SneakPreview: Displacement/Bump maps in the next ZBrush update...

[Pixolator]

Hi :)
The next ZBrush update (free to registered users) will allow you to utilize gray-scale images as a displacement maps or as bump maps and be able o add fine details to a low-poly object without having to increase the polygon count of the model.

Here is an example of displacement map used on an unmodified ZSphere skin...
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1033410879wlp.jpg
In the image above you can see the base ZSphere object (top left) followed by its unmodified skin (less than 5k polygons) followed by the unmodified skin with the gray scale texture that was assigned as a displacement map to produce all the details in the final rendered model.


The displacement map was created with the help of TextureMaster (btw..3D Copy - the core function used by TextureMaster - has been updated to produce a more accurate canvas-to-model mapping in the next version) and then converted to alpha image and assigned as a displacement map. The gray scale map can also be used as bump map which only displaces the surface in one axis ( z-axis, in-out).

The key point is that the 3D model was created without any polygon-modeling stage, the model started as very simple skinned ZSphere model and all the details have been added by a single displacement map!.
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1033410810mtc.jpg

-Pixolator :)

[DLee]

Another step up the ladder to being an all star program Pix. Now if only you could sell talent to go with it... I'd be set ~G~

Super update, look forward to it.

[PusGhetty]

OMG... thank you Ofer... this is an amazing addition! I was hoping you would do this someday! Now someday is almost here!!!
Awesome work too!

[Mentat7]

Thud!........that was the sound of me hitting the ground after passing out! This is a wish come true!!!! Thank you thank you Pixolator and that glorious team of yours!


Edit: It appears that perhaps the adaptive skinning process has been tweaked as well (notiting the complex looking joints and lack of distortion)? :)

[Houdini]

WOW! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I bet that 5 more upgrades and there will be a button in the tools palette where you´ll see writen "3D to Real" :D :D :D :D :D :D
Pix, when will you stop surprising us with all those wonders????? I sincerly hope NEVER!!!!!

[Zoid]

This is an unbelievable boost to the quality of this program, and once again free - Thank you! Will these displacement maps be using the UV tiling method ? I'm curious about exportability to other programs. :cool:

[Kaz]

All details added with the displacement map, meaning you can now repose your ZSphere model and use the same texture for the details?

Oh man! :tu:

[Mahlikus The Black]

OMG Pix your truly amazing!
You plan on providing a tutorial for this?
Its good to know the ZBrush wonders will never end!

:tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:

[KenH]

Yeeeeharrr!!!!! :D

OK...Now I can see this having an impact on adaptive animation. The holy grail is that much closer.

[aurick]

Zoid, I believe the key to your answer is in Pixolator's statement that the map can be created in TextureMaster and used for either bump or displacement. Which UV mapping methods does TextureMaster work with? ;)

Kaz, you've hit the nail on the head!

And for the record, my jaw hit the floor when I got my first peak of this new feature, too!

[WingedOne]

I wish I could say something, but I can't. I'm speechless. :eek:

Thank you!!!

BTW, that creature would probably look at home somewhere in Episode III. :)

[The Namek]

well ... euhm ...
Can you keep those guys as a pet ? :p

[Mahlikus The Black]

You mean after the displacement map is made and added to the model, you can reposition it and the displacements from the map will reposition with it?..Textures do the same thing too?
One thing I didn't know either because I am not familiar with 1.5.
YOU CAN REPOSITION MODELS LIKE TOYS?!?!?
EVEN AFTER THE DISPLAA???.....and teex.....
*Passes out*
....
*wakes up*
After all that....can you export the model into true poly?
*passes out again*

[dfaris]

VERY VERY VERY nice!

This was to be one of my next questions but I figure I better give it a rest for now lol

Oh hey what would happen if you exported this model? would the mesh stay displaced if not could you export the displacment map too?

I don't really want to ask this question so we can avoid what we went through last time lol but:
When might we expect to get our hands on this bad boy update?

