View Full Version : Newbie Challenge #008 WIREZ
12-03-05, 06:55 PM
NEWBIE CHALLENGE #8 Wirez
Everyone has seen a Meats Meier wire model .. they look damn cool and the techniques are pretty straight-forward. Recently, Bas Mazur found an even easier (and more controllable) way of doing the same thing.
Mask part of your model by applying a texture containing some black, and then turning it into a mask, or by hand drawing some masking. Hide the masked polygons, and then delete them. Store what's left as a Morph Target, inflate the mesh, then create a Difference object.
Full details, by the man himself, are shown here: http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=21455&page=2&pp=15&highlight=wire+style (post #20)
Start by storing a Morph target of your original model. Displace some polygons directly on the model, either in Projection Master using any of the geometry altering tools, or outside of PM using Draw or by Moving polygons. Then create a Difference object. This method is quicker and, I find, gives you more control over the finished effect.
Full details are shown here: http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=30049&page=5&pp=15 (post #70)
If you've worked through the ZB2 pdf manual, you'll remember the Z Logo exercise. There a 3d Z model was made, starting from a flat plane primitive. Polygons were deleted from it, a Morph target stored, then the remaining mesh was moved along the Z axis, and a Difference object was created.
Use any of the above methods (or one you invent for yourself) to create a cool wire model.
Hints & Tips
Avoid using the very highest resolution at first, because creating a difference object will add additional polygons to your model. And you'll want to be able to sub-divide at least once after you've created it.
With the Meats and Bas methods, you'll get odd polygons sticking out of your structure. You can smooth these with the Smooth tool (Draw with the Shift key held down), using Smooth in the Deformation palette, or by physically moving sticky-out vertices into line. With the Meats method, you can even remove (hide > delete) polygons before you store your Morph target, so giving you smoother edges. With the Original method, you're guaranteed smooth edges, because you're choosing which polys you delete in the first place.
After you've created your Difference object, there's nothing to stop you creating a fresh Morph target for it, making some more changes, and creating a new Difference object from that. Or you can Mark the position of the Difference object and then load a copy of your original mesh. It should fit snuggly inside it .. that's what I've done with my pic below.
You won't be able to do these techniques with a primitive (you have to convert to a proper 3D mesh first) or if your model is not at its lowest resolution level.
Scripts and Movie
Two brief scripts for ya .. one showing a way of creating hair, and another where I was just playing around. Both use the Original method. However, some of my actions in the Tool palette go off the bottom of the screen. So I also made a brief movie (no sound, divx 5.1.1 codec avi, zip 3mb). This uses the Bas method (Projection Master, Single Layer Brush, Line Stroke) and you can see all the moves.
Have fun. Show us what you've got! Back to head modelling in the next challenge.
12-03-05, 08:55 PM
12-04-05, 08:05 AM
Using Meats method.
12-04-05, 10:11 AM
Nice one, argonaut! And a touch of fog too. :tu:
Something that Meats does is to put several wire models inside each other .. that gives more 'body' to the model, and the appearance of lots more complexity. Think I'll try that myself later. Yay!
12-04-05, 04:22 PM
I've always loved meat's style so this is one I had to try myself. As I didn't have time to knck something up from scratch heres my take on it using my current WIP the Alice Cooper Head. SO I give you the Broken Alice. Couldn't resist adding some fog and depth of field lol. Its also a brillinat way of getting round doing hair!
12-04-05, 04:41 PM
Actually, that really shows off how well you've done the wrinkles and pores on the model. It looks great!
And no need to feel guilty about using an existing model for the exercise .. it's a great technique for getting extra use out of a model. I find semi-naff models from my 'back catalogue' can look major cool when given this sort of treatment. :D
12-05-05, 04:50 AM
Glad you liked it. It's an addictive technique isn't it? I'm still finding my feet using it but I have no doubt this wont be teh last image in this thread from me lol. I always belive in getting as much milage as possible from a model, after all they do take a while to do so it seems a shame to only use them once when finished.:lol:
I found the morph target and inflate (diff) version to be easiest and one that gives the best results. I really thought there'd be more people posting in this thread by now. :rolleyes: If I have time later I may try and do some disp maps and see if I can get something like this to render in Maya without it crashing on me. If my machine could handle it that could give some really intersting renders!
