Scared Silly Entry by Jason Horncastle

[Dondemaker]

Hi everybody,
This contest looks like fun (and good practice) so after much dilly-dallying, I have decided to submit my (late!) entry:

A witch offering a poisoned apple to a small child (you, the viewer). One little irony - the apple still has the "organic fruit" label on it. Cropped in close so that you just have the witch's smiling face with the apple and her gnarled hand in the foreground. This will keep it simple in keeping with my relative lack of experience and rather antiquated computer.

Since I'm on ZB2 (so can't do re-topology) and have to keep my poly counts low, I'll probably do base meshes in Silo, but the rest will be in ZBrush apart from tweaking in Photoshop.

Here's an initial sketch done in ZBrush (I still need to put the hand).
Good luck to everyone,
Jason
witchdoc1.jpg

[Dondemaker]

Since posting my entry I've been looking in the internet for some witch references and came across this illustration by John Alvin. It's really very similar to my proposal (apart from the "organic fruit" label) so maybe I should change. I don't want people to think I'm copying. What do you think? All comments appreciated.
Thanks
Jason
Fairest in the land.jpg

[Disco Stu]

it does look pretty similar u should definitly get some distance from it but as a reference for the witch it seems pretty good. u nearly cant avoid copying something on a witch its been done a million times and it would be really hard to invent it again without influences in your head pushing you into an direction of any other witch picture there has been made

[Seavannah]

maybe it is just a matter of pulling the view back and showing more of the witch. Maybe try to make a pretty witch and more inticing so you want to reach for whatever she is handing out but keep apple closer to the camera so you can see the sicker cause that is what makes it differnt. really good concept and art.

p.s. just came up with another idea to make it different. maybe have a hand already holding the apple as if we already reached in and grabbed it and the witch looking all sweet (still ugly though) and as if she isn't doing nothing wrong. have a small bite already out of it is also a possibility.

[Dondemaker]

Disco Stu - Thanks for your comments. I agree that I should get some distance from John Alvin's pic so I actually won't use the witch as a reference.

Seavannah - Thanks for your advice too. I hadn't thought of making a pretty witch but maybe that's a good suggestion although I was rather looking forward to making her look all gnarled and ugly! Certainly I think it would be a good idea to have a more wide angle view to get in more of the witch. The hand of the receiver is a possibility too - you've given me some food for thought, thanks.

Best of luck to both of you in your entries.
Jason

[Dondemaker]

Having thought about the above, I've made a new concept sketch showing more of the witch. I need to start actually modelling now, the month is passing!
Jason witchsketch.jpg

[Dondemaker]

I'm thinking of putting a "Health & Safety" label on her hat to add to the irony. What do you think?

[Marsyas]

Funny idea! I'm not familiar with the 'Health and Safety' label. Might be better to go subtle. Can always try it out though.

[Blaine91555]

Great concept. I really like this one.

[Dondemaker]

Thanks both of you for your encouragement. I should be updating soon, although I've been a bit bogged down this week with other things. I should be able to get back on it this evening I hope.

[Dondemaker]

Finally managed to get on with my witch head. Base mesh made in Silo and imported into ZBrush to start detailing. First render. No texture yet and more detailing needed. C&C as always welcome.
Cheers
Jason

Witch1STrender.jpg
base-mesh.jpg

[LittleDedder]

Really good start

[Dondemaker]

Thanks LittleDedder. I thought I was going to get a lot done in the last few days, then I got the flu, had to catch up with some work etc. Oh well! Here's the hand, again a first render with no texture. The base mesh was made in Silo. C&C of course welcome.
Cheers
Jason

hand.jpg

hand-base.jpg

[Marsyas]

Nice progress! The hand wrinkles look really nice. :tu:

[Blaine91555]

Great looking hand :tu: :tu:

[Dondemaker]

Marsyas and Blaine91555 - thanks to both of you for the encouragement. Here is a first attempt at starting to put things together. Looking at angles, perspective etc. Hopefully I will be back with another update later tonight.
Cheers
Jason

1st-together.jpg

[Dondemaker]

A further look at putting things together and work on the body. Since I'm using ZB2 with no perspective view, but the perspective of my witch is very exagerated, I'm having to do that in the modelling, hence the oversized sleeves.

2nd-together.jpg
body-stages.jpg

[Harmonic]

Hey Dondemaker, thats starting to come together nicely :tu:

[Dondemaker]

Harmonic - thanks, hopefully I might even get it finished in time!!
I've been working on the apple with it's label:

apple-stages.jpg

[alonso varela]

Hey! I like your work, we have almost the same concep entry contest!

buena suerte!

;)

[Dondemaker]

Hi Alonso, thanks for the encouragement. Yes, there are some similarities but I think there's plenty of difference too!!
This is just an eye, but I thought I'd upload it all the same.
Jason

eyeballgrab.jpg

[Slosh]

I was starting to wonder if you'd given up, but I'm glad to see you are still going strong! Best of luck to you.

