Topology, Topo-Rigging & more (Tutorials by Rastaman)

[Rastaman]

Hello,

these are my tutorials about the new ZB3-features 'Topology' and 'Topology-Rigging'.

You also find more informations from me and others in Plakkies Topology & Flow Lab -Thread:
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=44876&page=1&pp=15

Because of discovering all few hours some new features, I decided to place them all together in this new Thread for making it more easy for me to handle the updates.

Check out frequently for new updates.;)

Enjoy,
Ralf Klostermann
www.rk-art.de (http://www.rk-art.de/)


Jana-posed.jpg


Ah, one further note.

In Europe we don't care or even think about this, but I have been told that it is a theme in some US-countrys. (?)
Some of my tutorials uses for demonstration Jana, a female nude character which is build ,so to say, very 'complete' in all major aspects.

So be informed that these tutorials contain nudity.
Please choose by yourself if you want to read them.


Appendix


As you might already noticed, so easy and fluid the work with low-subd-models goes, posing high-subd-level-models can be a hard thing depending on the power of your system.

Pixologic officially doesn't support Topo-Rigging yet and prefer the Transpose-mode , therefore the algorythms of the topo-rigg for calculating the changes of the pixol-positions when you pose your model seems not to be as elaborated as they are for the transpose-mode.

So you have the problem of a more or less significant delay in the display of posing high-subd-models that you don't have when using low-subd-levels.

I tried some ways to bypass this , but didn't come to a result so far, unless Marcus_Civis posted a good solution for that:

First make sure you rig a copy of your model.
Create your rig at the lowest subdiv level; bind and pose the rig.
When your happy with a pose, create an Adaptive Skin, making sure that the Adaptive Skin: Density slider is at 1, so that the resulting mesh has the same number of polys as the lowest level of your model.
Select the new Adaptive Skin posed version and export as an OBJ.
Switch to your original unrigged model (remember, you made a copy?) and import the OBJ at the lowest subdiv level (you can create 3D Layers for importing multiple poses).
Go up the subdiv levels and admire your work.
With that, you should be able to easily and quickly pose your model in a low-subd-level and change it later into a high-subd-level.

Thanks to Marcus for this great help.

The topo-rigging-tutorial includes now this Appendix and is updated.


************************************

Today is the day of updates.:lol:

Again, Marcus_Civis posted on page 3 something very usefull, not more and not less than a way for IK-Posing.:eek:
FK-Posing is already descriped by me, but IK-posing with topo-rigs is brandnew.

The technique (with a big credit to Marcus ;) ) is updated in the new version of the topo-rigging tutorial.

Check it out, we are close to a nearly perfect to use rigging-system. (Only a few handles for rotation-control and joint-movement-limitations are missing)
:lol:

[Rastaman]

The hidden-secret-guide has a small update (actualized some links)

[hobo]

Nice work, and thank you for it.

Happy Pfingsten :)

[andreseloy]

Great idea to make a cleanup thread!
Thanks for the pdf.
Andreseloy

[Rastaman]

Thank you too.:D

Unfortunately I had to reupdate all Tuts again because this server-system fooled me with a wrong link that referred to Plakkie's Thread instead of this site.:rolleyes:
So now are all updated with the right links.
Sorry.:o

[Rastaman]

Argghhhh, again.:mad: :evil: :evil:


The links that I put in my Tutorials that should lead you back to this site lead instead to Plakkie's site No.10.

Would anyone be so kind to try if it works right with you or could tell me what's wrong here ?

Thanx,

Ralf

[vedanta]

Just downloaded the tutorials,,they look fantastic...

Thanks

[Odysseus-XB-]

Great work, thanks!! :)

[rookie-z]

downloaded as well....excellent work on this, Rastaman. :)

You have my thanks for your effort and sharing!

[Rastaman]

The Hidden-secrets-guide and the Easy-rigging-Tutorial are updated.:D

Some new features and notes are added (not so many, but truly worth a shot.:lol:
Also Crusoes 'painting topology'-post is included in the Guide. thanks to him.
A very cool new found feature.:cool:

[WailingMonkey]

thanks alot, Rastaman! :)


WailingMonkey

[kelvin273]

Thanks Rastaman and the ZBC-Community for your effort creating this fine Z3 Topo-Tutorials :tu::tu::tu:

Vielen Dank!
kel
.

