Scared Silly Entry by Chuck Clayton

[Morbius]

Well, I’m very new to ZBrush, and have been trying to conjure up an idea that could easily be told with an image or two, but quite honestly, everything I’ve thought of would be an extremely ambitious project for a mere beginner.

Undaunted I, nonetheless, thought I’d hop on board and at least register my ideas on the chance that I might actually be able to produce something! :) At this point I think I’d be thrilled to pull off a decent looking pumpkin, but one can dream can’t one? If I can’t pull it off this year, there’s always next! Right!?

For now, until I make up my mind:

Idea 1: Little Girl with Bad Intent! Halloween night with the front of the home all decorated and lit, and a little girl stands in the yard holding out a big halloween-colored lollipop in her right hand, trying to lure ‘Dracula’-like vampire closer to her. He’s reaching for the lollipop, and she’s holding it just out of his reach trying to get him closer. Behind her back in the other hand, she holds a hammer and stake! I think the idea could be clearly conveyed in a sculpture.

While I really like the first idea, I’m really leaning towards this right now:

Idea 2: A ‘simple’ Pumpkin carving. One big, fat pumpkin, and right next to it a tall, skinny pumpkin - and the faces on them are carved to resemble caricatures of ‘Laurel and Hardy’. I’m not sure if this would violate any copyrights or contest rules, and it’s not exactly a ‘scary’ idea, but I think it would be cool to do - even if I just save the idea to do later.

Idea 3: Pumpkin-head people carve human heads for Halloween! Father and son pumpkinheads are sitting on the front porch steps. Dad is carving eyes, nose and mouth out of a human head, while son is holding the top of another head in his left hand, and scooping out the content of the head with his right (getting it ready for Dad to carve). A few completed heads sit around the porch, already carved and with a candle illuminating them from within. Twisted and weird, yes, but not with a gruesome intent. That is, no blood and guts really - more of a surrealistic scene. I‘m thinking kind of a painted ceramic looking sculpture.

Anyway, as soon as I get a ruling on the ‘Laurel and Hardy’ pumpkin idea from aurick, I’ll make up my mind which to enter, and post a sketch. My intent is to do it entirely in ZBrush.

And being a noob of course I don’t have any illusions of actually winning anything, or really even producing anything worthwhile, but the only failure is in not trying, right?

It’ll be good fun regardless - and GOOD LUCK to all!

[Slosh]

Oh, man...number 3 sounds great! I hope you choose that one.

[-WOODY-]

I love number 3 as well lol. Sounds like a real father and son kind of moment in a very demented way.

[Ctrl-Z]

Pretty sure all the Laurel and Hardy films have fallen into public domain by now. And you're not recreating their likeness or placing them in the context of a copywritten story. Just two men with distinct poses and bodytypes, in period costume.

I think you've got a pretty clear case for "fair use", at the very least. I don't think you have a copyright problem. Contest rules are a different matter, though -- for that, you're right to go to the source.

[Davinci990]

I also vote for number 3.
If two full pumpkin people, a wide porch, and all those human heads are too much to render, you can push in tighter-- The idea of "porch" can be one step, a door and a wall light. And, father and son working over a single human head tells the punchline.
Good stuff.

[Morbius]

Well.... I'm going to have to give up on this contest, folks. I've been working with Zbrush2 on an Intel Mac going on three weeks now, and I still can't even sculpt on a zsphere.

The tutorials I have found leave much to be desired - at least for v2 - and I'm more than a little frustrated with the whole thing. Older tutorials I have found seem fairly clear, but then the tools they allude to don't exist, and most of the 'better' tutorials aren't clear or concise enough to follow.

Every time I load a zsphere, I can't seem to sculpt anything on it. It always ends up being something 'in addition to' the zsphere, and I find I'm not sculpting the sphere at all.

How software could be on the market for so long without a single book published on it is beyond understanding, and the 'Practical Manual' isn't clear enough to be of much help.

Have fun folks! Guess I'll wait for v3 for the Mac, and wait for a decent book to come out. Someday.

I hereby disqualify myself, unfortuantely.

Btw, if any of you are having a hard time coming up with an idea, feel free to run with one of mine!

