Silence NOT golden

[MrGrey]

Am I the only person wondering what has happened to Zbrush 2.5? Have the developers died and forgotten to tell everyone? Or did they just forget to update the already quite good Zbrush, or maybe they did update it but forgot to release it and tell everyone...um...dunno.

No news is NOT good news. Let us know what`s going on before we go on to other apps, PLEASE!!!

[Oh Heck]

What other apps are there out there like Zbrush?? Only thing I heard of that comes close is Mudbox.....and that isn't out yet.

Some folks are pretty touchy about updates. You having problems with the current version?

[MrGrey]

Not having any particular problems with Zbrush, it`s the lack of any kind of information regarding the update which was announced well over 12 months ago (december 2004 if I remember correctly).

As for alternatives, yes Mudbox is looking interesting, but as its not released yet it`s not really worth getting excited about. Unlike the 2.5 Zbrush update: weren`t you excited by the possibilities of the software shown in the preview videos? I certainly was and I am itching to get my hands on it. Some sort of clue from Pixologic would help here.

[javierloredo]

No offense or anything but plz GET OVER IT! When the update is done, it will be done. For now, get the most you can from Zbrush 2.0 and the great plugins that make Zbrush a little bit closer to the 2.5 update.

Have a nice day!

Javier.

[pixelsoul]

Well Z-Brush is the only and best at what it does.. but it wouldn't mind if they hire a marketing guy to improve their customer relationship a bit :)

[MrGrey]

No offense or anything but plz GET OVER IT! When the update is done, it will be done.
Javier.
:confused: Wow, I thought this was a forum, a place for discussion.

Let me guess, you don`t work in marketing, do you? I hope not :lol:
Is it so wrong to want some sort of updated information on the update?

I have not, and never will, slate Zbrush. I think it`s a wonderful piece of software, albeit a little quirky in places.

[BazC]

Is it so wrong to want some sort of updated information on the update?
No it isn't but I suspect you won't get any news now until Siggraph. That's only about 6 weeks away, let's hope there's some news then!

[WENDEX2112]

I've watched the sample vids of what we can expect from 2.5 & it has to be worth the wait for what were going to get. yes it has been what seem like an eon but as they say Rome wasn't build in a day. Keep the faith.

[Evan Gaugh]

I like to think the reason they havent released it yet is they came up with a really good way of doing something amazing and they decided to hold the update off until they got it working so they could blow peoples minds at siggraph 06. I think it would be nice to see what they've got under their sleeves but im tellin ya wait for siggraph its become such a huge marketing tool to use siggraph as a platform for selling software.

[MrGrey]

I certainly hope something is unveiled at Siggraph, but - with respect - the same was said last year :confused:

However I`ll keep my fingers and toes crossed ;)

[javierloredo]

It is a place for discussion but if you search, this discussion has been already discussed a lot of times.

And nope, I dont work in marketing, but there is something that I like to do a lot and gives confidence of what I say. I like to Read, think and then speak. I know that everybody has their own opinions. I totaly respect yours, but before bringing this opinion it is always nice to read and research about the topic, before bringing the opinion to discussion.

Have a nice day!

Javier Loredo.

[pixelsoul]

Let's hope ;)


I like to think the reason they havent released it yet is they came up with a really good way of doing something amazing and they decided to hold the update off until they got it working so they could blow peoples minds at siggraph 06.

[Antimorph]

You don't need marketing if you're selling £10 notes for 5p. You need a big strong metal bat to beat off stupid jumping pushing humans who are so egotistical that they still think they're owed something.

I hope Pixologic are getting the patents and I hope they wait as long as it takes to protect their ideas from those that will shamelessly try and rip them off.

[MrGrey]

So now you advocate violence for asking a question? I hope this isn`t company policy :confused:

The only thing I think we are owed is information as to the progress of the free upgrade with all the cool features which Pixologic announced in Sept 2004. If that`s egotistical, then so-be-it, but I`ll bet I am not the only one who bought Zbrush 2 with an eye on the announced free upgrade.

[Erklaerbar]

omg antimorph, want some chocolate? ;) Dont think thats fair to mrgrey, hes got nothing to do with patents.....

[toxictwin]

You do realize that this thread will either get locked,deleted or stuck as far back as possible on the hope that nobody will ever find it. I have read so many of the 2.5 threads and find it hard to believe that it has been so long in the making and not anywhere near finished. They say as a rule no news is good news but it is the opposite in this case. I feel sorry for all those students that have brought v2 out of college grants and hoping for a 2.5 version to be released but lets face it. It's looking very unlikely that it will be released anytime soon. Don't get me wrong I like zbrush but as a company your business practice sucks.

