Alien Strogg

[ReplicA]

Ok, I started another Strogg, but this one is an alien. I messed around with his anatomy, so I know it doesn't look real. Also, He's far from finished. Since he's Strogg, there's gonna be some mechanical sutff going on with him. This is just the fleshy bits I have so far. There's also a lot of things I'm gonna be changing with those fleshy bits, so hopefully it'll look a lot different by the time I'm finished.

Anyway, enjoy. :D

Oh, and yes, I was VERY inspired by the interview with Kenneth Scott. I made my design before I read that interview, but still, it's quite obvious the influence is there. ;)

[EDIT] having trouble uploading images here, let's hope this works...

strogg011xh.jpg

[ReplicA]

Not really an update, but rather another render. Hope you like it.

And I'm STILL having problems uploading images here. anyone know what the problem is?

strogg025yh.jpg

[Ron Harris]

Looking good, Jeremy:tu: :tu:

I am having the same upload problems...got two thumbnails up earlier and then it was nothing but Web site not responding ...error 502 or something like that....

anyways...very kewl modeling adn good to see you back at it.
Ron
catfishmn@aol.com

[ReplicA]

I don't get an error, it just stops. Very weird.

Thanks for the comments, I'm gonna up the pics as much as possible. I really wanna learn how to do some of the stuff Kenneth Scott did with his models. I wanna get those crisp looking edges in there, and it's not quite working yet. ;)

Oh, and it's great to be back. Thanks

[ReplicA]

Alright, more of a real update. Small, yes, but an update none the less. I'm getting some of those crisp edges, but there still nowhere near what Kenneth can do... Oh, well, I'm really not surprised by that, considering the fact I'm NOT Kenneth. :D

I'd really like to up some pics, people tend to check the threads that have pics updates, and avoid the rest till they're bored. Hopefully this'll be fixed soon.

strogg034mo.jpg

[ReplicA]

Ok, I thin I'm starting to get the hang of the crisp edges thing now. They obviously need work, but seeing as how this is a WIP, I don't see a problem with it.

[finally got the pic to upload. Ron, you might try shrinking the resolution a little bit if you're still having that problem]

Strogg_04 (Large).jpg

[SolidSnakexxx]

Looking like a really cool character Great Job :tu: :tu: .

Yong

[ReplicA]

Thanks, Solid. There's still got a lot of work left to do on him, all the mechanics and things. I also need to design more of his lower half. :D And in case anyone is wondering, his stomach is hollowed out for an engine to be placed inside.

More updates tomorrow.

[ReplicA]

Ok, a little head update for ya. Hope you like it. :D

ZBrush Document (Large).jpg (javascript:zb_insimg('16425','ZBrush Document (Large).jpg',1,0))

[wierdPal]

That is gonna be one bad dude. ;)

[vivien]

cool! what's going in the stomach?

[ReplicA]

Thanks for the comments. I'm thinking an engine will go in his stomach, ot maybe some tubes, and cables and things. I'm working on his mechanical right arm right now, and I'm hoping I can get this gun to look decent. Mechanical modeling is one of my weakest areas. But I've got the design, and I don't see there being much of a problem.


more updates later. :D

[ReplicA]

Sorry for the lack of updates, I'm working on the gun, and trying to learn as much about mechanical modeling as I can while doing it. I will be updating this when I get that bothersome object finished.

Thanks for looking. ;)

[ReplicA]

Ok, I've been doing some experimenting with my mechanical modeling, so I didn't really have anything worth posting till today.

This is a render from Max of a lower poly version exported from ZB. That was done so I can make sure all the mechanicl stuff is in proportion, and in place. There's still a good amount of work to do on it, but I wanted to post this update now.

Hope you like it. ;)

Strogg_05.jpg

[pixelsoul]

Looks nice.. the shoulder seems a bit weird perhaps :tu:

[ReplicA]

Oh yeah, I forgot to comment on that...

I haven't done any size editing on the shoulders yet, I've been concentrating on the rest of the arm...

I'll fix it, I promise. :lol:

[odhinn]

Replica,
Nice work on the gun bro...

[ReplicA]

Thanks, odhinn. I'm currently trying to come up with a "backpack" type thing for him, that will have some cables that go from the arm to different spots on the pack. I really wanna change his feet too.

Anyway, I should have more updates by tomorrow. :p

[ReplicA]

Ok, a small update. I changed the shoulder armor, I'm still not sure if I will keep it or not, so I'm treating it as a place holder for now. I'm also going to be adding some mechanics around the shoulder.

I gave it a 3-second lighting treatment, just to add a little something to the pic. Hope you like it.

Strogg_06.jpg

[pinkarman]

hey!! i adore this latest render!! and also the model.. but i think the anatomy isn't very realistic..was it in your intentions?

[ReplicA]

My models anatomy is never realistic. I like the stylized-realism, rather than photo-realism. Also, I wanted to change some of the anatomy, just because he's alien. ;)

I'm glad you like the model, and the render. I'm kinda surprised it's looking as good as it does, because this version of the model is at about half the division levels of the one I'm working on in ZB, so there's a good amount of detail loss.

I'm getting farther along on the "backpack" thing, and the shoulder connection mechanics. I'm also trying to figure out how to get some cables and things in the stomach cavity.

Well, the point is, the modling is truckin' along, even though it doesn't really lookit like it yet. :D

[Zmith[21]]

:)Looking nice so far....

Did u start the Model in 3dsmax - i am interested in that part
of ya wflow - cause i just started modeling in max. pls show
some wires!

z21

[ReplicA]

Yup. I started the model in Max. I normally start out in Max, cause I like the control I have over all the parts of the model a lttle better. I'm breaking away from my normal workflow with this model, however, so I can try an experiment. I have a script that allows me to place verts across the surface of another model, which will allow me to control the edgeflow. So, I broke up the model in ZB as groups, because there's no way I'll be able to get a 4.5 mil poly object into Max for the normal mapping procedure. I plan on importing the different groups one at a time, using that script to make the low-poly object over the high res object, delete the high res, import the next object, make the low-poly over that, and so on, until I have a low-poly version that looks the way I want it to. After that, I can do the uv's, and bring the model back in to Max piece by piece for the normal map.

I know that sounds more complicated than it needs to be, but I really want to try and get some low-poly models that look better than the ones I've made before. I'll let you know how it goes. ;)

[ReplicA]

Another update. I scaled down the gun arm a bit, changed the shoulder armor, put some tubes in the stomach for place holding purposes, and added various mechanical elements to him. I know I need to change the fleshy bits around the shoulder to better accomodate the mech bits, and I'll do that soon.

I wll also be adding more mechanical stuff all over, and some costume elements when I can.

Thanks for looking. ;)

Strogg_07.jpg

[abxy]

hey Rep, can I see the low poly mesh you started with?. I just want to get a general idea of that topology.