Nice job
Dave

[DMerchen]

:eek: :eek: :eek: Holy cow! I just can't stop staring at this thing. Excellent, can't wait for this update! :)

[Ogre]

One day in the not to distant future- when this piece of software is compared with all other 2d and 3D apps- the words of the late conductor Herbert Von Karajan will ring out once again " All else is gaslight "

Many Thanks

ogre

[diana]

That's what I want to know too, can ZBrush export the model as a polymesh with all the modifications to the mesh that the displacement map made? Poser 5 just came out with displacement maps too, which are fun to mess with, but it can't save the resulting mesh as a model even though behind the scenes it calculates and modifies the actual mesh in order to show you the displacement effects in the render. It's strictly a visual thing for rendering in Poser 5 and to me it seems like such a waste to throw out all those calculations and modifications to the mesh after the render is done.

[Ken M]

Oh, WOW!!! I'm happy to say that nothing compares to this company's support. It's beginning to feel like Christmas every few months. What an amazing addition! Thanks! :eek:

[DeeVee]

I do not know what it all means but it sounds impressive, so I will join the group and say wow also :ex: :D :D :D :tu:

[wenna]

wow oh wow is right!! I have been wrestling with this for the past month for a model of mine.. everytime I added detail the file size was just too big! This is fantastic!!!!
THANK YOU!!!!

[Nikko]

Pixolator just never stops amazing me!

You know, folks, this is some pretty good justification for the delay of the update, isn't it? :) ;) :)

[aurick]

Maybe it would help to clarify just WHAT a displacement map or bump map are meant for.

The problem with 3D work is that if it doesn't have geometry, it doesn't exist. This means that the more detail you want to add to your model, the more complex the mesh must be. In turn, more polygons mean more strain on your system as you work with the model. You can end up bogging down all but the best machines.

Bump maps allow you to create the appearance of extra geometry through a render effect that displaces geometry along the Z axis at the time of render. This effect is controlled by the grayscale map that is applied to the bump channel. The problem with this effect is that it's not perfect. Take a golf ball, for example. The dimples near the center of the ball will look like they truly do have extra geometry because the Z axis displacement is going in the proper direction. But the farther the ball gets toward the edge, the worse the effect becomes. When you reach the very edge of the ball, you can clearly see that it's just a plain old sphere with a fancy render effect.

Displacement mapping solves that problem by applying the displacement along all axes, rather than just the Z. This means that the render of the golf ball would look perfect regardless of the angle. And, as Pixolator's images here show, it works just as well for figures of all kinds!

BUT both of these approaches are still render effects. They do not add additional geometry to the model, as that would defeat the purpose of the technique: to create additional geometry at render time without your computer having to bear the burden of those extra polygons the rest of the time.

Trying to convert a displace-mapped model into actual geometry would result in a massive file that would probably be unuseable in most programs that you would want to use it in. However, as Pixolator said, these maps can be used as either bump or displacement maps. That applies both in ZBrush and in other programs.

If you are using the figure in ZBrush, there's no need to think about it. Just put the map where you want it and have fun. :) If you plan to take it to another program, then you would export the low poly model, its TextureMastered texture map, and it's TextureMastered bump/displacement map. Where you use the second map would depend upon the capabilities of the program that you are taking the model into. For example, Poser 4 would require that you place the grayscale map into the bump channel. Poser 5, LightWave, Maya, etc. would allow you to place the map into either Bump or Displacement depending on your needs. In the end, ZBrush is all about choices -- and you will now have even more options to make those choices with!

[Mentat7]

Just had to stop by again and say WOW! :D

[Bruce Gregory]

Pixolator:

When the gray scale map is applied to the low poly mesh, how does the low poly model produce the detail? I assume that no polygons are added - is it a subdivision "post" effect? Can you think of a way, using this new and interesting technology, that facial features can be animated?

Bruce, Gregory

[Mahlikus The Black]

:eek:

[dfaris]

OK that is just what I wanted that we can export the bump/displacment map.