[Seavannah]

I don't know much about the mac version but have you clicked on make a pollymesh 3d button cause that I have found would be the bases of the problem. it is found in the tool menu. and also using 2 make sure that you have clicked on the newly created pm3d sphere after clicking the button. opps that is for a pollysphere.
ohhh zpheres that's a little more actually will try and send you something as clear as I can and simply. I have found a few movies and tuts here that were easy for me to learn on my own.
you can use a poly sphere and do what I said before to sculpt a head.

Please don't give up even if you don't make the contest it sounds like a very cool concept. Hope this helps you. if not ask anyone in here that has a super moderator or senior member and I know someone will help that's why I love zbrush centeral because eveyone that can will help without question. aurick would be a good person to turn to I think.
he is a non entry on this contest and he works for zb
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=51746 click on link and either write him on the post or pm him.

[Morbius]

Please don't give up even if you don't make the contest it sounds like a very cool concept. Hope this helps you. if not ask anyone in here that has a super moderator or senior member and I know someone will help that's why I love zbrush centeral because eveyone that can will help without question.

Thanks Seavannah, and I know what you're saying. I'm not totally giving up. Just for now. I feel like I'm just spinning my wheels. Many of the things the 'Practical Manual' says to do simply don't work. Even something as simple as 'deleting a zsphere'. It says to simple alt-click on the sphere to delete. But it doesn't. You can alt-click, option click, contrl/cmd click. Doesn't matter.

And yes, there are a lot of extremely knowledgable and helpful folks here, and many have tried to help. Some things just don't seem to work. I really feel badly about it, because I was so looking forward to doing some unusual sculpting, but after awhile trying over and over and over again to do something fairly 'simple' gets a bit tedious and disappointing.

Maybe when 3 comes out for Mac things will straighten out for me. I don't know. Maybe I'm just getting too old, and don't grasp things as well as I use to. I'm just worn out reading the manual, and trying and trying to no avail.

Thanks!

[-WOODY-]

I'm sorry to hear that Morbius. Since I don't use a Mac, I'm afraid I'm not much of a help to you.

Maybe some folks in the help and troubleshooting section who use Macs can help you, that is, if you're not burned out from all the digging and reading so far.

[Seavannah]

try maybe to see if you can draw on a sphere aka a pollysphere. Zpheres are kind of screwy to me too and I have 3 and like 2, 3 is just about the same as 2 on the zsphere thing. I have worked on 2 for a little while. the way I deleted zpheres before was using the undo button in edit. make sure in preferences you have the undos to like twenty or more and change once you have the mesh ready so not to bog down comp when sculpting mesh. I am glad you will not be giving up that is the only way to fail, giving up. Never too old we all get frustrated from time to time even people that work in the CG industry. Take this contest as a learning experience and above all have fun.

will try to show you tonight or tomorrow in another thread to use poly spheres and or zsphere's I will put the link to it here and see if it helps you also will be willing to answer any questions u may have that I can after you read and see pics of it. I won't leave you till either I can help or someone else can. once the basics are learned zb is a breeze most of the time.

for tonight breathe get some rest and don't think on it tonight. sometimes it just takes in taking a break. take some time whatever you need and I will be here when you need or are ready.

p.s. I wish that they had another contest for Mac users since you guys haven't got 3 that would make it a bit more fair I think......or maybe a contest for 2 and one for 3.

[Seavannah]

hi there me again hope i am not bothering you but click below on link and read. Sorry more reading but this should get you started on the way to sculpting and I did make it as short and sweet as I could. also pics which is the only way I can learn. hope it helps please let me know. and also if you have anymore questions will do the best I can.

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?p=400409&posted=1#post400409

[Morbius]

hi there me again hope i am not bothering you but click below on link and read. Sorry more reading but this should get you started on the way to sculpting and I did make it as short and sweet as I could. also pics which is the only way I can learn. hope it helps please let me know. and also if you have anymore questions will do the best I can.


Bothering me!!?? Goodness no! I do so much appreciate you taking the time, and going to this extreme to help!!