[ReplicA]

Sure, just don't be too disappointed when it doesn't look exciting. :D


[EDIT] Here you go, like I said, nothing special. When I finish the low-poly game model, it will look VERY different. Hope this is what you were looking for.


StroggLow-Wire_01.jpg

[abxy]

yup, exactly what I was looking to see. thanks mate. :D

[ReplicA]

Not a problem. Like I said, though, I'm gonna go back and make a better looking low-poly version on top of the high-res one later. The low-poly I started with isn't very efficient (obviously) for an ingame model.

Anyway, after looking at the shoulder again, and after much annoyince, I decided to change it again. Parts would collide, and become a mess if I tried to move that arm, and I really don't like that on something like this. A little bit of it doesn't bother me, but it was too much to ignore. So here's the new shoulder so far. I do plan on working on it some more, and making it a little better looking, but for now, this is what I have. Enjoy.

Strogg_08.jpg

[pete330]

been watching... it's coming along nicely - keep it going!

[ReplicA]

Thanks, Pete, for the kind words, and for stopping by. ;)

No more updates till tomorrow, though. I'll keep working on it tonight, but I doubt anything of update worthiness will come from it.

[pete330]

hey keep it going didn't mean post another now! (or even tomorrow)

just keep it going... :tu:

[sriram]

The updates are :cool:

Waiting for more "mech" parts in him:D

[ReplicA]

I gotcha, Pete, I just feel this need to update when I reply to WIP threads I start. Call it a personality flaw, but it's just the way it is. :D

Anyway, here's an update. I did some slight anatomical detailing, but since this is the lower poly version for Max, they're only hinted at. I'll be starting the skin detailing soon (I hope). I also changed his lower legs, I had the calf in the wrong place, and the third knee bent the wrong way. :p So of course, that needed to be changed.

Anyone have any suggestions for new mech stuff on him? I'm all ears, just bear in mind, I might not use your suggestion.


Strogg_09.jpg

[-WOODY-]

Most definately an eye piece of some kind. I've always fancied the "Borg" on Start Trek where they have those lense thingy's embeded in one eye for whatever reason.
I guess nowdays it would be consided a little cliche since that kind of thing is done a lot, but I still like them.

[Ron Harris]

Cy-Borgish images I found on google to maybe get yer juices flowing a bit more...

http://gaming.trekpulse.com/eliteforce2/conceptart/borg.jpg

and this one is ultra kewl....and that click for kewl costumes page is really ultra kewlies...

http://www.bluepencilpro.com/airbrushing/gallery%20page/costumes/costume-borg.html



Just some reference pics..hope you like or they help...

Your model is looking better and better with every update...a pleasure to view...

Ron

[ReplicA]

-WOODY- Thanks for the suggestion. I was thinking about an eye reticle too, but I'm not sure about it yet. I'll give it a shot, and see how it looks.

Ron Harris, thanks for the comments and suggestion. I'm he-man fan, so I thought that Man-at-Arms was pretty cool. I'll see what I can do something with those pics.

Well, no updates for now, I'm feeling pretty lousy, I think I might be getting sick... :rolleyes: Thanks again for the suggestions and comments, and I'll be getting back to this thing as soon as I can (which better be tomorrow, or I'm gonna get angry :mad: )

Oh, and keep those suggestions coming!

[sriram]

Nice update:tu: ....and about more 'mech",well,I agree about the eye-peice[I loved the scouters in DBZ:D ]....and some mech parts on his lowerparts of the body might be good[i cant think of anythnig right now...but the lower body seems too organic]

Take your time with the updates:D Its the quality that mattes...not how many updates that you've posted;)


pssst....i gave this thread a 5 star rating

[ReplicA]

Hey, thanks for the 2 sets of 5 stars. I appreciate that. ;)

I'm not feeling as bad today as I was last night, so expect an update or two today.

Sriram, yeah, you're right about the lower half of his body looking too organic, especially for a Strogg. :D I'll see what I can cook up.

[ReplicA]

Ok, I've tried giving him an eyepiece, but it didn't look good. I also tried giving him some mechanical feet, but then he started to look too much like the Cyber Demon from Doom3... I'm gonna give the mechanical feet a little more time before I decide on scrapping that idea, though.

So now I have a bit of a design dilemma, should I, or should I not put more mech stuff on him? And if I should (which I think is the case), where do I put those bits? I'm tellin' ya, I'm drawing up the entire character next time, not just the head and a couple of small ideas... :p

[pete330]

if not a recticle what about some sort of targeting device coming off the side of his head or shoulder? maybe the thigh/knee area opposite the mech arm could use some mech stuff?

edit: maybe more wires/pipes in his mid section too?

[ReplicA]

I'll be adding some wires in and out of his skin, I'm just not too sure where those should be placed. I've got a couple ideas now, so I'm gonna try some of them, including some plain old shoulder armor on his left arm that might be bolted into the flesh, and connect to the other side of the armor on his right.

More wires and pipes in his midsection is deifinitely a good idea, I'll do that one for sure. I wanna get super ambitious with this guys cables and wires and things, but that's gonna kill my chances of getting a decent low-poly model done. I'm currently starting on the Right shoulder in ZB to try and make it fit better around the mechanical bits.

Updates soon (I hope).

[ReplicA]

Wow, go away for the weekend, and my thread slips into obscurity... :D

Well it shall stay that way no longer!! For I bring updates!

I decided to give him some mechanical legs, and pelvis. I haven't started the pelvis yet, and so far the legs are at the blocking out stage still. But I like the hip joint right now, and things seem to be going a little smoother.

More updates to come!

Strogg_10.jpg

[odhinn]

Nice work man.

[ReplicA]

Thanks, odhinn.

Here's another update. The legs still need some detailing, but they're almost done. I think they really round out the mechanical stuff, and give him a nice base to be able to carry all that stuff around.

I'll keep working on it, and post more updates as I can. Thanks for looking :D


Strogg_11.jpg

[pete330]

:tu:

[ReplicA]

:D :lol:

[ilusiondigital]

Very good modelling as usual Replica, but only one crit, the armor made in zbruh needs sharpen edges, now it´s too soft.


Greets

[ReplicA]

Thanks, ilusiondigital, nice to hear from you again. :D

But, I didn't do any armor in ZBrush, it was all done in Max. So what specifically is too soft? I'm guessing you mean the thigh armor? That does need work, and I'll get to that soon. most of my time today was spent on getting things in the right places, and making sure they look right.

[Drummer]

very nice doom3 style monster !!
keep it up :cool: :tu:

[micke]

This is good. The muscles are bit over the top but I guess that's your style. But I'm not sure what is the point of those ridges on his arms.

The lower half of his legs are definitely too short (I know they're robotic, but if you ever tie that model up to a walk cycle it will have a VERY strange looking walk)

All in all, it's looking good. The "trousers" (upper legs) are great.

[ReplicA]

Thanks for the comments!

