View Full Version : Run with this Mesh (Starter Mesh) for comics
01-26-08, 05:05 AM
Ok been seeing alot of Comic heros on the pixol forums so I wanted to do something sorta like that for a future lesson in the class.
Problem is I wanted everyone to be sorta on the same page and not get hung up on (This thing won't sculpt right.)
Because we all know its ALL ABOUT THE CANVAS!! so I made this sculptable starter mesh for comics. It has the proportions layed out from an old school comic chick.
So I thought to myself "hmmm" "I bet the pixol peeps would like something like this also.
So here it is!
Of course you are not limited to a comic chick, basically I just wanted a few new people to test this mesh out and see if they can find something wrong with it.
So post your results!!!!
Heres an exsample of what I was thinking as an old school comic chick also.
01-26-08, 05:21 AM
thanks canned! i gotta try this one out!
01-26-08, 06:12 AM
i think i'll give it a shot, just have to figure out who to make....
01-26-08, 07:19 AM
Okay jason i'm going to make U-GO Girl.
DId you intend on the mesh having boots? i barely even noticed they were there.
Also just from my own workflows i think there may be too many polys in the hands, but what do i know right?
01-26-08, 07:57 AM
U go girl huh
U-Go Girl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-Go_Girl), a blue-skinned, redhead, narcoleptic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcolepsy) teleporter who was once romantically linked to Zeitgeist and then to Orphan.
No I'm not that big of a nerd i used Wikipedia;)
Narcoleptic super hero;) Nice
You'll like those polys when it comes down to transposing ;)
So far so good at my end of testing the mesh. But we will see;)
01-26-08, 09:38 AM
You'll like those polys when it comes down to transposing ;)
only if i was going to transpose at this level, which i could do for the body, but the fingers could've been posed at the second subdivision.
as it is right now all those extra polys in the fingers makes it more difficult to sculpt them with the mov brush. also its very strange the way the thumb enters the palm of the hand, should be more distance me thinks.
i'm not trying to argue with you btw but you did say you wanted to know what we thought.
oh and more geometry for the ear, unless you want us to edgeloop it. i'm trying not to change the mesh you gave, although i deleted the boots.
01-27-08, 04:36 PM
Okay here's where i'm at so far, only had a few hours to work on it, my wife had homework:D . this is not how i'd normally make a woman but i'm trying to stay close to Mike Allred's style. It still needs lots of work.
Issues that i'm having involve the poles at the hips/buttocks, the weird flow at the neck and of course the lack of loops/polys at the eye's,ears,mouth. As it is right now its at 289,280 polys and the hands alone account for 126,946 of them, thats nearly half, this is why i said earlier that there were too many polys at the first division, all those extra polys could be more where they are needed.
I have to say its difficult to not oversculpt and attempt to make more realistic and trying to stay within the comic book art.
Hopefully by tomorrow i'll be finished.
01-27-08, 04:59 PM
Ya I agree it does make it harder without the facial details.
I sorta wanted to promote an opened mesh that had no set in stone features.
Hopefully when the activity is done it will show students how usefull having topology in some locations is. But I'm also getting sorta used to not having all the loops and stuff. It does make for a fast startup on a character. Your doing an awsome job space with the material I gave. Heres mine I worked on a little. Went for the whole 90ish comic style with the huge hips that could crush a man. And the wonderfully small head that never matched the body lol. Should be pretty cool. I'm thinking Lady Death maybe.
Should we use Subtools in this space?
01-27-08, 05:13 PM
i have to agree that when i'm starting a sculpt that i dont like to have the edge loops either, they get in the way, but usually add them later.
i guess i was waiting to see what your rules were for this thread/challenge. if its cool with you then i will add the loops just to make my life easier.
and definitly subtools, of course things like gloves/boots and skintight outfits don't really need to be. but hair/eyeballs, weapons etc should be, unless you're wolverine;)
you know my first thought was to do deathstrike, but avoided it cause of the subtool issue, then i thought warlock, but i'd be here for the rest of my life adding that circuitry. hehe.
your model is looking good too, i think the triceps could use just a tad more mass.
man she almost has Art Adams thighs, now those could kill you by Snu Snu, thats for sure.
01-27-08, 05:32 PM
Lets say this we drag in anything we want to the outfit but the base mesh cannot be changed on the comic mesh. Just no outside programs. on the outfit. Must be pure Zbrush.;)
Color not required. We'll go the hail mary make a statue play on this, with material from our library
Snu Snu lol
Have you been reading the latest X-men space (yes I collect comics world now you know)
The art in the newest xmen messiah complex is sweet
01-27-08, 06:56 PM
Hmm, i know for a fact, considering the hands are half of the polys, that on my machine i wont be able to go high enough to do the eyes well enough. So you'll have to let me cheat, i wont do edge loops, but instead cut up the mesh so the hands are say, one level lower than the body, and the head maybe one level higher than the body. Is that acceptable?
Other apps, hahaha who needs them right?
I rarely can afford comics, last i read was BPRD1946, the writing on marvel books is terrible, i'm only making U-GO Girl cause i respect Milligan and Allred.
But i will look into that xmen messiah.
01-27-08, 08:04 PM
Sounds like a plan to me;)
01-27-08, 10:15 PM
okay just for the hell of it i'm attempting to not cut up the mesh (although with the hands that might change).
so what i've done is an abuse of the reproject subd function. normally when you use this you go down one level and it will move your geometry a small bit, even it out, if you go to the lowest level it does it more.
but what i like to do is go to the lowest level and using the move brush really push those vertices into the areas where i need them, the low poly mesh gets really ugly when you do this, but whats cool is you hit reproject and bam your model looks the same but you've moved that topology where you need it, you really can be quite extreme with this.
heres my example, i moved evertying from the sides and top of the head onto the face, i may even move the whole back of the head into the ears considering that her hair will cover that anyway.(the faces look at bit different cause i did somemore sculpting)
i'm running into a problem with sticking a sphere in the eye sockets, because the way Allred draws eyes they are not really fitting around a eyeball, so i may have to distort it a bit.;)
can't wait to see where you're at, also please share more of what you're learning by tweaking it.
its interesting that 59 people downloaded your mesh but only the three of us are even trying to do something it.
