need help on color mapping game figure!

[ZTY58D]

i have a problem...

i have a low poly man that i built in C4D that i want to paint in Zbrush. but when i paint on the surface...it paints on the opposite side of the texture as well as if it was mapped via planar. so i change UV cords to spherical...and then when i paint on the head...i get paint in in his nether parts as well!? symmetry is turned off...and i cannot seem to get the mapping right!? 3d copy works great...but i still have the same problem when i copy the side with the front!....only planar mapping works...and the others act real quirky!

is there any way to edit the UV cords so zbrush knows how to map properly?

i once modeled a low poly head and got what i wanted. but doing the whole body at once seems more difficult. does it make a differance if i model and texture the parts separetly or do it all as one piece?

cheers,

m

[ZTY58D]

here is a pickie of what it looks like...

http://wsphotofews.excite.com/035/cz/AA/fD/Rc60174.jpg

[Digits]

This object stuff is over my head but I am wondering if you have switched on the "Double" in the Tool:Modifiers palette? It may not make any difference but it will make zbrush render the non-visible side and its possible that maybe that is what is affecting you.

[ZBC Moderator]

Hi Mason,

Masking is a good way to make sure that you only paint those areas that you want.

For information about Masking, try downloading the Masking tutorial from the download page at Pixologic:

Pixologic Download (http://www.pixologic.com/index.cgi?download)

You can find information about masking in the ZBrush 1.23 manual under The Tool Palette/3D Object-Specific Modifiers/Selection Sub-Palette.

Also, take a look under 'Masking' in QuickLinks for more Masking information.

-ZuZu :)

[Kathy]

GREAT lowcount!!

I was never able to get such a nice "human" shape to my lowcounts.


I don't have an answer for you. :(

I haven't done something to that extent successfully yet myself. there is a conversation about game modeling in the quicklinks section that might be helpful.

I would think that the simpler the better in ZBrush (your comment about the successful head vs the entire body)

I'm REALLY impressed by this model.

[aurick]

I don't know if this will help you, but it sounds like it's related.

You know how when you import a Polymesh, it comes in facing away from you. Well, not so obvious is the fact that it is flipped horizontally.

I've discovered that whenever I import a polymesh, it helps to Tool :Deformation:Mirror:Y

Like I said, this may not solve your problem. But it sounds like it could.

[ZTY58D]

cheers Kathy...would love to see more of what you are doing...care to divulge in how you texturing your models?


mason

[ZTY58D]

thanx peeps!!

especially drawing troll for his lengthy posts...that really put me in the right direction..

i have found out that you cant edit UVs with zbrush :(...so i have to learn another way. southern has an example with his poser tut.

next question...

why does .obj support few polygons...cuz dxf triangulates...which increase the polygon count by a mega percentage!!

[drawingtroll]

Hi Mason...

I was a bit doubtful that my english grammar would have been good enough for a tutorial ;)

But see at least gave u some clues.

It is logical u don't get the idea the first time.

Is a complex trial and error way.

However. You can make it easier with nPHERNO mapping utility.There's somewhere a wonderful tut about it... Remember it is only for md2 format, it has 4096 vertex limit, and you will need and md2 converter, perhaps Philip Martin modeller. Or maybe can import md2 into Lith, and then export into obj. (or buy Milkshape) have not tested yet. If you're working as a freelancer for a company who has Max, then there's a pair of good free md2to max plugin importers/exporters, also for hl and quake 3 formats.I prefer md2 because is more standard, keeps model in one piece as it does with the texture.


Maybe npherno 0.76 is the version you'll find more on the web, but npherno also did a newer 0.93b version, and also for Unreal game format. There's a viewer/extractor or UT models.
there's also a npherno 3d viewer, and an md3 compiler he made also for free.

This tools don't use to have an url. They use to be in fileplanet, planetquake, q3arena and such. Go make a search. I have absolutely them all ;)

Just take care on uvs overlapings, if u make standard Uv Mapper tut in mapping...

