ZBrush beta testing

[skycastle]

Just wanted to post more images
as Im getting more comfortable with
the new Zbrush modeling tools. I feel lucky to have access to the Beta(Very cool stuff !)

You will want to use Zbrush for your Humanoids, Creatures and terrain modeling fun.

The new features in the software give
the artist more control using more polys than any other software out there! ( Im sculpting 1million poly meshes like sculpy )

If you dont have a scanner or 2weeks to rebuild a scaned mesh for use.... Zbrush!

Dave Cardwell http://cube.phlatt.net/forums/spiraloid/viewtopic.php?TopicID=9 (http://cube.phlatt.net/forums/spiraloid/viewtopic.php?TopicID=9 http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200306/user_image-1054558653xac.jpg )

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200306/user_image-1054558653xac.jpg </A>

[skycastle]

Just wanted to post more images
as Im getting more comfortable with
the new Zbrush modeling tools. I feel lucky to have access to the Beta(Very cool stuff !)

You will want to use Zbrush for your Humanoids, Creatures and terrain modeling fun.

The new features in the software give
the artist more control using more polys than any other software out there! ( Im sculpting 1million poly meshes like sculpy )

If you dont have a scanner or 2weeks to rebuild a scaned mesh for use.... Zbrush!

Dave Cardwell http://cube.phlatt.net/forums/spiraloid/viewtopic.php?TopicID=9 (http://cube.phlatt.net/forums/spiraloid/viewtopic.php?TopicID=9 http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200306/user_image-1054558653xac.jpg )

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200306/user_image-1054558653xac.jpg </A>

[azerty]

What the........what a chance you have!It's a great new feature and a very great leg too!But i would like to know more of the technique if you tell me more of course.Does you paint a map and apply on the model,or you export the model to make UV mapping and paint it in photoshop for aplly in zbrush?And a strange thing your LowFreq base mesh has a good details in the toes different as the base.Do you make the model in wings 3d and import in zbrush?Also there is a great leg model and a great performance by pixolator!thx to answer me and have a good day with this beta!bye
(:])
(if it's not a fake!)
lolllll.

[azerty]

What the........what a chance you have!It's a great new feature and a very great leg too!But i would like to know more of the technique if you tell me more of course.Does you paint a map and apply on the model,or you export the model to make UV mapping and paint it in photoshop for aplly in zbrush?And a strange thing your LowFreq base mesh has a good details in the toes different as the base.Do you make the model in wings 3d and import in zbrush?Also there is a great leg model and a great performance by pixolator!thx to answer me and have a good day with this beta!bye
(:])
(if it's not a fake!)
lolllll.

[Mentat7]

Very cool test! and you are very lucky indeed to have the beta.


By the way. Are those toenails multimarked polymeshed objects or are they just placed on seperately????? They do not have the same type of mesh geometry that the low-poly leg posesses.

[Mentat7]

Very cool test! and you are very lucky indeed to have the beta.


By the way. Are those toenails multimarked polymeshed objects or are they just placed on seperately????? They do not have the same type of mesh geometry that the low-poly leg posesses.

[aurick]

For those who don't know, skycastle (Dave Cardwell) is from Weta Digital, the visual effects crew of the 'Lord Of The Rings' movies. :)

[aurick]

For those who don't know, skycastle (Dave Cardwell) is from Weta Digital, the visual effects crew of the 'Lord Of The Rings' movies. :)

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hi Dave
What a chubby leg :D
Pilou

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hi Dave
What a chubby leg :D
Pilou

[azerty]

Hum hum and me just a zbrush user!lol,so what does he thinks for my 2 lord of the rings pictures (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=009466&p=7)
thx i'm glad to see him in the forum!
bye!
(:])
(bottom of the page)

[azerty]

Hum hum and me just a zbrush user!lol,so what does he thinks for my 2 lord of the rings pictures (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=009466&p=7)
thx i'm glad to see him in the forum!
bye!
(:])
(bottom of the page)

[Reactor]

Huh... what an awesome privilege :) I keep watching the work the weta guys did on my Lord of the Rings DVD, completely stunned. Oh and, Zbrush looks great too :D

[Reactor]

Huh... what an awesome privilege :) I keep watching the work the weta guys did on my Lord of the Rings DVD, completely stunned. Oh and, Zbrush looks great too :D

[Mahlikus The Black]

WETA! BEAUTIFUL!