01-28-08, 03:13 AM
Dont use a sphere inialize Zbrush and run this scriptThen Divide it a few times. These Spheres are awsome to make stuff with and you wont have any fear that they won't reconstruct sub d at the end.
In fact I prefer them over Zspheres now cause in the end I usual retopo stuff anyway, They have a large change from 1 to 10 in sub D so you can really be creative.
Is the upper Right one in the Picture the result of the Re-project?
01-28-08, 04:46 PM
yes the models on the right are the after reproject and the ones on the left are the before, just wanted you to see how much you can really move it about.
i'm not really sure what you're talking about with this polysphere and how its better than zspheres, especially for making a figure, but i'm just misunderstanding you. Strange thing, when i ran the script(doh just realized its a macro) it did this thing where my screen flickered, i tried it several times and it kept doing it, i've never had that happen in zbrush before, so i think i may stay away.
01-28-08, 06:52 PM
Heres an update Just blocking in the forms now Been working alot so I get a whole 30mins a day it feels to work on her;)
The hair is made from a sphere from that macro
Normal Spheres out of Zbrush have a triangle pole at the end of them, that macro makes a sphere out of quads.
Heres an Exsample
01-28-08, 07:18 PM
" In fact I prefer them over Zspheres now cause in the end I usual retopo stuff anyway"
heres where you confused me you said "zsphere" not zbrush sphere primative. i never use that cause of the poles as you've just said.
want to hear something weird, i used the polysphere that is default and made only 3 edits with the move brush to one side, and no matter what i tried i could not get it to resym, all the tricks didnt help.
01-30-08, 09:17 PM
Well here's where i'm at right now, the only part that i will say is done is the skirt. I'm going to resculpt the gloves, then add slight detailing to the shirt, body, and sculpt the boots and hair. As much as i'm growing to like the face it doesnt really remind me of the way she looks in the book so i'm probably going to change it again which i'm sure will take me some time. i love how i think some projects will be small and quick turn into bigger ones once i begin to obsess.
01-31-08, 03:19 AM
Very sweet Space
I am in paperwork hell at the moment so all i got to do is concept the outfit for lady death.
Everything Black will need to be made into Geometry
Sorry I'm not as fast as I usually am at this
(Wanted Secretary to do Mindless Stuff so Artist can play in Zbrush)
Great model i'd like to see it textured :tu: :tu:
Is there a way to save 'GoodBall' into the Start-up tool palette?
01-31-08, 11:01 AM
Maybe this one will do Snark...
Cool thread. I notice there are two scripts: your original and Roland Kaiser's variation. Do I need both of these? If I use Roland's by itself his buttons appear in the Tool palette but when I push the buttons I get the error message: "ZScript Note: Interface item could not be found." If I use yours by itself and push the button, the screen changes to the ZBrush start up page. But if I return to the workspace I can draw out your cube. If I use them both together your button behaves the same (screen changes but I can return to workspace and draw out cube) but Roland's buttons give that error message. I should also note that each time I push one of Roland's buttons a cube icon appears in the tool palette 'recent tools' area. If I select it and draw it out it has primitive topology with 'poles', not the corrected geometry.
01-31-08, 12:03 PM
Jason, sorry to hear about that, brings up images from Brazil to me. I like the hair on your model, are you going to use retop or extraction for the clothes?
one crit, the hands are still kinda square to me.
01-31-08, 01:03 PM
Snark, no, you do not need Rolands script. My script was made for V2, the behavior in V3 is not intended but with the total lack of support for developers my scripting has completely seized. My scripts work. It's just a hassle that the startup comes up.... Btw... you noticed that the Pixols have offered a 'clean' sphere on that page right?!
Thanks for the response. Yeah, the glitch doesn't bother me. It's just an extra button push. I have to say I haven't seen any spheres produced by any of these scripts. When I push your Cube button, 4 cubes appear immediately in the 'recent tools' part of the Tool palette. They each have a different name: 'Cube3D' , 'Cube3D#1' , 'Skin_PM3D_Cube3D#1' & 'PM3D_Cube3D#1. No spheres. When I push Roland's buttons also no spheres, just polarized primitive cubes. Anyway, the cube obtained from your Cube button is a great cube.
02-01-08, 06:03 AM
wow gone a day and this thread starts hoping
All the clothes will be a retopo thing, to get them to look good. hopefully saturday will be a good day to work and maybe even finish.
I just usually mount the ball under a macro. I only run it once and usually duplicate it into several subtools to make copys that I might use later.
She has these little skulls all over her I will use that to make a starter skull. and also the cape. then retopo the cape.
02-02-08, 04:51 PM
More updates from the slowest modeler alive
Placed a few more elements made 90% of the outfit into meshes.
Still have to refine a few pieces.
Her Buttons were pretty fun to do.
dude it's coming along.. but you gotta make major features stand out.
hips. hips hips
also the hands suck.
i am no better. im just sayin.
02-02-08, 05:19 PM
ya hopefully the pose will help, she has a sweet sword also.
I won't even do much with the hands until I pose, or you will just end up having to redo most of the details when you bend the fingers.
Hey space do me a favor and run transpose master on your girl and see if it works.
Right now I'm seeing it as a close button for Zbrush.
Just moved a few pieces and every freeken time CRASH, Lights Dim, Sirens an Poof. up pops up every pixologic users favorite box
So high tech I even get 2 for the price of 1
02-02-08, 09:21 PM
sorry jason i've been watching the tele, but i'm usually available on skype, anyway, i gave my girl a pose and it worked out with no crash. one thing i did before i started though was to unify all my subtools then undo, just to avoid that append subtool bug, just in case. my model total right now is 1.2mil. i'm hoping to get some work done on the head and hair tonight, that's all thats left. like the way your model is turning out. maybe you should try to pose her with no subtools, then add one at a time and pose, that might help. does it crash on just the original base mesh?
02-02-08, 10:05 PM
I figured it out turns out I used a Zbrush prim as hook for her stockings.
As usual any time you use one of those jacked up pieces of geometry it will either crash explode or it just won't reconstruct.
After I deleted it it posed pretty good using transpose master, as far as a test.
Going to look up some of my older Lady Death books see if i can find some inspiration For a final pose.
