TV set question

[bicc39]

Ok, she said, ask them, what do you have to lose?
As she told me: "They helped with the camera."
The question is about tv's, Lcd vs Plasma.
Have two sets:
1. Regular 36" TV, Furniture type.
We have subscription to cable company,get
all the cable stations plus subscription stations.
Picture is great, all channels.
2. Few months ago,I bought a second set Toshiba 46"
Lcd HD. Additional cable box. all the hd stations.
Great,except.....

The regular set's picture of the normal nonhd channels
is better than the pictures on the "new kid"

Due to a lot of financial luck will be purchasing over
the next few weeks/months, a set to replace the 36".
Planning on getting at least 52" or better.

Question.
Is there any type or brand of set that will broadcast
normal cable stations at a quality equal to,or better
then the one I am getting rid of.'Have talked to a few
salesman, seen a lot of sets, but my regular is still
in the lead.

Thank you in advance for almost any suggestions.

[spaceboy412]

bic from what i know i don't belive it to be a problem with your original LCD, its all about signal and resolution. i just did a google search and most of the entries detail your problem. i'm just saying that no matter which next HDTV you buy you will probably encounter the same issue(i could be wrong tho).
heres the google search i used
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=non+hd+channels+&btnG=Google+Search

[bicc39]

"SB" that is what they have been telling me

But, one salesman told me that if I bought a plasma, the
blacks would be better, giving the appearance of a better picture.

When they show you the various sets, they either put something
like a bluray movie in or a hd channel.

In one store, got the manager to tune in a nonhd channel
on every set there. Did not see any difference.

Hate the idea of shelling out over 5 thousand for something
worse than I have.

Like when we all search for the ideal program, and come up empty.


Thank you, I owe.


Edit: GREAT SEARCH!!!!

[spaceboy412]

yeah i figure its like trying to use 87octane in a jet engine, you might get it to spin a bit but it will run like $*&%.
i dont know when but i believe there is a standard that is supposed to happen where stations have to broadcast in HD, once that happens you'll be okay. try to imagine what it was like 5yrs ago having an HD when only a few channels broadcast that, not to mention that the US has had inferior image quality for decades, and we are slow to change, HDTV's have been around for a really long time.(visible in Until the end of the world)1991.
I don't have cable and where i live i get no reception at all so whatever TV i see now has to be from the internet. no commercials is great. but i'm out of the loop with stuff(more time for zbrushing tho).
Have to say that i just got the PS3 and the first thing i did was watch Blade Runner The final cut, Blu-Ray is absolutely amazing. sorry a bit off topic.
I'm also having similar frustrations trying to decide on a new motherboard.

oh from wikipedia;"On February 17 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_17), 2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009), the US will terminate all full power station (some smaller local stations have later deadlines) terrestrial analog broadcasting in favor of digital broadcasting, which can be standard-definition (SDTV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDTV)) or HDTV.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdtv#_note-6)"

[Wordsmith]

Bic…….just an anecdote from what I recently went through.



Did my homework, made my decision between Plazma and LCD, bought the TV of my dreams.

Got it home, fired it up and just as you stated, CRAP!!!!!

Then I remembered an article I read when researching the sets…..a very knowledgeable gentleman stated that it is almost always necessary to recalibrate your set at home and NOT use the manufacturer’s settings.

As a skeptic, I found the article, and after some looking, I located his suggested setting for my set model. It was DRASTICALLY different than the manufacturers settings (as an example….manufacturers set blue at say, +20…….this guy had me change it to -40)



Long story short….I followed his recommendations and BAM…my new set was like looking into glass it was so clear.

Now, having said that, I totally agree that your signal provider has a large part in things, but I would definitely suggest trying the settings first, it made a world of difference to mine.



Hope this helps…



Word.

[spaceboy412]

wordsmith, i have heard this as well, the reason being that they know their sets will be in florencent lighted showrooms etc. I guess once we start getting into high-end tv's they expect us to know how to tweak em, what would be nice is to just have a "non store" setting available.

[bicc39]

I always think that one of my better qualities is that
I will confess loudly to being a a-----e.

When I did my searches ( and there were a few) had
always typed such things as Lcd vs plasma, reception, things
of that nature.

"non-hd", though simple,was very effective

Note;Wednesday one of the hd movie stations broadcasted
"Lawrence of Arabia", Restored, Road show version, 3 hours 50 min.
Have seen this more times than I can count. Saw the original road
show when it opened in NY. ( even had the souvenir movie book, gave
it to a museum).
Can quote dialog from the film.
But seeing it on 46 HD in my basement with Bose sound , knocked me on my ass.
Will buy the set, despite obstacles.
Had hoped to have my cake and eat it too.

[Wordsmith]

Bic, I’m pretty sure you can still have your cake ect ect…



I seriously love both my HD channels and my non HD local stuff (although local has a bit less quality).



It made that much of a difference with changing the settings.



I had bought a Panasonic Plasma, so my settings were specific to that make and model, but I had found the correct settings by searching by “brand, model and color settings”.



Spaceboy, you are exactly right, it was all about the way the screen reacts to the current lighting.