[AngelJ]

Dondemaker,

Been watching this one among the rest for a bit now. I am glad to see more come out of this, been holding comments until now figured I'd wait til more got further along. Some times the simple concepts can be done to compete with really complicated ones and after seeing what your doing this is definitely one of those that can compete!! The exaggeration is nicely done and adds nice emphasis to your pose. Will be watching this one closely, keep it up want to see it finished by Nov. 2 :D :tu: :tu:

[Marsyas]

Looking good! Seems to be coming together well.

[Dondemaker]

Slosh - Thanks, yes "strong" may not be the right word, but I'm still going!!
AngelJ - Thanks for the encouragement. Hopefully I will get it done in time.
And Marsyas, thanks to you too.

I've been thinking about the background which I wanted industrial, gloomy and polluted looking. I made a model in Silo and did a test paint in ZBrush just to get a feeling for what I'm doing. In the final version I'll need to separate the painted plane from the industrial model (on separate levels) and bake them in order to avoid unwanted shadows on the background.
Jason

trybackgnd.jpg

[AngelJ]

Dondemaker,

I see what your trying to accomplish with the industrial background and how it ties into the theme, though with the witch seeming to be classical/stereotypical type.. I am finding it hard pressed to see them having connectivity. Now if you where to say put a hard hat on the witch would definitely tie them together nicely. Otherwise if you keeping her hat the same maybe doing something small like putting "Inspector #12" on the hat would help sell it better as well. At any rate still looking forward to more!! :tu: :tu:

[Dondemaker]

AngelJ, thanks for a very valid comment and some food for thought. I had considered (see my post about 2 weeks ago) putting a "Health & Safety" label on her hat, but wasn't sure. I think it's rather an English thing and might be a bit obscure to many. A hard hat?? Could be an idea ... I'll chew over it for a while and work on the frame.
Thanks
Jason

[AngelJ]

Dondemaker,

Ahh then yah the "Health and Safety" type of FDA label would do well. At this stage something quick would do the trick and help you get this one finished up by Nov. 2

[UncleZ]

industrial background is very new in the contest
best luck finshing in time

[Dondemaker]

AngelJ- thanks again!! At the moment I'm leaning towards putting a "Public Relations" label on her hat. Maybe that would serve the purpose better than "Health & Safety"? In the meantime, here is the frame.
Jason

texturedframe.jpg

[Dondemaker]

Thanks UncleZ, and I'll try my best to meet the deadline.
I am thinking that my title will be "Tricked or Treated?" - seems in keeping.
Jason

[Ctrl-Z]

Since I'm using ZB2 with no perspective view, but the perspective of my witch is very exagerated, I'm having to do that in the modelling.All well and good, and you're doing a great job with that. But, ZB2 does have a perspective view. It wasn't widely used on the PC side because you had to exit Edit mode to see it, and this jumping back and forth was too technical for a lot of users. But, free upgrades make ZB2 on the PC sort of a non-issue, so I take it you're running a PowerPC based Mac? If so, you're doubly in luck. Not only is there a perspective mode, you can switch in and out of it with hotkey 'u', and model with this on. Amount of distortion is, I think, controlled in the "draw" palette.

I prefer the forced perspective you've created here. It shows a lot more control, frankly. But in the future, you'll be pleased to note that you've got options.

[Dondemaker]

Ctrl-Z - Thanks for that very interesting information on perspective: I've been playing around a little. I must have mislearned early on. Also, it seems you can't change the perspective on a whole scene, just on a model while it is still editable. Does this change in ZB3? You are right, I'm on my trusty old G4 (450 MHZ/512 MB RAM) and am struggling a little!! However, this is her last project - my new Mac Pro arrives next week so then I shall be onto ZB3 like (most of) the rest of you.

I'm working on the head texture/material/lightling. I used projection master rather a lot in deformation mode for many of these wrinkles and have pushed the mesh rather far. I'm already at 300,000 polys and another division level is too much for my system. I shall divide at the last minute when I'm ready to drop to canvas and then retouch in 2.5D.
Jason

head-texture3.jpg

[Ctrl-Z]

Also, it seems you can't change the perspective on a whole scene, just on a model while it is still editable. Does this change in ZB3?From a technical standpoint, no. Geometry dropped to the canvas will always be reduced to Pixols.

But perceptually? Yeah. Subtools let you pretend you don't have this limitation.



Mac Pro:
I'm jealous. Couldn't afford to upgrade my G5, so there's a refurbished Dell sitting right next to it.

[nightwoodwolf]

very nice ... would like to see the final image .. good luck Dondemaker

[Rory_L]

Nice and simple, direct concept!

Though tie won't allow this now, you might think about starting your characters off in ZB, using Z-Spheres. Models made with them have the great advantage over those made with primitives in that they generally have passable poly flows and usefully low poly counts. If then you feel the need to adjust some topology in Silo, do so, but you'll already be off ot a flying start with the Z-Sphere generated adaptive skin mesh.

If you want the witch to have something more of a wicked grin, try lowering her lower lip to reveal teeth.

Cheers,

R

[Dondemaker]

Thanks for taking a look and for your replies.