Jeez. The hands don't 'suck'. They're 'undeveloped'. This is a work-in-progress. Manners. Manners.
02-03-08, 12:03 PM
snark, i totally agree, how is "suck" constructive, if someone thinks that something needs work they should provide tips or some direction, hence constructive criticism.
Canned, where's her bellybutton?
I particularly like the new armored version of this character, there is a pic on wikipedia.
She's so Lita Ford in the old iteration.
i'm finding it hard to motivate myself this weekend.
02-03-08, 12:30 PM
No worries I am so thick skinned it hurts sometimes. The word sucks only pushes me to show off more.
First the "Ruffed" in pose.
Of course Transpose master is more like Transpose apprentice so I went back to my old way of poseing by combining all my subtools into 1 mesh. and reconstruct Sub D.
Then I realized I should have done the boots after the pose.
Of course I think I broke the record with the most crashes ever in one model sitting just on sunday alone. The Zbrush Gods are not being kind to my workflow. But I will push on;)
lol belly button. Doh ya that would help
02-03-08, 12:57 PM
"my crashes, let me tell you about my crashes....BLAM!" paraphrased from blade runner
hehe.i know you don't like that movie.
i dont know if i'll use transpose master, its a little clumsy cause of the selection issue.
i like your base so far but dont understand why shes hangin off the egde, unless you're doign something underneath that, she might look better sitting on the top rock. or loads of corpses etc.
02-03-08, 12:58 PM
OMG this is an exciting thread! Why didn't I run into this sooner? Is it too late to join in yet? Is there a deadline?!
02-03-08, 01:04 PM
its still open;)
You'll see space after all shes sneaky that way
02-03-08, 01:29 PM
feureau, there's no deadline join in.
02-03-08, 05:45 PM
Ok jees THATS IT! From this day forth Zbrush will Now be called CrashBrush. This is so uber flustrating.
Don't deform before moving. Only move counter clockwise. Make sure the sun is in the western sky before diving mesh. Only hide polygons on your birthday while dressed as a Zebra. Playing with the deformation pallet is like playing russian roulet with a midgit holding a cannon. And I think Your chasing your Zspheres around the canvas more than you are modeling with them.
it's been a month or 2 since I actually sat down and modeled something hard in Zbrush. Now I know why I took a break from it. SO STRESSFUL!
But other than a rant (sorry don't do it too often) I hammered out this this Bed 4 hours later. For a scene prop.
Got to unplug;) for awhile
02-03-08, 06:11 PM
i see where this is headed.
been running into problems trying to come up with a scene myself, i mean she teleports, not sure what to do with that.
02-03-08, 06:35 PM
hmm ya that would be tuff.
Teleporter huh Maybe a spoof of her leaning against the startrek transporter pad control with a (can you come here and help me figure this out look) for the pose.
It would be high level comic nerd humor but hey thats the best kind;)
I can see how stressful this has been and I am sending you something to smooth out the sheets without having to crash. :)
02-03-08, 07:10 PM
nice bed btw.
its funny cause the star trek thing was the first thing i thought of too, haha. not sure about that one though.
02-03-08, 07:48 PM
ya havent divided them yet.
Too scared too. have to wait for the witch doctor to give his blessing before I attempt it.
02-03-08, 08:16 PM
just wanted to post an update, let me know what you think.
you can't see it?
oh right thats cause i just lost it in a crash!
luckily i have a previous version.
02-03-08, 10:38 PM
CM, I had all those crashing problems you mentioned and it made me pull my hair out. I was so pissed off that I bought Vista. (hmm... I know those words but that sentence made no sense) Anyway, it fixed all those surprise crashes. (surprising, but it's true!)
The only problem I kept having is that sometimes when I right-click, 1 in 10000 times the menu would "lock" everything. Keyboard shortcuts would work (except for saving the tool). I think this is a ZB-inherited problem since I experience this in Z2 also.
And one more thing, I'd played with this rig for a bit and this is still really-reallly rough and I think I screwed up the facial composition a LOT, but I just wanted to have something to show.
Yeah, I like girls with very long necks. It probably look unnatural, but they do exist.
02-04-08, 02:59 AM
feur did you happen to go with vista 64bit ?
Also feur check the legs on the model before you get too far there is a pair of boots hid. Go to frame click on polygroups / autogroups and you will see them. Use delHidden to get rid of them if you want.
Space she did not crash, she just telported women are crazy that way;)
Been there lost two like that this weekend space. Let me guess the mid save bug? Where it looks like it saved and then you pray that the model is ok and poof.....nothing there but another crash while you load the file.
02-04-08, 05:11 AM
It's .. um.. feu for short, please. ^^ The extra r made it looks like a complete word. :lol:
Thanks for the heads up, it was hidden well within the mesh. I wouldn't have found out unless I did something weird. :D
At first I went with vista x32 but found that it's a bit too slow, so I reinstall with the x64. ZB performance is about the same as with both version, but the rest of vista is significantly faster.
Ah, yes, the save bug. Especially annoying if you don't use svengali's incremental autosave script. I had that problem too, but not anymore.
Looks like you, space and the others are having fun with this lil project of yours and your mesh. Some nice things happening, I'm liking what I'm seeing pretty sweet. You guys keep up the good work, I'll keep popping back by to have a look. I'm working on to many of my own personal stuff and other projects or I'd think about joining you folks. Keep up the good work you guys! :)
02-04-08, 01:29 PM
actually canned i never have crashes on saving. on working with document layers all the time. but this one was particularly weird but i think i know what its related to. you know that annoying thing they did now when you try to hide part of your mesh and you have other subtools visible and now it jumps to them instead, well it did that and crashed, normally it doesnt. however what ive noticed is that if you click the subtool arrows up or down and cycle through them too fast this will crash, definitily don't add one of those arrows to your interface then it crashes everytime, at least over here.
i'm really bogged down on the head, like i said its okay as it is but i'm obsessing.
feureau, i'm going to say this as nice as possible, i've tried vista and if i was forced to work with only that i would never use a computer again. Also have you taken into account that maybe your previous version of windows had some issues with drivers/settings etc and vista fixed that, what i mean is it might be particular to your machine.
02-04-08, 07:23 PM
Space its an Illustration ;)
The face will be fine this base mesh wasnt designed for skin pores or details anyway.