[Rastaman]

Added my new Tutorial about adapting existing riggs to other meshes.:D
You find it im the first topic.

AverageMan_Rigged_Composition.jpg

[Jason Belec]

Looking pretty good. Nice action pose. ;)

[Rastaman]

Thanks, Jason.:o :lol:

[joebount]

My bad ! Wrong thread ;)

[Rastaman]

Here is another one.
Posing only takes seconds with topo-riggs, and this is only an early evolution-state of this rigg. I will refine it when I have the time.:rolleyes:

So far, I had my guerilla-war with mostly all existing rigging-systems, mainly C4D and even the famous messiah (beside the fact that they (PMG) are since several months and two updates not able to solve an essential problem between messiah and C4D so I cannot use messiah within C4D....:mad: :evil: ) made me mostly headaches. I siimply had and still have major problems with these totally overcomplicated and hard to control rigging-systems.:rolleyes:
So far.:D
Beside the fact that unfortunately ZB has no animation-feature, a better material-system and a more advanced renderer (whishlist :D ), this is by far the easiest to handle rigging-system.
As like modeling with the new Tweak-brush combined with the new red-clay-material gives me for the very first time an absolutely smooth feeling like modeling with real clay, the topo-rigg is like working with a smooth wire-puppet.
Only a few handles that would pop up over micro-zspheres to ease contolling the rotation around the length-axis of a zbone are missing.
Beside that it's absolutely perfect for me. Simply activate 'Rotate' (I use mostly only Rotate) and drag your zbone where you want it to be.
Also complex positions are so easy to archieve and to control.
Perfect.:lol:
I hope and wish that Pixologic will keep it mainly just right as it is now and will not 'improve' it to death by overlading it with handles, sliders, angle-schemes and so on.;)


AverageMan_Rigged_posed.jpg


AverageMan_Rigged_posed_1.jpg

[Rastaman]

@ joebount: please move this to Plakkies Thread, I will answer you there, because the others can't follow this now anymore and it's for all interesting.;)

[Rastaman]

The Easy-topo-rigging-tutorial is updated.

[highlander_72]

Thanks Ralf! This is highly valuable info and great of you to share! It will undoubtedly come in very handy and saves a lot of time experimenting. Keep it up! You have my undivided attention!

Grüße aus Berlin!:D

PS: Falls Du es noch nicht selber entdeckt hast und es Dich interessiert, es gibt ein brand-neues deutschsprachiges Forum rund um CG, welches sehr von deiner Web-Präsenz profitieren würde. http://www.pixelplausch.de/ Alles aber noch in den Anfangsstadien, also noch nicht viel Betrieb.

[Rastaman]

Hallo Highlander,

danke für den Tip, werde ich mal checken.

Ich habe hier im Forum auch einen etwas längeren deutschsprachigen Beitrag zum Thema Portierung von ZBrush nach C4D.
Falls der Dich interessiert, findest Du ihn hier:

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=17191&page=2&highlight=cinema

[highlander_72]

Super! Na den schau ich mir doch garantiert gleich mal an! Danke nochmals und weiter so! :D

Ciao,
Felix

PS: Wenn das so weiter geht, muß ich Dir ja glatt credit als TD in meinen nächsten Projekten geben! lol

PPS: Schau mir gerade den C4D thread an, etwas länger ist gut! lol
Ausführlicher geht es ja gar nicht mehr! Erstklassig!

[Rastaman]

:D

Mal sehen, vielleicht wird sogar noch mal ein .pdf-Tutorial draus in deutsch oder englisch.;)

[highlander_72]

Ich hab mir bereits die Seite in html runtergeladen. Das tut's auch, da brauchst Du Dir nicht noch extra Arbeit zu machen! :D Muß ja eh schon lange genug gedauert haben, da alles runterzutippen.

PS: Deine Jana sieht übrigens toll aus! Für was für eine Art Projekt ist die denn gedacht? Bin jedenfalls schon auf das Endresultat gespannt!

