121 on realism / anatomics / texture issue

[vincentducos]

Hi all,

I've been away for a while, still trying to figure out a workflow that satisfies me.
I'm getting some cool stuff, but seems i'll have to keep working for ages before i can get the look i'm trying to get in my pics.

Anyway, i made a doodle today, and while doing Mr. Head n# 1356485zillion2, i figured out that the model I was doing in two ours was exactly the same I could have done a year ago when I started to get confident with ZB interface and tricks.

So, i understand i'm going like in the wrong direction. And i understand too that what I mainly lack is a good knowledge of Anatomy (facial in this case, but body anatomy too in others), among other things, like understanding what makes a texture a GOOD texture.

Sooooooo....

Does anyone have good links about anatomy sources, lessons, advices, texture tips, general realism in CG considerations ? ;)

I bet you have ! C'mon !

Here is my last crime :


http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200308/user_image-1062264504czg.jpg

Criticize, explain, be tough.
:b2: Thanks a lot. :b2:

[Stonecutter]

The CLASSIC on anatomy...
You can get started here for sure... :cool:
http://www.bartleby.com/107/

[Blackthorn]

hi, i'm currently working with the following book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0823016285/qid=1062272816/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/104-3739920-0785546?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

and also this one: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0823013766/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/104-3739920-0785546?v=glance&s=books looks quite interesting :)

[andreseloy]

vincentducos excuse me¡¡ When I reviewed the post I saw that forget my feedback to you¡¡¡ I want to say the model is very nice and with the links that already has been poited I will improve a lot but actually I really like¡¡
Thanks Stonecutter and Blackthorn for the link are very interesting¡¡

[vincentducos]

I knew it !
Stonecutter : that's an awsome source ! Thanks a lot.
Blackthorne : those books look great, and having the choice, i would surely prefer to buy a few of them, but for now I have to rely on good ol' free network.
(EDIT)
The Burne Hogarth book is really a cool one, I think I'll try to buy this one asap. But seems this edition only has the facial stuff, while the book i saw talked about all and every aspect of the human body...)
(//EDIT)

BTW, isn't that the kind of 'information' I can expect to find freely on internet ? Just asking :)

I'm sure people in this board have a lot of interesting links like those !

Thanks for helping ! :tu:

[Stonecutter]

Glad to be of help, Vincent... :D

Here's another 'Portal' to lots of information... :cool:
http://coldfusion.art.msstate.edu/camenisch/thehumanhead/reference.html

[vincentducos]

"He who seek, this one will find"

an interesting link, compares Da Vinci and Vesale drawings.
planches ANATOMIQUES (http://site.voila.fr/Anatomie2)
it's in french, but the pictures don't need any vocabulaire ;)

now i go give a shoot at yours, stonecutter.
(EDIT)
And there I found something both funny (or perhaps frightening, i'm not sure :rolleyes: )
Towards a Digital Computer with a Human Face (http://iaaa.nl/hh/face/salto.html)
A must see.The Eyes page (http://www.photovault.com/Link/Health/Anatomy/EyesOptical/HAEVolume01.html) is also a must see :D
(//EDIT)

[Stonecutter]

A VERY interesting link indeed, Vincent! :D
(And my last name is Lapierre, originally spelled by mon pere, LaPierre, I live in a bilingual country officially, (Canada), and had no problem with the language! ;) :D )

I'm going to bookmark this one for sure, just for those INCREDIBLE drawings by two Masters! Thank you for the link! :cool:

[Frenchy Pilou]

There was a fabulous site on the Net about anatomy
by an ancient Zbrusher: Peter Levius at www.fineart.sk (http://www.fineart.sk)
but curiously this site has desapear ???
Pilou

[Stonecutter]

I noticed that site had disappeared too, Frenchy...
I wanted to post it here...All of Andrew Loomis is gone as well, and one of the Andrew Loomis bookmarks I had, now leads to a Yugoslavian site... :confused: :(

[Frenchy Pilou]

Yes the Loomis Books were In format 1/1 !!! :(
Pilou

[Stonecutter]

Fortunately, I did download some for reference...I'll try to locate them again.
(But I bet you find them quicker! :D :cool: )

[Frenchy Pilou]

I refound this one :)Andrew Loomis (http://elmo.academyart.edu/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=loomis_creative)
Pilou

[Stonecutter]

That one didn't open for me...How about this one, which is two of his books in PDF format...
http://www.saveloomis.org/


EDIT:The second time I tried it was succesful...I KNEW you'd come through, Frenchy! :D ;) :cool: :tu:

[vincentducos]

1:1 Anatomy details ? That's almost as good as having a true model home :)

Remembers me of two human 1:1 sculptures I saw at Madrid's Reina Sofia. Just as realistic as truth but made of clay or sort of it. I can't remember the name of the artist though...

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200308/user_image-1062291432iff.jpg


I'm getting a little further in my search, this time with a torso. I have set the picture and tried to model a sphere to it, adding ZClay where I saw muscles... then I did the front side using the good old method (trying to figure out where the hell were the bones and stuff using my brain cells and memory.)
(Not actually sure which one is the best side ;) )

[Stonecutter]

Nnnnnice, Vincent! :tu: :tu: :tu:

I think you've started a major 'Reference Source' thread here! A great public service... :D :cool:

[Frenchy Pilou]

Another Loomis Book (http://www.biometric.free.fr/loomis/page_01.htm)
Pilou

[vincentducos]

Pilou : Yessss Man ! Those are pretty good exemples of what I was looking for. C'est du très bon !!! Thanks a lot.