Just have fun and be creative. I like the face anyway on the last render you had .
Heres my newest thought.
Whats the story here. Why the bed? why the sheet?
Is it to hide something (no not hell boy) But something is going on here!!!
BTW I used downey on those sheets worked great. I was too late to add the freeken fabric softener though!!!
02-04-08, 07:39 PM
I have 32 bit on my laptop and I'm having no issues. In fact Ready Boost using the fastest 4gig Flash Drive I could find took my workable poly count way up. I can set it for 5 gigs or so and ZBrush sees it as RAM. :tu: I've read other are having issues but I'm not having any worth mentioning on either my new PC running XP Pro or this laptop with Vista Home Premium. The only issue in a year was driver vendors dragging their collective feet. Not one problem I can attribute to Vista in the whole year.
Cool thread. If I can find time I might join in next weekend.
02-05-08, 07:41 AM
CM, that reminds me, some people with nVidia cards did have problem with ZB crashing. (Many ATI users don't seem to have problems with crashing) I think reverting to a very old driver solved a lot of the crashing. So, you might wanna check that out. I was still using XP when Z3 came out and after trying practically every available drivers, it only fixed some of the crashing problem. Switching to vista cleared up everything. Yeah, it maybe somekind of dumb luck. But I daresay, vista is not as bad as the mainstream press made it out to be. Although, of course, at least two other alternatives blew it out of the water. :P
Anyway, I haven't got too much time on my hand to do any serious work on this thing, but I just wanna put up an update. At least, just to say, that I'm working on it. :D But I still don't know which comic book hero/ine I'm going for. Maybe a variation of batgirl. Or something nuder. The guys in comic books are just much more cooler than the girls. HOWEVER at ZBC, the girls are much better lookin' than the guys. Does playing too much with ZB causes loneliness? Hmm...
02-05-08, 11:28 AM
here is where i left off a few days ago, i've been looking for a new pc so not much time to zbrush. as you can see they mostly look the same, this is what i mean, i start making microchanges, not microdetails and it drives me crazy, hehe but thats the way i am. still need to fix the eyes, lips, nose, and add eyelashes, and hair of course.
Are the Nivida cards still having problems thinking about getting an 8800gt. Feureau i'll pretend that i didnt hear you say that comic guys are cooler than the girls, (this says sooo much but i won't go there), methinks you've not been reading enough comics.:lol:
02-06-08, 05:51 AM
LOL :D yeah, I don't read a lot of comics and I can prove it. Naming comic heroines on top of my head: Wonder Woman, Batgirl, Supergirl, Storm, and those two x-men chicks who can go thru wall and suck other people's power... That's all I can think of right now. :lol: :rolleyes:
Anyway, I don't know if they finally fixed the problem with nvidia card thing. Although ZB won't benefit from powerful graphics card like the 8800 since it processes its graphics via the CPU. Bottom line, I'd still say if you're going with a new rig, get one with vista to ensure crash avoidance. Or, maybe they'd release an updated windows version with the impending release of the mac version later this month. Or just, get a mac altogether.
Anyway, Progress report:
I can't seem to make ears look right, and my sculpting often leaves "scratch marks" on the smooth surfaces. I blame it on the smooth brush. I have to increase the alpha bias to reduce it's causing some streak lines on the brush edges and I forget to increase the alpha bias until it's too late. I wish there's a way to set the default values for many of ZB brush (and other) settings.
I went up to 2 HD levels to get the poly density I need on the head. But ears just never look right on my sculpts. I don't know why.
02-06-08, 05:54 PM
Just an update. Been working on the arms. Some muscle blockings for smoothing later on. Why do comic book heroins have such big boobs? They'd just got in the way during a fight. Unless it's machine gun jubblies.
02-06-08, 06:15 PM
I know you might say "um wouldn't that make them top heavy right?"
Yes Yes it would
02-06-08, 11:17 PM
That's their real super power. The bigger they are the more gaga their sworn enemy becomes then they wham em with whatever their secondary super power is.
02-07-08, 04:30 AM
I suppose, for balance, usually the one with big jubblies has big booties to boot so they won't be top heavy. :confused: :lol:
It is an interesting thought that some geeks would turn into evil mad scientists just to meet "girls with great big tits" as the pythons would put it. . . . Sometimes I think I'm in the wrong line of work. :rolleyes: :lol:
Here's another update. I manage to get a bit of work done today. Finished blocking the muscles and all. I hope she'd turn out muscular without becoming the incredible hulk. Strangely, the thigh looks a bit too big in this cap, but I don't think it's actually that big on the model.....
Isometric view is weird when seen from above, heres a persp view of the same:
02-07-08, 07:11 AM
Another update. There's something wrong with this creature's proportions. It becomes quite weird after I elongated the neck, further weirdifying the thing.
02-07-08, 07:18 AM
Well thank you for the mesh. The thread piqued my interest. So after 11yrs or so of owning Zbrush I thought it would be a good exercise to actually finish something in this programme before I give it away. I have never used ZBrush3 or 3.1, basically because the materials seem odd, the lighting peculiar, and models look completely different in any light, or angle one might choose. Its OK for monsters, but disheartening for realism.
The mesh seems fine:)
Why I ask, doesn't the programme come with different cursers for SUB and ADD?
This will be my first and last completed model, even though I have never bothered to learn 3.1, textures etc. So literally back from the near dead I begin here. So far I am three-quarters of the way to finishing the face. The expression will change depending on the pose I will create. The face will actually change to a more angular cartoon look (slightly).
02-07-08, 01:08 PM
feu I think the neck needs to be just a tad shorter along with the arms. (start there)
Atom Nice piece. Looks like the face turned out good. Wanted to see if the mesh would hole up and it looks like it did.
Sorry to hear about your retirement. You should stick with it looks like you have a nack for it.
I have to wait for this weekend before I get to work on mine.
Unless i find a role of duct tape large enough to handle a 1/2 dozen peeps that are always asking for stuff done.
Or a used Traq. Gun on Ebay might come in handy
02-07-08, 03:07 PM
Hey, ed, sorry to hear you're giving away your Zs. If not for the little things in ZB, I think the community built around it alone should be enough make the program a keeper. This place is a very fun place to hang out.