Drummer, Thanks! It's always nice to hear from you. you're work is quite inspirational, so all your compliments are doubly cool :D

micke, Thanks for posting, nice to hear from someone new. Yeah, the muscles on my models are ALWAYS over the top. :D The ridges on his arms are just a design element, meant to spice up the anatomy a bit. I'll make those legs a bit longer, and see what they look like. However, the way Ihave them now is about the same as the Hellknight in Doom3 at that thing doesn't have a weird walkcycle. ;)

Had a pretty busy day that didn't involve 3d, so that means not as many updates as I would have liked. However, I will continue working on this guy till he's done. Thanks again for the comments, and suggestions.

[-WOODY-]

I guess the real BIG question is......what the heck are you gonna do with it when you're done?

Are you going to animate it or create some kind of nasy, blood curdling, yet interesting scene?

Looking better each time I take a gander at it. Good job.


Oops, I think I know what you're going to do with it. Just been to your website. Very cool.

[ReplicA]

-WOODY- Thanks for that. Yeah, I guess you figured out I'm gonna make a low-poly version, and use this one to make a normal map. If everything goes according to plan (HA!) I'll be able to put this guy in a new demo-reel. :D

[ReplicA]

Alright, micke, I've lengthened the middle part of the lower leg to see what it looks like. I didn't make much longer than it was originally, just enough to be about as long as the lowest part of the leg. I think he looks more off balance now.

Let me know if you think this is any better looking, or would look better animated.

Strogg_12.jpg

[micke]

Hi ReplicA,

I personally think that last render looks a lot better. I might have been wrong about the walk cycle anyway, I guess if the lower leg swings up or something as he walks...

Do you plan to animate it? It would be cool to see the results.

The model's looking really great.

mick

[ReplicA]

Thanks, Micke. I don't know if I'll animate it or not, I'm not very good at animating.

I've started the low-poly version of him, and it's going about as well as I had hoped. I got the head pretty much done, it needs some clean up still, but the shape is there. I'm about to get started on the torso, so I guess I'll see what happens with that. I'm also going to be adding some superficial details to the ZB model soon, so I'll post some renders of that when I get them done.

Still lots of work to do, but it shouldn't take too long. :D More updates soon.

[ReplicA]

Well, my idea for the low-poly modeling aspect isn't really working out. At least not on a model with this many assets. I'm at a little over 11k poly's...

Hopefully, my idea for making these normal maps with models that are too dense to bring into Max, won't fail. If it does, I guess I'll just have to live with it. Oh well, It sounded good at the time. :D

[ReplicA]

Ok, I got the low-poly down to 6000 poly's. My questions to you guys is, how low poly is low-poly? I know 6000 is still pushing it, but it can be done. I mean would that be pushing it too much in, say, UE3? I know I should already know this stuff, the engine specs nowadays very so much it can get confusing.

At any rate, I'll be doing my low-poly stuff a different way from now on. That experiment just blew up in my face... :o :rolleyes:

[pete330]

i think doom 3 models were targeted at around 5000 max. done just like you're trying to do. i imagine ue3 is around the same target.

>>That experiment just blew up in my face...
no way! the model's still cool!

[ReplicA]

Thanks Pete, but it does get a little annoying when you have an idea that seems so great, then doesn't pan out...

I've worked worth the Doom3 specs before, and with that engine, 2500 poly's was pushing it for regular characters, boss's and things were around 5000, you're right about that. I know that UE3 has a higher poly limit than that, but I guess my real question was, if you're going to put low-poly models in a demo reel, how low-poly should you make them?

To make this whole low-poly thing a clearer, here's a shot of my model as it sits now. I guess since I'm still pretty new to lowpoly work, it's kinda confusing trying to figure out what can and can't be omitted in the model.

StroggLow_02.jpg

[pinkarman]

did i say that i really like a lot the legs? my compliments!!!

[DarK ZanatoS]

its getting really impressive creature, the only thing i would comment is the feet, for such an agressive creature and such destructive are kind of funny those bumpy feets, the rest is wow.

[ReplicA]

Hey, thanks for the comments.

pinkarman, I'm not sure if you did or not, but I think it's worth repeating. :D :p

DarK ZanatoS, Thanks. I'm sure they seem kinda weird looking, but I like them. I was gonna give him big, tree-trunk like feet, but that seemed a little too "anime-esque" for me.

I'm finding it hard to find a tutorial on low-poly modeling for normal maps that's any good. I find all kinds of tut's that are about modeling a sphere, or box, or some other generic model, but no tutorials that deal with "REAL" charcters. If they do have characters, they're so basic as to be non-informative. I need to figure out some of the more intermediate stuff about low-poly modeling for normal maps... It's getting a little frustrating, cause I wanna finish this guy so I can put him in my demo reel, and get on to the next model.

Can anyone help me out with my search for a decent tutorial? Thanks

[neuroticgothguy]

nice mesh, though if you're putting it on a demo reel i suggest you try and get rid of some of those TRIs and try to make them into QUADs

is it rigged?

[ReplicA]

Thanks Neurotic, getting him this far has been a total bitch, but I'm learning how to do low-poly stuff better.

He's not rigged, he's not done being modeled, and his uv's aren't done either. :D It might be a while before he's done... I did finally bight the bullet, and put him into PolygonCruncher. He's now a little over 4000 poly's, and he's not looking too bad. Hopefully the normal map will look good enough to bring those details back. I still have to add surface details to the high-res mesh as well as run the test I originally set out to do with this thing. Lot's of work, lot's of work. :D

Honestly I'm not too worried about tri's, as it's low poly and every one that I've ever seen has tri's all over it. PolygonCruncher also triangulates the mesh before it loads it, so now there's even more tri's. :D

[-WOODY-]

The only thing I can think of is to maybe simplify the weapons. I think the model itself is more important than the weapons that could probably get by on less poly's thereby keeping you within budget.

The best you could do is just fake it on the weapon detail with bump maps and texture. You also might have a hard time finding any tuts on doing low-poly for gaming, at least those that would be considered useful. A long time ago I was going to create assets for Battlefield 1942, but had a hard time finding anythng that told me what I wanted to know.

You're on the right track anyway and I think you know what to do. I guess it's just a matter of what you're willing to sacrifice.

[ReplicA]

I think you're right, -WOODY-. I always have been, and always will be, a high-res modeler at heart, so I don't wanna sacrifice ANYTHING from my low-poly stuff. If I could have a 10,000 poly budget, I would be a very happy man, but that engine isn't around yet. :D

I guess I'll just grimace, and mutilate my mesh as needed. Speaking of which, here's a render of him after PolygonCruncher sank it's teeth in. I think I'm gonna have to toss his back pack if I wanna keep the poly count low, but I'm ok with that.

Anyway, I'd love to hear some suggestions on the low-poly aspect of game character modeling. If you have ideas, or suggestions I'd love to hear them. Thanks.