12-05-05, 05:07 AM
Heh heh .. it's not a race. There are several elements to the technique, and several variations. When you're new to a prog like ZB, it takes time to find your bearings and experiment. And the vast majority of newbs are very very shy. They'll come out to play when they're ready to participate and progress. If they're quietly playing along at home, then that's just fine by me. :D
12-05-05, 06:08 AM
...I have missed something in the Bas method :confused:
It seems that he used the Single layer brush, but how to use it over the polymesh ?
Of course I have replay slowly his Zscript, but even I miss something !
What is the trick for input it on the 3D Polymesh ?
outside of PM using Draw how?
I have forgetten something :(
I am rusted :)
12-05-05, 06:43 AM
i believe he used that in PM frenchy.....if you read that thread I think he states that in a reply to Ron's question on the matter.
12-05-05, 07:08 AM
I think it was the BAZ method I used my workflow was as follows:
1- pick a decent subdiv level and delet both above and below subdivs.
2- store morph target.
3 - drop to PM and fart around using single layer brush or whatever (obviously we're not using the 'color' setting here)
4 - pick up again.
5- go to morph targets and create a difference mesh.
6- pat yourself on the back for a job well done and reward yourself with beer / chocolate / your main vice (delete as appropriate).
Hope that helps to clear it up a bit.
12-05-05, 07:52 AM
Some boring fartin' around examples.
As usual forgive the compression.:mad:
Bimm the Stone
12-05-05, 07:54 AM
I want my fishtank to look like that
12-05-05, 08:50 AM
Ron had exactly the same problem during 12 launching :)
PM don't appear in the zcript text and in the Zscript!
So this joker of Bas has used the PM :D
12-05-05, 09:37 AM
Frenchy asked about drawing on the mesh outside of Projection Master .. just take an ordinary model (not primitive, but 3D mesh), store a morph target, use the normal Draw tool with Inflate or just Standard selected in the Transform palette, then Create Difference. You only need to go into Projection Master if you want nice straight lines or any of the tools you can only use in a dropped model. Example script below.
12-05-05, 09:39 AM
btw .. damned cool collection there, aminuts! Some great examples. :tu:
12-05-05, 10:10 AM
Of course you right, I have taken "Draw" as the use of the "Normal brush" :rolleyes:
So I must erased my previous line post :)
12-05-05, 10:16 AM
hey animuts how have you made this cool looking flower ?
real nice this don t look like a boring fart to me:tu:
12-05-05, 10:29 AM
Some boring fartin' around examples.
Not boring at all. Thanks for sharing. :) :tu:
12-05-05, 11:58 AM
the flower was made by taking a sphere3d and making it a polymesh. subdivide a few times...more polys the better. then used radial with xy on and ctrl-drew little dots all over...you could just use an alpha...faster. Then inversed the mask and used move to pull em out then used deformation twist in z axis....slowly in increments ....it's not hard to go to far. Then deformation>smooth once or twice.
For this one tho I had to snap shot it to fill in but the above should give you a whole petaled flower.
bimm....funny you should say that....I had been toying with the idea of doing some kind of underwater scene and while I was doing this one...I think I figured out how I wanna do it. That's gonna be by next personal project I think.
Let's see some more!
12-06-05, 04:46 PM
I decieded to try and produce an image for this thread that as well as using the technique had some sort of meaning behind it. As I had the alice head on the drive, yet again I managed to get a bit more milage out of it LOL.
The idea behind this image is that every performer puts on a face or mask to enable them to be the person that we see on stage. Hence the Alice Cooper deconstructed at the front, and Vincent Furnier (the man who IS alice) behind minus his makeup.
12-06-05, 05:20 PM
Stonking! A most excellent concept and execution. :tu:
Here's one I did last night .. I tried shrinking the mesh before creating a difference object.
12-06-05, 10:03 PM
so that's what a migraine looks like from the outside?
12-07-05, 06:00 AM
Erm...very boring aminuts :confused: ...if you say so...Great stuff and an interesting thread so-far everyone. :) :D :tu:
12-08-05, 10:40 AM
thanx for the little flower tutorial animuts!