I'd say yeah, a monster is always a lot easier to make not only in ZB but in practically every sense because you can't look at a monster and go, his eyes're too big or what kind of tail is that? While on humanoids people would go, "that's a strange lookin' breast" in a snap.
I superimposed my sculpt to the "master plan" and I find that the arms and legs proportion are actually good. Good being a standard US comic book heroine proportion with short torso and long limbs. However, I think I elongated the neck too much to make it a bit unnatural. But as I said, they do exist! Have you seen Rancy Pausch' Last Lecture (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo)? Aside from an excellent lecture that I recommend EVERYONE to watch, his wife is a very beautiful lady with very long neck. Perhaps its the squared shoulder that makes this mesh a bit strangey lookin'. . . Well, I got till weekend to play catch up.
02-08-08, 08:27 AM
Mr Mushrooms yes it appears to be a great mesh to model on....no edgeloops. I thank you again for this thread and mesh. A pity there aren't more takers.
Yes the community is good, but it is not the same as the early days feureau.
Zbrush has crashed five times on me.......I lost a couple of hours of modelling (most of it on hair) tools keep changing on me etc. The hair 3 different approaches, all were looking good too...... urrrk!
So I just decided to roughly block in some body shapes.......and changed the face a little (which still needs finishing)
@ ed_the_atom You should keep Zbrush and use all the great things it has got like subtools transpose retopo etc and then render in Mental Ray or Vray or Carrara or.........:cool:
I was just getting used to Z2 when......the goodies far out weigh the baddies as long as you remember to SAVE A LOT!!!!!!
As Diana Ross says "Think it oh whoa ver....wee oooh :)
02-10-08, 05:07 AM
Hi Pride:) Well if I could get sub tools to work...... and if transpose could work with half a body without the ensuing mess (works well with limbs though) and I had about 300yrs of life left I would probably not give it away. As it stands I'm begining to doubt ever finishing this model to my satisfaction.
With this image I'm just experimenting to see what the model might look like with hair (she looks better the bigger she is).
The body in this image is just me playing about (nothing really finished) muscles will be toned down and I will go with a more sexy look alround.
02-10-08, 05:36 AM
Well just to show that I have been working still on this and about 1000000 other things, (this being my favorite).
Heres an update
Here is my finished sculpt
Now that I'm done piddleing around around in Zbrush with my fingernails half chewed off and my brain about ready to give out.
I can now sit back and relax and start the digital paint process that goes beyond this challenge.
So heres a small preview more to come later of the composition. So I still deem this a WIP "savy"
And now that I think about it I totally forgot about the background so I guess I am Zbrush bound for that also
02-10-08, 11:53 PM
Hi Pride:) Well if I could get sub tools to work...... and if transpose could work with half a body without the ensuing mess (works well with limbs though) and I had about 300yrs of life left I would probably not give it away. As it stands I'm begining to doubt ever finishing this model to my satisfaction.
I don't think I've had any problem with subtools and transpose... but I totally feel you with the time it take to do a job done. I'm not sure why, but it seems everyone else can do an artwork quite quickly while I totally take a lot of time to just do one work. . . .
02-12-08, 02:32 AM
Looking good Canned.... I kinda like the style:tu:
feureau, Don't believe all the speed stories.....sure anyone can quickly model a face/figure, I know I can, but to achieve a high artistic/technical level then with all the details, proportions, nuances etc, not to mention accessories, textures posing, lighting etc. we all grow old;) .
As for subtools etc....... well shame on me I forgot all about the preferences menu and was only (supposedly) running on 256meg of ram and other low settings. Still pushing it up to 1600meg didn't give me a higher poly tool, but let me play with extrude.
Here is an update on this comic model. After playing with extrude, subtools and stuff I gave up on them.... they all looked too false... and subtools... well I couldn't find an option to work on Subtool 0 (my female model) so I gave up. So now I am modelling everything on the model itself.
At this point I was looking at a super comic chick that resides in my mind, but in parallel I will do an updated sexy state of the art type female comic character as well.
All done without reference...well apart from the odd nude female I have seen...so forgive the anatomical mistakes:(
Well here is where I'm upto in the head area.......needless to say I don't like it much, but what the hell.
02-12-08, 06:50 AM
well i'm nearly done with my main model after a week of slacking off. however i'm running into various issues with transpose master, if i make a mesh thats too high i get banding, if i make it too low the subtools don't line up, if i make it just in the middle the masking is too soft or hard, maybe i should've made goldilocks. well its definitly been a learning experience so far. i'll post when i can accept the outcome of this trial and error. I'm also trying to add more elements so we'll see how long that takes, hehe.
ed, its looking good, she reminds me of someone but i can't place it. also her face reminds me of that old movie called mephisto, the way he looks with the makeup on, kinda weird.
canned i like the way it is, hopefully you'll be playing with the lighting a bit more, its so dark right now, but thats just to me.
02-12-08, 08:44 PM
Ya defiantly changing the lighting.
But I do that in Photoshop.
Especially since mat cap materials cannot be lit within pixologic.
That transpose master is a lost cause space. I had huge issues with it.
Basically most of the meshes would turn out half sub-divided half not.
Just combine your tools first then pose, Then Sculpt.
Heres a thumbnail on where I am headed with the piece.
And still havent decided on the crop yet.
02-12-08, 09:24 PM
yeah, i'm considering reattaching the subtools and then doing reproject etc. instead. trying to figure out which is going to be more labor intensive.
nice change on the background and i dig the rocky base. if you allow me more critiques i'd say now things need to be reflecting more of that orangish color(of course you'll probably be doing that anyway). for my own tastes i'm not fond of the composition but i'm personally fond of vertical lines and 3/4 view. this head on shot though is very stanley kubrick so i'll give it a thumbs up! :tu:
going crazy trying to wrap my brain around motherboards etc for my new system.hehe.
02-13-08, 12:57 AM
Hey Jason. Nice sculpt. I realy like the detail in the body, and the proportions are spot on. The face however looks kinda wierd. The proportions in the face seem kinda off. The eyes are too wide, and I think the lips should be a lot fuller. The nose should also be a tad wider. Anyway other than that it's nice.
Id really like to see this one go into maya with some nice SSS skin, and some nice cloth shaders. I think you could even go close to photoreal if you find the time to do so, but ya I know you're a busy man, with teaching and all.