Remember it is not the same to map a clean and prepared Poser model in Uv Mapper, whose groups have been created automatically in poser, than to make in your own 3d low pol model.

I told u you could use my technique though knowing perhaps nPherno is eaiser...but I did it because u'll so have a tech available for high and low poly mapping, and not md2-only-export.

Good luck! :)

[drawingtroll]

oh , I forgot

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>why does .obj support few polygons<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As far as I know, it should support really a lot...It is Alias Wavefront format...as far as my experience goes...it really support a bunch polys, perhaps one of the formats which allow this better.

So, perhaps, there's some error in an step you make...3ds has a polygon limit, but if obj has, have not touched it yet...

Which error message do u recieve, what it says?

[ZTY58D]

what i mean is....

model i made has 739 polys...in order to get it into Max...i have to export as dxf. this triangulates the polys...making it into a 1144 poly model :(. Now if i go into C4D which supports .obj formats...the polys dont change.

next question troll....or maybe i should resort to learning the software you mentioned. i learned tons last night on making material ids UVunwrapping. i need to somehow figure out the next step...

[drawingtroll]

what i mean is....
model i made has 739 polys...in order to get it into Max...i have to export as dxf. this triangulates the polys...making it into a 1144 poly model . Now if i go into C4D which supports .obj formats...the polys dont change.
==========================

Oops...Now I understand...seee...it is not a problem of format. The fact is that for a game engine what counts are triangles,(seems Zbrush works with wuads as you say) as far as I know. For them, a cuad is just 2 triangles, ok?. That is it. Well..I see I didn't have a slow glance at the shots...I should have understood..I use to model my low poly models in only-triangles softwares...or if not, I triangulate them sooner or later, in Truespace 3 SE given in a magazine or use some free dos comand line to make it. I think Zbrush has got it in tools modifiers? Perhaps...i choose to model with triangles from the beguining. For this about optimisation. Well, mine is about 1300, don't feel sad. That's near quake 3 standard I think, and sure you can merge lots of vertex to make it lighter.Joining them and using "turning edge" available in some freebies, you could reude it. O r even better, reduce them in Zrbush with Optimize, if I'm not wrong...


Quads however are better for high polygon stuff, which is probably Zbrush geared to. because in animation, they bend better, and because smoothing use to eork better. but perhaps you can triangulate model in zb , maybe some one here knows.And then you'll continue your modelling-optimizing.

The trick, indead is to get round volumes and shapes using triangles and edge turning method here and there...You got to be able to see the model continuously in normals-smoothed kind of view so u know all the time that smoothing will hide sharp edges. For that , turning edges and avoiding sharp things , is the key.

I know there is also, however a tool, free also, called detriang. You can use it for go back to quads , though for low pol, I don't see the point you may wish it. PcPlus mag is still giving truespace 1 online. Go there , it is yet in most popular downloads section. But I don't know if it had triangulate option. However, ZB perhaps has it, and maybe a funny way if not to do it is save as dxf and reimport later on. ;)

You had not 739 polys, you had 739 quads, so you had double the number of triangules which is what game dev people use to call polys. It is more things to calculate for game engines.
I really thing that keeping all the detail you can retouch a triangulated version.

And even lower it to let's say less that 1000 polys, which is great. :)

[drawingtroll]

next question troll....or maybe i should resort to learning the software you mentioned. i learned tons last night on making material ids UVunwrapping. i need to somehow figure out the next step...
===========

sorry, forgot this...

And sorry I will write at speed of light so many typing errors are expected, but should be able to understand the idea ;)

I explained full method with Uvmapper/lith, etc......