Stonecutter : If I managed that, I'm quite happy :D

Something like this :

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200308/user_image-1062292065lql.jpg

[Octopuzzy]

where did you find that back reference?

[Stonecutter]

Check the first link I posted on page 1 of this thread O...I think that's from 'Grays' Anatomy', which is what that first link leads to...The Entire reference book is there, and if you want, you can click on 'Illustrations', and just check out those...

And WELCOME ABOARD!... :cool:


EDIT:Actually, when I checked 'Grays', I couldn't seem to find that image, so I guess you'll have to wait for Vincent to tell you, or check out the links on this thread posted so far...Trust me...You'll find LOTS of great references if you check those... :cool:

[Octopuzzy]

None of the links are new to me..but i have never seen that ref before and it looks great..
thanks for the help tho

[vincentducos]

Here go a few more...

The famous BACK ! (http://www.cabinet-revel.com/archive/Mai2002/Image152.html)
Gautier d'Agoty, Jacques-Fabien (1716-1785) Weird. (http://gallica.bnf.fr/anthologie/notices/01069.htm)
Jean Jacques Lequeu. Good for both Anatomy and Architecture ! (http://gallica.bnf.fr/metacata.idq?Bgc=&Mod=&CiRestriction=%28@_Fonds%20fonds_lequeu%29&RPT=)
Old drawings, very nices. (http://membres.lycos.fr/verat2003/anatomie1.htm)
Medical Pics (http://www.alveool.com/anat.htm)
Institut d'Anatomie de Paris (http://www.biomedicale.univ-paris5.fr/anat/anatomie/iconographie/icono.html)
The Visible Human Project (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/research/visible/visible_human.html)

Mmmh... Seems there are plenty of sources.
All is to have them at hand.

Cheers. ;)

[Frenchy Pilou]

Good links !
Just miss this
Plastination (http://www.plastination.com/)
And Fragonard ! (http://www.vet-alfort.fr/musee/index2.htm)
Pilou

[vincentducos]

Wow, Pilou, those two links are...
interesting ! ;)
I'm not sure I have the gutts to be this kind of artist/scientist. :D
I mean
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "(...)L’aspect macabre de la scène était renforcé par de petits fœtus humains montés sur des moutons ou des fœtus de chevaux, formant autour du « Cavalier de l’Apocalypse » une véritable armée."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm speechless.

This one too broke my jaw

No somos nada ! (http://www.koerperwelten.de/Downloads/Wallpaper_Hacker_800x600.jpg)

[Frenchy Pilou]

En effet :eek: :eek: :eek:
Pilou

[marcel]

:) hello! in my opinion, the far better books for artists, and especially "sculpting" artists, like 3d, is Bridgman books, like constructive anatomy and so on... "The human machine" is probably the title the most known from him, and a muist... in Dover collection, not expansive... frazetta and a lot of comics artists have sayed their debt to bridgman; i don't believe at all at the "medical" approach for artists , with all the muscles and so on... tedious and non creative... hogarth is useful, (far less than bridgman), but don't teach anatomy: he teach human body as hogarth creation, and that's different: you have to translate his style to yours if you want to use it... hope this helps... amitiés .M.

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hi Marcel
Sure :)
Pilou

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hi Marcel
I have not yet found many illustrations of George B Bridgman!
Just many commercial covers as this (http://actionfigures.cebru.com/books/P000ghej9fdndg/The_Human_Machine_The_Anatomical_Structure_and_Mec hanism_of_the_Human_Body/)
I will continue :)
Pilou

[marcel]

yes, frenchy, (bonjour), it's this one... in dover collection, there is 4 books, human maéchine being the most intersting... the other "incontournables" are: human form in motion, from muybridge... (and animals in motion, if you want to cover more anatomy; ) in fact bridgman + muybridge for practice, and nothing else necessary... ;)

[Frenchy Pilou]

It's more easy for Muybridge animations !!! (http://www.figuredrawings.com/Animation.html) :cool: :cool: :cool:
Images (http://images.google.fr/images?hl=fr&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=muybridge)
Pilou

[vincentducos]

Wow, Marcel. I'm just bluffed, because, I bought the Hogarth book, even if the title is so nuts (le dessin sans peine, drawing without efforts), and it's true what you say, it has a bad bad point, that it shows not only anatomy but a style too. I tought that was only my way to see it but I'm glad you pointed it out. Anyway, It's a very good source, I hope I will not begin drawing in its likeliness another time. Well, it could be an improvement if I drew exactly the same, but I still prefer my good old *wrong* personal style. :D

|edit|
Muybridge... you're damn so right ! How did I manage to forget this plan I had of studying and try to copy them pictures... ?
Thanks for the links :tu:

Mmmmh, by the way... The title I chose for the post refered to realism and texture issues too. I'm not really sure of what I meant with this, but I think it had a relation with how good modeling can be replaced/enhanced/suggested/faked by texture tricks. Like in the Kevin Brilliant alien tut that comes with Z, when he shows how underbones dark skin tones give depth to the figure. It would also be interesting to study what makes a good skin texture, ie: how good color shading and melting makes it true to the eye.
Not too confusing ? :D

[marcel]

vincent, i think that if you stay in zbrush, the most realistic way is to snapshot your model, export in photoshop, make the texture for example from photos, and reimport in zbrush, via document import export; the photoshop is going exactly on the 2,5 form, whith an incredible resolution... if you plan to export a 3d model out of zbrush to an another app, it's another matter of things... amitiés M.