Ctrl-Z: Thanks again. If I had a G5 I probably wouldn't be upgrading either, but from a G4... By the way, if you are thinking of upgrading it's probably worth waiting a while. Word is that a new generation of Mac Pros will come out probably early in 2008. That means that you would either be able to get the new generation model or mayne get a good deal on the present model. I'm buying at the wrong time, but couldn't wait any longer (not just for ZBrush)!

Nightwoodwolf: Thanks, I'm starting to put everything together now.

Rory_L: Thanks to you too. I will be putting teeth and I will think about the lips.
Re ZSpheres: I'm about to upgrade to ZB3 and will then rethink my workflow. A new entry to the process will of course be the new retopology feature, which I think changes a lot. I started with ZB doing everything with ZSpheres/adaptive skins. Then I tried some mechanical modelling which needed a lot of box modelling in ZB. Although it worked, it was a lot of effort and I realized that for non-organic modelling it made sense to buy and learn Silo, which I did. Since then I've rather "fallen into" doing all by bases in Silo. As I say, a rethink is called for.

Cheers
Jason

[Dondemaker]

Well everyone, we're into the final sprint!! I'm working hard on my final composition and, short of disasters, will be back with the final piece before evening. In the meantime, here is my final background. Painted entirely in ZB on a 2D plane with the industrial model (shown earlier in this thread) put on a separate layer in front of it. I rendered and baked and then used the glow and blur brushes to soften it a little. Much of this is covered by other things of course.
I see lots of people have already posted wonderful final images. I'll look at them better and make some comments once I have mine out of the way.
Jason

backgrnd2.jpg

[soulreaver]

Really nice modeling there...& The deadline is very close. Waiting to c finished soon...:)

[Dondemaker]

Thanks Soulreaver - well, I've finished and will upload in a minute.
First I just wanted to say a huge thankyou to everyone who has looked at my work and made comments and suggestions, and a thankyou to Pixologic and Wacom for making this possible. I think many of us have found it's been a huge amount of work - it's certainly been the biggest ZB project I have undertaken till now. It's been like an intensive ZB workshop - hard work, but very enjoyable and hugely instructive.
Good luck to everyone!!
Jason

[Dondemaker]

Here is my final piece.
It has ended up a little more political or social than originally intended, so I apologize for not doing something light hearted or "silly". On the other hand, although the humour is rather dark, I think it is a valid alternative interpretation of "Scared Silly".

As detailed in my thread:
1. Silo was used for all base meshes except the apple where I used ZSpheres.
2. Photoshop was used for final compositing, adding the eyebrows, making the labels for the apple and the hat and the design for the frame.
3. Everything else, including six final renders with different lighting, was done in ZBrush.

Working file in ZBrush was 2000 x 2500 pixels
Final file is 1000 x 1250 (rendered at AAHalf).
Smaller file uploaded here.

Well, enough said. Here is "Tricked or Treated?"



finalOKlow.jpg

[Marsyas]

Congrats! It really feels like that hand and apple come out of the piece. Well done! :tu:

[Dondemaker]

Thanks Marsyas and good luck to everyone, I'm going to bed. By the time I get up it will be all over.
Jason

[dustbin1_uk]

Hey Jason! The forums got locked down before I had a chance to congratulate you on this image. I thought it was a very clever idea and had it set as my desktop wall paper for quite a while after the competition went to voting.

I love how she simply pops out of the image at you. When this first came on my screen I had to lean back a bit! ;)

I'd be very interested in seeing the process of making the frame for your image. Was it post rendering or did you add it during your render process?

Either way, this was a great job! Well done! (sorry I was late saying that :o )

[Dondemaker]

Hi Mark and thanks very much. As far as I know that is the first time an image of mine has been someone's desktop wall paper so that's quite a compliment.

The frame was part of the final render. I was working in ZB2 so I'm not sure everything I say here would be exactly the same in ZB3 but I think it would more or less. The base mesh was made in Silo. I then imported it to ZB and upped the poly count to around 100,000. I made the design for the frame in Photoshop as a simple B&W image. I originally intended to use this as an alpha to create a bas relief on the frame, but decided I preferred the simple B&W painted look. I put the image on a separate layer from the frame, activated Projection Master for RGB only and used the Clone Brush to transfer the design to the frame (the layer option has to be activated in the Clone Brush in order to clone from one layer to another). The frame was then saved together with it's texture for later use.

In my final ZB file the frame was drawn on it's own layer (I had 7 in all for different items). I moved it backwards and forwards several times until I had it in front of the body but behind the hat, hand, apple and extended sleeve. I think I actually had it probably too far back since I had problems getting shadows from these to fall on the frame even with long shadow values in the lighting settings. I therefore cheated a bit and made the colour of the frame a little darker where I wanted shadows before doing some of the later renders (I did 6 in all for different light settings). Time was getting short for the deadline!!

This method did leave the bottom part of the body visible below the frame. I suppose I could have cancelled this out in ZB, but I chose to do it in Photoshop after final compositing of the various renders.

Hope this explains things,

All the best,
Jason framebase.jpg

[dustbin1_uk]

It doe's indeed! It's a good method, makes her really pop out the image at you. Thanks for explaining that, ZB document Layers are a very handy feature. I used them for my entry in several places too.

Cheers.