02-13-08, 03:54 AM
Thanks Jesse and space
Ya Jesse thats what it was thanks because that face has been bothering me for awhile it was the eyes and lips. Hate big noses on comic characters so I left that alone. I'll post it later. (I have to work on eye movement within the piece because right now I have non.
Heres the rocks
which rocked by the way to make.;)
Projection master and texture masking to make them
02-13-08, 09:56 AM
Working on eye movement with some DOF items within the composition.
Fixed the face some also.
I still havent uped my DPI for the final details but so far so good.
02-14-08, 07:19 AM
Good update Canned:cool:
Just mucking about with this. Tried a little bit of transpose to see how I would go. Still a lot of fixes to do. You gotta love that flatten brush.
Well to date here it is......
02-19-08, 03:21 AM
Here are some REJECTS from this mesh.
Firstly they were all experiments and never finished. Played with ideas in poly paint. Experimented with different head sizes etc.
Two were nowhere near dynamic enough.
Transpose (the way I used it destroyed the mesh eg. hands, arms, head), plus any symmetry was lost (including that posing type one). So modelled with no symmetry (which had its own separate problems). I shall perservere and finish a comic character:rolleyes: .
Sebcesoir's Skinwax material used :tu:
02-20-08, 04:35 AM
MMMM the usual.... as soon as I enter a thread it dies. Ahh paranoia, don't ya just love it;) .
Well moving right along...
I figured out transpose (to some extent) I still do not have full poseable symmetry in most notably the arms and feet (I haven't tried the hands) No biggy though. So here is the latest attempt to model something. I will retain this pose and see how I go.
I had a quick look at this, but nope...perspective is a bugger.
For the post below of Canned...... just kidding and I will try Transpose again as you mention. Thanks
02-20-08, 05:44 AM
Not dead just facing enough paperwork and stuff to bury a small migit up to his neck. So ya Keep up the work. I can see by your poseing that you might wanna try poseing at a very low level of geometry and then go to the highest.
That way is doesnt distort.
02-20-08, 06:20 AM
Ed , i'm not finished as well so its not dead, i've just been spending all my time researching my new pc components, hopefully i'll be able to update soon.
i like the new pose very much, and also your rejected models weren't bad either.
02-20-08, 07:20 AM
This thread is totally not dead.
Although I'm low on updates, I'm still in. I just got a little sidetracked by a little thing called life. Why can't I get trapped in a dungeon or something with only ZBrush for a companion?!
Anyway, Spaceboy412, why don't you get a mac? They did the component research and it runs vista the fastest. (just in case ZMac got delayed again)
02-20-08, 07:55 AM
feureau, sigh, mac? please i'm trying not to barf, vista, blargh!!!
but hey, to each their own right! maybe if i wanted all decisions made for me.
02-27-08, 12:25 AM
Hi peoples. Thanks Spaceboy.
Thread dead.... thankfully no, by all accounts. I have thoroughly enjoyed watching you lot working your way through the challenge. I keep looking for updates. I also have enjoyed finally the Zbrush process. I have learnt alot. Thanks.
Well I still haven't decided on a final pose:rolleyes: . As for transpose I have basically mastered it at any subdivisional level except subdiv 1. The only problems I have found are extreme poses; turning heads to one side (this causes me to use the posable symmetry on heads, however if the body is not to extremely posed I get normal symmetry...if that makes sense) and once I have turned the head it is like it is on another layer.
I shall post some trial posing I have rejected for various reasons....
The model sitting was meant to have her arm down with her hand in her lap, this was just an arty farty experiment with a rejected model.....
Sorry to bore:( with text and more rejects.
Nope. I give up. I have a computer littered with almost ran models (rejects) for one reason or another. Unless monsters etc are your thing its easy to model etc, but everything takes too long. I'm going back to traditional mediums. I'm selling.
HD CG ADDICT
02-28-08, 08:13 PM
i dont know if any of you guys already know about this web site http://www.comicvine.com/characters/but its a realy good resource for all things comic book related.
there are literaly thousands of pictures of practicaly all comic book charactes ever draw.
hope it helps;)
nice work on this thread buy the way.
:cannedmushrooms: is your character based on lady death? as its a good likeness
02-29-08, 03:51 PM
Decided to take up the challenge on monday I think it was. Unfortunately I've hit the point at which 512 RAM makes it very tedious to continue. I'll have a better computer setup hopefully soon enough.
I'm not to fond of my results up to this point, but oh well.
Here's the reference:
It's a composit of Dangergirl wearing Fairchild's head.
02-29-08, 05:27 PM
O ya love Danger Girl;)
Great job with only 512 of ram (thats so low)
Yes the figure I made was lady death. A great comic but Steven Hughes was the true genius behind her style.
Unfortuntly as an artist he his no longer with us. But I still remember his art;)
02-29-08, 09:54 PM
Thanks. Maybe I'll try and tweak this one just a little bit more and repose it. I was kindof in a hurry to get it over with but I think I should take my time with it for a little while.
Here I've combined a two different materials in photoshop with a little tweaking to try and get a dot shaded comic book affect.
03-07-08, 05:57 AM
here's another one that was discarded.....
If I still have this programme for a week or two I will finish a character:rolleyes: :lol:
03-18-08, 04:33 PM
ugo.jpg well after finally working out most of my PC quirks (generic router), i was able to get back to this project, i'd say i'm 95% done with the sculpting, i may add a little more detail to the hair, not sure if i'll color it. also need to change some major proportion issues once i have it in Transpose Master. I'm not sure how far i'll go, i'm itching to get back to some personal projects that i put on hold.
The eyelashes look all messed up do to the best render AA settings, i cannot seem to get them to look right, i think i may need to render them out separate and blur the aliasing by hand next time.