So I don't know if u're using Max, Truespace, Zbrush, Milkshape, Anim8or or what to model or asign material Ids

BUT...the trick is that once you have assigned diferent materials (no bmps textures, just a plain color material) to each selection of faces (once assigned, hide it to keep it easier, at the end , show all) in a 3d package like Ts 3 SE, or max or whatever that does it...you then save in a format that retains material info (note: this is NOT mapping info yet...themodel yet don't need to have uv coords, and the material can be funky colors,(to distinguish well between areas visually) they are just to make Lith or UVMAPPER distingish, detect, between different mapping per areas ~ groups ) ...let's say..perhaps 3ds (if export is well implemented in your package) , obj, x, or cob. They all work for that. Now ...If you import them in UvMapper, you're done cause it takes material info. but it only opens OBJ files, the same as grouper(the tool tha perfoms and operation in model so that Lith also read that as kind of groups). And although Lith open many formats, it does not support material assignment info, just mapping and perhaps IK parts names. OpenFx free modelling package exports IK and material assignment, as IK, it is recognized this ik groups by Lith. That worked I think.

The best chance is to convert your model with materials into OBJ so that Grouper (for export to Lith) or Uvmapper (for make it there or use it to export to Lith) can deal with it.

UvMapper recognizes material assignments ,which, at the end, is like if they were really groups. So that UvMapper can give each of them individually a different type of mapping. So, no overlap, n oproblem. Skin can be created. You'll go choosing most addecuate mapping for each part.(planar cilindrical, etc)You'll also separate groups, you don't anyone over another, no overlaps, that's esential.NOt even any vertex, edge, faces overlaping inside a group (that's why is important to choose well each individual type of group depending in 3d shape it really has, and orientation).

However, I have done many techniques, many ways. That is safer when you're using freewares. One of them, was just detaching faces in Anim8or. UvMapper recognized it as group, exported it from UVMAPPER with "as single group" checked, and it seem that it was again a single solid object :? ...well...it works, so I don't worry. ;)

So you have several ways to force UVMAPPER recognize groups:

-Give a materialassignment (no mapping coords yet) to a selection of faces and save in a format which supports that info.TS seems to make it.

-Just use OpenFx freeware 3d package,(I think yoiu have to save as 3ds) make selections of faces you want, open IK window, give each selection an Ik part name.

-Use some package adding groups info , such us Poser , Max or Milkshape.


Once you have this...It is all about UVMapper, and Lith...playing with no fear with all the lith an uvampper otions..for thi matter you may prefer lith, but just once you in UV Mapper have all the objects separated..if you feel in trouble, hit TILE option , in "tools" section in UVmapper. Export into lith, there you will restore siuzes of groups and that. Remeber hide and unhide groups is the ONLY way to make something also in UvMapper and Lith.

And lastly, you know you have to export as an obj from lith or Uvmapper.

hey, if you're using nPHERNO, just use and md2 whatever the format. Milkshape imports md2. Ther is an md2 plugin for max. Or more than one. Maybe you can use also Quake Modeller 0.911b as a convertor. Or , I don't remeber if Lith opened md2...that'll be great.

Well, didn't understood well were have found the problem, don't know which procedure you're following (I also gave some links for Milkshape and Max ScareCrow tuts, so perhaps your package allows you to follow them)

tell me some more detail of the problem...

[drawingtroll]

Wow...I am a real jerk.

Sorry, read to quick.

Youhave clearly SAID you NEED to export to max.did not read it. Go and get OBJ2MAX importer.Theres another for exporting, max2obj I think. Put it so in google and should be able to find it. There are a few great places for max plugins. However I am no helping hand there,don't use to be interested in max tuts and stuff, though it seems to be the king in low pol. Don't have so many money :(((.. What I know is that ScareCrow tut I read and as far as I saw it was great tut...as his milkshape also was in that thing...is there something you don't understand there? tell me cause I read it, and it is not the same reading than doing, but I didn't see any weak point..tell me where's the trouble.


Anyway, Cinema 4d is a powerful package, they say. You should have lots of the needed tools there...