[johnny blaze]

I really wish Pixologic would say something more concrete about a release date. However I will wait for Siggraph at this point. Hopefully Ofer will offer some info before then. Mudbox will be out by December it is further long than some people think. So at least you will have options if you can not wait for 2.5.

[billrobertson42]

[b][color=black]You do realize that this thread will either get locked,deleted or stuck as far back as possible on the hope that nobody will ever find it.

In general, Pixologic has not been locking threads when people ask questions about 2.5. Here's one (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=35520) for example.

[javierloredo]

Hey Mrgrey!
Ill be attending Siggraph this year and if I see that they showing any updates Ill be more than happy to share it with you and others here. Just be happy and enjoy 2.0 untill we get the great 2.5 update. :)

Have a good one guys!

Javier Loredo.

[lemonnado]

Funny how many assumptions are being made without ANY solid information.

The only thing I was a tiny bit upset about is that one of the reasons why I bought ZBrush was the upcoming posing/rigging feature. But then... as time whent by... it would not have been the tool for what I tried to do. So, for now, 2.0 is exactly doing what I need it for. I just hope the next version has some 'great new features' which make that part I am using obsolete in favor of functions I cover in other apps hahaha.
Lemo

[Blaine91555]

I'm plenty happy with ZBrush as it is now and have no regrets about the purchase, but in all fairness, the original “Roadmap” post did say it would be released at the end of last year and the original message was altered and is now locked. If there are angry people it would be fair to say that it is in part due to the premature announcement and failure to keep customers informed. On the other hand though, they have been making regular releases that amount to an upgrade. They must have a good reason for the silence. I think there would be fewer backlashes if the powers that be had not gone underground and left their moderators hanging out in the wind with nothing to say. It is not unreasonable to expect them to keep their customers informed. It is unreasonable to expect people to not ask questions when there is nothing but silence. The only way to stop these threads is to answer questions. If they are not willing to answer questions then nobody should be upset if these questions keep popping up.

Javier - I have read all of these threads. They have one thing in common. No answers to reasonable questions. Pixolator seems to have vanished into the ether. Bad marketing ploy. Creates lots of negativity with existing customers. It only takes a moment to make an announcement and when it comes from a respected person it can make an extreme difference in public relations. Everyone appreciates it when the top dog takes the time interact with the customers. In this case it would mean alot to hear an explanation about the failed "Roadmap" from the top. People are very forgiving when they feel like they are not being ignored. "The customer is always right" is the "Roadmap" to success.

[MrGrey]

Javier - any info would be appreciated, and yes I am happy with 2.0

Lemonnado - people make assumptions and guesses to fill in the gaps where no real information has been given

Blaine - I agree wholeheartily with everything you said. People don`t like being left out in the cold without explanation: a simple `we ran into problems` or `2.5 will definately not be released until FILL IN YOUR DATE HERE` or even a `my dog ate it` :confused: (ok, maybe not the last one, but you get the drift). We are the customers. We don`t own the company, but we are at least partly responsible for it`s success, which is not to detract from the wondrous piece of digital engineering in the form of Zbrush 2, but if we didn`t buy it, no matter how good is was, then where would Pixologic be? It was, after all, Pixologic who announced `the roadmap`.

[cclyde@velocitegroup.com]

Hi all.
I'm one of those old f**ts that has used computers since the max ram
available was 4k, (no, not 4MB, 4k)
I have used almost every major graphics program that has
come (and gone) along.
I am an artist by trade, a IT guy by necessity and I own
and operate a digital studio in Markham ON.
As a business person I can tell you, forecasting and fulfillment
involves far more than writing and testing code.
Marketing involves far more than keeping your customers informed.
But most of all, I can tell you that ZBrush is such an incredible
leap forward in the industry that I am in awe of the companies
ability to get as far as they have without being swallowed by
so many other giants that would stop short of nothing to
get the rights to the code.
Have any of you heard of PostScript?
In 1982 John E. Warnock developed a little "device independent"
code that would draw lines, boxes and a few type faces.
In 2005 his company (Adobe) reported gross profits of 1.8 billion.
His code allows me to do (by myself) what used to require
15 to 20 people in the printing industry in 1982.
And I can do it in about 1/1000 the time.
What Pixologic is up against is beyond most of us to
comprehend. But what they have accomplished so far
is changing the CG world as radically as postscript changed
the print industry back in the eighties.
I think we all want to be a part of that experience and
enjoy the creative freedom and productivity that comes
with it. But let's cut them some slack and enjoy the ZBrush
we have. I dare say few have mastered ZB2 never mind ZB2.5.
And one more thing.... if pixolator himself said "we're having
a few set backs we will release ZB2.5 soon", we'd all still
be asking WHEN? So the best response to our questions
is to just do it, not waste time explaining why it's not done.
I think that's exactly what they are doing.