03-19-08, 09:22 AM
Spaceboy: Love the model, the forms all seem to work together very. One of the better girl sculpts I've seen in a while, hope to see more soon :tu:
03-19-08, 09:31 AM
great model. some objection though :
- the ears a bit too big and not so much worked on
- the eyelids ! close them up a bit - in a more feminine way
women tend to look from under them - this girl is half scared :lol:
03-19-08, 09:46 AM
polyhertz, thank you, thats nice to hear
cojo, i have to disagree partially about the ear size, it is lined up properly according to established proportions, overall though the whole model is underdeveloped, as you say, mostly cause i was still trying to retain a somewhat comic book feel, not to mention that there is a short amount of polys in the ear area due to the base mesh.
also if you read the comic with her character she generally goes from outraged to narcoleptic, considering that i didnt want her sleeping, the eyes stay open. I've never been into that bedroom eyes thing you're talking about anyway, let the marilyn monroe fans have their way, i'll have mine.
as i said in an earlier post this is generally not how i would do a woman but i've tried to emulate Allreds drawings up to a certain point and filled in the rest with my own tastes.
03-19-08, 09:53 AM
Well you don't have to give her bedroom eyes, but they should look a bit more normal. Right now they are literally bulging out of her head. You'll realize this when it comes time to texture. The ears are too big for a woman, they are placed on the head right though.
You can stick to your reference art, but sometimes you have to adjust models a bit, because what looks great on paper does not always translate well into 3-D.
03-19-08, 09:58 AM
Looking very nice!
The problem with doing individual eyelashes in ZBrush is that unless you render with really soft shadows with an aperture of 90+ for the lights, then you get dark shadows even with hair/eyelashes that are only 1-2 pixols thick.
One thing you could do for the eyelashes is to do it like any other modeler would. Make a polygon strip for them then map the eyelashes onto them. But the trick is to make the background transparent. ZBrush sees 100% black as transparent. So you could make the background of the eyelashes color maop 100% black, then the eyelashes themselves could be 95% black which would show up. I hope this doesn't sound confusing. :)
This wouldn't solve the shadow rendering issue I mentioned, but it might help when editing the eyelashes if needed.
03-19-08, 10:05 AM
okay i'm not going to spend my time defending decisions that i consciously made, its a matter of personal taste and i have reasons for what i've done or not done, i've had a similar argument with my good friend Fidel.
i don't know where in the world anyone else lives but where i'm at there are all kinds of people ranging from amazingly beautiful to whats in the water mutations, i choose to model somewhere inbetween.
i would say prove to me that women only have small ears and only have half closed eyes. perhaps that is generally accepted as "beautiful" but as i said i'm doing what i find attractive, i happen to like tori amos's crazy ears, and evangeline lillys buck teeth, and claire danes overly opened eyes, and chiaki kuriyamas amazing nose, i could go on etc. of course someone with all those features togethe would look freakish but no different than what i see at the local food mart.
03-19-08, 10:10 AM
Kracken, thanks for the tip, i had thought of doing the poly strip but i've never much liked the idea of it, even if it looks better, it just seems flat to me. I have all kinds of crazy restrictions i put on myself, the lighting tips might help though. otherwise i think i'll just render them out separtely rather large and composite them in, this pic was just an update not a finished illio.
i've not had much problems editing the lashes, i love using lasso with masking and the move brush, makes it all easy, the unfortunate thing is i had some really great looking eyelashes but lost them in a crash, so these were done halfheartly... but i know the next time i do them what to do and not what to do. its all about learning for me.
btw i used to love the kracken from clash of the titans, i had that toy forever until his arms disappeared one by one.
That there is a right fine model. I like everything about her. I guess the propotion issue you're having is in the hands and foot length? Is that right? Personally, I think it's minimal and may not even warrant a change. Still, go for it if ya want.
Adore the face/hair.
03-19-08, 12:20 PM
On spaceboy's Ugo-girl. I like it. In fact, I think it's definietly one of the better female sculpts on the site. It's wonderfully modeled and very believable. On the eyes and ears, yeah, they're probably not idealisticly proportioned and shaped. But idealistic proportions are usually very unbelievable and somewhat boring because they are ideals and not REALITY! The only problem I see with the eyes would be that you may have difficulty rigging them to close if you planned on doing so in another package. I emphasize MAY becasue you may have trouble or you very well may not. And since it doesn't seem as though you had any plans on doing a full on animation with this project, I don't even see why that would even be an issue. I think the real issue people are having is the fact that you have a very expressive face, while the rest of the body is in a very neutral and unexpressive pose. I think the bulging eyes will bring a good pose together quite nicely if you chose to do so.
On Kraken's suggestion about the eyelashes. I've heard and seen alot of other modelers use this approach. What I have a hard time with is that Maya doesn't seem to want to let me make things 100% transparent. And after countless hours I finally found a way only to find that the completely transparent portions STILL cast shadows! (stoopid MentalRay):cry: If anyone could shed some light I'd be much obliged. Does 3DS Max have the same issue?
03-19-08, 12:35 PM
teyon, thank you, and yes those were a few of the areas that are bothering me, i'm torn with the gloves because as with real gloves they have about 1/2 inch of fabric that extends from the tips of the fingers and thats throwing me off proportionally.
J lizzle, thank you for 'getting it'. i realize that her pose is static, i do intend on posing it, i just have been waiting until i'm sure i'm done with sculpting before i attempt that. and no i have no intention of rigging etc. as it stands now i never intend on ever using another 3d app other than zbrush again.
spaceboy412 I think she is great and has plenty of character. Im asume that the current base mesh has very good edge flow, she is so smooth and well modeled.
03-19-08, 01:11 PM
tez, she has NO edge flow,hehe, goto page one of this thread and download jason's model you'll see. that was his point, for us to see what we could do with that mesh.
03-19-08, 04:51 PM
And a freekin nice job you did on that space.
Wow cant believe you made that from the starter mesh.
So now after you got all the way to the end stage, and got a great sculpt. What would be like a couple things you might change.
Ear loops= This can still be added and wont hinder creativity.
Any issues with the soft bending areas? knees elbows and such?
I'm just seperating out my levels of difficuly for lessons.
The grand question "to achieve a good sculpt one needs the following"
In Zbrush 2 I would have said Good Topology.
In 3.1 Im starting to say a fast machine with high ram and if your happy with the end scupt then break out the topology.
I actually find it alot easyier now without the topology because you can move ALOT of vertices at once at lower levels. And you can change your design very fast without worry of aligning the mouth and eyes;)
03-20-08, 07:00 AM
thanks jason, it was nice of you to start this thread, i never thought i'd do a comic book character again.
so far while posing, i'm getting major distortion in the knees but that's not a big deal. The only thing i'd change is what i said at the beginning, the hands, there are just too many polys.