[Mahlikus The Black]

WETA! BEAUTIFUL!

[The Namek]

looking great. Same question as mentat7 though , ...

-Quote- (Mentat7)
By the way. Are those toenails multimarked polymeshed objects or are they just placed on seperately????? They do not have the same type of mesh geometry that the low-poly leg posesses.
-Quote-

[The Namek]

looking great. Same question as mentat7 though , ...

-Quote- (Mentat7)
By the way. Are those toenails multimarked polymeshed objects or are they just placed on seperately????? They do not have the same type of mesh geometry that the low-poly leg posesses.
-Quote-

[juandel]

polymesh terrains with millions of polygons - my weak cpus nightmares, my own dreams :D - thanks a lot for this wonderful teaser, Dave!

- juandel

[juandel]

polymesh terrains with millions of polygons - my weak cpus nightmares, my own dreams :D - thanks a lot for this wonderful teaser, Dave!

- juandel

[TVeyes]

Looks sweet. Are the base and the MedFreq meshes deliberately kept within the about same volume?

I don't know if you are allowed to answer or if the feature is even available with high poly objects, but is it possible to paint colors on the high poly object (polygonal texturing)? And if so would it translate back to the base mesh? In 1.55b it is done by activating Tool ::Modifiers ::Texture:Colorize and using the Simple Brush with only RGB active in the Draw panel. Then just paint on the object with the color of your choice. To convert the Poly colors into a bitmap click Tool ::Modifiers ::Texture:Col>Txr.

You probably knew the above but I wrote it just in case(I feel so ... awkward, lecturing a WETA guy :)) Hope you have the time, and are permitted, to answer this. Ever since hearing about the high poly object I've been dying to find out if projection mapping is dead :)

Keep up the "other" good work ;). Hope you post more stuff here.

[TVeyes]

Looks sweet. Are the base and the MedFreq meshes deliberately kept within the about same volume?

I don't know if you are allowed to answer or if the feature is even available with high poly objects, but is it possible to paint colors on the high poly object (polygonal texturing)? And if so would it translate back to the base mesh? In 1.55b it is done by activating Tool ::Modifiers ::Texture:Colorize and using the Simple Brush with only RGB active in the Draw panel. Then just paint on the object with the color of your choice. To convert the Poly colors into a bitmap click Tool ::Modifiers ::Texture:Col>Txr.

You probably knew the above but I wrote it just in case(I feel so ... awkward, lecturing a WETA guy :)) Hope you have the time, and are permitted, to answer this. Ever since hearing about the high poly object I've been dying to find out if projection mapping is dead :)

Keep up the "other" good work ;). Hope you post more stuff here.

[Bonecradle]

I read the Spiraloid thread a little while ago and given the developments being shown here it seems Pixolator is cleverly positioning ZBrush as a must-have manipulator of large numbers of polygons.

One thing I'm keen to know though is whether ZBrush will enable the generation of displacement/normal maps that can then be exported for use (applying to low-res cages) in other apps - at the push of a (or several buttons) if you will?

Or will these maps be useful only within ZBrush such that maps for use outside ZBrush will need to be generated using 3rd party software from models exported from ZBrush.

Either way, it won't limit ZBrush's usefulness as a modeler for generating the medium frequency detail (I like your analogy to Sculpey), but the former would be REALLY nice :)

Speaking of Sculpey, do you know of any mail order shops in NZ where I can get it? Though I guess Weta probably gets it by the bucket load.

[Bonecradle]

I read the Spiraloid thread a little while ago and given the developments being shown here it seems Pixolator is cleverly positioning ZBrush as a must-have manipulator of large numbers of polygons.

One thing I'm keen to know though is whether ZBrush will enable the generation of displacement/normal maps that can then be exported for use (applying to low-res cages) in other apps - at the push of a (or several buttons) if you will?

