mostly interested in ZB modeling: question

[shokan]

I will not be using pixols, I just want to explore ZB modeling for export. Can someone point me to a tutorial for this and also check out the image I (hopefully) can upload here. This is the type of thing I want to do. Is ZB capable of this, easily? Any suggestions welcome, thanks. http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1027770456mcf.jpg

[NOITAMINANIMATION]

Define easily. Have you taken the time to seriously evaluate Zbrush? From personal experience I'd say you could do this quite easily in Zbrush after taking the time to understand the application. I would suggest checking posts on the board from Southern, Aurick and Pixolator to view the possibilities. Especially Southern as he usually posts the time it took and a sketch. A real motivator. As for export, I assume Photoshop, thus yes. If anything else, you may have issues, although the new version may solve some of these.

[shokan]

I am a dumb ass about this stuff in general. I will take your suggestions about ZBrush tutorials by individuals. No, I haven't explored much about the program (v1.23) but looks like that's where I'm heading. Been working mostly in Amapi. Here's the best I could achieve, with a lot of work, using that program to achieve a raised crease effect... just way too complicated/time consuming and it would never be easily or ever applied to the face profile image above. http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1027773538srh.jpg

Thanks for your suggestions.

[Kaz]

Here is something similar... http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000478

Though you may not be able to export it as a 3d object...

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hi Shokan
May be this one can you help too :)
http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002684

pilou

[shokan]

Thanks, very interesting. Any more suggestions welcome. I will be checking back. Nice, easy to use forum, BTW.

[Kruzr]

‘Morning Shokan . . . :)

You said: " I just want to explore ZB modeling for export" . . . If the image you posted is the type of an object you want to create, & export, from Zbrush, I would have to say - Forget It! I have been using Zbrush for well over a year, & I have never seen any ONE object exported from, or even created in Zbrush, with such fine detail in the modeling area alone.

You also said: "I will not be using pixols" . . . The only way to get the very fine modeling details of an object in Zbrush, as in your posted image, is to use the pixols to create shading & or textures on the object to give the appearance of very fine modeling, & if this is was done, you would also have to export the texture created on the object, then your object would no longer be a solid color. Dark & light colors are used in texture mode = ( texture maps ), to give the effects of high & low details on an object in ZBrush.

The objects created in Zbrush are only allowed a certain number of polygons, even after dividing the object, & if you exported an object with the maximum number of polys, you would surely have a problem trying to load it into another 3D program, due to it's huge file size. If after you've created the finely detailed object in Zbrush, as your image posted above, then tried to reduce the polygon count, you would at the same time start losing your fine detail on the object.

It is impractical to try to create an object in a 3D app, with the very fine detailing, as in your posted image, without the use of a texture map. The number of polygons needed to create the fine details of the model would be far too many, & the file size would be huge.

These are just my feelings on the subject, I'm sure there are several that would disagree, & if the ones that disagree with me would just post one of your images showing that Zbrush can create such an object for exporting, with all the fine detailing as in your posted image, without using a bitmap or any pixol painting, please do so & I will admit to being wrong. Plus you will also show Shokan that he can indeed do what he wants to in Zbrush.

Good luck & have a good one . . . :cool: Mark.

[shokan]

I agree, even not knowing ZBrush well.

The only way I see to do it is to model fully and scale down to flatten, in any program.

[Ron Harris]

shokan...here is a quick script I just whipped up....just simple doofus lookin ziggy type profiles made from a 3d circle..but it shows what and how to possibly do that...
4faces1.txt (http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_file-1027784883wdd.txt)

you can model onto the circles or 3d planes or you could even make 3d models and just stack them showing their profiles only....

3d circle idea
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1027784982ktd.jpg

[shokan]

Nice, but why do those black outlines occur? Also, are these 3d models in an exportable form or ZB with pixol? The kind of modeling on these surfaces wiouild require the level shown in the face profiles above.

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hi SHokan
You have all in hands :)
If you don't sculpt
Import one photo on a 3DPlan
Modifiers Deformation Offset Z for the thickness
repeat for the 3 others
+ RonHarris method
= that you want :)
Pilou

[shokan]

You mean a bitmap greyscale?... sorry, did not understand you.

[Frenchy Pilou]

Absolutly Shokan Color Photo you shall take Intensity for make an "alpha" or grey scale photo direct :)
Pilou

[shokan]

Hmmm. I have had this suggestion before. Formidable task. It would require a lot of skill and practice. Thanks for the suggestion. Of course I could piece various elements that have been modeled separately together... thinking here.

[Frenchy Pilou]

No it's very easy :)
Pilou

[shokan]

Excusez-moi? to paint a greyscale to duplicate it's effect on a plane to get a result equal to the face profile above?! Easy? Montrez moi!

[shokan]

[aurick]

Those black edges were visible because of the lighting. A different light setup would eliminate them.