StroggLow_03.jpg

[neuroticgothguy]

simplify simplify, if there are places where you could use a bump or a texture like woody said, simplify it so you can conserve polys, if anything try and keep everything as simple as possible that can be define later with a bump.

[ReplicA]

Yeah, Neurotic, you're right on that. Here's another phrasing of the question I've been needing an answer to for a while, IS there a real difference between modeling regular low-poly models, and low-poly models for normal maps? If there's not, I'm stressing out over nothing... :o

There's 2 things that run around in my head all the time, while I'm doing a low-poly model. Well, 3, actually. 1: Is this part of the mesh going to be necessary for the normal map to do it's job right? 2: Will this animate ok? and 3: Man I wish I had a higher polycount... :D

Since I'm not sure about what exactly the normal map can do on my models, I always get nervous about removing the wrong edgeloop, or poly, or whatever it may be. So far, I've had other people do the normal maps, and I haven't had any complaints about them, or about the model animating right. I guess I just lack the confidence in myself. I'm hoping this model will change all that.

I'm currently working on the uv's, so I guess I don't have as much work ahead of me as I thought. I just really wanna get this right.

[neuroticgothguy]

1. no, not really, as long as the model is crisp and has all the necessary parts modeled as in the head and where the eye are gonna go and so on.

2. if it has the necessary edge loops where the need to be it should be ok, but your model is gonna be a bitch to skin...oh yeah.

3. we all do *nods*

[sriram]

WOW ! I see lots of "Mech" in him now ! Nice job on the legs:tu:
The lowpoly model looks good too:D

[-WOODY-]

Oh, I think I understand what you're asking now. You have to keep in mind that ( and I know that you know ), normal maps only give the appearance of detail, but doesn't dissplace the surface normal.

I know that the game Far Cry and I think the newest Doom games use dissplacement maps to give greater detail to simple meshes. With Far Cry I think they start out with a model that's like 20 or 30 thousand poly's then create a dissplacement map from that and use it for the same model at around 15 thousand poly's ( trying to remember ). I remember reading about how their game engine worked a long time ago, but I'm having trouble remembering exactly how they did it, but that's the basics.

In your case then, if you're only going to use normal maps, then yes you have to model your mesh differently. You have to retain the basic mesh's geometry because normal maps wont change that and it is limited to what it can do.In other words, if you reduce your poly count to a point where you lose detail in his nose ( appears rounded and undefined ), then normal maps wont help much in that area. It may help in shading a little, but it would still be very rounded off and undefined.

I guess the only solution ( and best ) is to begin you model in ZBrush and keep the low-poly version. Divide the mesh to a point that's still within budget, then subdivide the mesh further for the purpose of creating a normal and/or dissplacement map. After that you could export the low-poly version of your model.

I have a bad feeling that trying to go back now and clean up your mesh by hand to make it more defined at a lower poly count would be so much work that starting over would be faster.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about. In the image below, this would be a typical model that you would find for most games. Even though it's low-poly, it's still well defined and a normal map in this case would add to the detail. I guess in short, no, there's really no difference in modeling a low-poly model for a game with or without a normal map. I guess it all depends as well on the particular game engine that you're creating the assets for.

From my experience, poly crunching programs are usually indescriminate in how it reduces the poly-count. Normaly those programs can really mess up your mesh, but as long as you end up with something clean like the image below, you'll be ok.

low_poly.jpg

[ReplicA]

Thanks for the help guys. I'm really hoping I don't have to start over, but I guess if I have to, then I will. It's looking like I'll have to at least remodel the fleshy bits, but I'm not worried about that at all. It won't take long, and I'd be able to correct some mistakes.

Neurotic, you seem to feel my low-poly mesh has some problems, how so? If you've got suggestions on how to make a better low-poly mesh, I'm all ears. I'm pretty willing to try just about anything to get this model back on track. If you don't feel that way, well, sorry. ;)

-WOODY-, thanks, that's a lot of info. I know that normal maps don't change the mesh itself, but are more like a bump map on steroids. My problem is, I haven't been doing low-poly modeling enough to have the experience necessary to know exactly what they can and can't do to help my models look better. I can do decent low-poly work, but not great low-poly work.

And as far as the polygon reduction stuff, yeah, they really don't treat models well. I think it did pretty good on the mechanical bits, but it kinda destroyed the fleshy parts.

It looks like I'm gonna remodel the fleshy bits, and try again. I just don't wanna give up on this thing. Once again, thanks a lot for the help everyone, I know I could use it. :D

[EDIT] Update! now this is pretty funny, after all the low-poly modeling I did to get this guy looking good, and trying to keep him really low-poly, the fleshy bits of the level 1 subdiv from ZB was lower than I what I came up with in Max, it has better low-poly topology, and it's almost all quads. :D I have to laugh at myself for this one...

[EDIT 2] After about 10 minutes work, I've already got the polycount down to 5866, with an easier choice on what to remove to get it even lower. And to top off all that other junk, I remembered I had already done the uv's for the model I brought into ZB, so I don't have to do those again... And now I'm laughing at myself even harder :lol:

[ReplicA]

I did a quick normal map test just to see what was going to happen with the current low-poly model, and besides the regular Max normal map rendering errors, I was pretty surprised by how good it looked. I've still got some poly's to drop on the fleshy bits, but that won't be too hard. I think I might be getting the hang of this stuff. :D

[ReplicA]

Back again! :evil: :evil:

I've got him down to a reasonable polycount, a little over 5k which is what one of the monsters on Gears of War has. I'm running into trouble with the Max normal mapping stuff. As you can see in this pic, there's a lot of errors in the rendering of the normal map. I still can't figure out why the wireframe is popping through on the torso, and in the mechanical stuff, all I get is blotches of good normal mapping surrounded by black.

Strogg_Normal_01.jpg

But I guess this isn't the place to talk about Max's normal mapping behaviour.

Once I get the normal maps done, I'll start on texturing him. After that he should be done, and ready for my demo reel. :D

[alannoon]

I'm guessing that you are using 3ds max R7 and that you have over lapping UV elements. Perhaps you are trying to mirror UVs in order to conserve texture space? There is a bug in Render To Texture in R7 in which where ever you have overlapping UVs, the wireframe is rendered into the map. There are a couple of fixes:

1.) Upgrade to 7.1, or 7.5
2.) Take your one of your mirrored UV elements and offset them in UV space by 1 UV "tile" (The "Relative" button down by the spinners in the Unwrap UVW Edit window is great for this.)

[ReplicA]

Thanks for the suggestions, alannoon. I am using 7.5, and the uv's are not mirrored or overlapped, and that's what's confusing me. I've done mirrored uv's before, and the wireframe popped up. I got rid of the mirroring, and it went away. Now it's not mirrored, but I'm still getting it.

The thing that's bothering me the most is, the blank blotches of the mechanical stuff. Here's the normal map that I get with Max for the mech bits. Any ideas on what I should do to fix this?

LowMechsNormalsMap.jpg

[alannoon]

Whoa. That's one ugly normal map, if you don't mind me saying so!!! :)

It should probably be that nice purpley-blue color you usually see. I'm guessing you are not using tangent space normal maps? You probably should be. (Why the 3dsmax tutorials specify World Space, I'll never know.) Even so, I'm not convinced that is the root of your problem. There are 100 ways for normal map generation to go wrong. Some suggestions, off the top of my head:

Are you using the cage to generate your normal map? A lot of people have trouble with the cage, especially on complex objects like you have there. Do your high and low res objects share the same UV layout? If so, you may want to try "UV Match" instead of the cage.

Try adjusting your ray depth. Your rays might be stopping short before they hit the mesh.

You may want to break your model up into several different elements, or objects. A number of guys in our shop do that and then composite the map back together later. (This can be tedious, but some models just seem to require it.)

...and always make sure your XForms are reset! ;)

[ReplicA]

Hehe, I don't mind you saying that at all, cause I think the same thing... :D

I'm using local space, that seems to be what Doom3 uses. I could try tangent, but I thought tangent was for stuff that's not gonna deform. I am using the cage, while my high-res flesh model has uv's, I had to rearrange them to make better use of the uv space, and the mech stuff was done entirely in Max, and I didn't bother doing the high res mech uv's.

How do you adjust the ray depth? I don't have a lot of experience with Max's normal mapping stuff, so (obviously) there's a lot I don't know yet. I'll read about it, and give it a shot.

I was thinking about breaking it up, and pasting the maps back together in PS later. I'll give that a try if the ray depth thing won't work.

As far as xforms go, how exactly is that supposed to help? I've done some normal maps (that for whatever reason went really smoothly), and NEVER touched the xforms. In fact, I've done a grand total of 2 reset xforms in my entire life. I'm really curious about that.

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it. :tu:

[kalbers]

You should use tangent space normal maps for virtually any normal map creation. I don't recommend using the cage in Max's render to texture. I just adjust the ray depth until the rays are long enough to "catch" the mesh (until you no longer have red areas when using ray-miss check).

[ReplicA]

Ok, how do you adjust the ray depth? I've gone through, and can't find anything on it. Also, why do you suggest using Tangent normals? Any specific reason?

[MAKAVELI THE DON]

voila encor une autre creation enfin c tupac beta 2.0 ba fini encore

2pac 3d on the sky 33 copy.jpg

[kalbers]

Hmm. I was thinking for some reason that you where generating the normal map in Max rather than in Zbrush. Forget what I said about ray-depth.

Tangent space normal maps are what most objects use. You would probably only use world or local space if you are making an object that won't deform, and will remain in the same orientation as it was created in. So....virtually all objects use tangent space normal maps. I wouldn't worry about what doom3 used too much unless you are making something specifically for a doom3 mod...that game used early normal map technology. I work on games and I've never seen any normal maps used in games that don't use tangent space.

Keep up the good work!

[ReplicA]

I am generating the normal map in max. If I was doing it in ZB, it'd be a snap, but this projection modifier, cage, ray depth, stuff is confusing as hell. I still haven't been able to find anything on the ray depth stuff. I don't see it in the RTT dialogue, the Projection modifier, I couldn't even find anything in the help file that comes with Max. The fleshy bits just need a little more work, and they should be ok, it's the mech parts that are killing me. But I did have this same problem with another alien I worked on for a while. Everything looked fine, except for certain parts that would always render black no matter what I did.

None the tut's I've read talk about this kinda stuff, they just do their thing, and it goes off without a hitch. I'm getting a little aggrivated here...

[kalbers]

Unfortunately the Max docs for projection rendering to texture suck.

I'm not at work right now, but as I recall, to adjust ray-depth you 1) select your lo-res object 2) go to render-to-texture 3) in the projection area, click on "options" 4) adjust ray depth in options, and turn off the cage in options.

The ray depth should be a little bit more than the furthest distance between your lo-res and high-res models. So, if your model is 8 feet tall, the gaps between the 2 versions are probably a few inches or less. If your model is 1000 units tall, the gaps might be around 20 units. Assuming you have ray check on (under 'options' in render to texture projection area), areas that are too far out will render as bright red. Simply increase the ray depth until you don't get red areas.

The seams you are getting may be from smoothing group errors. Often you want most contiguous areas to be the same smoothing group on the lo-res model.

Don't get too discouraged. Your learning tons of really usefull stuff from this model, and it may turn out totally badass. Your working method of detailing out one limb at a time, then baking it down in Max, is a killer workflow. Try baking out global illumination/ambient occlusion while rendering to texture..it will give a nice start to your diffuse texture map. To bake ambient occlusion just make a pure white skylight, turn lightracing on (rendering->advanced lighting->light tracer), and assign a white material to your high-res model.

[ReplicA]

Thanks for all the help, kalbers. I know I'll get it, I just need to keep working at it. And since I really like this model, I WILL get it done right. :D

I tried adjusting the ray depth, and I got it to where there were no red spots, but, the vast majority of it is still not rendering right. It shows up as solid colors. And on top of that, I still can't get the wireframe out of the normal map on the fleshy parts...

I think I'm done for at least a couple of hours. I've got so much going on that I can't think straight, so I keep going round in circles trying to fix the same problems with the same tools that weren't working to begin with. I don't like this idea, cause there's a LOT of pieces to this thing, but I guess just tearing it apart, and doing it piece by mechanical piece is what I'm gonna have to do. I'll post those results if they turn out ok.



[EDIT] Oh, and thanks for the tips on the ambient occlusion stuff. I do wanna texture this guy too, so that'll be a great help. One question on that subject though, do you only use the ambient occlusion maps in PS, or is there a way to apply them in Max?

[akze]

great stuff:D

[kalbers]

You can use the ambient occlusion map you bake out as one layer in a multi-layered PSD file, then assign the PSD to the diffuse map slot in Max (like any standard game texture map). Usually I set the blending mode of the ambient occlusion layer in photoshop to "multiply". Often I bake out a diffuse map while rendering to texture, with some sort of procedural material assigned to my hi-res models (like a flesh material using a Darktree Symbiont shader). That diffuse map gives me my bottom layer in the layered PSD, with the ambient occlusion layer multiplied on top of the diffuse layer. That way I have a nice start of a texture before I even start painting anything in photoshop.

[ReplicA]

Thanks again, kalbers. I'll give that a shot after the normal maps done.

akze, MAKAVELI THE DON, sorry I somehow missed your posts. Thanks for the comments, even though I have no idea what MAKAVELI THE DON said... (I tried babelfish, but that translator sucks.)

[MAKAVELI THE DON]

hello is what you to help me because I is not too well to texture cantacte me

tupac_69@hotmail.fr

[ReplicA]

Ok, I broke down the mech bits into pieces, and I still get that crazy looking normal map. I've tried using the cage, I've tried it using ray depth, I've tried automatic uvunwrap, to see if my uv's were bad. I've officially tried everything I know to do, and some stuff I didn't know till someone else spoke up, and I'm still getting terrible normal maps.

This thing has got me stumped. I can't think of a single reason why it won't work. I even brought it into ZB, and used GUVTiles for the uv's, and I'm still getting bad results. I'm starting to think this is a Max problem.

Does anyone know of any other decent free normal mapping software? I just don't know what else to do.

[alannoon]

If you're confortable with the idea, I'd be willing to look at the model and trouble shoot it a bit. Perhaps you could send me just one part of the model for me to look at. I'd need the hi res and low res versions of the part in max format.

My email is anoon@day1studios.com if you're interested.

[ReplicA]

Sure, I could do that. Just to make it easier, I'll send the whole thing in a rar file if it's small enough to send. Will the .max file be ok? Or would you rather have obj's?

I'm trying Nvidias Melody right now, but that thing takes forever. It's already been running for over an hour, and it's not even half done.

[alannoon]

Ok, I got your file. I just worked on the one organic arm. Here's what I did:

--Reset the cage, then pushed it out to encompass the hires mesh.

--In RTT Options, I set the Normal Map Space to Tangent. (Though I haven't worked with the Doom3 engine I'm 99.9% you want tangent space. Not local)

--In RTT I enabled "Render to Files Only" (Why 3ds max doesn't default to this, I don't know. TONS of people get caught up on that stupid OutputInto Source/Create Shell crap.)

--OK, this was the real source of your problem: You had a material applied to your hi res object that had a bump map in it. While it can be handy to generate normals with a bump map on your hi res object, (for wrinkles, warts and micro detail you'd rather paint as a bump instead of modelling in,) in your case it was detrimental because the map you had applied was bad.

So really your problem was that you generated a junk normal map by using local space, then mapped that back onto your hi res object, which in turn was used in each successive attempt to generate normal maps again. A vicious circle!

Here's what it should look like:
http://users.rcn.com/anoon/Strogg_fixed.jpg

[ReplicA]

Thanks for the help. I'll give render to files thing a shot and see what happens. I sent you another email about the problem. If you can figure out that part, it would be great. Thanks again.

[ReplicA]

YES, YES, Y.E.S! I finally got what you were saying, alannoon. I didn't have a bump map in there, but another normal map, and since max will render whatever's in the bump slot WITH the normal map, it kept rendering the bad normal map.

I tossed the bad normal map, rendered again, and it looked pretty awful, but better than before. Then it hit me that with all the contours of mech stuff, the cage is overlapping all over the place, and can't really get any good information to the normal map. I broke it apart, and rendered out just the gun, and it looks pretty spiffy. There's still some clean up to do, but that just takes time.

this also solves my problem with my other model's normal maps. :D

Thank you guys SOooo much for helping me out, especially you, alannoon. I'm now off to do this thing RIGHT! ;)

[lt_ethe]

Love the progress you're making. Good lookng stuff there. I'm treading a similar path as yourself currently. High res mechanical modeling is my current shortcoming though. I have an obsession with clean meshes, and adding tons of mechanical detail to a model is not computing with my need for clean geometry. I'd love to take a look at a wireframe of some of you high res mechanical work myself if you've got the time.

[alannoon]

Replica: No problem, dude. Glad I could be of assistance.

Over the last year I have been bringing our staff up to speed on normal mapping, so I've probably encountered just about every 3dsmax related issue associated with it and Render To Texture. The members of this board have been extremely generous with their knowledge in respect to some of the issues I've encountered with ZB, so I'm happy to share my knowledge, be it ZB, 3dsmax, or otherwise. :)

[ReplicA]

Thanks, lt_ethe, I feel the same way about mechanical modeling. I like having nice clean meshes for that stuff, but sometimes it just doesn't work out that way. It kills me when I see great mechanical models with perfectly clean meshes, like the stuff Seneca Menard (from id) does, cause I have no idea how they do it.

Here's the wire of this guys mech stuff.

strogg_MechWires.jpg

[ReplicA]

I just saw your reply there, alannoon. I'll tell ya, I'm glad you were here to save my sanity. I won't say I was about to give up, but I was completely out of ideas, and unable to move forward. Now all it's gonna take is some work, and I have no problem with that. :D

[pinkarman]

whoa!!great!!!

[ReplicA]

Thanks, pinkarman, glad you like him. :D

Hey, alannoon, I wanted to ask you another question about normal maps. Do you have any good resources on how to edit them in Photoshop? I could really use some of those. The normal maps I'm creating here have some flaws, and it would probably be easier and quicker to edit them in Photoshop than constantly re-rendering in Max.

[lt_ethe]

nice stuff man. Love the asymmetry of the design. Thanks for taking the time to put the wires up.

[ReplicA]

Not a problem, lt_ethe.

I've been working on those normal maps today, and I can say with all honesty, I wish someone else could do that job. Do modellers normally have to do their own normal map rendering in the gaming industry? If they do, I guess I better get used to it, if they don't, man will that make my life easier.

Ah well, I guess since I'm making this for my demo reel, I'd better get used to it. Back to rendering I go. I'll post some renders of the low-poly model with the normals applied when I get them looking decent.

[ReplicA]

Alrighty, how about some results? This is what I have for the normal maps so far. There's still some obvious errors, and some details just refuse to show up, but I think it's looking pretty good right now. The bicep on the mech arm refuses to show a few lines of details, and the whole bicep/tricep area is fighting me.

Anyway, this is the lowpoly version, with the normal maps on it. Hope you like it. :D

StroggLow_04.jpg

[kalbers]

Artists often do the normal maps for the game-res models at game studios, but not always. At larger studios, the odds are higher that they have seperate high-res and game-res modelers. In any case, its a great skill to have, and it gets reasonably easy after you are used to the workflow.

[pete330]

looking good and making good progress! :tu:
is the low poly you're using the 4000-ish one?

[ReplicA]

Ok, kalbers, that kinda makes sense. I'm sure I'll get used to it faster now, and I'm gonna have more experience with them since all the models in my demo reel will have corresponding low-poly model with normal maps applied.

pete330, thanks for the commest. :D He's closer to 5000-ish. If I knew how to get those mech parts to be one solid mesh, while keeping the continuity between low-poly and high-res good enough, that might help. For now, though, it'll be staying at 5000-ish. ;)

[neuroticgothguy]

came out pretty damn good, now you just need to rig it:D

[pete330]

5000-ish... whatever! still :tu: go! go! go!

[ReplicA]

came out pretty damn good, now you just need to rig it:D
UUuuggh! ;)

pete330, :D I will, I promise.

[sriram]

:tu: The Normal Mapped lowpoly is very good ! I'd love to see it rigged and posed too;)

[ReplicA]

Alrighty, I think the normal mapping is finally done. I'm pretty happy with it.

Next comes a rigging test, and some textures. Thanks a lot for the help everyone.

StroggLow_05.jpg

[pete330]

congrats and great work!

[-WOODY-]

That really looks good for a normal map. I would have thought that only a dissplacement map would have that much of an effect on your mesh.

-WOODY- gives 2 thumbs up:tu::tu:

[ReplicA]

Hey thanks guys. Of course, now I notice that he doesn't have the cables in his stomach... I'll fix that though ;)

Oh, and I had the next parts backwards. I'm going to texture THEN rig him. And the rigging will just be for fun/testing, I won't be doing anything signifcant with it.

[neuroticgothguy]

sounds like a plan, from here it looks to me like its gonna be quite a bitch to rig, because you have non-deformables connecting to deformables which is gonna be just a headache to get rid of.

[sriram]

Fantastic Job :tu:

The normal map is good[though a tiny weeny bit off in some areas:p ]...could you post a render of the model with and without the normal map so that we can see how good the normal map is ?:D

[ReplicA]

Well, I'm not sure about rigging him anymore, as I'm not very good at it to begin with, and it will be a pain. I'm gonna try of course, you never know till you do, but I'm not expecting any miracles.

I've been working on his texture though, and it's coming pretty nicely so far. I'm not a very good texture artist, but I can do decent work. So far, I'm pretty happy with the way the textures look.

Lemme know what ya think, ;)

StroggLow_06.jpg

[ZedHead]

Texture AND model look top notch!! looks like something that belongs in Doom3 or similar type of game.

Liking a lot :tu:

_____________________


Tolu Abisola

Baby Dragon & Metahuman WIP


http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=25203

Cardassian Woman


http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthrea...ardassian+woman



Harpie



http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=28783

[ReplicA]

Hey, thanks, Zedhead, that's exactly what I was going for. ;)

I di some more on the arm textures, and started in on the legs, and they should be done soon. After that, I'm gonna try to rig him, and maybe pose him. Since I've worked on this guy for so long, it'll be nice to finally get him done. :D I have another character I wanna create for my demo reel, and this time, he'll be human! It's been a while since I modeled a regular old human, so I thought I'd give it a shot.

[pinkarman]

hey!looks good!!! :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:

[Drummer]

great!!

you are the king of video games!
I love it, how much time do you spend on video games? up until some time ago, I played everyay, 5 or 6 hours :D !! really funny days !!

keep it up, friend

[ReplicA]

Wow, thanks guys! :D The legs should be done soon if I don't have too many complications, or things coming up I need to take care of. After that the rigging starts.

Drummer, I'm glad you like him, I've seen a lot of your work, and it's nice to hear you like my work. :D I spend a good amount of time on video games, especially lately. After watching QuakeConTV on radioITG, I've been playing quite a bit of Quake 3. I know it's an older game, but it's sooo much fun. I also re-installed the original Unreal Tournament, and have been playing that. I really don't know how much time I spend on video games, I just know it's more than some, less than others. ;)

Anyway, I'll post another update soon.

[ReplicA]

Alright here's the texture update. I think he's pretty near done, except for some normalmap editing in Photoshop to clean up some spots.

After that, I'll start the rigging. :D

StroggLow_07.jpg

[odhinn]

Looking good bro:tu:

[DAVESTEEL]

Very nice model, like always, im see that now you also make textures, thanks for post here, and thaks for your help ,:( im still wait for a step to step of your process. :tu:

[Ron Harris]

looking great:tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:

not much more to add....just wanted to thank you for all the updates..
Ron

[pete330]

hey you kept going! it's looking great! send it on to id!

i hate to crit at all cause it turned out so good but maybe some more texture work on the face and his left arm? maybe just the horns darker would do it?

really turning out great though. nice job! and :tu:

[ReplicA]

Wow again! Thanks everyone!

odhinn, glad you like it. :D Coming from you, that's a HUGE compliment.

DAVESTEEL, Thanks for the comments. I might try another step by step tutorial again sometime, but right now, I'm really busy.

Ron Harris, thanks! ;)

pete330, thanks, and yeah, I kept going. I would send it to id, but I already applied there, and they said I don't have the experience they're looking for. Yet. ;)

More texture work on the head and arm, huh? Any suggestions?

Again, thanks everyone, I'm really glad you like him. The rigging will start very soon, and right now, the only part of that I'm really worried about is the piston that goes from the shoulder into his neck. I have no idea how I'm gonna rig that to allow for maximum shoulder movement...

[pete330]

yeah i imagine it'd take a pretty hardcore portfolio to get into id! keep going!

the mech parts and lower torso have a lot of very nice texture detail but when you get to the left pectoral, left arm and head it seems to go kind of monochromatic. maybe it's just the render angle/size/lighting. like is said maybe give the horns more contrast from the color of the head or maybe some tonal variations in the skin. that kind of stuff is all i meant. maybe i'm not seeing the detail on those parts because the angle of the render. either way don't take offense! i didn't mean to slight the effort you put in and it turned out great as is! :tu:

[ReplicA]

Yeah, Kenneth Scott himself said I was good, and that he really liked my E3 Boss model, but I need more pro experience to work there. Which I can totally understand, cause the artists there are some of the best around. I'd be intimidated everyday. :D

I didn't take any offense, I honestly wanted to know. I've never been much of a texture artist, and I really wanted some suggestions on how to improve it. I'm just not sure what to do, especially with low poly textures.

I'll go ahead and try to get some more detail, and tone in there today then. Come to think of it, I never even colored his lips. :D It seemed somehow weird to put freckles, and pock marks, and moles, on his face, since it's pretty skull-like. I'll try some other stuff, though. Thanks for the tips.

[pete330]

>>Kenneth Scott himself said I was good
well you are but that's a great compliment! sure would be fun to learn from those guys everyday!

yeah stuff like the lips is exactly what i mean. freckles? well maybe not ;)

[ReplicA]

It was a great feeling to know that Kenneth Scott liked my work. I couldn't stop smiling the entire day. :D And, yeah, I'd LOVE to learn from those guys.

Ok, I gotcha. No freckles, though, I promise. I re-rendered the left arms normal map, cause the other one was rendered using a version that had about half the polygonal detail as the newer one. It looks much better now. I'll get on those flesh textures right now. ;)

[ReplicA]

I knew things were going to easy to be true... I rendered out that new arm normal map, and placed it on the full body map. Well, right after I did that, Photoshop wouldn't recognize my mouse, or tablet clicks, so I closed it out. I hit save when it asked if I wanted to save changes. It saved a big streaky mess right across the mech parts on his right ribs, and it's a flattened image so I couldn't go back and erase it to clean it up.

