Using Zsphere As A Modeler

[lw3d]

I would like to ask a question about using Zsphere as a modeler for export into a true 3d program

I have played around with zsphere, although I know it will take some time to get used to, I find it just makes messy polygonal objects for export. Dont get me wrong, the concept seems great and I am for anything that will make modeling easier but the results it produces are a mess

Can anyone say that zsphere can produce nice exported meshes ready to be exported into a program like Lightwave where in there you can go and model the detail and hopefuly animate it

Some examples of real world characters would be nice, not including that four leged animal that comes with zsphere

[Slosh]

The character in this thread was created with ZSpheres. Saturday Night Fever (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=008528) I imported it into Lightwave, which is where the render you see came from. I have since added bones and done some practice animation with him. For export, using adaptive skinning makes the best meshes. Yes, the uniformed skinning produces very complicated and "messy" meshes, but adaptive works nicely. For this character, I used a resolution of 4, the highest, but if you wanted to do further modeling in Lightwave, I would suggest using a resolution of 2 or 3, which makes a more blocky mesh, but allows for refining. Good luck, and I hope you are able to achieve what you wanted.

[TVeyes]

Although there are some rules you need to follow when modelling with ZSpeheres it is definetely a viable option for a project, i.e make quick general shape of a character then export to Lightwave for refining. Take a look at Tito's website (Aka. lildragon on CGtalk.com) http://www.kar.eyecandystudios.net/
Check out the Faq. http://www.kar.eyecandystudios.net/faq.php

You can also take a look at some models I made with Zspheres, here http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=008315

Without blowing my own horn to much I think they turned out quite good. No overlapping polygons(or mess as you call it) and model consists only of quad sided polygons, which is nice for sub-d's in Lightwave.


ps. If you want the polygons outlined just hit f and then shift+f.

[aurick]

Yes, for export to other programs, the Unified Skin will usually be overkill. However, Adaptive skinning will give you an extremely nice mesh that is ideal for animating.

You will, of course, still need to master the tool. There are certain things that you can do (such as embedding one sphere within another) that will create problems in the mesh. These sorts of things are discussed in the QuickLinks for version 1.51, as well as in the tutorial ZScripts that come with the version.

The bottom line is, as with any modeler, the more you practice the better you will be. But ZSpheres will help you get extremely uniform meshes in record time!

[lw3d]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Take a look at Tito's website (Aka. lildragon on CGtalk.com) http://www.kar.eyecandystudios.net/
Check out the Faq. http://www.kar.eyecandystudios.net/faq.php <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know about his work and I like his character Nemoui ... it is one of the best ... unfortunately, related to this topic, it was not made in zspere at all

When I see a mesh like that come out of zsphere than it has potential

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> You can also take a look at some models I made with Zspheres, here http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=008315

Without blowing my own horn to much I think they turned out quite good. No overlapping polygons(or mess as you call it) and model consists only of quad sided polygons, which is nice for sub-d's in Lightwave
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Although you models being nice I dont see what adantage zsphere has over something like this than LW

In LW an intermiadiate use can create those shapes in ten minutes

[Nemo]

well my guess would be that the zsphere approach is much closer to the artist than fiddling with mathematical curves and wicked UI of some 3d programs - i just draw my zspheres and *puff* i have a model - aint that nice ;)

I definately hate to undergo months of studying huge programs so the zbrush approach is just perfect for me.

That might not be much of a gain for advanced lw-modellers but it certainly is for average users like myself.

And after all - despite the many many abilities ZB offers to export its content - it IS a painting program (and a darn good one ;) )

just my 0.02$

[lw3d]

Ok, I guess from the amount that replied compared to the number of forum members here it is obvious that zsphere has a way to go with respect to modeling for export

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> And after all - despite the many many abilities ZB offers to export its content - it IS a painting program (and a darn good one )<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems to do its job there but look at the way zsphere is being marketed on all the 3d boards ... as a modeler

Is it because zsphere knows photoshop and painter can do the job for 3d artist and it has no chance to find a way into those peoples product line

I think zsphere should concentrate on its painting capabilities for 3d artist by showing what it can do for them until it proves itself as a modeler

Message to Zsphere ...

I am a 3d modeler ... show me what zsphere can do for me with respect to painting. Stop showing me zsphere as a modeler, I do not need it for that ... I want to see its painting capabilities

[rbaumhauer]

You might at least get the name of the product right - it's ZBrush!

And it does work quite well as a modeler for export - there are a number of people on this board who do just that. However, they may all be a bit busy right now, as I haven't seen their names much lately. I believe Ken Brilliant models in Z and exports to LW all the time.

The main point to using ZBrush as a modeler is that it's *different* from a regular modeling app. I've used LW since V1 on the Toaster, and modeling (particularly organic) just never really clicked for me. However, in ZBrush I can knock out a pretty reasonable face model in 30 minutes, and enjoy the whole process - no hunting for points on a cage, no laborious creating of polygons, just literally painting with my Wacom tablet. Closest thing to an intuitive modeling tool I've ever encountered (and I've tried just about all of them).