From a quick read of it, I can already see some 'vital' steps I've somehow been missing. Actually, I did have some success yesterday in sculpting a polysphere - and I did finally find the polysphere. I swear I looked for that thing forever, and never found it. Somehow yesterday, I did. Somehow or another, I only managed half a sphere. When I rotated it, the back half was missing. I'm sure I had it set for 360. Oh well. A minor success anyway.

I'm taking a break today just to give what's left of my brain (if any) a rest, but I'll be reading your tutorial more closely a bit later. Already saved it.

Thank you SO much for taking the time to help me out! Isn't that just like the people of ZBC? Always ready and willing to share and lend a hand!
:)

Bless you!

And many thanks also to 'cannedmushrooms' who has also gone that extra mile in helping this perplexed noob!

[Morbius]

SUCCESS AT LAST!!

I’ve been running Zbrush 2 on an Intel Mac to learn on (rather than installing an emulator to run 3.1) while waiting for the release of 3 for the Mac.

As some of you know, I’ve been absolutely pulling my hair out for the last couple of weeks trying to get a handle on this incredible software, and never quite figuring out what I was doing wrong. I’m use to a lot of animation and effects work, editing software, etc., and worked for many, many years professionally with Photoshop - but I’ve never come across a program that I wasn’t able to grab and run with. And so, have been banging my head against the wall with ZBrush. Until today.

Sometime late this afternoon whilst fooling around and reading more tutorials, someone named Seavannah tripped the switch, and the ever so ‘faint’ light came on inside me wee little brain. :) I’m delighted!

So, I’m in ‘business’ after all, merrily sculpting away - well, rudimentarily anyway - and will stay the course with the contest! I may not turn out anything worth a tinker’s damn, but it won’t be for lack of trying! I still have only half a sphere when I rotate it, but I'll figure that one out.

And I’d like to thank Slosh, cannedmushrooms (for bending over backwards trying to help), and especially Seavannah, who went berserk constructing a tutorial just for me and ‘threw the switch’.

Many, many thanks to all! I still have tons to learn, but at least now I’m moving forward instead of just treading water. So, onward with ‘Scared Silly’!

:)

[Seavannah]

yes success. If it makes you feel better it helped me to see if I remembered all the fab tuts I have found that have helped me. I also have been wanting to help someone as others have done for me. I did get a little screwy though not pollysphere sorry I think they changed the name from 2. In zb2 it is called 3dsphere or something like that. I know 3d is in the name. I am so glad I didn't remove the zb2 off my comp....some main things have been changed in zb3. Although many differences from the two the one thing that really didn't change is the zspheres and their functions so don't worry once you learn them you won't have to learn zpheres all over. Happy zbrushing....and should you ever need me again I shall try all I can.

p.s. I also can pick apart any program but the one I had, and still have, a hard time with is 3d studio max. I have had that prog for well over 5 years and I still don't understand a lot of its functions.

Maybe you can help me one day with Photoshop (after contest). I understand it but am not very proficient at it....... :D

[Seavannah]

also as a note in zb2 the zsphere, or anything else for that matter, if it looks as if it is deleted in the back it may not be. Try going the the move mode and if I remeber right (for I also had this problem) clicking outside of gizmo and moving out towards you untill you see the full sphere. if this don't work try inside but not on any of the gizmos lines of axis. things tend to disapear inside of the canvas in zb2. :eek: (mmmmmm good zspheres...lol):D

[Davinci990]

morbius- there *are* books and dvds on ZBrush...

If you learn visually, then Kurv Studio is a big help:

http://www.amazon.com/Get-into-ZBrush-Glen-Southern/dp/B000ACQKRK/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/105-2179225-4361225?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1191825387&sr=8-2

And, aurick has a book there too:
(aka Matthew Yetter-- this astounding forum's big eye)

http://www.amazon.com/Unleashing-ZBrush-Matthew-Yetter/dp/1598631934/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-2179225-4361225?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191825387&sr=8-1

Hope that speeds things up for you!

[Disco Stu]

idea number 3 sounds really great! lets see some scooping

[Morbius]

Maybe you can help me one day with Photoshop (after contest). I understand it but am not very proficient at it....... :D

Thank you very much, Seavannah!

And I'd be delighted to help you with PS any time.