Each face would be exportable separately from within the Tool>Inventory menu. You can't export pixols from the canvas in a 3D format.

The amount of detail that you will achieve will depend upon the number of polygons. More polygons means more detail, but also larger file sizes.

You can control the sharpness of your modeling tool using the graph in the Transform palette. The default is a soft edged tool. Reversing the graph results in a sharp edge.

You can also model sharp edges by using the techniques found here in the: mini-Tutorial by Pixolator (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=003636&p=2). There is also more information on the topics of alpha masking and controlling the Transform graph in the QuickLinks.

Enjoy!

[shokan]

There is a glimmer of hope... the dges achieved in those threads seem ok for me....

Does v1.5 hold any advantages over 1.23 for what I would like to do... for export as 3d models?

[WingedOne]

To model something like what you've shown in the picture, you can model a head in the standard way and then scale down along the x axis to create a flattened bas-relief like version of your tool.

There's also another approach you could take with 1.5, but unfortunately, I can't go into detail about it right now.

[Kruzr]

Hi again Shokan . . . ;)

Here is an example of Frenchy Pilou's suggestion on using a bitmap for the final 3D object. It's applied on a "3D Plane", set to the maximum polygon resolution = "261121 polys". IMHO opinion, I couldn't use this image for anything professional.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1027790386zer.jpg

Ron's suggestion & example is very nice, but, unfortunately there is no fine detail in it at all, as you claim you needed in your first post, & examining your image posted.

Arick's suggestion is fine, using Pixolator's image for reference, although still lacking some of the very fine modeling details shown in your 1st posted image. But you also have to remember that Pixolator is the man who designed & created the program = Zbrush, & IMHO there is no body who knows the program better, or even as well, or who can duplicate his works, being that there are no step by step tutorials by him, or anyone, showing how to do this or any type of highly detailed modeling, in Zbrush. All I ever see is people saying: Oh this is very easy, all you have to do is this or that or what ever, or check out the Quick Links at the top of the page . . . . . . . . . . . etc.

The only finely detailed works I've seen created by Zbrush, are the ones that are created by using multiple sculpted objects & joining them into a completed image, not only one solitaire object.

One more thing, you asked if it was going to be easy . . . . . IMHO . . . NO, as you will find out your self, if & when you attempt to create something similar to your posted image.

It is pretty much up to you, as to what you will settle for in a final object or image. Everybody has different needs & wants, so each person IS satisfied, or IS NOT satisfied with the different results. Again, this is only my opinion. :rolleyes:

Anyway, as I said in my earlier post . . . Good Luck & have a good one . . . :cool: Mark.

[Stonecutter]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1027795442rxy.jpg

Is this the sort of thing you meant, because if it is this was just drawn onto a 3d disk tool with decent resolution... ;)

[Kaz]

I am not a great modeler, but I have seen some pretty detailed models that could get the results you are looking for. I just did this real quick with a couple of models I had saved. Not as detailed, but the effect is close...
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1027795737bqo.jpg

[shokan]

Kaz, are these exportable 3D objects?

[Kaz]

Yes. They are full models that I have used in other projects, just squished. They can be exported as .obj or dxf.

[shokan]

I tried modeling like this in Amorphium Pro and it was NOT GOOD, although again, I am a rank beginner. I got all sorts of triangulation from the deformations and my machine got all bogged down (2X 1.2G dual AMD with 512 MB SDDRAM). Is ZB better at the push/pull and masking than Amorphium Pro, in your opinion?

[Kaz]

The only answer I can give you is that I have never been able to model anything before ZBrush. At least not to my satisfaction. It just feels more like a tool for an artist rather than an engineer.

[shokan]

Then I am going to pursue it. I am an illustrator, not too technically inclined. Thanks.

[ed_the_atom]

one of my occasional posts

Have I missed the boat here?

These models are flat exportable tools low res. They are also quickly done, I could have added more detail, and modelled a little flatter. I have no knowledge of other 3d programmes...nor wish to have.....or knowledge of exportable procedures, so I can't see the problems associated with the question asked.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1027817829snm.jpg

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1027817872yzu.jpg

[Vikki]

Ed! :D :tu: :D

[Ron Harris]

nice models and welcome back ED!!!!!!

[Belleski]

A simple solution...beautifully modelled...You da man...Ed!!! :tu: :tu:

[STiM]

Ed, that was so cool.

"uh, like this?" - I love it...


:cool: :D :cool:

[chrisd]

It is possible to achieve much higher polygon resolution in ZBrush by using "primitive" objects created in another 3D application (although the upcoming version 1.5 may overcome this limitation).

I have successfully imported an OBJ file of a meshed, flat plane with 2,500,000 polygons (yes, 2.5 MILLION!!!) and used a greyscale bitmap with the INFLAT function to modify the surface into a bas-relief. The exported OBJ was triangulated, doubling the polys to 5,000,000. This OBJ was over 200Mb in size.