Or will these maps be useful only within ZBrush such that maps for use outside ZBrush will need to be generated using 3rd party software from models exported from ZBrush.

Either way, it won't limit ZBrush's usefulness as a modeler for generating the medium frequency detail (I like your analogy to Sculpey), but the former would be REALLY nice :)

Speaking of Sculpey, do you know of any mail order shops in NZ where I can get it? Though I guess Weta probably gets it by the bucket load.

[Mahlikus The Black]

If I am not mistaken I remember Pix saying something about them being able to export. Even so, I would think it a downside if he didnt make it so. On the logical side, we all know Weta isn't using ZB exclusively. So for them to be able to utilize what it can do, it must be exportable to other apps. ;)

[Mahlikus The Black]

If I am not mistaken I remember Pix saying something about them being able to export. Even so, I would think it a downside if he didnt make it so. On the logical side, we all know Weta isn't using ZB exclusively. So for them to be able to utilize what it can do, it must be exportable to other apps. ;)

[Kircho]

Well I've come back numerous time to this post, simply to dwell on your masterfull work...so I though I must reply :)..

Skycastle may I ask How many years of experience you have producing models..2d/3d.
I don't believe that even using the new Zbrush we are going to be able to reach such controled complexity!.--(Minus a few ofcourse )

thankyou for taking the time to show your work.

Kircho

[Kircho]

Well I've come back numerous time to this post, simply to dwell on your masterfull work...so I though I must reply :)..

Skycastle may I ask How many years of experience you have producing models..2d/3d.
I don't believe that even using the new Zbrush we are going to be able to reach such controled complexity!.--(Minus a few ofcourse )

thankyou for taking the time to show your work.

Kircho

[Bonecradle]

Back with another question :)

Looking at the rear view of your leg, you have modeled skin folds behind the knee. Perhaps you haven't built this mesh with the intention of animating it, but I am wondering what you think is the best route to take when detailing models to be used for generating displacement maps for use in animation.

For example, generally, would it be better to model the flexed pose (which probably has 'more' detail in the form of creases etc.), or the unflexed, stretched pose? Or maybe the procedure is quite different, perhaps requiring the medium frequency details to be modelled into both (and even more) poses?

In Pix's dino animation thread he mentioned tweaking the map between morphs, so I am curious as to how that tweaking is done. Is the base mesh changed and a new map generated, or is the map itself worked on?

Perhaps I should ask Pix himself :), though I would be very interested in your professional opinion how you might go about this.

It would be something to keep in mind while I am making models in ZBrush 1.55, especially if I want to apply the new features to them later on.

Many thanks :)

[Bonecradle]

Back with another question :)

Looking at the rear view of your leg, you have modeled skin folds behind the knee. Perhaps you haven't built this mesh with the intention of animating it, but I am wondering what you think is the best route to take when detailing models to be used for generating displacement maps for use in animation.

For example, generally, would it be better to model the flexed pose (which probably has 'more' detail in the form of creases etc.), or the unflexed, stretched pose? Or maybe the procedure is quite different, perhaps requiring the medium frequency details to be modelled into both (and even more) poses?

In Pix's dino animation thread he mentioned tweaking the map between morphs, so I am curious as to how that tweaking is done. Is the base mesh changed and a new map generated, or is the map itself worked on?

Perhaps I should ask Pix himself :), though I would be very interested in your professional opinion how you might go about this.

It would be something to keep in mind while I am making models in ZBrush 1.55, especially if I want to apply the new features to them later on.

Many thanks :)

[Jaycephus]

Good question, Bonecradle...

[Jaycephus]

Good question, Bonecradle...

[skycastle]

Yes good question,

First in response to Kircho I have been modeling for about 7 years professionally. Ive seen quite a few tricks for producing the highest quality models for both automotive and entertainment purposes ( but I don't know everything by far ).

But what I have been able to produce with Zbrush digitally, is something that could not be done before without the use of a high quality scanner or clay+lots of time. In fact it is the first time that I have been able to fully reproduce creatures/characters,
digitally that I could conceptualize on paper.

Currently the workflow for this kind of tool is as follows.