[Nemoid]

THo, some little info for users on how works are going from time to time could be a benefit. lets say.. once a month?

[Blaine91555]

I like what they are doing at Nevercenter for Silo. The release was delayed but they are giving little updates as to exactly what they are doing and why. I find that kind of devotion to customers very appealing and commend them for it. It probably only adds 5 minutes to one persons day.

[Antimorph]

...help

[--E--]

I haven’t really seen any of the upper ups discuss much of anything that has to do with 2.5 at all until I saw ryankingslien's post on cgtalk...

its not much, but its SOMETHING! :)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=370436

[ryankingslien]

You are too much! :)

You must have found that minutes after posted. Does it really say anything that Aurick didn't say before? As you see in the response, it is a never answered question till 2.5 is out. Lets all relax and get back to sculpting. I mean check out the stuff Boozie Floozie has been doing lately! Fantastic stuff! The sculpting and painting is the key and lord knows i need to be doing more of that! :)

r

[wckedsunny]

All of you are showing basic Human tendency- greed. :td:

Give you a piece of Gold and you want the whole treasure. :D

Guys learn to have patience, thats the virtue of life. ;)

[bicc39]

Mr. Kingslien, this is by nature of an apology.
Ain't many making them, so I will give it a shot.

Old expression: "don't shoot the messenger"

Have seen you in New York and at a few shows.
You and Aurick do a great job with assisting members with
their problems and doing what you can to support the software.
You and Aurick are also the people out front where we can get
at you.
For that reason you are the recipient of the impatience ( and rudeness)
of the people who are eager for the "new toy"

You do not make the policy, nor, if I am correct ,are the people who
are directly involved in making the update.
Or are you responsible for the delay.
I, personally ,am one of those to whom Z2 is a delightful mystery.
If you gave me a test on the present interface and functions I do not
how well I would do.
Nor am I alone.
But like a child, I am eager for new plaything.
I would like to think this eagerness has not lead me to forget my
manners towards anyone.
Especially someone not responsible for the problem.

[ryankingslien]

Very kind of you bic39 but no worries. All is good. The internet and forums like these have really changed the way we all communicate and I understand people want instant feedback.

I just hope everyone understands that instant feedback is mostly possible at McDonalds and at places where they are not making ground breaking innovations but, instead, making things that were already made and just adding a twist. ZBrush, from my perspective, is an impossible product to respond to in this sort of instant feedback way because it is focused on innovating and getting to that elusive goal where there are few, if any, technical considerations and the art is primary. Not to mention trade secrets exist for a reason. ;)

In a sense, the program itself is a peice of art. If you have ever met an incredibly focused programmer you might agree that they are very much artists and, perhaps, the artists of our century who will be remembered in the books. As a work of art, ZBrush seems to be something of a virtual world that can be explored and lead you to new discoveries. This is in contrast to the prevaling notion that software is a product that should deliver a specific good to a specific person at a specific time.

That is fine for banking software but we need only look to google and other trends to see that software has the potential to become more and more a virtual community and less a simple product. ZBrushCentral is an excellent example. My 2 cents, for what its worth.

Thank you for the kind words. They are always helpful in these interesting times. :)

I hope you'll make it to Boston. Stop by and say hello. We don't get to see you east coasters often. :)

Ryan

[wckedsunny]

Hey Ryan

What about us- opposite of the world map east coasters ?

When you meeting us ? ;) Visit India someday.

Zbrush has a lot of potential In India as well, but no professional trainers and almost no institute supports it.:cry:

I am planning to launch an institute here specially for Zbrush but after release of next version with rigging added.... and yes after my comic release.

Zbrush is surely not a product but a revolution.