Next question is there something new with texturemaster or does it just make the displacement map as we paint? or do we just paint a gray scale mape on the model then paint the normal colors I guess I want to know how this works with TextureMaster?

[Ron Harris]

First off, Pix I think you could take a stick figure and make it look like a DaVinci'....sounds like it is going to be another great feature to delve into. I didn't understand what it all meant at first read, but thank you also Aurick for bringing my braincell a bit more up to speed on the subject. You explanation of the stuff should be put along side a tutorial or something. I hear alot of terms and stuff alot of times and it goes right over my head. Though I don't fully understand it still, it does make a little more sense now. Now for a good tut and zscript when it comes out :) thnx Pix and team... :cool:

[kelly_b_c]

Yet again, another amazing addition.

I have a question, actually just want to clairfy something in my own head.

Is this how it works:

Bumb Maps add detail, but only normal to the screen.
Displacment Maps add detail and it is normal to the individual polygons?

If this is correct, do Pixols have a normal vector associated with them?

Just curious, no real need to know I suppose.

This is going to be a great addition, I can hardly wait!

[Karasuando]

Wow, this is a truly wonderful addition! and that beast is very impressive, does the the map on UVTiles generates such a smooth displacement?, very nice. I think you should throw in in a specular map channel too, now when your warmed up ;).

[Muvlo]

Incredible, amazing, fantastic... They all apply!!! :tu: :tu: Keep it up Pixologic! :)

[Slosh]

My eyes actually started to water when I saw this post, and I'm not prone to weeping. The more things you add, Pix, the less tempting it is to use other programs. This feature solves so much. I'm just thanking my lucky stars I had the guts to plunk down the initial cost of 1.23b. I am also not one prone to spending large sums of money on a single item. This is the best money I have spent in years. Thank-you so much for all of the improvements and for rekindling the artistic spark in so many of us. I'm gonna shut up now, since I'm also not prone to sucking up.

Brian Schlosser

[TVeyes]

I'm in love... all over again.

[Pat]

I agree totally with the above posts!

Really incredible work you do Pixolator and the whole Zbrush team, Thanks alot!

Pat

[Antimorph]

Quand on s' promène au bord de Zee,
Comm' tout est beau...
Quel renouveau...

tumpty tumpty tum

<- Happy. :)

[Grub]

Displacement maps are such an excellent addition! That creature model looks so astonishingly detailed! :eek: :cool:

[Gerlon]

Ack too much!!! I still haven't mastered the new features in 1.5, I'm getting a headache just thinking about this :p :D :D :D

[KenH]

I could be wrong, but from the pictures it looks like one displacement map does all poses. Do you make your model, detail it with displacement and then pose it how you like afterwards.

[Sarum]

i am speechless!!! :tu: :tu: :tu:
our fate is in your hands :) :) :)

[dfaris]

Any chance we can see what the map use for the image looks like?

[Northstarr]

Wow, I can't say that I fully understand what this is all about yet. But it looks good. And I trust there will be a tutorial script which will help my understanding.

thanks
:tu:

[Belleski]

HOLY MOLY!
That is quite the new feature!!!
I agree with North Star and plead for instructional scripts to learn this new technique...as it seems advanced.
(Pix always makes things look so easy, but I suspect this will take a bit of getting used to.)
So Excited! Can't Wait! :eek: :eek:

[dfaris]

nah this is a pretty easy thing to learn. you just paint a gray scale texture map and stick it on the model then the program displaces pixals depending on the color of the map. At least thats how it works in some other programs. I guess that texturemaster lets you paint the map right on the model which is really nice.

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hi Pix
When are you relaxing ? ;)
Pilou

[gummie]

Yes, I suspect it is like painting in relief, the underneath polygons provide all the structure while the surface "skin" provides all the non-overlapping features.

:tu:

This will be for 1.5.1?
When is this update coming out.