12-09-05, 03:00 AM
Here's mine. It's obviously very simple. but I is likings it... ws_cubes.jpg
12-09-05, 04:21 AM
Ooo .. excellently smooth lines, Craig. I am liking it too. :tu:
12-09-05, 04:36 AM
Very nice indeed Craig. Plus it would make a damn good screensaver if it was moving LOL.
12-09-05, 12:03 PM
Definitely very cool Craig! I am quite jealous of those nice clean lines.
12-09-05, 12:20 PM
Thank you everyone. :D *chuffed*
12-11-05, 08:37 AM
I guess I used the Bas method sans PM.
12-11-05, 09:34 AM
Good idea to use zspheres to start off. Interesting! One of the nicest lumps of creeping goo I've ever seen. :D Cool.
12-11-05, 10:12 AM
Thanks Moochie. I have a question though. In the hand you made, how did you get the wire mesh to line up so nicely with the original mesh?
Did you eyeball it or is there a way to get zbrush to do it for you? Maybe something with multimarkers?
12-11-05, 01:02 PM
That's cool, Bill. Those materials are just bubbling away on my monitor. Thumbs up. :tu: :tu:
12-11-05, 04:10 PM
Thanks Craig. I thought yours was great. I think not much work and it would be like some sort of cool looking baroque space station.
12-11-05, 04:13 PM
bill .. yeh. Loaded the hand and got it in a position I liked. Placed a marker and saved my morph target. Used PM (single layer brush and the line tool) to make a raised grid on the hand, then created a difference object. Cleared the screen. Loaded the original hand by clicking on the marker. New layer > loaded the difference object by clicking on the marker. The two fit together perfectly. I didn't bother using MultiMarker to make the two parts editable together, as it was just a quickie. hth.
Next challenge will be up mid-week-ish.
12-11-05, 04:38 PM
Got it. Thanks.
12-12-05, 12:18 AM
some more playing while waiting for some renders
12-12-05, 06:01 AM
Hey Bill. Not sure if you mean mine or yours !! I guess mine. I'm a bit of a noob to this so I wouldn't know where to start. Still....I'll have a think.
12-12-05, 01:41 PM
Hey .. nice vases aminuts! And beautifully presented, as always. You get such great shadows on your ground plane. :tu:
12-12-05, 10:42 PM
Thanks Moochie, if you check my gallery and following the flaming link...I posted the material and lights I use 99% of the time. And 100% of the time for a nice shadow base. And if I am looking for a nice shaded pencil...crank the rays down real real low. Enjoy!
12-13-05, 09:18 AM
Hey Bill. Not sure if you mean mine or yours !! I guess mine. I'm a bit of a noob to this so I wouldn't know where to start. Still....I'll have a think.Yeah man. A good background would probably be the most important thing to making it look like a space station. Because of the scale involved you probably wouldn't need to do a lot of mesh editing. Maybe some work here and there to suggest docking ports, plus some stencil work to add windows. Then some texturing to make it a bit more interesting.
Just some thoughts.
12-13-05, 09:52 AM
Hello Bill. Interesting. I'll have a look at those ideas. Thank you very much ! :D
I've never used the stencil before so it will give me that helpful push to figure it out.
I shall keep thee posted................
12-13-05, 08:05 PM
Looking forward to it!
waves and ball.jpg
Wheee! I'm finally starting to understand and retain a few things. This uses Bas Mazur's method, with a Terrain3d turned into a polymesh, and Deco brush plus a spotty alpha to paint bumps on before the difference mesh is created.
12-20-05, 01:13 AM
Yay! Well done, havran! Very cool. Now there will be no stopping you. Once a few things click into place and ZB starts making sense, all you need to do is practice practice practice.
I see from your gallery that the last pic you posted was back in April 04. I'm really glad this challenge encouraged you out of premature retirement. Rock on!
12-20-05, 07:56 AM
Pretty cool Havran! makes me think of running under the sprinklers on a hot summer day when I was a kid.
thanks guys, I really appreciate the comments! :)
yes, I'm on the Royal Road to ZBrush Mastery now ;)
I wonder if anyone has tips about how to avoid or smooth the serrated edges, or what keywords to search for? I know these come from curves or diagonals cutting across a grid of quads in general, but what to do?