I find that yes with z3 it really is about "divide and conquor", however making all the polys the same size at the lowest level is paramount.
I'm of the opinon as well that topology is not so important at the lower stages and can become cumbersome.
the model right now is over 5mil polys but 2.5 of that is in the hair alone(not shown in my above picture) and the head is about 1.2mil polys.
I'll try to post my posed model today or tomorrow.
03-20-08, 01:12 PM
well taking a break from transpose, its tiring, but i'm learning its quirks.
i quickly made this base, half of it was by accident in PM, but thanks to that i learned something as well. overall i'd say my finished image is going to be far from what i planned, mostly because i had thought of doing a comic cover type image with multiple characters, i may still do that at some point.
i watched 2001 again yesterday and was struck by the amount of ribbing in the design and thought considering that ugo girl's outfit is inspired by the 60's i'd try to incorporate that a little.
Oh and now i changed my monitor to its native setting and am seeing all my past models are looking rather wide, hehe.
03-22-08, 06:05 AM
Well I tried placing eyes in this by way of subtools:rolleyes: No luck. All I get is one big sphere hiding my entire model. Scaling the thing only gives me a small model. Enlarge the model and back to a bloody great sphere.
What the hell am I doing wrong?
Any answers before my Zbrush is sold tomorrow? Be appreciated cos its bugging me.
A model without eyes using the original mesh posted here. Bit of a crap model, painted the eyes in quickly...
03-22-08, 11:02 AM
ed, i think it looks good as it is but i think you mightve just missed a step when doing the eyes.
1. append a sphere, yes it will be huge, now make sure that you have the sphere selected in your subtool palette, hit unify, then undo(appending a subtool and doing a deformation immediately afterwards results in a crash, this will fix that), now your sphrere is still huge, you can either use the size deformation slider, or use Transpose, which will be more intuitive and allow you to place it in the correct position.
2. when done, clone the eye subtool, then append it to your model. select it, and hit mirror on x axis. if it gives you a warning about subd levels, goto your highest level and delete lower. if you wish to regain your levels after that you will need to enable uvs and reconstruct subd's.
i think maybe initally you didnt select the subtool when doing your scaling, but had selected your model, or you didnt append but did an insert mesh. hard to say.
03-22-08, 09:16 PM
heres the model right out of transpose master, i need to make all the fine adjustments now that i've changed it, and need to resculpt some certain areas.ZBrush Document.jpg
03-24-08, 05:15 AM
Spaceboy good looking model there:cool:
And, a big thanks for the info on placing eyes. For the first time in 9 odd years I have finally got some peepers in my model. Cheers.
Here is the result (still some work needed around the eyes, and elsewhere).....
Its been a week since ed_the_atom sold his ZBrush and about now he will be getting withdrawal symptoms............I hear there is a demo version available. :)
04-04-08, 06:51 AM
Great looking model, spaceboy412!
I really like the hair and posing.
04-06-08, 01:17 AM
Well Pride :D . ....I won't miss ZBrush now that it is sold. I only ever played with it. Using it was something to do when I felt bored. I never finished anything. I'm more into 2D traditional mediums. I never really had the time to become serious with it. However had I been paid to use it........
Who knows I may one day download the demo.
Been a bit of fun.
04-06-08, 05:58 AM
well i decided to try out compositing for the first time, so please excuse the low rez, it is just a test, i never did go back and finish sculpting after i had posed it, i'm not sure if i want to spend much more time on this, but who knows. I was trying to achieve a similar look to how i paint, its not exactly dead on but its close and it was neat to try out some other stuff. learned a lot about compositing an image together, want to say thanks to marsyas for posting his render layers it helped me feel more confident and helped with selection masking.
i had made a wall behind her but forgot to render it out, sigh, maybe next time.
thanks again jason for starting all this
04-06-08, 07:12 AM
Nicely done, spaceboy412!
I've wanted to do stuff with outlines and more stylized materials like you've done here. I like the colorful transitions in her flesh. And her expression pops out nicely with color. :tu:
04-06-08, 08:28 AM
Like the outline shader you got on her.
She turned out really good.
Maybe blur the background a little and it would seperate her from the foreground;)
I almost want to make a weapons and accessories challenge but I really havent had much free time lately.
Hi guys...better late than never, I hope? Spaceboy just turned me on to this thread earlier today. I have a few comments, if no one objects.
feurer: I am running ZBrush on Vista 32, with nVidia card. I love it and rarely ever have problems.
ed_the_atom: your style has always been so distinct...I recognize it anywhere. As for spaceboy's comment that she reminds him of somone, my thought is Kim Basinger on most of your postings of this character, although a couple of them remind me of Jennifer Coolidge (the more voluptuous poses you made without hair).
spaceboy: I'm so glad to see you posting something. Everyone, he is a brilliant modeler that has been holding out on us for some time. I've had the priviledge of seeing some of his work and having his help on projects of mine. I only wish I had half the talent that he has. I like that his females all not cookie cutter and follow along more with real life women. I have a couple of his models, male and female, that look more like the typical CG humans. He does a great job on those as well. Anyway, kudos on U-go-girl, or whatever her name is.
I won't be adding anything to this thread myself. I've never been into comics and don't know any characters other than Wonder Woman and some of the X-Men chicks. Anyway, it's April and it seems way too late to join in.
Ed: sorry to hear you left ZBrush behind. I do agree with you about the glory days of this community, although I'm sure many new members are tired of hearing us "reminisce."
I'll keep following the thread. Who knows, I might get a wild hair and change my mind about submitting something. :p
05-14-08, 09:32 PM
I like your pose and expression, I admire your work. keep rolling along.
Good thread and as usual polite discussion with good folks.
09-10-08, 09:55 PM
so i really didnt do anything trying to make her a comic character, and actually i went through and changed most of the proportions that would signify her being one.
so basically heres my superheroine, NAKED GIRL... with the power... of NAKED. haha.. but tell me what you think of her. womanSculpt.jpg
09-11-08, 04:13 AM
Oh, wow, I completely forgot about this thread.
Anyone else interested in resurrecting this?
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