Z-Heaven... (Final 7-25-02)

[Vikki]

And it's not what you think, LOL! I was working first on using all my textures that Woohooo! do work on 3D models. Second on setting different lighting on different layers. I was doing the 99% bake and light etc. But Z kept dying on me and then wouldn't let me open my document again.

So, I finally got smart and started exporting so I could have *something* to show for a whole evenings play. :D At any rate, here's what I ended up with and it's going to be Z-GateKeeper of Z-Heaven, where all Z documents go when you can't open them again and Z crashes. :D I say going to be because it's definitely not done and now I'm going to try Kathy's method to see if maybe that will stop this from happening or slow it down some.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1027578147poa.jpg

Well, I've finally figured out why Z closes. It has to leave and take your hard work to Z-Heaven! of course.

So now you all know what happens to those documents. :D

I don't understand it because I have 512mb of ram. *shaking head* Guess I'll up the memory allocation again and shut down the rest of my programs to see if that helps. Very frustrating.

[DM]

Very nice image. :tu: :tu: :tu:
Dave

[Mentat7]

Vikki what amount of memory do you have allocated? I have 512Mb and have 384 Meg allocated. I haven't experienced the crashes like you have. Also how much hard drive space do you have left?

[robotalk]

Another true winner--all your work Moves up a notch with each picture --wonderful progress ! :tu: :tu: :tu:

[DeeVee]

I like ! I like a lot. You are on a roll

BTW I posted a script for you on the other thread. :tu: :tu: :D :tu: :tu:

[Vikki]

Thanks for the comments. :D

Mentat,

I have currently 156 allocated in Compact Memory and I have 31.5 gig available space on my hard drive.

My problem on memory is that I have to run MS Office. With Outlook open, internet connection and two instances of IE open, I'm running normally at about 370 mb available. When I open Z on top of that it puts me to about 310 mb available.

I did read where it said to set it to something like 75% of what you have i.e., if you have 512, it would be 384 but I don't have 384 with everything I need to run. Or at least that is what Task Manager tells me. I haven't tried going that high yet because I'm not sure what happens when you run out of memory? if I set too high an allocation in Z. I'm not very memory saavy so maybe my thinking is all backwards on this. :D

I just got this new computer and huge amount of ram and am loving being able to work in Z, have open what I need open and be able to have Quicklinks open while I work. Maybe I'll have to change my habits?

This only happens when working on large files (large for me) 1200X960 and above where I have more than a couple markers and more than one layer, or one large canvas, one layer and a complex model and a couple of markers. If I'm just painting and using one layer things seem to work fine even on large canvases, at least up to 1500x1500.

Any information you or anyone else can give me on this would be extremely helpful. I want to try and learn more complex compositions in Z but this crash thing is killing me. One of the reasons when I work I have to save many different files i.e., this particular image was called alter.zbr and was saved as alter1, alter2, alter3 and alter 4 during each addition of objects and markers. When I got to alter4 I was able to save it, but when Z crashed it will not open anymore. So thankfully, I have alter1-3 to go back to.

Specs of this document:

Document size 1280x960

All the models are low poly so I don't think that should have caused a problem and there are only 7 objects and 7 markers in the whole scene. There are only 2 layers. I had flatten layers off (thank you Zoid) and no fog, I had 3D shading intensity set very low on the first layer and normal on the second. I had 3 lights with textures/alphas in the gdi and gsi settings. I had also manipulated some of the materials in material modifiers. I also changed lots of other settings like draw depth, hook brush resolution, etc.

Now I wish I wouldn't have deleted alter4.zbr so I could see if it will open with more memory allocated. :(

Anyway, any insights into this would be appreciated. Looked in the Quicklinks and FAQ's for info but didn't come across anything besides what was mentioned above. Doesn't mean it's not there, I just didn't find it. :rolleyes:

[Vikki]

DeeVee! While I was writing the above book I missed your post. On my way to grab the new script! Thank you!!!

[juandel]

a great idea to depict z-limbo, Vikki! and the sky/heavon (in german theres one expression for both: himmel) is :tu: :tu: :tu: himmlisch :D as for the crashes/memory: sorry to be not able to help as i am on a mac and have had approximately 5 crashes only in 2 yrs. z-experience :D

- juandel

[Vikki]

Ok! *rubbing hands together* Now we're gettin somewhere. This is still a WIP and has lots of work to be done on more lighting, painting an such but, with the help of one of our very smart Z-Experts...I can work without crashing and extra little tips were thrown in that I could use for my love of the fibre brush! Thanks Kathy!!!

You'll notice the candles and their holders are much, much, nicer now as well as my textured cliff thanks to fog and lights. The much softer and more visible appearance is thanks to Kathy's technique. :D And because of it I was able to add the beginnings of the flames the way I want them and all without crashing! I'm sooo excited! :D

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1027634448ldm.jpg

This technique opens many, many doors that I could not unlock because of the crash problems! Woohoo!

[Kathy]

YA!!! YEAH!!!!!

No More Baking DANCE!!!!

Whoo hoo!!

Wow. You are a FAST learner!!! What GREAT strides. Looks AWESOME!! GREAT work Vikki!

I can FEEL the fun and excitement screaming out of this one!!

I'm celebrating with you!!!!!!!!!

:tu: :tu: :tu: :D :tu: :tu: :tu:

[Vikki]

And as promised to go with that No Bakin Dance....here are the lyrics to the song!

The was an old woman in the moutains.
Who lived mighty close to Z-Heaven.
She hated to bake,
'Cause such measures would make,
All the layers looked burnt by Z-Heathens.

Along came a gal named Kathy,
Who's hatred of bakin was mighty!
She taught the old woman,
that cookin was frightnin,
and take-in was better than fryin!