Word.

[bicc39]

Disappointing, we watch regular set as we are eating in
the evening and then go downstairs to continue.
We go from the regular set to the lcd. Very often to finish
something we started upstairs. ( CNN, etc)
Bigger screen, better sound, worse picture.
But then, as in the case of "Lawrence" for instance, every
thing works.
Hell with Cnn.

Edit: sorry crossed threads. Would like to underline that the
hd stations are perfect,could not be better.
Now would not adjusting settings take away from hd stations?
Truly love the quality of the hd.

[skullbeast]

Pioneer 50 inch plasma is fantastic. I have had mine for a year and i would highly recommend it. i am a painter by trade and the colors are fantastic. It is the sweetest tv I have ever owned. :tu:

[bicc39]

From the Pioneer ad: standard-definition image enhancement.

How would you say the standard stations (nonhd) look?

[aminuts]

the title of this thread reminded me of a news story that had something about the creators/original makers of plasma tvs were no longer going to do so......can't remember which technology...new or old that they were going to support instead tho.....thought i'd throw a bee in the bonnet for consideration or throwing out or at walls

[bicc39]

i'd throw a bee in the bonnet

Expression dates you:D

[lemonnado]

I dropped cable and Sat and am running on free aerial HDTV. Excellent picture, free and the same advertisings. Oh.. and Netflix ;).
Rainer

[skullbeast]

the standard channels running from a Scientific atlanta hd box provided by time warner are great. because of the widescreen format you will have to set the aspect ratio to what is best for you. what i did was go and do lots of research (5 months worth). it's a big investment, so do the research on each and every model that you are interested in. be sure to compare in person. be sure to view it from 45 degrees off to the side, and from approximately where your couch is. best of luck.

P.S. best buy has a killer warranty on tv's (extra $ of course) if they cant fix it in your house the will cut you a check for the amount of the tv on the spot.

[bicc39]

and Netflix ;) .
God bless them!
(and 1 click copy dvd)

Have Time Warner ( scientific atlanta)
Both sets have the dvr with all the subsciptions.
I have no problem with, basicallly, anything.
Cable bill is about 150 Mo. ( have a discount)
Only fly in the ointment is the quality of the non hd
channels. The regular set is an RCA Home theater with
a 36 in screen purchased years ago. The reception and picture
are all great ( have a sony surround speakers).
But.
Having gotten used to looking at HD on a 46 with Bose, I want 52 or over.
Money for this, is thankfully no problem.
Only problem is that of the nonhd stations,I would accept
even the standards of the old set.
Not to continue to bore you,I will make two statements and if
you disagree, let me know
1. We will agree that LCD or Plasma make really no difference
in the quality of the nonhd stations. They are inferior to that
of a "normal" tv. The only way to improve the quality of the picture is to manipulate the settings and this can result in problems or readjustments for the hd stations.
2. The problems sucks
3. Bicc39 is a boring bastard and a general pain in the ass!

( sorry three statements)

[lemonnado]

You NEED this then:
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/01/ces-2008-keynot.html
Or some fancy eye glasses, those with the monitor build in! But maybe that's a bad idea when you try and chase those girlz in 'those' movies ;).
Rainer

PS:And yes.... all those compression artifacts are making high rez and large scale TV's a major pain. The CRT characteristics of blurring all that stuff nicely together are worth something in the end...

[bicc39]

"L"

You are not far off, saw a 65' lcd at Circuit City for about
8000 and was tempted.
But the viewing distance is a problem.
The room the 46 is in is dedicated to the set and speakers.

Was told to add this.
I am an Alfred Hitch**** fan.
For you younger guys,he was a director.
There is no need to look him up.
a. He is dead.
b. He did not include cg effects.
c. He can't hire you.
d. He did not work with orcs, goblins, monsters, seedy old men.


In other words he is not worth your time.

However, last month, one of the HD channels did a showing of a few
of his films. All hd, commercial free,etc.

One night they showed Vertigo, a movie I have seen many times.
In the room with the sound and the picture, the quality transposed
me back in time to it's issue. For a few minutes I thought I was back
in a theater that showed quality film for the money they charged you
to get in. Unlike the dark crap,with the blaring noise that passes for
theaters now. In this sense, younger people of today do not know they
have been ripped off until they see the dvd and realize that not all movies
were filmed at night.

Wish to thank all for your advice, would go back over and delete my
posts, but someday a set may appear that solves the hd issue.

Hopefull it will be in the next 6 weeks.

[spaceboy412]

bic i'm somewhat offended about the hitch**** thing, i know you jest though.
Rope was a great film, NBNW was great too, oh and Rear window had a big influence on many things,esp the last silent hill game(just to bring it back to the cg end of this all).
i have to say i'm really pissed that Criterion will not release any HD discs in either format till its all over.

[bicc39]

i'm somewhat offended about the hitch**** thing

Small amount of tongue in a lot of cheek.

That makes two people, here, who might have heard of him.:D

Rope was one of the last to come out in video.
What makes this worthwhile ,it was filmed as if it
were a stage play. So that the actors could continue, sets
were made to slowly move while the camera rolled.
Watch the piano!!!!