I did this on a 1.0 Ghz laptop with 512Mb of ram.

While I have not tested anything with more polygons, I think ZBrush could handle it!!!

Although I cannot post any pictures of what I am doing due to the proprietary nature of the work, I would be happy to elaborate on the technique.

[shokan]

Hello Framingham; I moved from Quincy to Southern Ontario in February. I miss the salt air. I worked for the Globe.

I would be happy to get a rundown on what you briefly explained about. My flat grid shapes (with paper thickness) will be created in Amapi and brought into ZBrush, btw. Suggest a poly count for these Amapi shapes when you explain how you do what you do. Thanks!

[chrisd]

Hi Shokan,

One benefit of this method is that if you create your primitive plane object at a certain size, in real world units, it will maintain its original size when you export it from ZBrush, unless you alter the scaling on export. Note to other Zbrush users, this method is great for making VERY large terrains! Note that I have only tried this with plane objects, but it may work with others, like spheres or other 3D shapes, as well.

I just got Amapi as part of the Carrara Studio upgrade, but I have not worked with it enough to tell you how to create your object. If you can export the mesh from Amapi with quads, instead of triangles, it will make the file much smaller. As far as grid resolution try 1024x1024 for starters. This is double the current limit of ZBrush’s resolution of 512x512, and will also give you an idea of how well Amapi handles large files. (Note that the object can be rectangular instead of square if you create the mesh that way.) Creating the plane in the XY working plane should make for less work later on.

My highest resolution object was 1375x1750 (11”x14”), although I feel certain that ZBrush could go larger, if you have the RAM and a fast processor. I create a resolution that maintains square mesh divisions. (I use 0.008” for my mesh divisions, so 11”/0.008” = 1375 and 14”/0.008” = 1750). I also use OBJ format because it makes smaller files.

To import the object into ZBrush, go to the Tools palette and choose the 6 pointed star icon. This gives you the import options choices. Choose import and open the object.

At first, you may not see it in the small preview window. Try the FLIP button to flip the normals, or alternatively, go to TOOL / MODIFIERS / DEFORMATION / MIRROR, and choose a single axis to mirror on, usually Z. (You will need to click on the < > arrow symbol at the top right of the DEFORMATION palette to get the mirror option.) One of these methods usually works. Although your object may show up if you hit DOUBLE to get front and back faces, DO NOT do it … this will double the memory required for your object! Go back to Amapi (or other app) and swap on a different axis for export.

You may also get it edge on in the view, in which case you can rotate the object in the preview so that it is facing you straight on. Try using the shift key to snap to exactly 45 degree increments. It is important to get the object face forward in the view for the next step!

Go to TOOL / MODIFIERS / TEXTURE and hit UVP for planar mapping. Now save this tool! Now you can reload this tool whenever you want to start working with a fresh plane, and you have already done all the difficult work of getting it into Zbrush and prepared for work.

Now you are ready to use an alpha bitmap to apply a bas-relief to the plane. It is important that you create your bitmap in proportion to your plane object, or the bitmap will be stretched to fit the new proportions. Also note, the resolution of the bitmap should be AT LEAST double that of your plane, so that if your plane is 1024x1024, your bitmap should be 2048x2048 minimum. If you don’t use at least double the resolution for your bitmap, you will get random lines or other artifacts in your bas-relief.

Import your bitmap into the ALPHA palette, and rotate it to match the orientation of your plane in the preview window if necessary. White will result in the highest point, and Black will be the deepest, but you can reverse this by hitting NEG. Using MAX increases the range of greyscale values out in your image to use White and Black, for better contrast. For some uses, it may be better to turn MAX off.

Go to TOOL / MODIFIERS / SELECTION and hit ALP to transfer the alpha bitmap to your plane. Then go to INFLAT, turn ON Z axis (turn OFF X and Y) and TYPE in a value. I say type because in with working large objects, there is a delay with moving the mouse to change the value. You’ll have to play with different values to find what is appropriate for what you want to do. Larger objects actually require smaller values to achieve the same level of surface variation. For example, if I have objects that are 406x633, 598x848 and 973x1223, I would use INFLAT values of 57, 43 and 29, respectively to distort the surface by the same amount. The INFLAT values for a single object are proportional to the surface variation. Once you have got the INFLAT level to your satisfaction, you can hit CLEAR in the SELECTION palette to get rid of the alpha bitmap mask.

Now you are ready to export. Go to TOOL / INVENTORY and hit EXPORT. You might have to export a few times, flipping and / or mirroring, to get the object to show up in your application. I have to mirror the object on the Z axis in ZBrush when I am done with it (it doesn’t show up in the preview window after you do this). Then when I export as an OBJ, I hit TRI button to save as triangles, hit TXR to turn OFF textures (I don’t need them for what I am doing), hit FLP to flip normals, and hit MRG and GRP to turn these OFF as well. You may need to adjust these for your application.

Good Luck,
Chris