1. Develop a good design.

2. Build a high quality Base Mesh of your creature, character, weapon, armor... etc.

3. Continue with Zbrush to add MedRez surface detail. Things like bone through skin, muscle variation, fatty tissue, tears in armor,
you know all that cool kind of stuff. This detail will give your models a photo realistic look to them ( not limited to photo realism ).
If you want your models to look wicked then DO THIS!

4. Create a 2d (normal/displacement) map that represents the offset between your LowFeq and MedFreq
( there are plugins that do this on the NET ).

5. Paint a map for high frequency detail like skin pores, scratches, small veins, small wrinkles....etc.

6. Render the original Base Mesh with the 2d map as a displacement or a normal map for games.

For an example of a similar workflow go see the Rings movies. Look at the Mountain Troll and Gollum.
The idea behind this is not new ( not mine ). Zbrush just allows you to do it in record time!


I will have more detailed tutorials for this available once the new software comes out.
Cheers!

Dave Cardwell
http://cube.phlatt.net/forums/spiraloid/viewtopic.php?TopicID=581
http://www.drone.org/

[skycastle]

Yes good question,

First in response to Kircho I have been modeling for about 7 years professionally. Ive seen quite a few tricks for producing the highest quality models for both automotive and entertainment purposes ( but I don't know everything by far ).

But what I have been able to produce with Zbrush digitally, is something that could not be done before without the use of a high quality scanner or clay+lots of time. In fact it is the first time that I have been able to fully reproduce creatures/characters,
digitally that I could conceptualize on paper.

Currently the workflow for this kind of tool is as follows.

1. Develop a good design.

2. Build a high quality Base Mesh of your creature, character, weapon, armor... etc.

3. Continue with Zbrush to add MedRez surface detail. Things like bone through skin, muscle variation, fatty tissue, tears in armor,
you know all that cool kind of stuff. This detail will give your models a photo realistic look to them ( not limited to photo realism ).
If you want your models to look wicked then DO THIS!

4. Create a 2d (normal/displacement) map that represents the offset between your LowFeq and MedFreq
( there are plugins that do this on the NET ).

5. Paint a map for high frequency detail like skin pores, scratches, small veins, small wrinkles....etc.

6. Render the original Base Mesh with the 2d map as a displacement or a normal map for games.

For an example of a similar workflow go see the Rings movies. Look at the Mountain Troll and Gollum.
The idea behind this is not new ( not mine ). Zbrush just allows you to do it in record time!


I will have more detailed tutorials for this available once the new software comes out.
Cheers!

Dave Cardwell
http://cube.phlatt.net/forums/spiraloid/viewtopic.php?TopicID=581
http://www.drone.org/

[Frenchy Pilou]

If you want all know about displacement map and other similar things
go to Olivier Renouard link (http://www.drone.org/) given by the Skycastle's Signature :cool:
Pilou

[Frenchy Pilou]

If you want all know about displacement map and other similar things
go to Olivier Renouard link (http://www.drone.org/) given by the Skycastle's Signature :cool:
Pilou

[Mentat7]

Very cool Dave! Very cool!!

[Mentat7]

Very cool Dave! Very cool!!

[MrBraun]

I am happy to meet you skycastle !!
Tnx for sharing this news over zBrush!!!
:D :tu: :tu:

[MrBraun]

I am happy to meet you skycastle !!
Tnx for sharing this news over zBrush!!!
:D :tu: :tu:

[Skaven252]

Thanks a lot! Now I'll have to calm myself down by chewing on a rag until the upgrade comes out. Can't... calm... down... gnngnn...
http://www.modplug.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/offwall.gif
Nice meeting you, Skycastle. http://www.modplug.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wavey.gif

[Skaven252]

Thanks a lot! Now I'll have to calm myself down by chewing on a rag until the upgrade comes out. Can't... calm... down... gnngnn...
http://www.modplug.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/offwall.gif
Nice meeting you, Skycastle. http://www.modplug.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wavey.gif

[KenH]

Hey Skycastle! :)
Did you work on Gollum or the Troll?! :)

Also, I've never heard these terms before. Can you (or anyone) confirm if I'm right? :

Low frequency = the mesh
Medium Frequency = Muscles and anomolies at that level
High Frequency = the main texture

[KenH]

Hey Skycastle! :)
Did you work on Gollum or the Troll?! :)

Also, I've never heard these terms before. Can you (or anyone) confirm if I'm right? :

Low frequency = the mesh
Medium Frequency = Muscles and anomolies at that level
High Frequency = the main texture

[Jaycephus]

Think of the frequencies in terms of real wavelengths. Low frequency waves can be a meter or more in their period. High frequency waves are very short in length, very small.