Now, Max refuses to render the normal map for those mech parts. It's all flat everytime. I made sure there was no maps or materials in any slot that would mess with the rendering. In fact there's no maps or materials in ANY slot. It still happens. I made sure the low-poly and high-res bits are using map channel 1, still happens. I've checked my RTT settings over and over again, and it still happens... I really wanted to get to those textures today, but it seems like I'm gonna be fighting with Max all day (again).

[pete330]

bummer! oh the joys of cg eh? wish i could help but i don't know max at all...

[ReplicA]

You're not kiddin about the joys of cg... But there is some good news (no I didn't switch to Geico), I got the normal map to work! I exported the pieces I needed as obj's, the re-imported them, and for whatever reason, it worked like a charm! First render out they came out fine, weird.


Well, now I can get back to doing some textures. :D

[ReplicA]

Alright, how about an update?!

I think the arm looks much better with the new normal map, and I went ahead and added some more skin tone, and smaller details to his fleshy bits. Hope you like it. ;)


StroggLow_08.jpg

[pete330]

>> (no I didn't switch to Geico)
LOL!

and phew on the normal map stuff! looking good :tu:

[neuroticgothguy]

very nice job, though the head could use some more work, just cause the flesh tone to gray is...i dunno, doesnt look right...

[pete330]

i'm sure figuring out the normal map stuff took some time today. and yeah i feel like i'm badgering you on it. so i didn't say it before but i agree, i'd love to see you push the texture even further. it's your project though! ;)

[ReplicA]

Ok, I can do that.

neuroticgothguy, do you mean the head needs more color to it? Is it too grey? I know this may sound like a stupid question, but like I said, I'm not much of a texture artist, and the subtleties of doing flesh textures are kinda tough for me to grasp.

[ReplicA]

Here's an update of the skin texture. I made some more tonal changes to his head, and added some more smaller skin detail to all the fleshy parts. I also gave him the strogg tattoo. ;)

[EDIT] I forgot to mention, yes I do see that giant seem running along his shoulder. I plan on fixing the in ZB, since ZB is awesome at removing that kinda thing. :D


StroggLow_09.jpg

[pete330]

now you're cookin with gas! :tu:

[pinkarman]

whoa!!!

[ReplicA]

Thanks, guys. :D

I'm doing another little experiment. I'm using ZB to try and clean up some of the normalmaps seams, as well as the texture seems. The textures seems were very easy, ZB rules over those! But with normal maps, it's a different story, cause you HAVE TO get those colors right, or it changed that part of the model entirely. It's pretty touchy work, but so far it's working great. I was able to get rid of those dark spots across the shoulder area, and smooth out the transition from shoulder to pec, and it's working quite nicely.

Hopefully, I'll have an update soon that will show what I'm talking about. Till then, back to work :D

[ReplicA]

Alrighty, my little experiment works!! YAY. I was able to clean up the shoulder seems, and some other areas that weren't readily visible in his static pose, but would have been painfully obvious when he moved.

Anyway, here's that update. I think I might fianlly be ready to start rigging. :D

StroggLow_10.jpg

[pete330]

dude! that rocks! :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:

hey weather that tatoo in a little. looks pasted on. sorry! i'll quit nit picking so you can finally rig him - promise! if i could do half as good a job, i'd be a happy guy! :D

you gotta put him in a mod... ;)

[abxy]

Hey rep,

It's looking good mate. I didn't say anything earlier because I thought you already had it in mind to do, but before you move on to rigging, I really think it would be nice if you put some stress texturing on the mechnical parts of the model. Right now it just looks too clean and unused. A little stress texturing on all of the parts or the model would be nice, but especially adding it to the mechnical parts would really help invoke the strogg's twisted guts fused with machinary feeling.

All in all, It's looking great though mate. Can't wait to see this one in-game.

by the way, i'm in the process of making a mod for Quake4/Doom3 myself, so don't get mad if I ask you for a few pointers concerning he modelling/texturing here and there. ;)

[ReplicA]

Thanks! I'm glad to be taking it this far. Honestly, I don't mind if you "nit-pick", I'm still learning most of this stuff, well, specifically textures, and I'd love to get honest crits on my work so I can grow as a texture artist (and grow as an artist in all areas). But, real crits are not "that sucks" or, "I don't like it". I can understand the occasional, "there's something wrong with it, but I don't know what it is" crit, though. :D

pete330, when I figure out how to get models into Doom3, he's going in. I'll post a screenshot when it happens. :D As for the rest of your comments, see above. ;) I really don't mind it when people gimme crits, and I never take offense to them... anymore :p

abxy, more stress on the metal, you're absolutely right. Honestly, I didn't notice that there's a lot of areas on the metal that don't have stress, or scratches or anything till you said it. I'll get to work on those parts, and try to stress 'em out nice. ;)

[EDIT] abxy, I promise not to get to mad if you ask for pointers. I've been asked via email about things many times, and even though it can take a while for me to respond, I always give help as best I can. So, ask away anytime you need a hand.

[ReplicA]

Ok, I've dinged up the metal a bit. I actually dinged it up a lot, but for some reason it doesn't seem to be showing up as much as I'd like it to.

Anyway, here's the update. Enjoy. ;)

StroggLow_11.jpg

[ReplicA]

Rigging's almost done, there's just a few key places that need some tweaking (mainly around the neck area). Other than that, it's been a LOT easier than I thought it would be.

Here's a temp pose for an example of the rigging so far.

[EDIT] Yes, I know the pose is pretty goofy, I just wanted to post him in some sort of pose for all to see. :D

StroggLow_12.jpg

[Drummer]

congrats friend !!

thi is really cool and well done! I wish you good luck with your work !
keep it up :) :tu:

[neuroticgothguy]

outstanding work, very nicely done.

[ReplicA]

Thanks guys! :D

Drummer, thanks a lot for the comments, I always feel just that much better when you nice things about my work. :D

Neurotic, thanks a lot for that. I wasn't sure how I'd do it, but the rigging was the easiest rigging job I've ever done. The joints in the right place helped, and having all those mech bits helped as well since they got full influence from the corresponding bone, which meant not much tweaking necessary.

I've been having technical problems with my computer, so I haven't had a chance to go in and edit the skin modifier that much yet. With the rigging going as fast as it did, I'm thinking about maybe doing a short little animation with him. Not sure though, so don't be mad at me if it never happens (I'm still not much of an animator).

[ReplicA]

Ok, I think this pose looks significantly better. He's kinda got that comic book hero swagger to his stance.

Anyway, I'm gonna go find out how to get models into D3, and get a screencap. Till then, enjoy this one. ;)

StroggLow_13.jpg

[ReplicA]

Well, I found out how hard it can be to get models into D3 when you don't follow decent naming conventions with your textures. I'll get it though, and post the results. Thanks everyone for your help, comments, and suggestions. This one was a bit of a challenge, but with your guys help, it made it much easier.

Till next time... ;)

[pete330]

way to go! been out of town for the weekend. happy to come back and see he's rigged! nice job my friend!