Another :tu: for Grayscale. :D

[tlillehoff]

i think alot of us are already familiar with displacement mapping. The real difference here could be that you can actually paint the displacement map data onto the object and see it deform in real time. Then just output the displacement map just like a texture. That would definatly be something new and useful.

[Sarum]

>"Any chance we can see what the map use for the image looks like? "

if my guess is right, you can see it on the picture ( the third little one ) :)

[KenH]

Yep. That's it on the model...wonder what it's like flat out though!

[deks]

Does this gonna be avaible in the zbrush 1.5 demo? Please don't say it won't!!!!!

[davidT]

Me thinks that this alone might make zbrush very interesting to alot of people. Me included. Tlillehof hit it on the head, painting a displacement map in realtime, and then exporting it, oh, now that's very interesting. ...I know that C4d, can't do that, I'm not sure about body paint or deep paint. The Detail is amazing.

[gummie]

I think Pixolator just used the old ZSpheres technique, as an additive.

[BeToOoO]

Wowwwww it's wonderfull tool. I wanna know if a model with the displacement map could will be exported to another program for animation.

[WingedOne]

Yes. See Aurick's post on page 2 of this thread.

[BeToOoO]

Hi another question... any date for release that update? :) thanks

[WingedOne]

All I've heard was "very soon".

[ivan louette]

Hi Pixolator,

I am new here, but I am amazed by the possibilities of Zspheres (the only occasional little problem is a program crash because of errors relocating memory).
Here you add something very intricating (and of course interesting). In all programs I know displacement maps displace polygons. I suppose here you use the pixols depth possibilities to create a "pixol displacement" effect based on your greyscale texture?

Kindly,
ivan

[Fouad B.]

is it more different then alpha masking and modifing mesh? like inflating or other ??

one other question about Zphere
do you think one day , possibility to link in real time zphere modele and mesh skin.

[aurick]

Ivan, from what I've seen (which isn't a whole lot yet), your description sounds very accurate.

This is a render effect, rather than a displacement or other deformation. As a result, it doesn't bog down your computer while you're working with the model. It only comes into play at render time.

In ZBrush's case, whether that means at the point that it's snapshot to the canvas or later when you actually do a final render remains to be seen... :)

Fouad B. -- have you tried the Mesh Preview when you're working with ZSpheres? It allows you to see what the mesh will look like without actually skinning the object. The button is in the ZSphere Inventory sub-palette.

[Fouad B.]

huh!! Aurick !!

yes of course I see that!!..
May be I Don't exprime correctly what I wat to say.

ok I make a translation with google.. I hope .. it is much clear ...

"I wanted to ask whether it would be possible one day to have the control direct of the meshs by Zsphere, without having has to export its meshs, with each times."


I mean, when I change the posing of the hand, that the modification is carried out on the mesh automatically. ( thx google)

[Mr Z]

*Sigh*

This is all too much for my brain, I cant wait for this feature, its the next best thing since Windows...errrm...No!

Seriously though...any idea when this feature will be ready, its gonna change the way we think our models should look like for sure!

I cant wait! :D

[polywally]

Hi pixolator
That looks fantastic. Can you give an indication of how the render time changed between the basic model and that with the displacement map in place?

[wchamlet]

OK, I'm still new to this Zsphere stuff, and for the life of me I don't see how I can do what Pixolator here has done. Is the displacement map features not yet implemented in version 1.55b? This was posted almost a year ago so I am hoping it is implemented. I'm pretty sure it's not though, but I thought I might ask since I could be wrong.

[Frenchy Pilou]

Not in the 1.55b but surely in the next :)
Pilou

[Mahlikus The Black]

You'll have to wait until The next release for DMapping. Version 1.9 I am assuming since its the last free version and most likely the last until a big version jump to 2.00. But, it will definately be in there. One thing to note though. DMapping is if you plan to export and render in another program (utilizing a low-poly cage and the map gen'ed in ZBrush). If not, Zbrush's models don't have to be converted..they can remain @ 1.5 million polys.
:eek: ;)

Should be any month now...its getting really exciting!