[Rastaman]

Ja, hat schon etwas gedauert, bis alles schlüssig zusammengebastelt war und auch so funktionierte.;)

Jana ist momentan eine Art Basic-Babe, ein attraktiver weiblicher Grundcharakter noch ohne spezielle Züge und Details, der entsprechend variiert für verschiedene Animationen und Bilder dienen soll. Noch nichts wirklich Konkretes. Im Moment nur ein anatomisches Studienmodell (ihr Popo hat mich Stunden von Try & Error in ZB2 gekostet bis er perfekt war :lol: ), aber ideal fürs Posing mit Topo-Riggs.

Fertige Bilder u.a. mit Jana stelle ich dann hier ein.;)

Ihr Test-Rigg am Beispiel des SuperAverageMan habe ich hier zum Download eingestellt:
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=44876&page=26&pp=15

[highlander_72]

Hört sich gut an! (und jawohl, dieser Hintern hat was! Oh la la! Ist gut gelungen! :D )

Ich werde die Augen für weitere Updates etc offenhalten.;)

Danke auch noch mal für die Test-Rigg! Ist ja schließlich nicht selbstverständlich sowas auch noch fertig zur Verfügung zu stellen. Sobald ich etwas Zeit erübrigen kann, werde ich mich dann auch mal damit beschäftigen. Soviel neues an Software, so viel Ideen, so wenig Zeit! Was für ein Schicksal, seufz! :D lol

Super Arbeit, weiter so!:tu:

[Rastaman]

Klaro, mach' ich.:lol: Grüsse nach Berlin.:tu:

[highlander_72]

Hi Ralf,

sorry für den Off-topic remark, aber ich mußte mir gerade nochmal ein lautes Lachen zu deiner "nudity" Warnung verkneifen und hatte das Bedürfnis den Gedanken hier zu verewigen. :D Die spinnen, die Ami's, aber so isse's leider!

Ciao, ciao!

[Rastaman]

Tscha, Felix, andere Länder, andere Sitten.;)

Das muss man einfach so akzeptieren und da dies ein US-Forum ist und ich bereits gesehen habe, dass viele Posts gezielt darauf hinweisen, richte ich mich auch schon aus Respekt und Höflichkeit danach.

Deine PM habe ich schon mal gelesen, kann Dir aber aus Zeitgründen erst später antworten.
Ich mache mir mal Gedanken darüber und melde mich per PM.

Grüsse,

Ralf.

[highlander_72]

lol. Das ist mir schon klar! Ich habe 7 Jahre in den USA gelebt, studiert und gearbeitet. Der Kern der Sache ist, daß da meiner Erfahrung nach eine unglaubliche Doppelmoral hinter ist und genau darüber mußte ich lachen. Naja egal, ist schon richtig was Du machst, war keinesfalls als Kritik gedacht.

So, ich mach mich jetzt mal an die nächste pm an dich. Freut mich, daß wir zumindest soweit zusammengekommen sind. :D

Gruß,
Felix

[sahn]

Thanks :tu: :tu: :tu:

[nicholasmarks]

Hi...thanks for writing up such detailed tutorials Rastaman. I however cannot seem to make the "Easy Rigging of all Detail Levels" work. I have repeated the process you describe at least 10 times and cannot seem to make it work.

Here is what I am trying to do. I have a pretty well detailed male anatomy pose at subdivision level 6. I want to rig it and pose it in sub division 1 but then res that pose up so it I see it in subdivision level 6. My computer can't handle posing level 6.

Here is what I can do.. I can rig the level 1 model...then pose it....this is where i lose it. I can't figure out how to then show my sub d level 6 model in pose. Please help. If I can get this one thing to work my life will be WONDERFUL!

THanks in advance

Nick

[Rastaman]

Hi Nick,
you put your finger in a big wound of ZB3-Topo-Rigging.:cool:

I am trying since days to find a way to pose models in low-subd's for quicker workflow and then simply change the posed model somehow into high-subd-levels.
Unfortunately, all ways I tried so far weren't successfull.:cry:

It seems that Pixologic has not build in that option yet.

If you want to pose your model in high-subd's you have to bind the rigg directly when it is in this subd-level. There is no other way.