The old woman had terrible memory,
It would cause her to crash all the time,
But without all the bakin,
One layer, all take-in,
She avoided that horrible crime!

Refrain:
Nooo more bakin!
Nooo more bakin!
No more burnin the layers,
Or crashin the ware,
Yes, no more bakin!

:D :D :D

[Mentat7]

Vikki, while you are most welcome to open as many apps as you want while working with ZBrush I don't see any reason to have MS Office working while your are playing in Z. My standard modus operandi is I close all programs and background apps in the system tray. The only thing running are the essentials plus ZBrush. I have 512 meg or ram with 384 meg allocated for ZBrush. I have nearly 70 gig of hard drive space available for scratch disk (out of 120 gig) I try not to make ZBrush compete for system resources....When I need to run something else I start it up, use it, then close it out. If you exceed your memory limits (system memory) you will receive an out of memory error in ZBrush. Depending on how severe the occurence ZBrush may give you an option to continue, save the file, or it may just shut down completely...do not pass go...do not collect $200! My advice is to just give as much as the system over to ZBrush as possible to avoid any major catastrophes. You will encounter larger issues as you increase the document size, add layer, render settings, etc. The better prepared you are to overcome them the better off you will be. That's just my opinion (although I can attest that I rarely have a fatal ZBrush crash). Of course if you can up your memory to 2Gig then the sky's the limit! :)

[Grub]

Nice work Vikki! :tu: :tu: :tu:

[Stonecutter]

On the other hand Lonnie... :D
I have a P2 400, 256 megs, run Spinner for my tunes while I work, and have never had a crash...Go figure... :rolleyes:

And nice one, Vik...I have never baked anything, but I think it does have it's benefits, going by the work I've seen with fiber brush for instance...In my work flow, and style, I just never felt I needed it...
I just keep my layers to a minimum necessary...
;)

[Vikki]

Mentat,

Well, I've been looking but I don't know how to turn Office off from loading at start up. It loads in memory at start up and uses a lot as I mentioned. I don't have any of the office apps open when I'm working with Z with the exception of Outlook which I have to have open for work.

I don't get out of memory errors at all. I get "unexpected errors" both for the document and then Z.

I try to work with only two layers at a time, taking Stonecutters earlier tip about keeping layers to a minimum by finishing and then merging, then creating another layer to work on.

2Gig? I'm looking into it. :D

Stonecutter,

:D Thanks!

According to all the information I've read, in order to get the different lighting effects I want on different objects and layers, it says I have to bake because I don't want some lighting to effect some objects and they have to be on different layers for that to happen so far as I've learned to date.

For the fibre brush, Kathy's method works perfectly without baking. I get the same fine precision with it but I have to re-learn it a little bit to account for missing the pixol information you get from baking.

I rarely crash, if I'm doing something like Zorge, for instance. Same size canvas 1280x960. No extra special textures, materials and material settings, lighting or fog and no special GDI or GSI. He was done on three layers, although the first layer was an import of the background. Not only that he had many many markers so it's kind of confusing what's causing the difference. I think it's the render and lighting along with special textures and materials that may be the problem as Mentat mentions, but I'll keep experimenting. Meantime, Kathy's technique suits my purposes and gives so far the effects I am looking for. I just have to be careful to plan ahead. :D

Grub! Thank you! :D

[Stonecutter]

Planning is the key, Vikki! :D :tu:

[Mentat7]

You a lucky man Mike! ;) I often have ZBrush document sizes in excess of 800 Meg! When I see that happen I know it's time to start "efficiency" cleaning. I shut down other apps. Save my work, tools, etc. Then close ZBrush and reopen it. Seems to keep me from Z-heaven :D

Vikki, are you talking about the Office Task Bar? If so you can right click on the top of the bar and a menu selection will appear allowing you to close the task bar. It will also allow you to disable it from starting up in the future. I do not use the Office Task bar as it is notorious for causing unexpected system failures and crashes at the worst possible moment. This is true on my Win ME machine at home and our Win 2000NT network at work. You can put all those office icons on your Windows Taskbar and get rid of the redundancy. That may be the culprit for your unexpected crashes. You can disable it and if you wish you can re-enable it in the future if you so wish.

[Vikki]

Thanks Mentat! I'll see if I can figure out how to do that. It's not in my task bar but in my start up menu. At any rate I can see I have to get this fixed because any documents over about 6-8 meg crash me. 800 meg! Oh my gosh...I could really make some pictures with that!! I have to find out/fix the problem now!

And here is the completed Z-Gatekeeper...scanning for those z-docs coming his way...

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1027655563bvj.jpg

Edit: Awwww! The jpg really mucked it up! But, I couldn't make it any less compression because I couldn't upload it then. :(

[DeeVee]

Hi Vikki great work!
There is a small program called start up organizer which allows you to select the programs you wish to start. You can go through a list of all the programs starting and just uncheck them and "voila" they do not start until you check their box again.
I hope this is of help to you.
BTW it is produced be MetaProducts.
DeeVee,
Joe

[DLee]

I like the candle sticks and the color is nice to ~s~

[Ron Harris]

very pretty pics....and alot of learning has obviously went on....great job :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:

[Kathy]

Most excellent results!

Nice work, LOVE the flames, and colors, and materials.

:D :tu: :tu: :tu:

[Vikki]

Thanks for the comments. :D

Thanks DeeVee for the tip!

Yup Ron, a ton of learning here. Now I just need to refine it.

Thanks Kathy! And thanks for all your help!

Mentat, I'm just going to start sending all the error reports instead of cancelling that. Takes a few minutes on my slow connection but maybe it'll help whoever reads those things. :D Found a thread in Quicklinks but it relates to Win9X and I'm on XP so I have no idea how to convert that information.