Based on actual murder case. tThe movie and book "Compulsion"
were based on the same case.
Clarence Darrow defended the accused.
( he is dead too )

[spaceboy412]

as i said i knew you were jesting, as was i.
thanks for that background info on Rope, so many movies i need to research.
For the record i just watched Total Recall on Blu ray and it looks like crap, i think they just upsampled it from DVD.
Sunshine looked great but was an awful movie, dreadful actually.
Bic have you zbrushed on your massive screens? whats that like?

oooo i just read this about the format wars, seems it may finally be over:
http://gizmodo.com/357311/its-official-toshiba-pulling-the-plug-on-hd-dvd

and bic look just next year all analog will be gone so you just have to wait it out.
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/35646

[bicc39]

Bic have you zbrushed on your massive screens?

The way everything is set up makes it impossible.

Perhaps one day we can hook a laptop....

Stuff I make looks bad enough on a small sreen.......

Seeing Sharon Stone kick the Governor around makes the
movie worthwhile.
Blu Ray's are great, but as an actor said:
"how big do you want my pores anyway?".

They work out great for the stores selling the tv's.
Circuit City's Television section constantly shows bluray
of Casino Royale on their sets. They get annoyed when
I ask them to tune in CNN regular station.

[spaceboy412]

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/01/cnn-hd-is-ready-whenever-directv-is/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN_HD
cnn is in hd if you can find it.

[bicc39]

Just got it about two weeks ago, used it as an example.

[Pride]

Have'nt seen you so passonate about something for a while....you were even starting to write louder. :)

[bicc39]

Passionate, no.
Disgusted, perhaps.
My better half suggested the post, few months ago
was looking for a camera, input here was helpul, as
this was.
The older set has never been a problem, is really a great
piece of furniture.
Yet, because of hd I am going to replace it.
It would not hurt as much if I wasn't, in effect, literally
paying a lot, for less. Because of the size and weight cannot
even give the old one away.
Took 4 burly movers to get it here last year.
If I could have solved the nonhd question before, over
52 inch would be here now.

[bicc39]

Excellent news, maybe,great way to end this thread.
Dinner out last evening, stopped at a local PC Richards ( appliance
store next to restaurant).
According to salesman, the company LG will, starting in March, be selling
large screen tvs with a booster to raise the quality of nonhd.
There is hope.
Thank you all again.

[billrobertson42]

But seeing it on 46 HD in my basement with Bose sound , knocked me on my ass.

Party in bicc's basement! Who is bringing the beer? The, uh... you know, movies? :lol:

[aminuts]

movies? Hook up zb and get Pixolator et al to play while we kick back and suck all the beer out of Bicc's new keggerator and watch with chins in laps. (Better cover everything in plastic Bicc!) I'll bring the salsa. :D

[lemonnado]

I'll bring the latest Meats Meier TUT DVD and Chips...

When?

Rainer


PS:Keggerator.... word of the day!

[bicc39]

I will be the one wearing a shawl, sitting in a rocking chair.

Drinking Ovaltine and Ensure.

[Pride]

and...........

[lemonnado]

Bicc's scared now.... Last party was the reason he had to move.... Good times...
:D
Rainer

[bicc39]

Last party was the reason he had to move
:tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:

Actually party was sisters ( bastard), if you remember the story.
Thing worked out well though, thanks to
the difference between long term and short term
capital gain, this will be a great year!!!

[bicc39]

Thanks to the irs and dreamworks am about three weeks from
buying ( new models will be out soon)

Have decided on 52" Lcd with Bose speakers. Not brand

Have done research and visited stores regarding "non hd" stations and
all agree pretty much the same.
If any of you disgagree about normal stations please let me know.
Many thanks

[bicc39]

Once again thank you all for your help.

The winner was a Samsung 52" LN52A650

Bought it yesterday, delivered this week.
The research for this and the running around was some
of the most perplexing things I have ever done.

Right now today, ask me anything about hd tv, will not remember
a thing by Tuesday....

[lemonnado]

Looks like a great choice. Cool that you can also used as monitor for a PC. If the program stinks... load Zbrush :lol:
Rainer

[TuSo]

Dude! How bout a review. You know some pics lol.
I bought this a couple months ago KDL-52XBR5. I love it. Let us know about your choice.

Regards
TuSo

[lemonnado]

Yes Bicc39... cmon... spill the beans!
Rainer

[bicc39]

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=televisions&type=televisions&subtype=lcdtv&model_cd=LN52A650A1FXZA

Set was delivered last Saturday.
All the work, the hours spent on research, trips to the store,time with
the salespeople. Everything was worth it.
I had resigned myself to the idea that the normal nonhd channels would suck.
they dont!!!
Now have a mountain of manuals ( cable, tv, dvd player, Bose sound system)
to read!!!!
Again my thanks for all here who helped me

Note; Played Guns of Navarone and ducked when guns blew up !!!!!!

[lemonnado]

"Guns of Navarone"... good title to begin with 8).
How far is the viewing distance you would recommend?
Cheers
Rainer