So skin pores and the fine wrinkles in the skin are 'high frequency' because they are small, and there is very little space between each pore or wrinkle. Then there are the 'medium frequency' details. Look at the palm of your hand. Up close, the fine wrinkles and palm-print ridges are high frequency, but the larger, deeper wrinkles cut across the entire palm or the insides of the fingers, and are generally ten-times (or more) deeper and longer. Now hold your palm farther away and look at it through slitted eyes. You should just be able to make out zones of light and shade that suggest that the palm is slightly concave, the fingers are plain cylinders, and the heel of the palm is rounded, merging with the cylindrical wrist. These very basic shapes are the low-frequency detail of the hand.

The finger-print ridges and skin pores are just too fine (high frequency) to model (yet). Even if we had the computing power, I don't know if it would make sense to model this level of detail anyway.

The medium-frequency wrinkles, bone protrusions, tendons, etc. can be modeled, but that level of modeling is out of the reach of real-time rendering for games, and even in movie production, attempting to animate highly detailed models may not be feasible (current processing power and tight deadlines). But if a highly detailed model can be rendered from a low-poly (low-frequency) model combined with a normal map derived from a medium frequency model, then both real-time game engines and movie animators can benefit.

[Jaycephus]

Think of the frequencies in terms of real wavelengths. Low frequency waves can be a meter or more in their period. High frequency waves are very short in length, very small.

So skin pores and the fine wrinkles in the skin are 'high frequency' because they are small, and there is very little space between each pore or wrinkle. Then there are the 'medium frequency' details. Look at the palm of your hand. Up close, the fine wrinkles and palm-print ridges are high frequency, but the larger, deeper wrinkles cut across the entire palm or the insides of the fingers, and are generally ten-times (or more) deeper and longer. Now hold your palm farther away and look at it through slitted eyes. You should just be able to make out zones of light and shade that suggest that the palm is slightly concave, the fingers are plain cylinders, and the heel of the palm is rounded, merging with the cylindrical wrist. These very basic shapes are the low-frequency detail of the hand.

The finger-print ridges and skin pores are just too fine (high frequency) to model (yet). Even if we had the computing power, I don't know if it would make sense to model this level of detail anyway.

The medium-frequency wrinkles, bone protrusions, tendons, etc. can be modeled, but that level of modeling is out of the reach of real-time rendering for games, and even in movie production, attempting to animate highly detailed models may not be feasible (current processing power and tight deadlines). But if a highly detailed model can be rendered from a low-poly (low-frequency) model combined with a normal map derived from a medium frequency model, then both real-time game engines and movie animators can benefit.

[Grub]

Great stuff Dave! Keep on pushing the package, looks like your having a lot of fun :tu: :cool:

[Grub]

Great stuff Dave! Keep on pushing the package, looks like your having a lot of fun :tu: :cool:

[KenH]

Thanks Jaycephus! That was very helpful! :tu: :)

[KenH]

Thanks Jaycephus! That was very helpful! :tu: :)

[Zendoftheworld]

Hi all,

For those that are interested, I've written an a review article on this very topic that will be published in the next issue of Highend Magazine (www.highendmag.com)

It covers the current technology and techniques that film and games studio's use to manage their high resolution characters designs.


Best regards,

Zendotheworld...

[Zendoftheworld]

Hi all,

For those that are interested, I've written an a review article on this very topic that will be published in the next issue of Highend Magazine (www.highendmag.com)

It covers the current technology and techniques that film and games studio's use to manage their high resolution characters designs.


Best regards,

Zendotheworld...

[iatriki]

oh,the old times :)