I was almost going to shift my career because I was bugged with interface and complexities of max and maya which were very time consuming and being bad with drawing on paper I almost had no choice but to change my career field.... and then Zbrush came in to rescue. - something which helped me to bring my dreams and visualizations alive.

I just wish I had come to know about z earlier, but never mind everything happens at the right time.

Need to thank you and specially Aurick for this as he has helped me out a lot in last 6 months.

I have even started learning programming so that I can create few zplugins using zscript.

Zbrush 2.5 will be a major breakthrough, take as much time as you need but create a blast wave with it in art field.

regards

[aminuts]

hiya Ryan,

I do believe in your frustration, you found the words to express and satisfy both sides of the coin. If not well the grumbling few should re-read them.

"As a work of art, ZBrush seems to be something of a virtual world that can be explored and lead you to new discoveries. This is in contrast to the prevaling notion that software is a product that should deliver a specific good to a specific person at a specific time."

I understand all to well the holy crap I have this great idea for a program but where do I begin thoughts. I bow to Pixolator for having not only the same thoughts but the wherewithal and patience and skill to not only begin that project but take it to places I never could have imagined my dream graphics program would go.

I can't even imagine being Pixolator right now. I cannot imagine the pressure one must feel to better one's best. Especially when it's not only historically ground breaking but changes how the world works. How cool is that?

A person can see this as a challenge or be overwhelmed.

Seems Pixolator has taken it as a challenge and is running with it. I for one, not only applaud that, but think that after the next round....I will demand a Pixolator interview by you about the psychology of being steps ahead in terms of putting thought into action, innovation. Yet keeping such a small team. Yes, innovative, challenging like a Google to MS, but still not giving into what must have been and seemed like dream offers for one's work.

I applaud Pixolator and his mates for not letting go of their dream. How can you sell your child when they still have some growing up to do? Not many folks would have been able to resist that. Not many folks would be so willing to stand behind their dream as to continually (so far) not only improve it beyond our end user dreams but continue to offer those of us who bought into it and believe in the same dream to continue on the same path freely, without further digging into the wallet. That thought, alone should be enough to make us sigh with contentment and be as happy as fatted calves for slaughter that we have had the best food for our talents and anything more would only be icing on an already never ending gobstopper.

I am content in knowing I am in good hands and knowing that no matter when or how it comes, I will have a lifetime to explore, enjoy and revel in a dream I had that someone else made come true far better than I could have imagined.

[billrobertson42]

I just hope everyone understands that instant feedback is mostly possible at McDonalds

Instant feedback?

It's been more than six months since Pixologic communicated anything on the release, and it's been more than a year and a half since Pixologic released the teaser videos.

[wckedsunny]

aminuts (member.php?u=8205) Very well said :D

Bill patience man some more of it wont do harm.

[ryankingslien]

Hey Ryan

When you meeting us ? ;) Visit India someday.


That would be fantastic! :)

After 2.5 is out I am sure we will be much freer to be thinking about these sorts of things. Time will tell. Good luck on the projects. :)


Bill - You are absolutely correct. :) However, my comment was directed to those who ask that pixologic have a development blog or other such constant feedback sort of resource. Sorry for the misunderstanding. It is hard sometimes to completely convey my meaning via posting in threads.


Aminuts - I felt the same way as you when I started with the company and feel it even stronger today. Thanks for the kind words. :D

Have a good sunday.

Ryan

[lemonnado]

Positive energy yields positive results, negative energy yields crap results and results created under pressure are mindless pieces of agony which cannot stand up to the expectations of anyone involved.

So, this message contains 100% positive energy and and extra shot of motivation, lot's of enthusiasm and happy anticipation.

Anybody not on the same wavelength should take their frustration and displaced agressions deep into the woods and shoot them! You will feel better when you come back out!

:D Lemo

[Nemoid]

so far, ZB is the most artistic software i ever seen for 3D.

it brought artistic gestures into a too much technical approach that is typical of traditional 3D apps. no one saw such hyperealistic models and creatures before ZB appearence on the market for sure, so, i find this great!!

now, what i hope is to see this ZB revolution go ahead, and like everyone here i'm obviously impatient about ZB news, but i have to say that in my mind i'm starting to think ZB 2.5 could be a bigger step ahead than expected. :) so u guys can take all time you need to do your job.

hey that wiki is great BTW;)

[johnny blaze]

Glad to here Pixolator has not burned out and is working toward getting Z2.5 out. Hope he takes a nice vacation onced it is out. He deserves it.