So, I am sorry to say that the only way so far is to deal with the delay that ZB has in actualizing the display when posing high-subd-models.

Although Transpose shows manipulations with high-subd's without any delay, the rigging-way is not fluid in working with high-subd's.
I think both uses different internal algorythms that calculate and display the changes of the pixol-positions during the manipiulations.

If we have much luck, Pixologic read our posts and realizes the big advantage that rigging has to easy and reliably pose our models compared with their currently favorised hard to control Transpose-way.

Maybe they can simply adapt the Transpose-calculation-code to the rigging-feature and we find this in the next update, but I have my doubths.:confused:

So, I am sorry that I cannot offer you a good solution yet, but I keep on trying to find a way despite all drawbacks so far.

Ralf

[marcus_civis]

If you want to pose your model in high-subd's you have to bind the rigg directly when it is in this subd-level. There is no other way.


Yes there is. Try this:

First make sure you rig a copy of your model. Create your rig at the lowest subdiv level; bind and pose the rig. When your happy with a pose, create an Adaptive Skin, making sure that the Adaptive Skin: Density slider is at 1, so that the resulting mesh has the same number of polys as the lowest level of your model. Select the new Adaptive Skin posed version and export as an OBJ. Switch to your original unrigged model (remember, you made a copy?) and import the OBJ at the lowest subdiv level (you can create 3D Layers for importing multiple poses). Go up the subdiv levels and admire your work.

SuperAvManHi.jpg
Here's a very quick pose using this method and Mr Petroc's SuperAverageMan. Don't look closely, it was VERY quick!

[Rastaman]

Marcus,

this sounds great.:D :tu:
Thanks a lot.
I thought after all the try's and all errors that I had to end with that frustrating result. :lol:
I will try it as soon as possible.
If this also works in my attempts, would you mind if I would integrate it in the tutorial (as long as it fits inside the 500 KB-border) as a final note, of course with a veeeeeerrrrrry big credit to you ? ;)
In every case I would like to integrate your post as a quote with reference to you in my Start-post to inform all users who don't go through all pages.
Is that OK for you ?



So, with this absolutely fantastic news from Marcus there is really no more need to use transpose for posing high-subd-models.:D :tu:
Great.:lol:

[AngelJ]

Marcus_civis- Nice work around, gonna have to try that sometime. Had been going round and round like rastaman trying to figure out something to get rigging methods to work with high poly models from the topology lab thread. You make some sweet zscripts so its no wonder you figured something out. The contributions everyone makes like yourself, rastaman and many many others is what makes zcentral a nice place to frequent. Keep up the great work guys.

Was thinking maybe there is a way to do a rigging of a low poly model and use a displacemet to get the details or use the projection feature in the rigging menu to get the details. Though haven't played with those at all and just stuff I consider no clue if it would actually work. Going to try your method here soon.

[garycrump]

I can confirm that this does work. Just tried it on the superman model.

In fact it is a old technique that has been posted here on the forum before. I have use it many times to change models poses and as a additinal morphing technique.

[marcus_civis]

Yeah, it's a well-known technique so no need for any special credits or anything, just include the details wherever you want.

[Rastaman]

The first site as well as the .pdf contain now Marcus' post, and of course with a big thank and a credit.;) :lol:

[nicholasmarks]

Marcus...you are my hero! I love you!

[nicholasmarks]

Rastaman...got one more question...I also posted this in another thread but I think you might be able to help.

I did your toporig just as explained. But when I go to move the zsphere once they have been bound they do not rotate....the only move....and the parent to child relationship is broken.

this pic is me in the rotate tool trying to move arm.

Thanks in advance!

microsphereserror.jpg

[Rastaman]

Nick, I already posted this in the Topo-Flow-Thread:

I only have sometimes an out-of-the-model-comming rig when I bind a rig to a model on which the rig-topology wasn't originally created.
On the original-model, I never saw this behavior.

For posing, use Rotate-mode and Drag primarily the ZBones (the connection-lines between the micro-zspheres) . Only use the micro-zspheres for rotating around the length-axis of your Zbones.