It may still have some way to go if you must have subD objects - don't know for sure, as I haven't had much time to work with 1.5 yet. But I have successfully exported stuff to LW with it with great results.

You may get more responses if you don't come in acting superior and hostile - while there are a number of "Pros" here, most of the community are hobbyists (it seems to me), and your "I could do that in 10 minutes in LW" attitude is off-putting. Do a search for Ken Brilliant for starters.

[Rafael Hernandez]

Done in Zbrush 1.5 using zspheres. You don't need to export the mesh to lightwave for modeling. You might want to do it if you want to setup the model for animation. It took me about 3 hours to do this head but I'm still learning one of the zbrush masters could probably do it faster. This is what you mean by clean models for export?

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1034263908ceh.jpg

[tlillehoff]

i think if you just want to do paint you might want to look at deep paint 3d. Deep UV does a nice job of UV editing too. And its very integrated with LW too.

[Furious George]

Rather than start the my app is better than yours battle... I'd just like to point out that in the example link lw3d points to... (eyecandystudios). The modeler clearly states that from now on he will be using ZBrush to do his rough mesh and then he'll refine it in 3dsMax.

Just thought that was a bit ironic.

(My two cents).

[lw3d]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I'd just like to point out that in the example link lw3d points to... (eyecandystudios). The modeler clearly states that from now on he will be using ZBrush to do his rough mesh and then he'll refine it in 3dsMax.
Just thought that was a bit ironic.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did not link directly to it, it was an answer to someones comments

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> This is what you mean by clean models for export? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the bottom middle one will have good results with Subds in LW. The one to its right has to much in the mesh

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> You don't need to export the mesh to lightwave for modeling. You might want to do it if you want to setup the model for animation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is my who;e point ... LW, Max, Maya, and Cinema are animation programs ... thats their core

Isnt the whole idea of making characters is bringing them to life and this is where I would like to see an exported Zbrush mesh at work

I am curious why Ken B has not chimed in here because I think he knows LW pretty well

[kelly_b_c]

It seems to me the main focus of ZBrush was origianlly as a painting program first and foremost. It just uses an innovative 3D and 2.5D approach to that end. I think that because of ZBrushes intuitive approach and ease of use some users have seen how it is useful in character creation, even though that was not the programs original intent.

It seems that while your suggestions sound great, they are sort of like saying my ***** driver would be better at opening paint cans if it had a wider blade and a longer handle, when the original intent of the ***** driver was to turn screws.

[lw3d]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> posted October 14, 2002 04:53 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems to me the main focus of ZBrush was origianlly as a painting program first and foremost. It just uses an innovative 3D and 2.5D approach to that end. I think that because of ZBrushes intuitive approach and ease of use some users have seen how it is useful in character creation, even though that was not the programs original intent.
It seems that while your suggestions sound great, they are sort of like saying my ***** driver would be better at opening paint cans if it had a wider blade and a longer handle, when the original intent of the ***** driver was to turn screws.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True

That is why I came here seeing what Zsphere can offer me as a 3dmodeler because I see it flashing all over every 3D site from here to timbukto

Here is a perfect example of the problems Zbrush has for true real time objects

This came from Rafael Hernandez and in Zbrush it looks really nice but when you export it look what happens to the character head and feet

The heart of any character is the head and there just isnt enough time to go and clean this all up

This is with Subds at 1too



null null http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1034642488kjo.jpg

[kelly_b_c]

Ahh, I see. Well, that is just part of the work flow.

Zsphere shape ---> skinned zspheres ---> modify the skin ---> export it the model. That model that you posted from Rafeal would be only partially finished. I don't think that many Zsphere models would be ready for export directly after being skinned. At least I have not been able to create something that I would want to export without doing at least some modification (then again I am no professional modeler and I am still learning the in's and out's of the zsphere).

I think the power of the ZSphere lies in the ability to quickly get a form established. Then use the other modeling abilities of ZBrush to get something that you would want to export.

ZSpheres are just something that you have to experience to fully appreciate.

[aurick]

And for the non-modeling types, you will very soon have a different method available to you for finishing the ZSphere mesh that doesn't require modeling at all. Simply paint the details. :)

Check it out: Displacement Mapping (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=008428)

[lw3d]

aurick,

I would be interested to see what Zbrush can do with what you feel is a proper mesh to export

If you can, can you post an obj file with quads of your choice so I can see how the subd object looks and behaves in Lightwave

[tlillehoff]

as far as that low poly pirple rabbit go...your wondering about the feet and head? The more specific you want the model to be exported to, means you need to build with more polys to define that surface rather than rely on the softwares display smoothing. Once you can more accuractly define your surface in zbrush with adequate polygon resolution it will import into any app with no probs. how your app uses SubDees is not zbrushes problem.

[tlillehoff]

Btw...

id like to split a polygon on a per-poly basis. is there any plans to add a poly select and split tool ?