:D

[Morbius]

also as a note in zb2 the zsphere, or anything else for that matter, if it looks as if it is deleted in the back it may not be. Try going the the move mode and if I remeber right (for I also had this problem) clicking outside of gizmo and moving out towards you untill you see the full sphere. if this don't work try inside but not on any of the gizmos lines of axis. things tend to disapear inside of the canvas in zb2. :eek: (mmmmmm good zspheres...lol):D

Strangely, the 'Sphere3D' IS a full sphere when I rotate it. The red 'ZSphere' is the one that is a half sphere when I rotate. A minor inconvenience, and I'm sure I'll figure it out. Probably (very likely) some very simple thing I'm doing wrong, or not doing.

[Disco Stu]

it becomes a full sphere once u attach other spheres to it. so the first shouldnt be the head if its just gonna stay one sphere

[Morbius]

If you learn visually, then Kurv Studio is a big help:

http://www.amazon.com/Get-into-ZBrush-Glen-Southern/dp/B000ACQKRK/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/105-2179225-4361225?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1191825387&sr=8-2


Yes, I've been thinking about the DVD. The problem I have with learning by DVD is that if you make a mistake along the way, then you have to back up the DVD and watch again, etc. It's a great way to learn for some people, but not really the best way for me. I may give it a go anyway.




And, aurick has a book there too:
(aka Matthew Yetter-- this astounding forum's big eye)

http://www.amazon.com/Unleashing-ZBrush-Matthew-Yetter/dp/1598631934/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-2179225-4361225?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191825387&sr=8-1

Hope that speeds things up for you!

Yes, aurick is great, and I'd love to have the book, but it's not available until Dec 18 this year according to Amazon, see: "Availability: This title has not yet been released. You may order it now and we will ship it to you when it arrives."

I learn best from books, but I'll have to wait along with everyone else on that one.

Thanks Davinci!

[Morbius]

idea number 3 sounds really great! lets see some scooping

Yes it does! But it's pretty 'ambitious' for a beginner, don't you think? :)
My imagination is much greater than my ability right now, but I may give it a try. I'm just happy to be moving forward in the learning curve, and it would probably be best to tackle something somewhat less intimidating. Start out 'small' and get a handle on this thing, rather than trying for something very complex, and frustrating myself.

I'm not out to 'win' anything in the contest. I'd be thrilled just to participate, even if it be a 'minor' offering.

Thanks!

[Seavannah]

Disco Stu is absolutly right forgot about that. I will definantly take you up on the photoshop stuff one day. I hope you enjoy yourself with zb and have fun with the contest...
also maybe a thought for you for the contest. Two pumpkins sitting out side on a table having scared faces for a pumpkin pie sits right in the middle with maybe a carving knife. Just a thought to keep the pumpkins in #2 but having them in a different situation with their faces scared should take care of the possible copyright infringement. you could always do different faces other than 'Laurel and Hardy’ but still keep them skinny and fat.

Happy Halloween to all.

[Morbius]

it becomes a full sphere once u attach other spheres to it. so the first shouldnt be the head if its just gonna stay one sphere


Yup. That was the problem all right. Lack of learning on my part.

Thanks!

[Morbius]

also maybe a thought for you for the contest. Two pumpkins sitting out side on a table having scared faces for a pumpkin pie sits right in the middle with maybe a carving knife. Just a thought to keep the pumpkins in #2 but having them in a different situation with their faces scared should take care of the possible copyright infringement. you could always do different faces other than 'Laurel and Hardy’ but still keep them skinny and fat.


Yes. I'm abandoning ideas #1 and #3. They are just way too ambitious for a beginner (me, anyway). I'm going to stick with the pumpkin idea in #2, and maybe revise the idea a bit.

Thanks!

[Morbius]

"The image that you create can be an amusing take on a recognizable character’s appearance", but Rule #6 says - "Use of copyrighted elements is not allowed."

Boy, I hate to stir up a hornets nest here, and I'm REALLY NOT trying to - honest - I just want to make sure I'm within the contest rules, but also not violating copyright laws.