I tried subdividing of course and display>smooth, deform>smooth, transform>smooth_brush
I'll have to try the Meats method as well ... looks good for SF work like Craig Ward has done, nice clean edges :tu:
(btw, I like the low-pressure, no-deadline format)
12-20-05, 07:17 PM
Have you tried pinch? I find that using it at high z values can help you tighten up edges very nicely.
Or maybe just moving some vertices will help followed by smoothing?
thanks, Bill, I'll give it a try next round
12-20-05, 10:17 PM
try using higher subd's and clean lines in your alphas...no feathered edges.....that should help out some. Also try Svengali's Map-it plugin....it makes it easier to remap...works great with planar uv's and you can change it quick to re-map from different axis....sometimes when you don't have enough geo one way you do another for cleaner lines...don't know if that will make sense to you but a few experiments will. it also lets you quickly tile textures which sometimes helps to clean up lines on alphas or textures that aren't so crisp.....plus it's just darn fun to play with.
12-21-05, 01:07 AM
When possible, always try to follow the flow of your polygons.
As an alternative to the ideas above, I find working with the lowest resolution I can get away with is helpful, as there are fewer vertices to worry about and it takes much less time to physically move them into straight lines. Finally, don't forget that AAHalf is your friend when it comes to removing jaggies from your renders.
12-21-05, 01:23 AM
Nice work havran.
12-21-05, 01:35 AM
When possible, always try to follow the flow of your polygons.
Good advice there. Sooo easy to hit the sub-d button before you should.
thanks for all the suggestions
RE: "When possible, always try to follow the flow of your polygons." -- thanks for that, Moochie -- it seems like a key piece of advice
I was definitely going against the grain of the polygon flow, painting S-curves on the diagonal for starters, with a spotty alpha that got stretched into ovals
now I see that the idea would be to follow the polygon flow, THEN twist or deform the mesh to add curves
12-21-05, 05:57 PM
Just something I was messing around with tonight using a hide masked and delete hidden.
12-21-05, 11:11 PM
haha now ya gotta but Alice in it!
12-22-05, 03:55 AM
You know it's funny you said that, as I was nearly going to do exactly that! But as it was late and after a long day xmas shoping I thought I'd pass on it, but you never know I may do just that today;)
12-22-05, 06:00 AM
A little something for the virtual christmas tree...
Wow. That's very good! Love the frosted glass transparency.
12-22-05, 07:29 AM
Nice one Lemo......Could I ask how you get the glass effect please ?.
12-22-05, 01:26 PM
Its another sphere with a glass material and added noise. It's on another layer than the colored sphere fragments. Then switch off Flaten Layer in the Render menue and you are all set! The other layer does the trick.
12-22-05, 02:16 PM
Thank you very much Lemonnado. Now I remember reading about other layers and transparency somewhere.
12-23-05, 01:17 AM
Splendid stuff, sir.
Next newb challenge slightly delayed due to leaves on the line. Normal service will be resumed in a few days.
12-27-05, 04:01 PM
This was done on accident when importing obj. in to max, or maybe exporting back to z. dont know. some little option I forgot to check, the poly groups where all seperate objects when I opened it in to max. when I divided it in z all the poly groups seperated. wires.jpg
12-27-05, 06:14 PM
Hahaha .. a happy accident. Thanks for sharing. Cool.
01-25-06, 01:40 PM
Wow lemo! The effect is really scary! Nicecely done :tu:
01-25-06, 03:45 PM
is it maya rendering?
01-25-06, 03:58 PM
XSI/Mental Ray and model modified with ZB.
Great that you like it! I hope Patton doesn't spot it... I'm supposed to concentrate on the head I'm working on. GAHHHH those distractions...
01-25-06, 07:20 PM
And great affect this char haves ;)
keep up the good work!:tu:
01-25-06, 11:02 PM
hahaha my favorite part is his left foot. looks like most of my socks...a bit holey and toes stickin out.:D
01-26-06, 04:53 AM
Damn, we'll know everything about you!
More scary details to share?!
01-26-06, 11:11 PM
hahah sure I reverse my underwear on wednesdays.;)
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