanks for the hand :)

[3am_]

oh that was quick! mind if i grab a .ztl file as well?

[3am_]

Ok I've opend your supposed-to-be-a-displacement-map

1st off, what's that? wire frames? shouldnt be there and have no idea why it's there and how. Make sure you collapsed your unwrap UVW in max before export to zbrush.

and 2nd of all, displacement map is supposed to be white/grey/black colors.

Are you trying to firgure out how to use normal maps in MAX?

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/3333/zgrab01dt6.jpg

[blanktarget]

haha, well I don't know why those are there. I was trying to export a normal map from zbrush to use in max. I really don't know why there is a checker pattern there. I'll upload the ztl file next, won't hurt any lol. Check the page again and it should be there. This is my first time using zbrush after going through a bunch of tutorials so I won't be surprised if I messed up something a long the way, this was a test before I did anything serious.

[U_L.]

3am_ have you done a Uv Check for your model?
I opened you model in Zbrush 3.1 then did a Uv Check.
I have converted the resulting .psd to .jpg for reduced file size.
The resulting texture shows a lot of over laping Uv's as the red indicates.
I suggest using Blender to unwrap the model the Cannedmushroom way (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v6507080KY8nTThA?c=houseofZbrush).
Remember to make the unwrap Uv's slightly smaller in scale so they do not reach outside the base region.

[blanktarget]

Alright, I'll give that a shot. I just got the video downloaded to see how he does it. I've not used blender before so I'll have to read up a bit on that too. All of this seems pretty complicated right now for setting stuff up! :P

[3am_]

3am_ have you done a Uv Check for your model?
I opened you model in Zbrush 3.1 then did a Uv Check.
Oh that's not mine


blanktarget: I've checked your head obj and what the hell man? If you wanna test, use simple objects like a teapot?!. unwrap it properly (always double check if there is any overlapping verticies). good luck with it! :cool:

[blanktarget]

Well I wanted to play with zbrush and got a little carried away :P

Thanks for pointing this stuff out though. I'll grab blender when I get home from work tonight and give that a shot.

[U_L.]

3am_ .,.. no offence intended.:o
It was my mistake regarding the http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/newreply.php model.
This leaves me wondering how blanktarget (http://member.php/?u=77641)'s project is progressing now that he has Blender.
I also found installing the latest version of Python gives me Collada full export in Blender.
The Collada export allows you to export Blender then import into Unrealed for UT3 map content:)

[blanktarget]

Hey thanks for checking up on this :) I haven't had a chance to work on it again just yet, got really swamped with other projects and stuff. I hope to work on it late tonight or tomorrow :)

[Sinyendil]

hey, theres a thread on this subject of renderings displacements in max
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=52762
ive tried rendering in mentalray and in vray and both work exellent
the tutorials is in spanish, but if you wanna give it a shot and cant read spanish maybe i can ask the author to let me transalte it
good luck

[mradamw]

Hi, i dunno if this might help those who want a zbrush to max pipeline
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=59918

[Kerem]

It seems Zbrush - Max integration looks more easy and fluent than Zbrush/Maya workflow.

[CGicore]

True. :confused: