Ben kingsley attempt...

[The ripper]

Here's my attemp at doing a celebrity... there're still lots of work but I thought I'd post anyway:

Image removed temporary !

Modo & Zbrush.

The ripper.

[Elendil]

Yeah really cool :)
What is the render ?

[ashaiad]

very cool

also the SSS is nice... I didnt know that modo can render....:rolleyes:

[ahed]

Great model and texture...he looks like waxen... :tu:

[slocik]

if i had know how ben kingsley looks, i would tell if he resembles him :P

[jit_gohil]

This is very cool!
Great likeness, and a very nice render too. What renderer are you using?
Look forward to the next post on this one :D

[Moochie]

Think 'Ghandi' and add a couple of stone / several kilos.Excellent likeness, beautifully modeled. You could also turn this into Donald Pleasance .. I hadn't realised how similar their faces are. :tu:

[JFSebastian]

Looks like maya mi sss plug.

[odhinn]

amazing, great work.

[Ai02]

"You could also turn this into Donald Pleasance"

I'd second that. Thats what i thought first.
We'll see 8) ...

Great Work!!

[SolidSnakexxx]

Reall nice head. I can recognize that it's Ben by the mouth :) Great Work!

[The ripper]

Thank you all! I still have to work on the noze I guess... I started a bit the texturing:

Image removed temporary!

The ripper.

[meletis]

Awesomeness!! Very good model and fantastic face texture.

[slocik]

An i dont like the texture, i cant see a thing, but i bet its only the begining :] waiting for the final :D

[Darkshift]

Hi Jacques, it's looking great! What you use to render these days? Still working with lightwave? G2 sss? Thanks, and keep up the good works!

[yolao]

hey Jacques, i`m a big fan of your work, is WONDERFUL IN EVERY SENSE, can you please post more images of this work.

thanks

[breakneck]

image removed temp??? what that all about?

[The ripper]

Thank you everyone... here's a little render test. He still looks weird as I still need to add the eyelashes, eyebrows and beard but I thought I'd post anyway.

BenK_WIP_013.jpg

The ripper.

[ZippZopp]

hey its look really cool. i think he is a bit shiny though on the forehead, maybe the spec needs to be toned down a bit and broken up just a little bit more. the skin does feel nice though. i think the modeling of the ear needs some more work, it doesn't seem to have gotten the same attention that the rest of the face did.

i'm looking forward to seeing this progress, the shader is coming along nicely

[The ripper]

Thank you!

Yes you're right ZippZopp, I still have to work on textures... I actually haven't done any specular/reflection maps so far. I'll also have to come back to Zbrush to work on some details and do other little tweakings here and there.

Here's a little front view with a more dramatic lighting test... I definitely need to work on these eyes!!

BenK_WIP_014.jpg

The ripper.

[monstermaker]

Hey Jacques, This is looking great! I'm really liking these Modo renders. I'm looking forward to seeing the progress on this.

[ZippZopp]

ahhh, eyes. eyes are really difficult to get right. on my last few heads i spent a large amount of time tweaking the subsurface of the eyes, the reflection values etc. there are so many things that go into making them look right.

i think they need a little more reflection, maybe even add a fresnel effect. have you gone through and modeled all the eye pieces (iris, pupil, sclera, cornea)?

as for the spec on them, i've used HDRI maps for reflections because it keeps them from having that 'default' circular specular highlight. also, what i like to do, is add a little piece of geometry, a thin tube, along the bottom lid where the eyeball hits the lid. give that a fully transparent material, and turn the spec up on. it gives the eye a nice wet look. i've attached an example from a previous piece of mine so you can see. you'll see a little bit of spec on that bottom lid and it really helps to set the eye off and make it look wet
eyes.jpg

[ZippZopp]

oh and here is the shaded view so you can see the piece i'm talking about

eye_shaded.jpg

[jantim]

"Great skin and eyes on the model" ...and it looks Ben Kingsley's but in a strange way !..Could be that Ben has aged more then i thought, the head looks so "soft" if he has molten bones in his head and a flabby skin....the lower half of his face looks to soft and "puffy" .....at this stage it looks more like a study of an older man then a realistic Ben Kingsley !

jantim

[John Turner]

Nice ripper, I think the eyes look very cool already.

Zipp - that sliver of goop along the lower lid is a nice detail, thx for sharing.

[shserge]

I feel just envy, what a cool shading and model!
What soft have you used for rendering? Btw, I would like to have some tutors about such lighting :rolleyes: :tu:

[Dezz]

yes there is something to improve on the eyes, I think the problem comes from the modeling of the lower eyelids, they look too rigid and not in contact with the eyeballs, other than that I think these eyes are very nice.

anyway this is the best head I've seen from you, I love the nice subtelty of the modeling, keep going !

[JFSebastian]

what software did you use to render?

[The ripper]

Thank you Rick... totally agree... Modo is awesome!

Thanks ZippZopp, I'll check it out.

Thank you jantim... I see what you mean, I started a bit on that one but still need lots of work anyway.

Thank you John Turner, I have some ideas to improve them though.

Thanks shserge, the lighting is rather simple... HDRI+Keylight and rendered in Modo.

Thank you Dezz... you definitely right about the lower eyelid... I already started to work on it as well.

It's rendered in Modo JFSebastian.

I'm going to stop working on the lighting and shading for now... I really need to get back to Zbrush and the textures before I go any further with this wip.

BenK_WIP_015.jpg

The ripper.

[venomize]

Nice work, very well done!! Something about it doesn't feel like Ben Kingsley to me though. I think it might be the eyes, you have them sloping downwards, in the pix I found of him, his eyes are very level across. Just my 2 cents. Unless he's really aged recently and his eyes started drooping and I just haven't seen him lately. Or maybe it's just the angle you rendered him at. :)

[JFSebastian]

Beta tester of modo 201?

[The ripper]

Beta tester of modo 201?What do you think JFSebastian? I'd say It was rendered in Modo if it's not !?!, I'd actually be beta tester and post on a public forum without being allowed to!?!... don't take it the wrong way but what kind of question is this? Yes I'm Modo 201 beta tester and I'm allowed to do this.

The ripper.

[Darkshift]

hey...what kind of attitude is that, dude? i think sebastian made a legit question, cause, erm, modo at the momment doesn't render right? actually i was suprised myself, when you said it was modo...just hold your horses mister.

[The ripper]

I hope that you'll forgive me Darkshift but I'll pass on that one!

The ripper.

[JFSebastian]

Very humble...:confused:

[The ripper]

Very humble...:confused:You know what JFSebastian, I'm sorry... my reply was a bit harsh but you have to admit that your posts are a bit weird!
Your first post was... what renderer? I tell you, it's Modo... You then asked me if I'm beta tester... how could that have been otherwise?

I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets a bit tired about these kind of questions... I'm definitely convinced that the renderer you're using is not going to make you a better artists and that's probably why I over reacted.

I hope you accept my apologies.

The ripper.

[JFSebastian]

I'm definitely convinced that the renderer you're using is not going to make you a better artists and that's probably why I over reacted


I'm a lightwave user and at this point i don't have micro-displacement, sss, and ambient occlusion. I understand that is not the software, but you have to agree that this features really help! :)

Btw, nice work.

[The ripper]

Yes that makes sense JFSebastian and I kind of agree but I used lightwave for 10 years and I could manage to do interesting things with it anyway.

I won't upgrade to LW 9 for different reasons but if that's for micro displacement and SSS, I guess LW 9 is what you need. My workflow is now Modo and Maya... until we can animate with Modo. Even though I can't say much about it, I'll stick to Modo as in my opinion, the micro displacement, shading and render engine are the best I've been using so far... and that's only the begining... trust me!