In every case, the micro-zspheres shouldn't move away from each others when you are in Rotate-mode and drag a zbone, they must always stay on their realtive length-positions to their neighbours and only move in a rotation manner.

Did you create the topology of this rig on this model or did you adapt it from another ?
In which modes do you work ?
You are sure to have Rotate-mode active, not the Move-mode ?

Unbind and delete your model from the rig and pose the rig alone.
If it also behaves strange, you might be in the wrong mode.

[marcus_civis]

Rastaman,
Whilst I agree that Rotate mode is great for posing, try also holding down Alt in Move mode for 'natural-linked movement'. So, for example, hold down Alt and grab the ankle micro-zsphere, then move it up.

Move.jpg

[Rastaman]

Haha, Marcus, do you know that you just found the hidden way to pose in IK (Inverse Kinematik) ? :eek:
Of course you know.:lol:
You're really genious. :idea:

Any other secrets that you found ? :D

So, folks, I will update the topo-rigging-tutorial and the top-post once again to include the previous known FK-like pose-method in Rotate-mode and Marcus' way that represents IK-mode.

Now we are coming closer and closer to a really perfect rigging-system Pixologic hided secretely in ZB3.
As I wrote, I find this rigging system much more comfortable and easier to control than any other system I have seen so far, including messiah etc.:D

[marcus_civis]

Rastaman,
It's just the old ZSphere posing method, nothing new.



Any other secrets that you found ? :D


Not at the moment, though I'm hoping to zscript something you may find useful (if I can get it to work as I want!) ;)

[Rastaman]

The tutorial is updated with a closer description of FK and Marcus' IK-technique.

Again a big thank to Marcus.:D
Great job.:tu:

[AngelJ]

Rastaman & Marcus_Civis- That worked very well with the topology rig method then posing and exporting/importing the obj. with the new pose. Liked making the new poses on different layers was neat. Wonder if you could make a gif with those.. if so I may have to try that out. Think most folks will really like it once they try it out. Great work guys... :tu: :tu:

[marcus_civis]

Wonder if you could make a gif with those.. if so I may have to try that out. Think most folks will really like it once they try it out. Great work guys...

Glad you got it working AngelJ,

This post may interest you ;)

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showpost.php?p=361000&postcount=12

Cheers,

[gothax]

Awesome job Rastaman... very helpful tutorials.
Why don't you put this up on the wiki? It would be nice to have all the info condensed there and not have to browse through different files/sites to look everything up.

grüße aus Frankfurt ;)
Kerim

[Rastaman]

Thanx, Gothax. :D

Concerning the Wiki, I'm not sure if I have permission to do so ?
I thought so far the wiki is hosted by Pixologic for official statements.:confused:

[marcus_civis]

Concerning the Wiki, I'm not sure if I have permission to do so ?
I thought so far the wiki is hosted by Pixologic for official statements.

Anyone can edit the Wiki; all you need to do is create an account. There's a version of the Topology & Reflow Lab thread here:


http://www.zbrush.info/wiki/index.php/Topology_and_Reflow_Lab

[Rastaman]

Ah, ok, I see.

Thanks Marcus.

I will check for this tomorrow.

[Rastaman]

I just created an account in the wiki, but I am unsure if it has sense to just create there another site.:confused:

So far I see, users can then only find it via the 'New Pages'-Topic, what makes not much sense in my mind.
And adding the PDF-tutorials into the tutorial-section of the main-page is not allowed for normal users, right as I suggested.

So until no 'official' decides that the PDF's are worth a place on the main-site, I think most users can better find them here in the tutorial-section which has a good overview-site in the hierarchy-structure.

[AngelJ]

Marcus_Civis- Thanks for that link, will be checking it out in more depth! At first glance it looks pretty sweet!

[Rastaman]

Because I cannot add this new tutorial to my first post here (no more edit-feature), I started a new Thread with this:

I just released a new tutorial about merging objects using topology.

You find it here:

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=47410

Final.jpg

[cyfer]

Rastaman (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/member.php?u=31731)

I Love You !
Zillllllllllllllllllllllllllion Thanks for your efforts

[Rastaman]

A further tip for working with topo-rigs:

For better seeing your rigg within your model, it's much easier to work with a transparent material assigned to your model. A suitable transparent material for this is for example included in Marcus_Civis' Plugin 'Reference Image' and is called 'ModelTransMat.zmt'.
Maybe Marcus could be so kind to add a link for his material.

[zhaxen]

maan thats insane!,
like chuck norris thinks of a new tool in zbrush and zbrush will have it in no time.

r u chuck norris? ^^


thx for those tuts!

[roger_01]

Great tutor! Can anyone tell me what is rigging and what is transpose in zb3? Zb3 has some great fratures and i'm looking forward to get my hand dirty.:cool::confused:

[Rastaman]

If you read my tutorial about topo-rigging and read as well the wiki about transpose, the differences and advantages / disadvantages of both will be clear. ;)

Transpose is a general manipulation tool in ZB3 for move, rotate and scale , where rigging is, well, mostly the same as it is in other apps.

So it depends on what you want to do before deciding what method is best for your needs.

[roger_01]

Thanks rastamam. These links helped me to unnderstand it better. :D

[EddyLoonstijn]

Hi Rastaman,

I've read some months ago your splendid tutorial on rigging with minizspheres.
For me it works mostly very well, so I am interested in some new developments in this 'zsphere' :confused:. So maybe I'm not looking at the right place at ZBrushCentral or did you gave up on the subject?

Anyhow I have some questions:
1. Is it possible to do this sort of rigging also with a mesh consisting of two separate figures, so that I can pose the two figures in interaction with one another?
2. Close to the first question: Is it possible to move and rotate the two figures in relation to each other while posing with the rig? Posing is not only moving limbs but also - and at the same time - moving in space.
It seems to be difficult, because Alt+Move and Rotate are used in your setup for the posing (IK resp. FK) of the figure(s).
I tried already to Preview=ON and then Masking one of the figures and Moving the unmasked in relation to the masked figure; then going back to Preview=OFF, but the old situation stays the same as before.

Maybe you have some answers?

Greetings, EddyL

[markz1]

Hi there,

Where , if possible, can I download Jana?

Markus

[Rastaman]

Eddy:

Sorry, I haven't checked this thread for quite a long time, so sorry that you didn't get an answer from me.

I haven't tried it with two characters so far, so I cannot say anything to that issue.
When I have tried it, I will post my results.


Markz1:
Sorry, Jana's mesh is not available to public.
A lot of people asked for her, but she's currently not for download.
But if the things work the way I want them to, you will soon see some more of her here in the forum-galery.;)

[hal8999]

Thanks Rastaman,
your work is precious... Compliments!

Mattia

[pineappleman]

Rastaman! Great work - I didn't realise how straightforward it would be. really pleased you made those tutorials. Thanks! :tu:

[ello]

hi rastaman,
first off, i have to say that you created a great tutorial here. i am struggling here because zbrush crashes so often, when trying to undo a step. is this something known? and are there workarounds? i just have no clue

cheers,
ello

[Rastaman]

Hi Ello,


hmmm, I personally don't have problems with crashes.
But I don't use the undo-command so often in conjunction with topo-things.
Maybe your memory-settings in the ZBrush-preferences should be controlled.

[ello]

this sounds logical, specially because i often get a memory warning. thanks for poiting me towards it!

[madpencil]

This may be a silly question and for all I know it may have been addressed already but here it goes... Is it possible to use this posing technique or other posing techniques within ZBrush to create "Morph target" type frames within the layers palette or subtool palette? And in essence I guess animating with in ZBrush? Please tell me that everyone does it and that you have a killer thread that shows how to go about it. Thanks!

[Segvoia]

This has been an immensely helpful thread! Thank you for the time you took to create it and the accompanying PDF's. This way of posing is so much more intuitive than using transpose.

[Rastaman]

Obviously Pixo has deleted for some reason in ZB4 R2 the convert-to-main feature in the Toplogy tab.
So, micro-ZSphere-rigging is unfortunately not longer available under R2. :(

[oddioh]

Funny, I just tried to follow your tutorial today and encoutered this roadblock. Sorry to see this useful feature has been negated. Has anyone found any similar techniques?