Since Frankenstein, Dracula, The Wolfman, The Mummy, etc., are surely still under copyright of Universal Studios, would it be safe to say you can have a character that 'resembles' Frankenstein, for instance, but you just can't call it Frankenstein?? Yet, the 'image' of Frankenstein itself is under copyright. For example, if I wanted to paint a picture of the Frankenstein monster and sell it on the open market, I COULD NOT do so legally without the express written permission of Universal. Otherwise it would be copyright infringement.

So, since Laurel and Hardy are still under copyright, I legally couldn't do that either, even if I could get pumpkins to look like Laurel and Hardy.

Seems to me we need some clarification on this issue just to be cautious so that no one gets in any sort of legal trouble.

[Dondemaker]

Hi Morbius
Glad to see you're still at it.

Regarding copyright, I don't think you have a problem (although I'm open to correction from others). Copyright, I believe, expires 50 years after the death of the author. Frankenstein, for example, was written in 1818 so is no longer under copyright. That said, Universal may have the copyright on their particular representation of Frankenstein but not on Frankenstein in general (i.e. you can create a Frankenstein which is recognizably the original character as long as it doesn't resemble too closely Universal's one - and you can also call him Frankenstein).

"Copyright covers the expression of an idea"(wikipedia), so since Laurel and Hardy were not that but actual living people, I don't think they would ever have been covered by copyright (their films of course would). In their case I think, legally speaking, if you were to use their photo for advertising you might require permission from their heirs but since they are deemed of public interest you wouldn't require permission for newsworthy or editorial publication. I think anyone trying to prosecute you for using their likeness in sculpting a pair of pumpkins would be skating on very thin ice!!

Here is another quote from Wikipedia:
"Copyright law covers only the form or manner in which ideas or information have been manifested, the "form of material expression". It is not designed or intended to cover the actual idea, concepts, facts, styles, or techniques which may be embodied in or represented by the copyright work. For example, the copyright which subsists in relation to a Mickey Mouse cartoon prohibits unauthorized parties from distributing copies of the cartoon or creating derivative works which copy or mimic Disney's particular anthropomorphic mouse, but does not prohibit the creation of artistic works about anthropomorphic mice in general, so long as they are sufficiently different to not be deemed imitative of the original."

Looking forward to seeing your pumkins develop,
Best of luck
Jason

[ZWolf]

Hey Morbius,

So I am curious if you are still going with idea number two. I actually had a similar idea o your number 3, but still very different. I had my idea before you posted yours, but I just hadn't registered yet. I'm just beginning like yourself, but I'm still going to give it my best shot! I just don't want people thinking I ripped off your idea, because I'm not like that. Everyone at my work can vouch that I started this idea on Monday, Oct. 1st. Anyway, I hope you are overcoming your obstacles, and I can't wait to see what we both do as beginners. Good luck!!!

[Morbius]

Hey Morbius,

So I am curious if you are still going with idea number two. I actually had a similar idea o your number 3, but still very different. I had my idea before you posted yours, but I just hadn't registered yet. I'm just beginning like yourself, but I'm still going to give it my best shot! I just don't want people thinking I ripped off your idea, because I'm not like that. Everyone at my work can vouch that I started this idea on Monday, Oct. 1st. Anyway, I hope you are overcoming your obstacles, and I can't wait to see what we both do as beginners. Good luck!!!

No problem! :) I'm going to pursue my idea #2 about the pumpkins, so if your idea is something 'like' my #3, no sweat. And as you said, your concept is 'still very different' anyway - but thanks for posting. This way there'll be no confusion.

Best of luck!! Being a newbie is a real hair-puller isn't it!?
:lol:

[Davinci990]

Here's the heart of copyright-- this succinct version via The Dallas Morning News-- among 100's of places: "...with the 1998 extension, known as the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act, the protection period was extended to 70 years after the death of the creator, and works owned by corporations were protected for 95 years."

@ http://www.dougbedell.com/lessig.html


edit:
For those who think 2002 is ancient, here is an exhuastive Wiki updated OCT07:

@ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

[snip]
"Since all countries have separate copyright laws, there is no such thing as an "international copyright". The Berne Convention, however, makes the copyright automatic in each signatory. Should copyright infringement litigation ensue, registration with the U.S. Copyright Office may affect the outcome.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)]