*MTB starts stockpiling smelling salts and cleaning equipment for the enormous amount of fainting, hurling, and head explosions.*

[wchamlet]

I was actually referring to the ability to paint the displacement maps and see how they would look on a low poly adaptive Zsphere as Pixolator showed in the first post in this thread.

I'd like to try doing my Ent in this method, that way i could pose him in different poses before I exported him into my other program... Maya.

I don't like how I did the pose for the Ent I'm working on now, and I was just hoping I could use that DMAP feature... well you know. Now. :D I guess I'll just have to rig him in Maya and see how that goes.

Thanks for the heads up though. I feel bad for the folks who have waited over a year for this feature. I'd have gone nuts! LOL

*keeps fingers crossed for the new Zbrush to come out soon* ;)

[Mahlikus The Black]

I know...so was I. ;)
The painting is also modeling..by what I gather. Pixologic has kinda combined the two characteristic for modeling...its hard to explain but then again..so are most other things novel and revolutionary.
Here (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=010822) is another example. Recognize the various alpha shape on it...? :D So it was to a degree..painted and modeled.

For you though...you would definately make a low poly cage..bring it into ZB and make you DMap then export everything for animation/rigging.

[uriash]

Hey MTB,
what do you mean by "the last free version"? as far as I know Zbrush isn't free today.. does it?

[Mahlikus The Black]

OMG I am sorry..oops
I ment last free upgrade.
Sorry. :o

[marcel]

malhikus: please, what are the soft allowing the displacement map at the render step? are they all extremely expansive?...

[rtyer]

Do you really believe there is a new update?

[Mahlikus The Black]

Marcel-I know lightwave does. Not too sure about 3DS Max or Maya...I think they do. I know Cinema 4D doesn't currently.

rtyer-What do you mean..update of ZBrush...of course there is silly. :rolleyes:

[Cezar Souza]

Mahlikus: 3DS MAX does support displacement maps, at least from version 4.2 up (that I'm aware of). And I'm pretty much sure that Maya does, since the guys at Weta Digital are using the new ZBrush Beta, and they use Maya... :p
:rolleyes:

[skello]

Can we at least see how the new interface will look like?....maybe a screen capture???

[Mahlikus The Black]

Oh no you didn't! I have been brooding on this for months. If I could fathom a guess? It won't be too different then the older versions. Zbrush has a pretty good interface. How they will actually change it I don't know. One thing I would like would be to have more button icons...like cinema. I love being able to just see it and know. I would REALLY LOVE if it had like a options window. I have worked with Photoshop for many years and when they added that top option bar, I striped off my clothes and danced for joy (Boss didn't like that very much). ;) Now I know the quick menu thing we have now is cool and all but I would like something that is not only constant but also changes depending on the tool selected. *drools* One more thing I would love would be some kind of identifier between the different palettes. I find myself sometimes getting lost..trying to scroll the palettes and find where one ends and the other begins. There are quite a few things I would like to see. History in the ZScripts, documents, tools, and alphas palette. Storing default lighting and materials. Bigger doc size. Bigger draw(brush) sizes. Icons Icons Icons! (I love cinema and rhino). As for actual features... A brush engine like PS. I would be in heaven if I could interlaces a couple of alphas and have it spray them with individual, random rotation. Edge group and loop tools. The ability to tweak edges, verts, and/or faces (thats the wings in me talking). OH GOD!...A knife tool. Plugin too..*more drooling* You know what..I'd better stop or I could go on for days. I doubt they will actually have time to impliment these things now but one thing is for sure. When this is all over, I believe they will open up a Feature Request Forum and consider our wants.

[skello]

Mahlikus
It seems you are very familiar with z brush so its interface may not be a problem for you.. but a lot of noobs (including me) who are not used to it cannot stand the current interface :(
So far the upcoming release looks very promising and i hope it gets a complete interface overhaul...maybe one that can be swithched fron the new one to the classic depending on user preference

[Mahlikus The Black]

That would be really cool.