After I left it for a couple of days, I could come back with a fresh eye and rework a bit on the likeness... I think that's a bit better... special thanks to jantim!

BenK_WIP_016.jpg (javascript:zb_insimg('33611','BenK_WIP_016.jpg',1 ,0))

With all these changes, I have to redo the displacement map so it's still quite weird so far but I think the next update will be better.

The ripper.

[JFSebastian]

Yes it's looking better, it's bit weird looking with the eyes dryer. Honestly, i think these likeness "challenges" are a bit ingrate both to the artist and the viewers...Personally, if i want to see Ben Kingsley, i want to see the real person in a movie acting breathing, not a 3d representation of it. I compare this kind of works to the artists that do portraits in the street for 50 dollars...But it's like anything in life, you probably love it or hate it. For me art it's about new concepts, new creatures, and worlds...

[Dezz]

well I think it is a very nice excercise to better understand human anatomy because you have to catch the personnality of a character by the many subtelties that make the character alive, which are sometimes small features that wouldn't have thought of without reference.
Trying to match precisely the reference pushes you to discover more of these.
makes you conscious how each face is completely different and why.

I agree with you when people do a quick likeness heads, I find these works very useless, but I think rippers work is very interesting because he gives so much attention to every detail that the character definately feels alive in the end.

to me this is very beneficial for the artist even more if the work is shown on forum like this one because people can recognize the characters wether they are artists or not, so every opinion is interesting.

[The ripper]

You read my mind Dezz, what I'm interested in right now is to improve my skills and I find living things (human, animal, etc) more challenging than stuff like buildings, cars, etc. I guess when I'm ready, I'll try something different but I'm just not yet. I think it requires a lot of practice to become good in 3D and human is probably the hardest thing to make it look correct or realistic. I was wondering JFSebastian... what kind of stuffs do you do? I'd be interesd to see what is art for you. Thank you.

The ripper.

[Dezz]

You read my mind Dezznope, I just share the same interest for realistic cghumans so I totally understand the purpose of you work. ;)

one question about your color map, do you paint everything in zbrush or still use a 2D app? (photoshop or whatever..)

[jantim]

what I'm interested in right now is to improve my skills and I find living things (human, animal, etc) more challenging than stuff like buildings, cars, etc. I guess when I'm ready, I'll try something different but I'm just not yet. I think it requires a lot of practice to become good in 3D and human is probably the hardest thing to make it look correct or realistic. I was wondering JFSebastian... what kind of stuffs do you do? I'd be interesd to see what is art for you. Thank you.

The ripper."Ben's looking younger and more in shape in his last incarnation"..Ripper !
I can fully understand your dedication to realism in modelling the human form & what is even harder : Making a likeness of a living person !
And because it's so difficult it is a challenge..just as climbing high mountains !...But i guess JFSebastian is above this sort of useless persuits
: If he wants realism he takes a photograph and if he wants to go to the top
there is alway's a lift !;)

jantim

[venomize]

Hey Ripper, good improvement!! This definitely is feeling like Ben Kingsley to me now. The change in the structure around the eyes is really pulling this together. :tu:


Personally, if i want to see Ben Kingsley, i want to see the real person in a movie acting breathing, not a 3d representation of it. Then I suggest you go throw on "Gandhi" and stop clicking on this thread so often. ;)

[gpepper]

Hi Jacques !
Cool work on this head ! I think you've done a great job.
My only crtitic is that it don't look like Ben kinsley so much. I think the head is too large.
Continue, You're on the way !

[toonafish]

wow, that's the most impressive render I've seen so far from 201 !!

I did not recocnize Ben Kingsley right away, but the last incarnation is definately going in the right direction I think. Maybe he needs to be a bit skinnier ? But that's of the top of my head...

keep it up.:tu:

[gpepper]

wow, that's the most impressive render I've seen so far from 201 !!

I did not recocnize Ben Kingsley right away, but the last incarnation is definately going in the right direction I think. Maybe he needs to be a bit skinnier ? But that's of the top of my head...

keep it up.:tu:

I think this is maya render with Mental ray... Am I right Jacques ?

[The ripper]

Thank you everyone for your comments and tips!

No Dezz, I use Zbrush for the base texture, I also export a cavity map so that I can see better where details... wrinkles and such are on the face, I also use that cavity map to paint extra details in PS. I finally get back to Zbrush to fix some of the seams I may have.

No gpepper, toonafish is right... this one was render in Modo 201... I left mi_SSS aside for a while and I was busy doing lots of other things.

I think you're all right about the face being a bit too wide... parts of it have been fixed but as I changed lots of details, I have to do a completely new displacement map. I'll post an update asap... Thank you again!

The ripper.

[gpepper]

No gpepper, toonafish is right... this one was render in Modo 201... I left mi_SSS aside for a while and I was busy doing lots of other things.

Modo can do that ? Cool ! It is becoming a software to count on !

[phillawson]

Very impressive as always Jacques. ;)

[The ripper]

Thank you gpepper... Yes Modo 201 can do that and much much more!

Thank you Phil ;)

Little update:

BenK_WIP_019.jpg (javascript:zb_insimg('33612','BenK_WIP_019.jpg',1 ,0))

C&C are welcome!

Jacques.

[gpepper]

Excellent ! This render is great !
Did you reshape something cause he looks like Ben better now...

[jantim]

"Yes...a very fine render !" Ripper, did you make the area round his lowerlip and chin, less prominent or is that caused by the setup of the lights ?..its looking good !!

jantim

[Elendil]

It's really an impressive work ;)
I like it :)

[Plakkie]

Really convincing skin and eyes!!

[The ripper]

Thank you everyone again!

Yes gpepper, I definitely work a lot on details to get the likeness a bit better... the only problem now is that, the old displacement map, breaks a bit all the changes I made, my guess is that the next one will be better... fingers crossed:)

No I haven't touched these parts jantim, I guess that might come from the lighting then!

Jacques.

[roger]

Looks great Jacques! :tu:

-R

[Maxter]

Really nice work...looks very natural:tu:

[The ripper]

Thank you everyone!

I've just started the new displacement map, I still have to work on it a lot but as I also worked quite a bit on the likeness, I thought I'd post this little update. The lighting still sucks but I'll make a nice one when I'm done with all the rest:

BenK_WIP_021.jpg (javascript:zb_insimg('33613','BenK_WIP_021.jpg',1 ,0))

C&C are welcome.

Jacques.

[gpepper]

Great anyway !
I think some extra tiny bump should be cool to give skin aspect. To see more the detail of the skin, pore and wrinkles...

[jantim]

Wow...Ben has lost a lot of weight, even his shirt seems to big for him now !
He's looking fitter now and less tired !.very good !:tu:

jantim

[Darkshift]

Hi Ripper.

Honestly i prefer the previous version of him, but let's wait for updates.


BenK_WIP_021.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:zb_insimg%28%2733608%27,%27BenK_WIP_021.jpg%2 7,1,0%29)

full_suspect.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:zb_insimg%28%2733609%27,%27full_suspect.jpg%2 7,1,0%29)

[guillom]

Amazing work here !!!

though i think his cheen needs pull up a little bit ( maybe it's the perspective ! ) :p

really good improvement on the modeling from the first one

I like you render as well

keep going

[The ripper]

Thank you all again!

Here's an update... I've just started the Shave part:

BenK_WIP_025.jpg

Jacques.

[alexleia]

wow!! really great work!!
congratulations
Alex Oliver

[eddski]

very realistic, nice work man.

[Voidmonster]

This is really shaping up nicely! The form still isn't reading quite right to me, but likenesses aren't my bag and I can't offer anything more concise than that, I'm afraid.

A minor tech hijack: are you using Shave from within Modo? If Joe's ported it to Lux's renderer, I may have to break down and buy it!

[slocik]

i liked the prowious version more :D but still nice :]

[rookie-z]

really nice job, Jacques. Hard to tell from the angle difference, but it seems
the crown of his head needs a little fixing (taller, more narrow up top, or
straighter up from the ears instead of tapering out from them) and maybe
some work on the bridge of the nose (narrower near the ridge line). Possibly
the eyes could be a bit more narrow as well, and the brow out further in
z-direction. Kinda nit-picks, tho. ;)

Again, good stuff, no doubt! :) Here's a little side-by-side, even though the
head tilt angle is different:

benny3al.jpg (javascript:zb_insimg('33610','benny3al.jpg',1,0))

kind regards,

rookie-z

[Bobina]

that's fantastic work. I agree that there are a few things a tiny bit out (the face perhaps little bit narrower, & yes crown of head higher - forehead's def not big enough), but all in all a superb likeness. Also I think the chin might need to come up slightly, but that might just be the angle. And the mouth is perhaps too curved? In the photo his mouth is quite straight & then kinks on the left. Again though could also be the angle.

well done!! :tu:

[Moochie]

The quality of the skin is simply breath-taking. But for me the most astonishing part is the detailing you've added to the shirt .. the subtle and totally realistic undulations between stitches that only occur after a shirt has been washed. :tu:

[odhinn]

That is one of the best SSS shaders I have seen so far on the forum. Great job.

[Sebcesoir]

Awsome, as usueal.
Terrific rendering!

[odhinn]

Ripper:
Quick question, if you have already answered this I apologize.

I noticed certain pieces in the Modo gallery that were not sculpted in Modo 201, just painted and rendered. The site didn't mention this but it kind of gives the viewer the impression that the base mesh was done using only Modo.
I was thinking of getting 201 but I wanted to know if organic shapes like head studies could be done easily.
Did you sculpt this piece entirely in Modo?
Thanks bro, really love your work.

[KsiKsu]

thats right man i know people that would kill fur such a wonderful skin shader

[Mvijfwinkel]

Lovely!

The eyes seems a tiny bit too big, giving him a bit 'fishy' look. Other than that, perfect!

[sumpm1]

This is great! Although the forehead wrinkles look great, it seems that they could either use a little variation throughout, perhaps smoothing, or smoothing a couple down the center of the face.

Great work

[freshdb]

Really awesome work! Your art always inspires me. :tu:

[metric]

Incredible, I've always been a fan of your work!

[Dezz]

this is looking great, your displace map is much better now
but as far as realism is concerned I think the hair is not at the same level for the moment.
one other point you may not agree, I think the eyes look a bit "glassy", a sharper reflection may bring more life to it (look especially at how his right eye rendered).
hope you are gonna push this terrific model further.

[javalabala]

hi, can i ask you something, i've never be abble to do those renders, like the HDRI, SSS, etc, how do you did it or someone did it? and you did it just with the organic part of the image thanks a lot...

i like the head but it's something wrong maybe the eyes, but it's wonderful :tu:

[Darkshift]

Put some sweat!

[kaibosh]

Looks awesome.
Here's my constructive criticism.
He's a bit too puffy. His nose is too big.
He looks like he is slightly inflated.

[3DP]

Tremendous modeling. Still needs a little work to look more like Ben Kingsley though. In addition to what others have said, his eyes are a bit darker brown.

http://i.imdb.com/mptv1.gif

http://i.imdb.com/mptv1.gif

[subspark]

Without nit picking, I beleive Ben's jaw needs to be more delicate and narrower. Currently it seems too long and meaty.
Especially in comparison to the reference Darkshift posted.

Otherwise, fantastic work Rip. Your modeling and rendering talent together leaves me breathless. :tu:


Beers,
Sub.

[The ripper]

Thank you everyone!

Voidmonster, Yes likeness can sometimes be really tricky and I'm having a hard time with this one. I use Shave but I export the mesh using FBX format to Maya.

rookie-z, Thank you, I use a lot of references but the problem is that, on some he looks heavier, slimer, older, younger, etc and it's hard to catch the likeness... at least for me. I went back and changed a lot on the head but I'm not done yet.

odhinn, The model, lighting, shading and rendering is done in Modo... I use Zbrush because I'm used to it and it has tools we don't have yet in Modo. Besides, Modo painter works great to paint bump as we see a very good result in the opengl view but it doesn't really do displacement painting yet.

Dezz, Yes the hair sucks but it's because I have just started and I should have waited until it looks ok. Yes, you're kind of right, I'll come back on these eyes asap.

javalabala, I decided to work with layers as it gives a much better control on the final output. So in Modo, you can easily separate the rendering as SSS, Specular, Diffuse, etc only and then compose them in any compositing package such as DF or even Photoshop.

I totally agree with the likenesse problem, that's why I spend some time this afternoon to completely rework on the mesh and a bit on the displace. I also render some extra layers and tweak the shading a bit more. I'm not done yet but I hope this direction is a bit better in terms of likness and shading:

BenK_WIP_025b.jpg

The Eyebrows on the new version is a quick and dirty hand painted stuff on the texture, I'll get back to the Shave part as soon as I'm happy with the overall look.

Jacques.

[elarcano]

Well Ripper... it's time I jump in and say: Awesome! Awesome! Awesome! It's looking more and more as good old Ben!
Congratulations!!!! :tu:

[subspark]

With the hair, Ripper, turn on self shadowing. That will vastly increase the realism of the hairs poking out of the skin rather than sitting on the top. It will also give the hair depth.

Nice work. What about that jaw? Do you agree with my last post?

Cheers m8.

[odhinn]

Ripper(Jacques),
Thank you for clarifying the pipeline. I will have to try Modo.
Your last pic posted is even better... I am really impressed with your model and render. Great work.

[k0sm1k]

It looks so real it's starting to get creepy.
So.. in 3D if it's creepy, it's awesome.

[VVDFX]

beautfull work, very realistic.

[kaibosh]

It looks really amazing.
My "fresh eyes" are thinking that his nose is too wide. Not at the end but up in the middle and bridge. It is a bit bonier and thinner.
Also, the indented line that runs down each cheek should be deeper.
Not the wrinkled line but the general dip that runs from under the eye to the side of the jaw. In the pictures in this thread of the real guy it is deeper.

[Giantsun]

Great stuff.
Nice to see 3d artists mentioning using DF. :tu:

[jantim]

Well, Jacques your taking a lot of "small" steps in creating a true likeness, but a giant leap in creating a realistic human..your renders look great !

jantim

[gpepper]

Yeah ! You've caught him !
I don't know if you did some tweak on the shape but He looks like Ben better now !

Great job Jacques !(as usual !)

[maddam]

great work man, 5* from me ;)
keep on the good work

[Maya4fun]

Bonjour Jacques, quel beau travail sur tout les points vraiment. Je ne connais pas modo mais il promet pas mal apparement.

(mini)Trad : Hi Jacques, beautyfull work in all points really. I don't know Modo but it's promised apparently.

Emmanuel

____________________________________ _

Look at my actual Thread (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?p=281001#post281001)

[Drummer]

great work man !
the likeness is amazing, keep it up :tu:
5*

[javalabala]

thanks ripper, a lot, now somebody knows how could i do the sss, specular etc, but in max? thanks to anyboby who can answer me that. Oh ripper, this guy rocks, :D

[PaulyC]

Mudbox or Zbrush? heh

Discovered Mudbox beta today and noticed in their Gallery a very life-like Ben Kingsley, hey I recognize that artist I thought.. So whats up? Is this a little mis-advertising on their part? heh Mudbox looks like it could be a cool modeler alternative to Z.. but havent tried it yet. Sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere.

[mykyl]

He recreated the model in Mudbox.

Cheers

Mike R